The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v3.0

[Dark.Pch]

Haha nice job continuing to dodge what I asked for. I used the tourney data for a reason. Characters that are used (and succeed) in a tourney setting do so for a number of reasons, ranging from character popularity, to the current state of the metagame, to their viability in such a setting. By pointing out that Jiggz is DEAD LAST IN TOURNEY PLACINGS, I am implying that she is the most underused, unviable, and unpopular character in a setting that focuses on HIGH LEVEL PLAY. Why do you think that is?

Is it unreasonable to assume that because a character performs the worst out of the cast when it counts for anything, that she is the worst character?

That is sound logic, imo

Ok, let me explain something to you. Using the ranking list is notreally a good way to explain how good a character is. Not every tournament there was something big or with a high comeptition level. A dude could sumbit tournaments with falcon getting top 5 at the tournies. And only a few times placing bad. Falco on the rankings would be boosted high. Does this mean falcon is D-C material? No

The competition, skills of the players (how good, smart they are in general and with thier character) counts. Characters can get bossted up by going to tournaments that are not as strong/tuff as a regional/national or a tournament if a decent size (40+) with lots of good players in it. People tend to forget this all the time.

So you bring up the rank list here does not prove anything. You wanna bring tournies into this? Get tournies where it was hard with lots of skilled players and jiigs was in them, and she me what she placed. Anything below that does not matter in terms of how good/bad a character is.

And remember this. What also counts is:

- How good is the player in general
- How good is the player with his character

 

[Nidtendofreak]

There are worse characters than Jiggs in mid right now, lol.

lol no

Everyone in mid tier right now are more usable by a LONG shot. Same with everyone in low tier.

Jigglypuff sucks. Brawl is not the game for her. She should only be winning tournaments (or even reaching the top 8) if nobody has every played against one before, and the person using her is freaking amazing.

 

[Xebenkeck]

I think jiggs having a even and possible adv. over diddy, and a reasonable match-up with MK makes her better than Ganon Link and C.falcon on princable alone. Good match-ups with argueably the 2 best chars in the game.

 

[Chuee]

Diddy is 55-45 Diddy, and MK ***** jiggz.

 

[Deleted member]

There are worse characters than Jiggs in mid right now, lol.

Falsee false false.

Sonic: Much much better, no questions
Shiek: Ftilt lol, needles, etc.

Nobody else is even arguable.
D tier if thats what u mean:
PT: Clearly not, besides just results you can just look at the characters. altho jiggs is probably a little bit better than ivy imo.
Ike: Nawww
Zelda: This is actually true lolol but zelda is moving down.


MK completely ***** jiggs as long as they know no to use nado, cuz jiggs can rest that ****
Idk about diddy

 

[Xebenkeck]

When i say reasonable i mean not 70-30 or worse, as CF, Ganon and Link do against MK. and if you think otherwise.......

 

[Chuee]

Jiggly MK is about 70-30

 

[Justblaze647]

Jigglypuff is mid tier.

This is outrageously wrong.

Period.

 

[Demp]

Why the **** does Jiggs deserve so many pages of discussion?

 

[Frank West]

edit: No way Jiggs vs. Diddy is that close. Jiggs KO ability is just too lacking compared to diddy

 

[<π]

jiggs can kill low as hell and can avoid death very well against most of the cast. he bait and punish game is ridiculous.

Jiggs is crazy underrated and misunderstood. I could definitely see her above characters like zelda bowser and wolf to name a few random ones.

 

[ShadowLink84]

 

[Javon89]

What do you guy think the low tier is gonna look like?

And Jiggz is better than CF, GDorf, and Link.

 

[tocador]

My dear /swf/tards, in all seriousness, and looking @Logics(olimar) placing @pound4, is there a chance olimar can bob to the top rise in our next tier list?

 

[Goldenadept]

jiggs can kill low as hell and can avoid death very well against most of the cast. he bait and punish game is ridiculous.

Jiggs is crazy underrated and misunderstood. I could definitely see her above characters like zelda bowser and wolf to name a few random ones.

i bolded the character that made me lol
in no way shape or form is jiggly better than wolf, ever
or even bowser for that matter. i can agree with zelda

 

[Kewkky]

i bolded the character that made me lol
in no way shape or form is jiggly better than wolf, ever
or even bowser for that matter. i can agree with zelda

I think Jiggs is better than Fox, and has an even matchup against Falco. After all, utilt>rest/uthrow>rest = 2gud.

Owait, this ain't melee~

 

[Luigi player]

My dear /swf/tards, in all seriousness, and looking @Logics(olimar) placing @pound4, is there a chance olimar can bob to the top rise in our next tier list?

I think Olimar fits really well at his current position.

GaW should drop which would make Olimar rise, but ICs should be higher than he is and thus he stays the same...

 

[DanGR]

My dear /swf/tards, in all seriousness, and looking @Logics(olimar) placing @pound4, is there a chance olimar can bob to the top rise in our next tier list?

He didn't play any Meta Knights till he lost in Loser's and got 8th...
(-Not to take away from Logic's incredible placement or anything though. He still beat a lot of great players.)

No, he doesn't deserve a rise... unless you'll prove he does well against Meta, which no one has yet to do.

 

[Browny]

Something that gets me which is never brought up in tier discussions or matchups etc, which i believe is an EXTREMELY important trait, one which overrides almost every other except safe approaches/defensive attacks, is the ability to avoid kill moves.

I see all these people arguing about how so-and-so can rack up damage, recover well, projectile camp bla bla bla but no one considers how important it is to be able to avoid KO moves. On one end youve got G&W, believed to now be considerably worse than when he started because his only KO moves come off tech chasing or reads, couple this with the fact that he cant safely avoid many KO moves of top tier characters and youve got a problem...

