The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v3.0

[Supermodel From Paris]

Well it's not just that, but frankly a lot of what Peach can do is based on the opponent messing up/not understanding their options as well as they should.

Like when Peach Dairs, I'm surprised how rare it seems for people to SDI out of it, at least in the matches I have watched. Like, I assumed that this late into Brawl's metagame that people would find it fairly common to SDI stuff more frequently/learn the timing to SDI stuff better, but I still see tournament matches where the other person will barely SDI, pick the wrong direction, or not SDI it at all.

Right, like how people should be sdiing the Falco dair spike, but don't, right? You could apply this kind of thinking to virtually any character.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Umm... what? You are smarts are not acceptable here to answer this question?


Should have just called him a ****wad lol.

that works.

Because they actually have a passable movement speed.

if you seriously thing that is what counts than thats not legit reason at all. Snake is slow as hell, only mobility he has is that upsmash slide. which one jab can just down.

Well it's not just that, but frankly a lot of what Peach can do is based on the opponent messing up/not understanding their options as well as they should.

Like when Peach Dairs, I'm surprised how rare it seems for people to SDI out of it, at least in the matches I have watched. Like, I assumed that this late into Brawl's metagame that people would find it fairly common to SDI stuff more frequently/learn the timing to SDI stuff better, but I still see tournament matches where the other person will barely SDI, pick the wrong direction, or not SDI it at all.

No that is not true at all. Peach is a mindgame kind of character for all the stuff she can do. She can bait really well and confuse the **** out of people played right. You can't take away the credit of a Peach player getting at someone all because you say they messed up or w/e.

 

[_Phloat_]

Right, like how people should be sdiing the Falco dair spike, but don't, right? You could apply this kind of thinking to virtually any character.

No, because some moves are easier to SDI than others. Reflex, for example, makes my turtle completely useless... but you can't apply that to Snake's F-tilt just because you say you can.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

No, because some moves are easier to SDI than others. Reflex, for example, makes my turtle completely useless... but you can't apply that to Snake's F-tilt just because you say you can.

Uh, that's my point. Peach's Dair isn't easy to SDI. She mindgames you into getting hit by it, and by then it's over.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Smash DIing Peach dair comes from fast reflexes. if one knows you will go for a chain of Dairs, they will smash DI out of it no problem. But if you just clap them once, they won't be thinking of SDI out of it. and if they some how like to, I short hop dairs, that way I can follow up with anything I can at the moment quick. Short hop dairs are freaking amazing. People don't even know about this stuff yet.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

if you seriously thing that is what counts than thats not legit reason at all. Snake is slow as hell, only mobility he has is that upsmash slide. which one jab can just down.

Snake has range out the ***, and is much faster when moving around in general; the shieldstun on his attacks is generally more significant. His moves also hit like a Mack truck. He also has a much better jump for quick movement.

It's much, MUCH harder to get results by attempting to outmaneuver Snake than Peach as a result of this.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Snake has range out the ***, and is much faster when moving around in general; the shieldstun on his attacks is generally more significant. His moves also hit like a Mack truck. He also has a much better jump for quick movement.

It's much, MUCH harder to get results by attempting to outmaneuver Snake than Peach as a result of this.

You just corrected yourself. Speed is not everything then. So saying they have more speed than Peach is not a valid reason for my question I just asked. Snake is a slow mofo, yet look at what he got.

If this is seriously how people go on about characters then i must say its really sad and bias to the list and players who work their butts off with their mains.

Now that thats out the way, what was the other reason they are over Peach? Reason one is no good.

 

[Sky`]

I have a Question I want a member from The SBR to answer?

Just how the hell DK and Pit went over Peach?

You probably don't want me to answer this for you, But I will, because I fit the minimum requirements for your standards. :]

DK's Backair, Priority, And his 'newly' found ability to super-armor his way through falco's lasers has made him a viable character. Not to mention the fact that it is indeed that of a 'bad' match-up for marth, a comment character in todays metagame. DK can effectively camp you with his punches (lol iknorite?) and to put it simply, '*****es don't know about his back air.'

Pit.

Camp.

End.


