The Official "Who shouln't return?" Thread

[Mr. Brawl and Watch]

As many of you know or heard, some characters are speculated to not return to the fray in SSBB. This might be becuse of low popularity, or just because it is a clone. Whatever the reason is, tell us which characters you think should not return and why. Here's my list.

Ness/Lucas: Ness is bottom teir. He sucks. Nobody knew who he was before SSB came out. Lucas is a clone of Ness.

Yoshi: This joke of a fighter doesn't even have his own game title on GCN. His place is an assist trophy. I mean come on, his Up-special doesn't even help recover him, which goes against the main point of Smash. Nobody that is even remotely decent would try to use him in a tourny, so why waste space on the roster?

Pichu: Do I even need to say anything? Clone, weak, and gives itself damage. Wow. Why was it even put in melee? So that all the girls that play would look any see a cute lil' pichu and further attract more girls to play smash?

Ice Climbers: Same as Ness, who knew about Ice Climbers before you played melee? Nobody. Now I know what you are thinking, "well nobody knew about Fire Emblem before we played melee". Fire Emblem hadn't been released in the US. If it did, it would have been a great sucess, because it is an awsome game series. Also, Ice Climbers are useless once you lose the second one.

Mr Game and Watch: "Did nintendo run out of chracters to the point that they used a stick figure?" That was what I said the first time I saw him. Really now, not only is he unpopular, he isn't that great of a fighter either.

Roy: Clone, and doesn't deserve his own moveset.

Young Link: Clone. Nuff said.

The rest of the clones like Dr. Mario, Falco, Luigi and Ganondorf all deserve their own moveset. Feel free to get pizzed off at my comments, but remember its just my opinion.

 

[Algus Underdunk]

...you're really very bad at this.

 

[Mr. Brawl and Watch]

way to kill my thread. if you think i'm bad at this, then explain.

 

[Algus Underdunk]

Very well. First, you name off two characters who are already back, thus making it moot. Ice Climbers, and Yoshi.

Secondly, your claims that characters are unknown is also moot. I personally was well aware of Ness (having played Earthbound on my SNES) well before SSB64 ever came out. The same goes for Lucas, the Ice Climbers, and Mr.Game and Watch.

Third, you ignore information. Vis-r-vis characters having recent games, I might point out Yoshi's Island 2 for the DS, Yoshi Touch'n'Go, Yoshi Topsy Turvey, Yoshi's Cookie, Yoshi's Safari, Yoshi's Story, Yoshi, and so on. By your logic, Samus Aran shouldn't have been in Super Smash Brothers: Melee, because she didn't have her own game on the N64.

Fourth, Lucas is not a clone of Ness. Some similar moves, but clearly different moves as well. PK Freeze, the Rope Snake, psychic kick-flips, PK Starstorm, etc.

Fifth, again you missed the information. Yoshi's Up-B move does help him recover now. Sakurai pointed this out in Yoshi's update.

Sixth, you're assuming your opinion is that of the world. Mr.Game and Watch is most assuredly not unpopular. Aside from a recent DS game, he appears quite often in memorabelia and Nintendo-swag. A number of artists have painted or sculpted his likeness, and convention attendees have dressed as him, complete with odd movement. ...you... do realize he predates Mario and Donkey Kong, right?

 

[REDFIELD246]

Yoshi and Ice Climbers? They've been confirmed for weeks/months! Your reasons are weak, you clearly know very little about what you're arguing, and it's tough to take your arguments seriously.

 

[smashbot226]

IN BEFORE CLOSE!!!


Yes, this thread is clearly biased and fail, so besides repeating what Algus said...

Ness: He isn't bottom tier. Certainly not top tier, but does this even EFFECT his odds at returning? Also, I never knew he was a vacuum, because you clearly state he sucks.

Yoshi: Algus pretty much covered Yoshi there. And a JOKE OF A FIGHTER?!?

Mewtwo sez hi.

IC: Sure, unpopularity didn't help them... now they are in. You should really check the Smash Dojo.

MGNW: I am a Game n Watch fan, and let me tell you, he does NOT suck in capable hands. Not only does he represent Sakurai's now deceased mentor, but also represents Retro characters. Also, if you follow the icon theory, one more Melee series will be present in Brawl. Let's see, IC is in, so is their symbol, as is Ike from Fire Emblem...

Who does that leave out???

 

[Mr. Brawl and Watch]

Smash should be about fighting with nintendo's characters in an action packed, high speed battle. in their current forms with their current movesets, they dont fit in with the rest of the fighters.

sure, you can argue that game and watch was popular, but that is moot. If he gives some fans a little nostolgia, then he too belongs as an assist trophy.

