The Official "Should/Will Metaknight be banned?" Thread (LISTEN TO THE SBR PODCAST!)

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

then those boards are terrrible. If you actually u know.. used snake instead of Sonic and seen the pro players and their matchups, you would SEE that its even and also at Snakes advantage vs MK unless the MK can pull off a gimp. (this is ALOT harder if the snake is GOOD)

The fox-falco counter is correct, ONLY at top level play where they can waveshine perfectly.

Shiek iceclimbers is even actually, or slight advantage like m2k said.

Marth has no bad matches at top level play-> like m2k and Ken. They combo shiek just as easily as shiek can combo them. Only scrub marths get taken out by shieks that easily.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SojFL13ehCM

thank you come again

 

[The Real Inferno]

For those asking about the Snake Star Rating system on the Snake Boards, it just represents how difficult the match is against that character, not whether or not the character has an advantage.

 

[Dark Sonic]

^^So I'd assume 5 stars means one of his hardest matchups?

 

[complexity1234]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SojFL13ehCM

thank you come again

yea because 1 bad match means he got character countered LOL!
Or maybe he got outplayed.
Did you also notice its a 2 stock match -> crew battle?

Or did you just skip to the ending?

^^So I'd assume 5 stars means one of his hardest matchups?

5 star hard doesn't mean Disadvantage. It just means a hard fight compared to a... sonic for example.

 

[The Real Inferno]

^^So I'd assume 5 stars means one of his hardest matchups?

you would be correct.

As for Marth/Sheik, M2K has gone on record as saying Sheik is the best character in Melee still, which was a big point of discussion in the Melee tier list topic on the Melee boards, but that's really neither here nor there.

 

[VulgarHandGestures]

yea because 1 bad match means he got character countered LOL!
Or maybe he got outplayed.
Did you also notice its a 2 stock match -> crew battle?

"Only scrub marths get taken out by shieks that easily."
- complexity 1234

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

yea because 1 bad match means he got character countered LOL!
Or maybe he got outplayed.
Did you also notice its a 2 stock match -> crew battle?

Or just skip to the ending?

sheik could have had one life and still have won.

the point is you said M2K doesn't get beat by sheiks so easily... and it looks like a sheik took away two of his lives before he took one of theirs.

not saying sheik's a hard counter by any stretch of the imagination... but it is NOT marth's best matchup.

"Only scrub marths get taken out by shieks that easily."

thank you... I really DO hate it when people can't just admit they were wrong <_<

 

[Dark Sonic]

yea because 1 bad match means he got character countered LOL!
Or maybe he got outplayed.
Did you also notice its a 2 stock match -> crew battle?

Or just skip to the ending?

Did you read the part where I said slight advantage?
Bad matchup=/=counter. Nobody ever claimed that Shiek was a Marth counter, we said that Shiek has an advantage over Marth.

Also note that FD is a bad place to fight Shiek with Marth. He'd much rather have a platform stage. The stage compounded on Shiek's slight advantage to make it...a slightly bigger advantage. But M2K was likely having a bad match anyway so...whatever.

 

[choknater]

But M2K was likely having a bad match anyway so...whatever.

Argumentum ad Johns

 

[Dark Sonic]

^^In case you didn't notice, I was refuting the video because it was only one match and is not definitive proof that Shiek "counters" Marth. Sure I could've just gone along with it since it would've helped my argument that Shiek has an advantage, but someone else would've picked at it anyway, and I don't want to be discredited because of something like that.

That, and M2K has beat Drephen before, and beat Shiek's better than Drephen before, because he's just a better player.

But the video does still refute the idea that only scrub Marths have problems with Shiek.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

but the video does still refute the idea that only scrub Marths have problems with Shiek.

which was my only reason for posting it ^_^

 

[1048576]

So what's he gonna do, post 30 videos, cause that's how many you need for your results to be statistically significant. Sheik has an advantage over Marth. It should be obvious, and you can find it spelled out in many places on these boards.

 

[Dark Sonic]

^^Yeah, I agree. I just have a feeling that some guy is going to come in and say "one match doesn't prove anything," and then it suddenly looks, like my statement is wrong and that disproving this one video somehow proves that Shiek vs Marth is even.

 

[Gea]

Isn't it obvious to anyone who was decent at melee? Sheik was also ridiculously easy to pick up too.

 

[choknater]

This thread is now about Super Smash Brothers Melee.

 

[Bowser King]

This thread is now about Super Smash Brothers Melee.

It's been like that for the last 2 pages .

-Bowser King

 

[Dark Sonic]

^^Hell yeah! Now lets talk about how Marth was bad on pretty much every counterpick stage, and how acid combos on brinstar were too good! And how mute city vs Shiek=easiest edgeguarding ever (it wasn't that hard in the first place, but ****!)