Really, Pit played to perfection is one that camps and baits, and if you do that perfectly, you should be actually getting somewhere. Take Zex for example, third best in Nor-cal. To win tournaments, often times he switches to pit, and camps for the entire match. He lands the win, safely and securely, because not many characters have answers to that kind of spam. And as long as your defensive game is on key, you shouldn't have a problem with close combat with pit either.

At least Peach went up, right? x]

 

[DMG]

Right, like how people should be sdiing the Falco dair spike, but don't, right? You could apply this kind of thinking to virtually any character.

No, because some moves are easier to SDI than others. Reflex, for example, makes my turtle completely useless... but you can't apply that to Snake's F-tilt just because you say you can.

Uh, that's my point. Peach's Dair isn't easy to SDI. She mindgames you into getting hit by it, and by then it's over.

Smash DIing Peach dair comes from fast reflexes. if one knows you will go for a chain of Dairs, they will smash DI out of it no problem. But if you just clap them once, they won't be thinking of SDI out of it. and if they some how like to, I short hop dairs, that way I can follow up with anything I can at the moment quick. Short hop dairs are freaking amazing. People don't even know about this stuff yet.

Peaches Dair is like G&W's Bair. It is multi hit, she has to be in the air to use it, kinda easy to see coming, etc. It's a lot easier to SDI an attack when it hits you 5 times and gives you time in between those hits to SDI out of it. SDIing Falco's Dair is something people SHOULD do, but I can understand why it's harder to effectively SDI that compared to a move like Turtle or Peach's Dair since it only hits once and hits pretty fast.

Ask Kosmos, I have played him a lot, especially in tournament, he knows Dair is easy to SDI out of, he's seen me and others do it to him in tournament. It doesn't mean the other character is completely safe from Peach, since if you SDI out too late she can follow up with a surprise Nair or something, but as far as getting out of Dair is concerned, it's really easy.

There are two scenarios for Dair really. You either hit them with it early in the move, which gives them more hits/chances to escape, or you are hitting them with the last few hits so that they cannot escape as easy. The second situation is hard to do since you have to be basically a bit outside their range, start Dair, and move into them which would give them more time to avoid getting hit by Dair in the first place, or you try to hit them early with Dair and they Spotdodge or something and you nick them with the last hit of it.

If you really work at it, you can start to SDI faster stuff like jabs and moves like MK's Dsmash and Snake's Ftilt.

 

[Nefarious B]

You just corrected yourself. Speed is not everything then. So saying they have more speed than Peach is not a valid reason for my question I just asked. Snake is a slow mofo, yet look at what he got.

If this is seriously how people go on about characters then i must say its really sad and bias to the list and players who work their butts off with their mains.

Now that thats out the way, what was the other reason they are over Peach? Reason one is no good.

Didn't you quit or something?

Peach is an average character, worse than the ones above her and better than most below her. You obviously can't look at the individual traits and say she wins or loses because of this. You look at the character and determine that she is not as good as the others.There's your reasoning.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

You just corrected yourself. Speed is not everything then. So saying they have more speed than Peach is not a valid reason for my question I just asked. Snake is a slow mofo, yet look at what he got.

If this is seriously how people go on about characters then i must say its really sad and bias to the list and players who work their butts off with their mains.

Now that thats out the way, what was the other reason they are over Peach? Reason one is no good.

What are you talking about? Snake is FASTER than Peach in general, because of how quickly his greater reach comes out and his jump speed. For the most part, that is what I said. The other things are just gravy that Peach doesn't have, either.

It's not about bias when the people working hard aren't accomplishing enough to change minds. It's about results, plain and simple.

 

[Dark.Pch]

What are you talking about? Snake is FASTER than Peach in general, because of how quickly his greater reach comes out and his jump speed. For the most part, that is what I said. The other things are just gravy that Peach doesn't have, either.

It's not about bias when the people working hard aren't accomplishing enough to change minds. It's about results, plain and simple.

Like what? explain, cause you have not said one thing for my question to be answered besides speed which means nothing in this case.Why is DK and Pit over Peach?

