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The Official Snake Video Critique Thread!

RvlvRBobcat

Smash Apprentice
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Jun 29, 2012
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Oh...no. I am terrible at the MU with Yoshi. My best bet is Bowser considering he's better punisher, survives longer and is much better at killing. I'm still pretty bad at it, but it's the best I have at the moment.

Anyway, here's a WFs set my friend told me post:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcpGxaqpmzM&feature=player_detailpage#t=859s

He only used Snake on the last Game.
Once again, i'm taking notes from this guy! He gets in olimar's face and doesn't let him pressure back. When he does, snake responds well to it and keeps his cool. I do feel a concern however, with the snake player's DI was a little off imo. Against olimar, always di upwards when getting thrown for forward and back throws have very quick executions. Olimr's up throw has start up and if done, it should give you enough time to DI left or right.
 

RvlvRBobcat

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0:07 - Okay. trying to get underneath someone with a Dacus is good, but you need to do it much earlier than what was done here. Or they need to be much higher in the air than mentioned.
0:11 - Okay. Even though you are at the ledge, you are in a pretty good spot. Marth is stuck on the platform. You should have moved up a bit, but a bit closer out of range of being hit if Marth tried falling off the platform with an aerial. Had you done that, you could have tried timing a dash attack to hit his landing lag. Instead, you Dacus'd way too early
0:16 - Nothing you could have done there. The sword pushed you off and you got hit by the explosion.
0:22 - I am going to take a guess and say you made a few technical mistakes because I have no idea what you were doing here. Probably meant to shield drop the grenade and Utilt. Anyway, you got a punish off it in the end.
0:36 - Another technical mistake because I have no idea why you were trying to pull a grenade there.
0:44 - Should have just continued through with the full Ftilt instead of stopping. Otherwise, decent set-up for edge guarding. Just have to stay that roll's distance away to cover all of marth's attempts to get back on the stage.
0:47 - You got Marth directly after pulling a grenade, you had enough time to dthrow Marth and run forward to avoid the grenade. There is enough time to dthrow -> dash -> shield before the character's get-up attack comes out.
0:55 - You shouldn't have bthrown Marth. You get so much more guaranteed attempts at damage through Dthrow. You should always Dthrow unless you are trying to kill someone with Bthrow/Fthrow on messed up DI at very high percents.
0:56 - Charging an Fsmash in this situation is one of the worst options to pick. Again, you tried charging an Fsmash after getting away from the stage. You should really only be charging a smash attack in situations where your opponent has only a couple options to pick or you are going for a hard read because of some of there earlier habits. Otherwise, there are always better things to do than charging an Fsmash as Snake.
1:03 - After you shielded the fsmash, dropping shield and attacking marth with a dash attack would have hit.
1:42 - Again, do not dacus when Marth is that low to the ground as an approach. Its better to just rush forward just out of his range, then you could have tried going for a dacus/dash attack his landing. Or just shielded an incoming aerial or just space an Ftilt on his landing.
1:54 - Do not attempt to attack a person on the ledge without first confirming that they have already started doing something. You just crawled up to Marth on the ledge and attacked. He saw you doing that and attacked you. Get a bit closer to bait an action, but get out of the way immediately, then counter attack.
1:57 - Again, Dthrow always leads into the best follow-ups more than anything else Snake can do.
2:01 - Not sure why you tried doing an Usmash just in front of Marth like that since the platform was in the way and evertyhing. Probably another technical mistake doing an Utilt.
2:21 - You can just crouch and avoid the grenades on those platforms.
2:33 - NOt sure why you choose to use the Nikita missle there. Another technical mistake?
2:38 - That would have been the perfect spot to Dthrow Marth. If you rushed forward after the dthrow, you would have caught any attempts at rolling forward and done an Utilt. If marth stood up or rolled to the ledge you could have Utilted. The only problem potentially would have been timing the get-up attack.
2:42 - Okay, what you just did there with the C4 should be avoided since you completely gave away your good spot. Drop the C4 just in front of the ledge with a full hop and not burn up your 2nd jump in the process.
 