Or we can try to figure out what stages MK is bad on. Or if a stage counterpick is enough to turn on of his matchups for slightly in his favor to slightly in their favor.

 

[da K.I.D.]

complexity needs to stop being a douche

and for the record, bagging on somebodys character choice really isnt helping your case, i hope you know that...

 

[complexity1234]

Not even maining snake or MK and having matchup the matchup experience, and then going and saying MK has advantage over Snake is kind of funny though. And using the boards as proof for info............... which are not even written by top players.

MK is the Shiek of Brawl, yet shiek wasnt banned. Everyone yelling OP ! Easy to use ! Destroying lower characters just as badly. Same thing happened before, nothing new... People found out how to go even with her.

You cant expect 1 of those lower characters to stand up to a shiek. Same with sonic and MK.... Its a given..

 

[Master Raven]

I miss Roy.

 

[| Big D |]

If I may...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-Oe03CDu7k&feature=related
Same characters, same players, different outcome.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Not even maining snake or MK and having matchup the matchup experience, and then going and saying MK has advantage over Snake is kind of funny though. And using the boards as proof for info............... which are not even written by top players.

MK is the Shiek of melee, yet shiek wasnt banned. Everyone yelling OP ! Easy to use ! Destroying lower characters just as badly. Same thing happened before, nothing new... People found out how to go even with her.

You cant expect 1 of those lower characters to stand up to a shiek. Same with sonic and MK.... Its a given..

except in melee:

Sheik; Marth; Fox; Falco

All were the same level

Brawl:
MK.......

that's it.

 

[complexity1234]

More characters can go even with him than you think. And the game has HARDLY been out compared to melee. I'll leave it there.

 

[da K.I.D.]

complexity...
uhhh... you keep bagging on sonic saying that someone of his level cant be expect to fight MK,

why dont you go exactly ONE spot above sonic on the tier list and tell me what you find...

 

[The Real Inferno]

^^Hell yeah! Now lets talk about how Marth was bad on pretty much every counterpick stage, and how acid combos on brinstar were too good! And how mute city vs Shiek=easiest edgeguarding ever (it wasn't that hard in the first place, but ****!)

Or we can try to figure out what stages MK is bad on. Or if a stage counterpick is enough to turn on of his matchups for slightly in his favor to slightly in their favor.

lol Yoshi's Island Pipes is Ganondorf's only hope for defeating Meta if that counts for anything.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

You can't expect a mediocre character like Sonic to do anything vs MK, even mid tier can't. But Melee is the same. Even mid tier characters get destroyed by teh tops

 

[complexity1234]

complexity...
uhhh... you keep bagging on sonic saying that someone of his level cant be expect to fight MK,

why dont you go exactly ONE spot above sonic on the tier list and tell me what you find...

More characters can go even with him than you think.

Thats why I mentioned that part.

Just to clarify, when i said level i didnt mean TIER LIST exactly. I meant overall character attributes, priority, chaingrabs, etc.
Yoshis attributes in the matchup gives MK and Wario a run for their money. Sonic's and Captain falcon's dont...

You can't expect a mediocre character like Sonic to do anything vs MK, even mid tier can't. But Melee is the same. Even mid tier characters get destroyed by teh tops

yep

 

[CR4SH]

Not even maining snake or MK and having matchup the matchup experience, and then going and saying MK has advantage over Snake is kind of funny though. And using the boards as proof for info............... which are not even written by top players.

MK is the Shiek of Brawl, yet shiek wasnt banned. Everyone yelling OP ! Easy to use ! Destroying lower characters just as badly. Same thing happened before, nothing new... People found out how to go even with her.

You cant expect 1 of those lower characters to stand up to a shiek. Same with sonic and MK.... Its a given..

Quoted for Hilarity. Because the people actually writing the OP in the character discussion board aren't m2k or azen discredits them completely. And obviously it's completely their opinion, with no input from the best players, or say, the entire ****ing snake and MK community.

Also, bagging someone because they main someone other than the top tier is just about as hilarious. Not to mention the fact that it makes you look like a bigger douchebag than you already do. Wow. Go try and main sonic, seriously. Now STFU.

 

[Dark Sonic]

You can't expect a mediocre character like Sonic to do anything vs MK, even mid tier can't. But Melee is the same. Even mid tier characters get destroyed by teh tops

Link vs Marth was not that bad. Gannondorf vs Marth was even. I really wouldn't say that any of the mid tiers got destroyed by melee's tops.

And I second Marth for that specific purpose. Douchebag.

More characters can go even with him than you think. And the game has HARDLY been out compared to melee. I'll leave it there.