Also, if range equals speed, then turn this tier list backwards. Ok, Sanke has faster jumps, bur runs faster and walks faster than snake. oh look, it's a tie.

You really can't answer my question can you?

Edit- I thought it was not only based on tournament results alone, so what is the deal here?

 

[Shaya]

For a character such as Peach which relies heavily on an aerial game; Peach cannot handle the aerials of MANY characters, especially those with GOOD aerial mobility.

Counting that she has the worst air dodge in the game... well... She's given this god **** ironic kick to the balls; relies on the air, but gets hit in the air? she's ****ed.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Like what? explain, cause you have not said one thing for my question to be answered besides speed which means nothing in this case.Why is DK and Pit over Peach?

Also, if range equals speed, then turn this tier list backwards. Ok, Sanke has faster jumps, bur runs faster and walks faster than snake. oh look, it's a tie.

You really can't answer my question can you?

Edit- I thought it was not only based on tournament results alone, so what is the deal here?

SNAKE HURTS PEOPLE. SNAKE KILLS PEOPLE. HIS SHIELDSTUN HAS MUCH MORE OF AN IMPACT IN GENERAL BECAUSE OF MOST OF HIS GROUND MOVES HAVING LITTLE LAG, AND BECAUSE OF HIS OBSCENE RANGE.

Peach can't do much out of her run or her walk. A walking Snake is actually a very scary presence, capable of creating a barrier with U-Smash, frame 1 grenade, or his ridiculous tilts. Peach has her jab and her dash attack, both of which has amazing speed and priority, but deal little damage. F-Air can be avoided on reaction, and N-Air is fairly obvious.

I don't see what there is to compare.

It's not just based on tournament results, either; if it was, then Pokemon Trainer would be Ballin' Tier.

 

[Zankoku]

Results, not tournament results. Seeing is believing, and personally watching a Peach fare well in a tournament emphasizes much more than simple numbers, for many people.

 

[Dark.Pch]

You probably don't want me to answer this for you, But I will, because I fit the minimum requirements for your standards. :]

DK's Backair, Priority, And his 'newly' found ability to super-armor his way through falco's lasers has made him a viable character. Not to mention the fact that it is indeed that of a 'bad' match-up for marth, a comment character in todays metagame. DK can effectively camp you with his punches (lol iknorite?) and to put it simply, '*****es don't know about his back air.'

Pit.

Camp.

End.


Really, Pit played to perfection is one that camps and baits, and if you do that perfectly, you should be actually getting somewhere. Take Zex for example, third best in Nor-cal. To win tournaments, often times he switches to pit, and camps for the entire match. He lands the win, safely and securely, because not many characters have answers to that kind of spam. And as long as your defensive game is on key, you shouldn't have a problem with close combat with pit either.

At least Peach went up, right? x]

You right............I did not want you to answer cause I knew I get something like that from you. which means nothing really from some of the stuff you saying here.

You go on about a bad match up for match and DK got it, yet Peach goes even with DDD played correctly and DK gets recked by him due to the infinite.

And DK camping with punches? The hell? Whos DK camped you with punches and won? this has got to be a joke. Let me tell you a lil something, I'll start with DK.

First off, the thing about Peach not being able to kill, enough already, seriously, enough. This does not exist anymore cause its just about in every excuse I hear. So scratch this out. Now for the real fight.

Peach is a quicker brawler up close. Wether taking it to ground floating, which brings her air game to the ground and brings more upclose combat to the ground. DK is not faster than Peach in fighting up close. And with all her fighting options when in ones face Makes her a solid fighter and not much to fear

Ok Has More range. Ok. Peach has range as well and faster at spacing than DK is. She Can be in someone and space the hell out of them and it be hard to get inside her cause Her spaced moves don't stay out for days. Also her air moves auto cancel. Ranges is not always the best choice for everything, for it can have its donwsides. Marth is a spacing God. But done right Marth can even have a hard time getting a clean shot on Peach. She has good range on her air attacks and speed with the spaceing.

Oh and don't get me started on her ground spacing which is a mixture of evasion. And her Dtilt slide is a good toll for that. Dtilt somone and if they sheild it you can pull away to a Fsmash or Ftilt or jab if they wanna try and counter attack. If not get your space from the slide and get a turnip. Safe hit and run with a barrier or an extra toll you get (which is a turnip when moving back.