If ness is such an influential character, then he should be in brawl, but that doesn't mean he can't get upgraded. game and watch has a place among the nintendo allstars, but that doesn't mean that he should be a usable character in the fight. he, among others, adds clutter to the roster, and takes away from the many other options of possible characters. Now that doesn't mean that he should be removed, but he NEEDS an upgrade.

you've gotta at least agree that pichu is a pointless character, right? and young link and roy?

 

[smashbot226]

If we agree on it, then we don't bring it up.

Though I could argue that Dr. Mario is impossible to de-clone, I'm not going to dive into that debate.

And who are you to say what Smash should be about?!? Do you have ANY say in their production?

Smash should be how Sakurai wants it to be! And it's clearly working! Smash doesn't have to be the speedy all out warzones, like in Marvel vs. Capcom 2, or
dead or Alive! It's a great change, and I wouldn't want to massively change it for the world.

And he certainly isn't going to change it for you!

And Mr. Game N Watch was here before Mario was. And since when did their physical forms matter whether or not that they're in? I'd say Melee proved you wrong!

Mr. Game is a highly requested veteran and there's no reason NOT to include him. If Sakurai added MGNW in only ONE installment, then it would be insulting to his mentor. If MGNW is popular enough to be his own PC, then he can be a PC now.

As for your third paragraph, sentence 2...

You just contradicted yourself. You claim that Nintendo's characters should fight it out, and you mention MGNW has a place among them, yet you don't want him in?

And if Ness is clutter, you know what would make it better?

Dr. Claus or Wolf can help you there!

 

[CodeBlack]

sure, you can argue that game and watch was popular, but that is moot. If he gives some fans a little nostolgia, then he too belongs as an assist trophy.

...

Or he could return a a character... Could go either way on that one.

^ Drawing attention to the fact that your statement made absolutely no point whatsoever.

Basically, it's "G&W was popular, but that doesn't matter (contradicting yourself, but there's nothing wrong with changing your mind). He could be an assist trophy." No foundation whatsoever.

Your point (whatever it was) is made, as you say, moot, by the contradiction:

Mr. Game is a highly requested veteran and there's no reason NOT to include him.

Sorry, but it was too easy.

 

[smashbot226]

Well, I suppose this thread is gutted, eh?


This is now the Official Coca Cola 4 Brawl Thread!

 

[Mr. Brawl and Watch]

you didnt read the whole statement.
I said that game and watch was popular to some people, not the vast majority of players, thus he deserves to be at least mentioned in the form of an assist trophy. if sakurai makes him a playable character, then he should make him better. same goes for ness. The whole point is that any character that is going to be playable should be upgraded into a decent fighter. If it is impossible to upgrade them to make them a decent fighter, then they should be removed, or if they are popular, made into an assist trophy.
seriously, find me one champion G&W, ness, ice climbers or yoshi player.
hard aint it?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

you didnt read the whole statement.
I said that game and watch was popular to some people, not the vast majority of players, thus he deserves to be at least mentioned in the form of an assist trophy. if sakurai makes him a playable character, then he should make him better. same goes for ness. The whole point is that any character that is going to be playable should be upgraded into a decent fighter. If it is impossible to upgrade them to make them a decent fighter, then they should be removed, or if they are popular, made into an assist trophy.
seriously, find me one champion G&W, ness, ice climbers or yoshi player.
hard aint it?

Your ideal version of smash is the most boring thing I've ever heard

 

[jas3]

ice climbers are awesome, have u ever seen chu dat, or even any decent ice climbers player?

 

[Mr. Brawl and Watch]

Your ideal version of smash is the most boring thing I've ever heard

how so? i mean smash isn't just one big nostolgia fest. it IS a fighting game, right.
dont get me wrong, the nostolgia should be still in the game, but no so much. just keep it to the side, i.e. stickers, AT's, items, bosses, events, etc. the main part of the game, which is the vs. mode, should be exhilerating action.

 

[smashbot226]

Actually, I bet there are plenty of users of those characters.

You just need to look harder...

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

how so? i mean smash isn't just one big nostolgia fest. it IS a fighting game, right.
dont get me wrong, the nostolgia should be still in the game, but no so much. just keep it to the side, i.e. stickers, AT's, items, bosses, events, etc. the main part of the game, which is the vs. mode, should be exhilerating action.

Because the new stuff mostly sucks compared to the old school, and Smash is suppose to represent ALL of Nintendo's history, not JUST the new school.

How would the New stuff represent the old in any way?

...Besides, you also only want over-hyped **** characters...