Ken Neth

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I only had time to watch the first match, but here's a few things.

He was getting way too aggro, and not in a good way. A few times he ran all the way across the stage into a running attack that you could see coming a mile away. He got really lucky winning that first match, the oilmar had it easy but he went into panic mode and just went for kill moves or things that got him nowhere. It seemed that snake was literally just throwing out any attack hoping it would hit near the end.

Also, there is no point in going for risky things like down air when olimar is at low percents. There was a time or two where he went for it where absolutely nothing would come from it if it hit, he missed, and then got punished for it. One of the times snake was at really low percents and the olimar could have racked up 50~ on him had he followed up correctly.

Against olimar you need to have really good spacing too. It seemed like he was either too far away to put any real pressure on olimar and had to deal with getting out camped, or he was too close and getting punished for throwing out random attacks. Snake does well in between the two, close enough so dropped nades will add pressure and you are within the outer limits of ftilt and utilt range. At this space, you can see olimar's attacks coming often with enough time to react, it will limit olimar's camp game/defensive wall, and you can force him to either retreat/get grabbed/hit off stage.

He has a good snake though, don't get me wrong. Just pointing out some things he could work on.
 
D

Deleted member 189823

Guest
I only had time to watch the first match, but here's a few things.

He was getting way too aggro, and not in a good way. A few times he ran all the way across the stage into a running attack that you could see coming a mile away. He got really lucky winning that first match, the oilmar had it easy but he went into panic mode and just went for kill moves or things that got him nowhere. It seemed that snake was literally just throwing out any attack hoping it would hit near the end.

Also, there is no point in going for risky things like down air when olimar is at low percents. There was a time or two where he went for it where absolutely nothing would come from it if it hit, he missed, and then got punished for it. One of the times snake was at really low percents and the olimar could have racked up 50~ on him had he followed up correctly.

Against olimar you need to have really good spacing too. It seemed like he was either too far away to put any real pressure on olimar and had to deal with getting out camped, or he was too close and getting punished for throwing out random attacks. Snake does well in between the two, close enough so dropped nades will add pressure and you are within the outer limits of ftilt and utilt range. At this space, you can see olimar's attacks coming often with enough time to react, it will limit olimar's camp game/defensive wall, and you can force him to either retreat/get grabbed/hit off stage.

He has a good snake though, don't get me wrong. Just pointing out some things he could work on.
*very late response*
Thank you for the critique, sir.
The topic just got bumped, and I have forgotten about it completely...I will make sure he sees the critique.
 

Ralph Cecil

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I'll try to get to them when I can. I honestly can't say i'll be able to tell you a whole lot about what to do against Sheik though. I'll try and point out general things if I see them though. ;o
 

Shadow the Past

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Not a Snake player but I practice with ^Ralph all the time so I'll give what tips I can on the MK MU.

You want to avoid being on the platform as much as you can. If MK gets underneath you, you're going to get juggled very easily. Early on there are a number of points where you are on a platform, trying to punish MK while he's in the air, by using moves like jab or grab. In these situations, it's better to just get away, get on the ground, and reset to neutral, rather than try and throw out a hitbox.

0:35 He could've killed you here if he Up-B'd, but instead he down-aired. After your grenade throw, it probably would've been better for you to recover straight up instead of towards the stage. Going straight up puts you in a position where MK can't reach you (and thus can't gimp you), while recovering towards the stage puts you in a very gimpable position. Once you've recovered straight up, he has to try and cover your landing, which could either be on the stage or on the ledge, so he has to cover those options.

At 0:37 You should not have B-reversed when you did (I assume that's what you were going for, since you side-b'd instead). I think you were trying to B-reverse to get behind him so he couldn't glide attack you. A better option would've been to either back-air (which would either clash with Glide Attack or hit him) or B-reverse a lot sooner.

0:47 Don't spotdodge when you're techchasing, it leaves you more vulnerable than just standing there doing nothing. The only thing he can hit you with is getup attack, which you can shield. All of his other options are rolls or getting straight up, which obviously can't hit you.

1:03 Not sure if this was a misinput or not, but if it's not, don't try and place a d-smash while MK is still on stage lol.