Peach has better evasion than DK, He is a Big as monkey who is not hard to hit. Even with that air speed he has. Her quick spacing makes it hard to hit (If the Peach player is great at spacing) So you can retreat and space to get space and not take a hit. Platforms help increase her evasion as well. This is why I love battlefield against Hard match ups. Cause you will need to evade alot.

Peach has alot of Approaches and good ones. More than DK. And of course with spacing, hard to punish or get baited into the approaches and take a hit.

- Fair
- FC>Fair
- Dair
- FC>Dair
- FC>Nair
- Turnip>Fair
- FC>Turnip>Fair
- Bair
- Glide tossing
- Nair

Advance approaches:

- Glide toss> FC>Nair
- Glide toss>reverse Bair
- Glide toss>Nair
- Glide toss>Grab
- Reverse Glide toss> Dsmash or Fsmash
- Reverse Glide toss> Bair

She is one of the best characters in the game when it comes to approaching.

Turnips. Turnips are not a weapon for damage. You just don't get one and toss them hoping to hit one. Turnips are a damm mindgame. Just by holding a turnip in your hand. You are already toying with your opponents head. When you get one, it buts your opponent on the defense cause they do not wanna get hit. You did not have to do anything to them to screw with them. Turnips are a tool to mess with the mind and THEN get your damage off.

"pluck turnip"
"toss it"

NO!^ There is about maybe 6 steps before you toss it. Also Peach can fight with items in her hand via floating. And she can bring that Floating to the ground for more of a confusing. Your opponent won't be able to tell when you will toss the damm turnip. She is like the drunken master. Maybe His wife, w/e. Just holding that thing in your hand can lead to so much confusing. Hell, might even confuse the hell out of you. Yes it is that serious.

Peach has More recovery Option Than DK. All he has is Up-B. Peach has:

Up-B (obviously)
F-B
Float
Toad

"But his Up-B Has super Armor and hard to edge guard"

Good things always have a downside to it. Done right you are able to force the player to a point where he has to aim for the edge or the stage. And when going to the stage, you can chase DK and punish upon his landing. And He can't turn the other way to escape. The momentum change is so slow.

"But Peach is a sitting duck when she up-B. She is a goner"

Bad things always have an upside to it.

Done right. You can recover to the stage without ever having to up-B. I don't ever burn my jump unless I have too. Even when it looks like I should, I don't and I can make it back. Also when Peach gets the chance, she should ALWAYS recover High. F-B and toad help with this. Oh and guess what. From this you still have 2 recovery options left. Second Jump and up-B.

Also with her Up-B you can open and close it really quick and do quick momentum changes. Do that trick Excel spoke about with the C-stick. Also U can use toad to air stall to slightly increase evasion and land safe to the ground.

Now a Few words from my squad Member when we had day 2 of boot camp. Mikey Lenetia, speak them words:

One thing to use an aggressive style is to know EXACTLY when moves will work and when they won't, and not limiting yourself to only a few moves because of them not doing a lot of damage.

Jabs, dair, turnips, dash attack, grabs, everything HAS to be used so that when you finally get around to the higher percents, they'll do a heck of a lot more. Don't worry about using powerful moves, but... don't abuse them. What I mean by what I say is that you have to have a mix of the weaker attacks that don't send far(including down smash, I CAN'T STRESS THIS ENOUGH, it's useful!) with the ones that do.

That way, even though you're aggressive and moving in and out of range, they really won't know what's going to come out. Also, the most important point that goes for Peach, in my opinion, across the board. Just because they're at percents that things like fair and usmash will kill doesn't mean it's then time to break out the killers. One, to keep them guessing even more and making it actually easier to land a fresh killer. Two, you also build enough damage so something they don't expect, like say uair, will kill.

This is why this man is ****.

DK, better than Peach? Hell no. Nerfed or not, no way Kids. Peach deserves her right in her PROPER throne. People need to get their heads out the bias and into the truth that people just don't wanna try and believe.