I liked the underrated good ones that people like without it being showed down their throats...

 

[Mr. Brawl and Watch]

Actually, I bet there are plenty of users of those characters.

You just need to look harder...

i didnt say users, i said champions. it's hard to be a champion while you're using a below average char.

 

[IsmaR]

Ness/Lucas: Ness is bottom teir. He sucks. Nobody knew who he was before SSB came out. Lucas is a clone of Ness.

That is your opinion, and you didn't know about them before smash bros. That's not a reason to assume no one else did.

Yoshi: This joke of a fighter doesn't even have his own game title on GCN. His place is an assist trophy. I mean come on, his Up-special doesn't even help recover him, which goes against the main point of Smash. Nobody that is even remotely decent would try to use him in a tourny, so why waste space on the roster?
Yoshi doesn't need a GCN title, and who does to be in smash bros? He's not a joke, and so what if his Up special didn't help recover. It does now, plus the fact that Yoshi has tremendous jumping capabilities. And he is certainly not a waste of a space. And Yoshi is very good when used by a pro.

Pichu: Do I even need to say anything? Clone, weak, and gives itself damage. Wow. Why was it even put in melee? So that all the girls that play would look any see a cute lil' pichu and further attract more girls to play smash?
I agreed with you, til you made that sexist statement. Smash bros is about letting people fight with their favorite people, and so what if it's just a girl wanting to be a cute character!

Ice Climbers: Same as Ness, who knew about Ice Climbers before you played melee? Nobody. Now I know what you are thinking, "well nobody knew about Fire Emblem before we played melee". Fire Emblem hadn't been released in the US. If it did, it would have been a great sucess, because it is an awsome game series. Also, Ice Climbers are useless once you lose the second one.
Lots of people did, I'm suspecting you just play like one Super Mario game, and call yourself all knowing. And Fire Emblem has nothing to do with this argument. Finally, maybe you and some people are bad with only one IC, but you once again assume that means everybody.

Mr Game and Watch: "Did nintendo run out of chracters to the point that they used a stick figure?" That was what I said the first time I saw him. Really now, not only is he unpopular, he isn't that great of a fighter either.
G&W was creative as a character, not because Nintendo ran out of ideas. And he has a popular fanbase in those that ACTUALLY PLATED THE G&W. Once again, not everyone sucks with this character.

Roy: Clone, and doesn't deserve his own moveset.
Jus because he's a clone means he doesn't deserve a move set?

Young Link: Clone. Nuff said.
We don't need another Link, but he is not being excluded because of his clone aspects.

The rest of the clones like Dr. Mario, Falco, Luigi and Ganondorf all deserve their own moveset. Feel free to get pizzed off at my comments, but remember its just my opinion.
How does Doc deserve a move set after everything you just said? You are a hypocrite.

I'm not saying every character should return, but your arguing is flawed. And what is wrong with girls playing Smash Bros?

 

[smashbot226]

Well, let's take a bet...

Youko Punch or Bowser Fsmash?

 

[IsmaR]

I'm saying Boozer FSmash

 

[Mr. Brawl and Watch]

Well, let's take a bet...

Youko Punch or Bowser Fsmash?

bowser fsmash

 

[True Fool]

I'm guessing Youko Punch.

Anyways, your thoughts on the clones are terrible. If you're going to make awful biased posts at least defend the trash you want in the game besides just ragging on the stuff you don't like.

What the hell earns Dr.Mario a new moveset? That was one of the most obnoxious, boring puzzle games I ever played. And in Smash he's just Mario in a coat throwing even more obnoxious projectiles, wow, how badass is that? And yet to you he's somehow above Young Link, Roy and Ness, who all should be crushed for being clones. Defend him, convince me that he should stay.

 

[Mr. Brawl and Watch]

I'm not saying every character should return, but your arguing is flawed. And what is wrong with girls playing Smash Bros?

you're right about it being a sexist statement. sorry about that.

 

[IsmaR]

Yoshi: Algus pretty much covered Yoshi there. And a JOKE OF A FIGHTER?!?

Mewtwo sez hi.

What are you saying you bas****?

And thank you Mr. Brawl and Watch.

 

[Mr. Brawl and Watch]

I'm guessing Youko Punch.

Anyways, your thoughts on the clones are terrible. If you're going to make awful biased posts at least defend the trash you want in the game besides just ragging on the stuff you don't like.