1:07 After you realised that you couldn't reach the ledge, you up-b'd but panicked and airdodged. In this situation, your only option is literally ride the Cyper all the way on-stage and hope MK doesn't gimp you. MK's best option would've been to grab -> grab release you, but it sounded like he tried to d-tilt or something, so just be wary of MK grabbing you out of Up-b. If you were at lower percents, C4 would've been a good option (immediately cancel the up-b and C4).

1:14 Your spotdodging is impeding your punish game. If you had simply shielded that f-tilt, you could've easily punished with your own F-tilt for a free ~20%, but because of your spotdodge, he had enough time to shield.

1:17 As soon as you saw MK dashing towards you, you should've been preparing to punish the fact that he was dashing. An f-tilt would've been a very good option, or a pivot grab would've been a mixup (which would beat both MK's dash grab and dash attack, his only options while dashing). Instead, you shielded out of fear, which the MK read, so you got grabbed.

1:59 U-air would've been a better option after being hit by that nade. Not sure if you thought you were facing the other direction, but even so, you didn't have enough height to finish the nair (unless you also tried to double jump).

3:06 You should've been dead here, but the MK decided to F-tilt instead of grab for some reason. This is another situation where recovering straight up and being ready to potentially C4 is a good option.

4:25 Finally he grabbed you lol

5:11 You should not have jumped here, you had absolutely no reason to jump. MK got a free up-air and this pretty much led to you losing the stock.

General tips:
Stop forward airing, lol. I know you got like 1-2 kills off of it and a few other hits too, but it's seriously such an unsafe move. I mean if it works it works, but don't try and do it and expect it to hit every time.

Do more stuff with nades. Pretty much the entire match all I really saw you do with nades was either pluck a nade and roll away, or pluck a nade, shield drop it, pick it up, walk a little bit and then throw it forward. MK visibly had no pressure from nades both games, which gives him the freedom to do whatever he wants. Nades force MK to not mash the B button/C stick so they don't blow them up, but if you leave them out/throw them predictably, it's not pressuring him at all. You've gotta mix it up, do some crazy stuff with your nades. Make the MK go "Wait, did he pluck this nade first, or second? Is it about to blow up in my face? Should I try and throw it, or shield just to be safe?" Cook your nades, try pulling out a nade, shield dropping it, plucking a second nade, throw it with the B-throw (don't know the term for it, AKA don't shield drop it) then throw the first nade. The MK will get distracted by the second nade, not realise the first one is about to blow up, and get hit by it.

That's about all I can think of.
 

Mr3ballRyRyDaddy

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@ Shadow the Past Shadow the Past thanks a bunch for the input. That was really my first MK mu ever (being my first tourney and having no mk friends). I will be playing in another tourney soon enough and try to showcase some of your tips (and repost for critiques of course ;P). This was about a month in a half of playing smash. It's been about 3 now and I am already noticing I am improving quickly. Anyway thanks again,
Clown
 

Ken Neth

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I'll do a quick critique of your wario match since I'm assuming that's the one where you can learn the most. Only have like 10 minutes, so it won't be super in depth
 
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Ken Neth

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K, so there were a couple times you tried to c4 wario as you are falling. His air mobility/air dodge are too strong for that to ever really work. He'll just avoid it and punish you in the lag. Feel free to use it as b-reversal, just don't blow it up if he's close enough to punish.

That last kill he got on you was sick with that footstool.

Overall, it feels like you got a bit overwhelmed and went into panic mode. As soon as you got down at all, you lost sight of your entire defensive game. It's really, really hard to be aggressive against a wario. He has better options, and much harder punishes.

Maybe it's just due to the reason above, but I think you might want to reconsider your counterpick. While PS1 is a good stage for snake, it seemed like you weren't very comfortable with the stage. It's nothing like the other basic neutrals, so if you're not extremely comfortable with it and know how to play on all the tramsformations, you're going to lose to a player that is. Not to mention, that's a really good stage for wario to take snake to. He's much more mobile and can take advantage of the transformations better than snake. Not to mention, if he ever goes for a timeout, you're not going to be able to touch him. While technically a "good snake stage," that doesn't mean it's always a good pick, either due to player comfort or matchup.