For a character such as Peach which relies heavily on an aerial game; Peach cannot handle the aerials of MANY characters, especially those with GOOD aerial mobility.

Counting that she has the worst air dodge in the game... well... She's given this god **** ironic kick to the balls; relies on the air, but gets hit in the air? she's ****ed.

You really think Peach relies on an air game, and if you take that away its over? No, her ground game is just as good and has lots of options from it. I say way more than her air game. and if I wanna be slick I can ground float to bring my air game to the ground done. people need to stop thinking that if her air game is shut down, its done. reason might be you never seen a Good Peach with an good solid ground game at work. I played good campy azz falcos and beaten them. and he cuts her air game down. So gotta rely on the ground more. Same with righting Marths.

And also wanna get at Peach air doege? Ok

- Marth is not good when people are under him and has one of the worst air dodges in the game
-Snake is not good in the air and that is one of his weaknesses.
Olimar is nearly finished once you get his azz off the stage. easy to gimp.
-Falcos Recovery
-Lucarios recovery

Yet look at all this stuff they got to make up for it. people always go on about "peach cant do this and that, she can't kill, her air dodge is garbage, etc" Yet how many people take too take the time of all the stuff she has to make up for her bad crap. same goes for others, yes even for characters like meta and he is the best in the game.

When have people actually took the time to sit down with a character and look at them fully. Learn ALL the stuff they have and can/can't do. I can saftely say lil to none at all if this is what I hear for answers to my question.

if you want a debate then i'm down with it, test me on anything deal with Peach and these 2 characters and I'll just show you what the deal really is. I know my stuff with this character, Know way too much and I am not afraid to test what I know with ANYONE on here to prove a point.

So Far I heard nothing that is legit to why DK and Pit belong over Peach.

 

[Tec0+9]

DK owns Dedede.

 

[soloSHADOWROB]

Wow How Long Have I Been Out Of The Game!!!!!

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Also, just to hopefully help the discussion a bit, Dark.Pch, you're condescending as hell. Knock it off; no one is going to take you seriously when you come off like that.

Also, Peach is a mediocre character. Pokemon Trainer should be higher than Peach.

 

[Red Arremer]

DK owns Dedede.

I know you're kidding, but honestly, I think only Dedede is Donkey Kong's really horrible matchup, while Peach has what? 3 or 4, I think.

 

[Dark.Pch]

SNAKE HURTS PEOPLE. SNAKE KILLS PEOPLE. HIS SHIELDSTUN HAS MUCH MORE OF AN IMPACT IN GENERAL BECAUSE OF MOST OF HIS GROUND MOVES HAVING LITTLE LAG, AND BECAUSE OF HIS OBSCENE RANGE.

Peach can't do much out of her run or her walk. A walking Snake is actually a very scary presence, capable of creating a barrier with U-Smash, frame 1 grenade, or his ridiculous tilts. Peach has her jab and her dash attack, both of which has amazing speed and priority, but deal little damage. F-Air can be avoided on reaction, and N-Air is fairly obvious.

I don't see what there is to compare.

It's not just based on tournament results, either; if it was, then Pokemon Trainer would be Ballin' Tier.

You failed to see my example with the walk/run part.

And I can do things out of her walk and run. Really things like Dtilt slide>w/e for counter attack/spacing/evasion

I can be technical and all some ground floating for more spacing and evasion.

But what i find funny is how you ignore all the bad stuff about snake and go on about the good. yet the good about Peach does not matter and people go on so much about the bad on Peach. Seriously what the hell. People don't wanna look at it from both good or bad cause you think ether the character is god or the character is really nothing? is that is?

Also you keep bring up snake when he is not the main pint here. this is peach with DK and PIT on why they are above her and you still can't give me a legit reason for it. No one has.

Also, just to hopefully help the discussion a bit, Dark.Pch, you're condescending as hell. Knock it off; no one is going to take you seriously when you come off like that.

Also, Peach is a mediocre character. Pokemon Trainer should be higher than Peach.

I would first like to say that don't assume I am angry or w/e from how I sound here. I don't use faces or phrases like "lol" on the net. I'm just fine and actually have fun in this lil debate. I love going at it about Peach. More fun than playing this game. But I'm fine.