Name them.
And by even, I mean 50:50. Not 55:45, not 60:40. I litterally mean 50:50

 

[complexity1234]

Because the people actually writing the OP in the character discussion board aren't m2k or azen discredits them completely.

I never said discredits, but if you would rather take their INFO as true compared to top players then go ahead .

Name them.

If I named every single one then your gonna ask why, and naming every single reason is like ughh...And it also comes down to opinion. Hopefully u will find out..

Plus Melee took Years for all this info to be found out. It will be the same for Brawl.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Link vs Marth was not that bad. Gannondorf vs Marth was even. I really wouldn't say that any of the mid tiers got destroyed by melee's tops.

I didn't say every top tier character destroyed every mid tier character.
In brawl it's the same like Mario defeating ROB or Olimar having the advantage over Dedede. However, overall top tiers still destroy low tier. In Melee and in brawl

 

[Dojo]

So... what exactly have we accomplished so far?

 

[S.B.Soldier]

lol... thats no good this is a brawl thread..

 

[~ Gheb ~]

So... what exactly have we accomplished so far?

323 pages of spam...not too bad

 

[complexity1234]

MK QQ'ing

10QQ

 

[Dark Sonic]

If you would rather take their INFO as true compared to top players then go ahead .

You mean trust info given by the top players after debating with top players on the other side? Yes, yes I will take that info over your opinion of their matches.

If I named every single one then your gonna ask why, and naming every single reason is like ughh...And it also comes down to opinion. Hopefully u will find out..

Of course I'm going to ask why, since every character board disagrees with you! The burden of proof is on you, not me.

Plus Melee took Years for all this info to be found out. It will be the same for Brawl.

I know, I was there.

I didn't say every top tier character destroyed every mid tier character.

Even mid tier characters get destroyed by teh tops

I just gave examples that show that mid tiers did not get destroyed by "teh tops." Low tiers yes, but not mid tiers.

In brawl it's the same like Mario defeating ROB or Olimar having the advantage over Dedede. However, overall top tiers still destroy low tier. In Melee and in brawl

And this matters because...
You think that I have some dilusional notion that Sonic does well against top tiers? You think that because I main Sonic that I somehow think he's good? No! Sonic sucks!

 

[complexity1234]

So the problem isnt MK. Its using sonic.. Lol..

 

[Dark Sonic]

So the problem isnt MK. Its sonic.. Lol..

My main has nothing to do with this. I'm not talking about the Sonic vs MK matchup. I'm talking about how nobody can seem to come up with a 50:50 matchup for MK that is you know...agreed upon. No, random n00bs don't have to agree with it, but I want to see some top level players back up these "even" matchups. Or at least give reasoning to why it's even.

And P.S., the Marth boards just redid the MK matchup and have it listed as 65:35 MK's favor. Looks like Marth is not that good of a choice either (better than Sonic by far, but not good).

 

[S.B.Soldier]

Ok, there are a few characters that have some decent advantages against MK...

50:50 is a very arguable ratio, but IT'S NOT IMPOSSIBLE!

Marth - defensive playing against a Meta Knight creates HUGE advantages when it comes to range... get MK caught is his forward a combos to rack up some serious damage... also, you cannot break certain moves, but countering them can give you an escape route.

Mario - a bit harder to use, but fireballs, the cape, and most definitely his B-AIR can do some damage..
If you use his B-AIR like you use Marth's F-AIR, you can do some heft damage as well.

Pit - use him like MK, you'd be surprised what this little guy can do... his forward b is good for a defensive play, and his reflector shield can protect you against MK's forward b... also, with the ability to jump like metaknight, keep consistent off stage pressure on MK. Pit can have some pretty weak finishers.. so use him (theoretically mind you) like fox... where you must use very quick little attacks to build up serious damage before final punishment is dealt.

 

[complexity1234]

My main has nothing to do with this. I'm not talking about the Sonic vs MK matchup. I'm talking about how nobody can seem to come up with a 50:50 matchup for MK that is you know...agreed upon. No, random n00bs don't have to agree with it, but I want to see some top level players back up these "even" matchups. Or at least give reasoning to why it's even.

And P.S., the Marth boards just redid the MK matchup and have it listed as 65:35 MK's favor. Looks like Marth is not that good of a choice either (better than Sonic by far, but not good).

If you want an example...

You people have been brainwashed.

Snake goes even with or beats MK, and plenty of characters have really close matchups with MK. It is essentially the same as Sheik in Melee (she is extremely underrated) where her worst matchups are spacies and ICs and she goes about even with both of them, except sheik ***** the rest of the cast more than MK ***** the rest of the cast.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5560666#post5560666

If you become a decent snake you would already know this though..