What the hell earns Dr.Mario a new moveset? That was one of the most obnoxious, boring puzzle games I ever played. And in Smash he's just Mario in a coat throwing even more obnoxious projectiles, wow, how badass is that? And yet to you he's somehow above Young Link, Roy and Ness, who all should be crushed for being clones. Defend him, convince me that he should stay.

just look at his nair! jk. the doc should stay, but as an alternate costume for mario. if sakurai would somehow make it so that their stats change when they change costumes, that would add much more dempth to the game. example: link and dark link. mario and doc, peach and daisy

 

[smashbot226]

Hehehehehehehehehe!!!

I'm guessing SOMEONE likes Mewtwo in Brawl!

Face it, he was...


Well, he was about as challenging as a brain dead pig...

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Hehehehehehehehehe!!!

I'm guessing SOMEONE likes Mewtwo in Brawl!

Face it, he was...


Well, he was about as challenging as a brain dead pig...

Mewtwo was mistakingly nerfed for balance because they thought he was too powerful before release...

He was nowhere near a joke character

 

[True Fool]

just look at his nair! jk. the doc should stay, but as an alternate costume for mario. if sakurai would somehow make it so that their stats change when they change costumes, that would add much more dempth to the game. example: link and dark link. mario and doc, peach and daisy

Alternate costume/stat alterations is a bit more reasonable. Not my first choice, but it's not so far off that I can't just take it as an opinion.

 

[SmashBro99]

Young Link / Pichu - Obviously clones of Link / Pikachu, they don't need to come back.

Marth / Roy - I hate when people say Ike has replaced Marth, with totally different moves, Marth SHOULD return, Roy should not, as he was a clone of Marth.

Captain Falcon - ...He just needs to return, if I have to play this game never hearing FALCON-PUNCH it will be pretty weird... There is no reason not to include him, Ganondorf was a clone of him and he can easily have his own new Twilight Princess-ish moveset, sword and all.

Ganondorf - See Captain Falcon.

Falco - Fox clone, although I think he is a great character he will probably be replaced with Wolf/Krystal.

Game & Watch - Another one who has no reason to be left out, he has his own unique moves he really should return.

Mewtwo - See Game & Watch.

Shiek - See Mewtwo/Game & Watch.

Ness - Lucas has moves VERY similar to Ness from what I have seen, but they aren't exactly the same, he should return.

Luigi - See Ness, apply to Mario.

Dr. Mario - Clone of Mario, won't return unless they decide to give Mario a costume, and let him throw pills? I really don't see him being in Brawl.


What I would like them to do is toy around with the clones, so they have some of the same moves, but only a few, so they can include almost every character, so they can please everyone.

 

[smashbot226]

Whoops, miscommunication.

I meant that he was a joke OF a fighter, not A joke fighter.

My bad...

 

[Mr. Brawl and Watch]

the ultimate character to be added: isaac from goldensun.
final smash: judgement summon

 

[True Fool]

Catastrophe is a cooler summon >_>

 

[SmashBro99]

I kinda liked Judgement :D

 

[Mr. Brawl and Watch]

Catastrophe is a cooler summon >_>

yeah it is cooler, but judgement is signature of isaac because it requires 4 earth djinn, and isaac is and earth adept.

 

[Mr. Brawl and Watch]

isaac would use djinn attacks, psynergy attacks, and sword attacks. now if that aint original, i dont know what is

 

[True Fool]

Catastrophe would make a pretty badass AT. Judgment works as his FS. But Catastrophe must be one of the greatest ATs of all time!

 

[billythegoat]

Marth and Roy should not return. They no longer reprsent the series. Shiek should also curl-up and die since it doesn't make alot of sense to have TP Zelda turn into OoT Shiek. Jiggs is gone. Her most favord costume (the head band) was given to pikachu, Peaches final smash puts people to sleep so what would Jiggs be, and we already have WAY to many chara with multi jumps. Ness is basically deconfirmed. Pichu was a HORRIBLE character and should not return. The rest can stay.

 

[Mr. Brawl and Watch]

I have a feeling sakurai and nintendo has forgotten that golden sun existed.

 

[Mr. Brawl and Watch]

Marth and Roy should not return. They no longer reprsent the series. Shiek should also curl-up and die since it doesn't make alot of sense to have TP Zelda turn into OoT Shiek. Jiggs is gone. Her most favord costume (the head band) was given to pikachu, Peaches final smash puts people to sleep so what would Jiggs be, and we already have WAY to many chara with multi jumps. Ness is basically deconfirmed. Pichu was a HORRIBLE character and should not return. The rest can stay.

they dont have to tranform zelda to make sheik. her down B could be sumthin els, like pulling apples from the ground ...like... uh...

 

[billythegoat]

find me one champion G&W, ness, ice climbers or yoshi player.
Yoshi-Fumi
Ice Climbers-Chu Dat
G&W-?56k