And as for your statement, back it up with some facts or w/e of this could be just said cause you main and thing Peach is really nothing.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

You failed to see my example with the walk/run part.

And I can do things out of her walk and run. Really things like Dtilt slide>w/e for counter attack/spacing/evasion

I can be technical and all some ground floating for more spacing and evasion.

But what i find funny is how you ignore all the bad stuff about snake and go on about the good. yet the good about Peach does not matter and people go on so much about the bad on Peach. Seriously what the hell. People don't wanna look at it from both good or bad cause you think ether the character is god or the character is really nothing? is that is?

Also you keep bring up snake when he is not the main pint here. this is peach with DK and PIT on why they are above her and you still can't give me a legit reason for it. No one has.

I didn't fail to see the example. It just wasn't compelling at all, so I dismissed it. Peach having a slightly faster walk and run plays to her favor in general very sporadically.

D-Tilt leaves you open to a short-hop aerial approach, but it is somewhat safe otherwise. Still, hardly a panacea for Peach.

It's not about ignoring Peach's good and highlighting the bad.

It's that the list of Snake's good stuff has much more weight on the situation than Peach's, and Peach's bad stuff has much more weight on the situation than Snake's.

It's a matter of averages, and Peach doesn't even break even compared to the rest of the cast.

I keep bringing up Snake because you welcomed the question about Snake in the first place, so I figured I'd just fight a really easy battle from that example.

if you seriously thing that is what counts than thats not legit reason at all. Snake is slow as hell, only mobility he has is that upsmash slide. which one jab can just down.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I didn't fail to see the example. It just wasn't compelling at all, so I dismissed it. Peach having a slightly faster walk and run plays to her favor in general very sporadically.

D-Tilt leaves you open to a short-hop aerial approach, but it is somewhat safe otherwise. Still, hardly a panacea for Peach.

It's not about ignoring Peach's good and highlighting the bad.

It's that the list of Snake's good stuff has much more weight on the situation than Peach's, and Peach's bad stuff has much more weight on the situation than Snake's.

It's a matter of averages, and Peach doesn't even break even compared to the rest of the cast.

I keep bringing up Snake because you welcomed the question about Snake in the first place, so I figured I'd just fight a really easy battle from that example.

Ok not the point. but since you wanna wanna drop this, what you say about Snakes jumps and all that means nothing at all.

And No Her Dtilt does not. Dtilt slide to the greatest ditance she can go to a Ftilt or Fsmash, You are not gonna punish that easy with an air assult. Really her Dtilt slide to Fsmash.

And Once again, this is not about Peach and Snake. Snake is good, w/e not my point with this tier list. I am getting at peach against DK and Pit on the list. You keep bring up others when they are not what I am talking about. I am talking about three 2 characters vs Peach on the tier list and you keep ducking the question or can't give me a legit anwser on why they belong over her.

I brought way more than enough Facts into this thread on Peach. More than i should have really. And I can keep bring in more stuff to hold up my claim. Really on why she belongs over pit and DK. Yet not one person can come to me with a legit answer on why Pit and DK is over Peach, and this is a big problem. This is about a tier list and all. And I have questions I want answered. I have the right to know. And believe me I will fight for my character and even the spot she deserves to be in sir.

But since this seems to be going off road, lets start over eh?

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Why is Pit and DK over Peach? And I wan answer from someone who is in the SBR.

 

[Red Arremer]

Why is Pit and DK over Peach? And I wan answer from someone who is in the SBR.

Do you want the correct answer that is fact or do you want the assumption and thoughts answer?

 

[Dark.Pch]

Do you want the correct answer that is fact or do you want the assumption and thoughts answer?

So I can get a full understand on how things were ran and how people think of these 2 and my main (cause honestly IMO, I dont think most in there can get into detail and hardcore facts like me in the SBR more than me with Peach and her vs matchs as well)
I would need both types of answers. I want the full story.

 

[Red Arremer]

Since I don't know all too much about either of these 3 characters (especially Pit), I admit, I will just give you the factual answer:

Because the SBRoomers voted so.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Ok not the point. but since you wanna wanna drop this, what you say about Snakes jumps and all that means nothing at all.