Being able to chose when and where you want to get KO'd to me, should be an extremely important trait looked at. its one thing to be dead once youre offstage, but who cares if you have a poor recovery if the enemy can never SAFELY actually put you there in the first place?

I believe characters like MK, Wario, pika, olimar, lucario, tl, sonic, squirtle, jigglypuff and maybe a few others make very good use of this trait and its reflected by them being considerably better characters due to this. When I look down the tier list it seems to be a pretty obvious trend of characters who are perceived to be rising in the tier list are all able to avoid KO moves at will, characters that are assumed dropping have rather severe problems with landing lag, unsafe KO moves and poor ledge options.

I just hope people consider this a lot more when discussing characters... characters who cant hold on to their stock fail at tournaments more than those who can, across all tier divisions :/

 

[Chuee]

jiggs can kill low as hell and can avoid death very well against most of the cast. he bait and punish game is ridiculous.

Jiggs is crazy underrated and misunderstood. I could definitely see her above characters like zelda bowser and wolf to name a few random ones.

Jiggz can't kill low at all. The only low killers she has are Fsmash and rest, both absolutely suck at killing. She can't avoid dying that well because of her terrible range.

 

[zeldspazz]

Jigg's Fair kills nicely

*disappears*

 

[Chuee]

It doesn't kill early, and has bad range.

 

[Crow!]

Something that gets me which is never brought up in tier discussions or matchups etc, which i believe is an EXTREMELY important trait, one which overrides almost every other except safe approaches/defensive attacks, is the ability to avoid kill moves.

...

I believe characters like ... jigglypuff ... make very good use of this trait and its reflected by them being considerably better characters due to this.

The trouble with Jiggles in this regard is that yes, it is difficult to set her up for a traditional kill move as she floats in and out, but she's so much lighter than everyone else that attacks that normally aren't kill moves at all can do her in at reasonable percentages.

 

[Deleted member]

jiggs can kill low as hell and can avoid death very well against most of the cast. he bait and punish game is ridiculous.

Jiggs is crazy underrated and misunderstood. I could definitely see her above characters like zelda bowser and wolf to name a few random ones.

Did u just say that jigglypuff is above WOLF?

Honestly?

 

[Nestec]

The trouble with Jiggles in this regard is that yes, it is difficult to set her up for a traditional kill move as she floats in and out, but she's so much lighter than everyone else that attacks that normally aren't kill moves at all can do her in at reasonable percentages.

That's a completely pointless argument when she's avoiding kill moves anyway.

Fragile + evasive > Durable + easy-to-hit

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

That's a completely pointless argument when she's avoiding kill moves anyway.

Fragile + evasive > Durable + easy-to-hit

Jigglypuff's range combined with her weight

You can't avoid kills if you are not going for kills.

 

[Justblaze647]

Fragile + evasive > Durable + easy-to-hit

Tell that to D3

 

[St. Viers]

not really--it depends on player skill. Being able to evade attacks doesn't mean you will, whereas being durable is always true.

 

[stingers]

Exactly, which is why fast/mobile characters generally always win at top levels of play.

Snake is a tricky exception, see every other smash game @.@

 

[Dark 3nergy]

Jigglypuff's range combined with her weight

You can't avoid kills if you are not going for kills.

^^^ this

you can be as nimble and swift as much as you like. Yet if you dont have safe options for killing you will be putting yourself at risk anyway

Tell that to D3

Good D3's will make it very difficult for you to hit them

 

[<π]

Jiggly is a beast if you actually know what this game is about at high levels of play. Paper (that is to say frame data, hits stun, knock back, weight) doesn't win matches, good jiggly proves that.

 

[tocador]

Do you think DK will fall one more time? I mean 2 falls since the first TL, dosent he deserve to go up at least 1 spot?

 

[St. Viers]

@tocador: that is incredibly well reasoned. Surely the BR will take this input to heart.

@<3: do you have vids of good puff players? Just curious, as puff is a character I play sometimes, and also would help support your arguments

 

[SmashBrother2008]

Exactly, which is why fast/mobile characters generally always win at top levels of play.

Snake is a tricky exception, see every other smash game @.@

Now, now. Don't generalize. Captain Falcon is one of the most mobile characters in the game. I doubt that you meant it that way... but I appreciate the gesture!

 

[<π]

@tocador: that is incredibly well reasoned. Surely the BR will take this input to heart.

@<3: do you have vids of good puff players? Just curious, as puff is a character I play sometimes, and also would help support your arguments

Not really... I have a few vids of my friendlies with jiggs up on youtube but they kinda suck I don't think they do my jiggy justice. I'll try and get some more recent vids up in the near future.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRcnPIRPLrA

 

[Chuee]

Jiggz doesn't have any tourney rep at all.

 

[Meru.]

Nvm, didn't read well

 

[A2ZOMG]

Jigglypuff is D tier at minimum. She is very good at playing safe, punishing, not getting gimped, and edgeguarding. Pound is gay on shields and spotdodge and beats a lot of attacks with its lingering mobile disjoint. Rollout is a stupid attack that is nearly impossible to punish with another kill move. D-air has a small chance of causing a trip into Rest, which is lethal. This character can also supplement for her lack of KOs with her good options for edgeguards, and can aircamp and edgecamp when she has a lead.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Just how good is her air/ledge camping. What moves does she do all this with?

 

[A2ZOMG]

Superior mobility and multiple jumps is enough for this character to be very difficult to touch safely.