Another thing, whenever he was on the ground near your shield you went to spot-dodge city. Even if his back was turned to you, you were spot dodging multiple times in a row. As well as rolling back or behind him. The worst that can happen if you just sit in your shield is you get bit or grabbed, and then you can reset it back to neutral usually. I understand the whole fear factor of playing against one of the best players and whatnot, so I'm assuming it's not always that bad, but you see what I mean.

Just in general, not to you specifically, as far as mindsets go, people have a weird mindset going against players they assume are better than them. People think that because they're better, they can't go for things they normally do, they lose control of their defensive game and go into panic mode, and they're not confident in what they're doing so they hesitate ever so slightly which is the difference between getting a punish and them powershielding and punishing you. People need to realize that the top players are not untouchable. They have habits and patterns and weaknesses too. Have confidence in yourself, that's the only way you'll ever have the chance. Top players beat people so easily because of this I feel. They're already a bit better, but they get in people's heads and it's GGs before the games even start. I've seen this legit work many times, I was talking to our local ICs player before he went up against X, one of the best sonics in the nation. He had already gotten bodied in winners by him and had never beaten him before. His mindset was so scared that there was no way he was going to win. I talked to him about all this, gave him a few tips, got him pumped up and confident, and then he went in and 2 stocked him two matches in a row. Now X is afraid of him. Last tourney he 3 stocked X and it was the first time I've ever seen X switch off sonic out of desperation. tl;dr It's possible to beat top players, just believe in yourself and it will come in time. /end rant
 
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Ralph Cecil

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I honestly use the fact that I know top players are good in my favor lmao. Whenever it comes down to clutch situations I know to give them enough credit to assume they know what I want to do and I just think a step ahead about how to counter what counters my stuff.

EDIT:I should record something soon. D: I need to fix a lot of bad habits that have come up, but I usually need someone else to point them out even if I know what they are. >_<
 
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Masonomace

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Yo Snake Boards might be my first time posting here (not sure about that I might of once or twice) otherwise it's been a while. Anyways I come bearing a question with a video.

What is this???? @0:12? Watch 0:11 - 0:13 for the clip
Note: I'm not sure if all characters can do this but just snake alone doing it is interesting it's like Snake has Melee mechanics.
Edit: Sorry if the quality isn't the best with unnecessary BG noises
2nd Edit: I'm really sorry if this was supposed to go into the Q&A thread. I am asking a question but I didn't know whether to choose to put this in the Video Thread for the video reference or Q&A :\.

 
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Ken Neth

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Landing on a slant with an arial will make you slide down the slant. It kind of looks like you go up a slant, but that's probably just a weird glitchy application of it because PS's ledge is screwed up hard right there.
 

Masonomace

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Cool thanks Ken! I kinda figured it was a PS1 glitch but I was definitely unsure cus Snake B-air sleepingbag is weird sometimes. Thanks again man. I'll have another video up for this thread to see involving snake and SV. Stay tuned~

Edit: It's finally here Snake thread~ What's happening here?
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I actually have a match for critique. Tell me what you guys think I need Improvement:
 
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Ken Neth

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No problem man.

As for the floating nair, it has to do with the moving platform. The moving platform gives some weird properties to different aerials. I remember clear back in like 2008 people found this, kinda freaked out because they were able to get things like a floating dair, but then it was pretty much impossible to do on purpose and wasn't that useful even when they could get it. Basically the platform is so close to being under you and since it keeps moving closer to you it stops you from falling further but it's not far enough under for you to actually land on it if I remember their explanation correctly.

I'll critique your vid later if I get the time, though wifi isn't usually a very good indicator of a lot of things given the lag.
 

Masonomace

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Awesome Ken you da man to the max. So basically if I'm doing my said aerial moving along going downward with same DI the moving platform is, they'll 'link" together causing this float on platform's end? right on I seem to get it now. Seems effective for heavy characters like snake or Is this another PS1 scenario where any character could do floating aerials...
 
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