And No Her Dtilt does not. Dtilt slide to the greatest ditance she can go to a Ftilt or Fsmash, You are not gonna punish that easy with an air assult. Really her Dtilt slide to Fsmash.

And Once again, this is not about Peach and Snake. Snake is good, w/e not my point with this tier list. I am getting at peach against DK and Pit on the list. You keep bring up others when they are not what I am talking about. I am talking about three 2 characters vs Peach on the tier list and you keep ducking the question or can't give me a legit anwser on why they belong over her.

I brought way more than enough Facts into this thread on Peach. More than i should have really. And I can keep bring in more stuff to hold up my claim. Really on why she belongs over pit and DK. Yet not one person can come to me with a legit answer on why Pit and DK is over Peach, and this is a big problem. This is about a tier list and all. And I have questions I want answered. I have the right to know. And believe me I will fight for my character and even the spot she deserves to be in sir.

But since this seems to be going off road, lets start over eh?

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Why is Pit and DK over Peach? And I wan answer from someone who is in the SBR.

It doesn't work that way. You can't say "all of Meta Knight's retardedly good attributes mean nothing" without saying why they don't, and that goes for anything else you dismiss.

D-Tilt -> F-Smash is a lot of frames. A short-hopped aerial from most characters would easily outspeed it.

What you don't understand is that what we're talking about is Peach vs. Snake. I don't care to argue DK/Pit's viability. I'm just showing you how you can't possibly compare Peach's mobility to Snake's, and how speed by itself really does makes a gigantic difference.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I know it. Peach is one of the characters that get it the worst cause of stuff like this. More brains and work needs to be done in there with Peach man, like seriously. And I can guess the other half of the answer from how I seen people talk about Peach in here since I asked the question. Seriously just look at the posts. It's the same typical stuff you would hear from people about Peach. it never ends.

It doesn't work that way. You can't say "all of Meta Knight's retardedly good attributes mean nothing" without saying why they don't, and that goes for anything else you dismiss.

D-Tilt -> F-Smash is a lot of frames. A short-hopped aerial from most characters would easily outspeed it.

What you don't understand is that what we're talking about is Peach vs. Snake. I don't care to argue DK/Pit's viability. I'm just showing you how you can't possibly compare Peach's mobility to Snake's, and how speed by itself really does makes a gigantic difference.

First off You are not gonna punish a spaced Dtilt tilt slide to a Fsmash if you Dtilt slide to max distance. Ask Forte who beast with this crap when he uses Peach. the distance you get from the slide and while spacing the Dtilt, no, you will not just that move like easy with an air assult. Do you even know about her Dtilt slide and the oh so many options that you get out of it? or are you saying this out of your own opinion?

Second, No cause I came here asking about Pit and DK on Peach and you can't answer me that at all and you are in the SBR. Thats what I came here for. I brought up her speed cause you went on about his jumps like it really proved something. Peach walks/runs faster than snake. Snake jumps faster than Peach...............

Ok, back to square one. what this has to do with anything else? I don't care about snake compared to Peach cause that is not what I came in here for. So really means nothing and you seriously dont get what I am saying. bring up his jump speed means nothing. Bringing Up Peachs walk/run speed means nothing. it leads back to square one on something they have over each other and thus a tie in this matter. you did not understand why i brought her speed up. and once again. Does not matter. I am refering you all in the SBR to my question I wanted answered that you can't seem to give me at all.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Do you want the correct answer that is fact or do you want the assumption and thoughts answer?

The correct answer is that the people considered to be the best players in general believe that Peach shows less potential than DK and Pit, and that's all that matters in the creation of the tier list.

Whatever any Peach player has done so far has not been enough to change that fact.

What's the problem, here? The burden of changing those minds lies with people like you, and those people have yet to do so. Step it up.

 

[Kinzer]

Does the tier list not take into consideration tourney viability?

I mean I can see why Donkey Bong might be a better character than Peach, but... well... ya probably know what I'm gonna say here.

*hint, Buttrape by you know who*

 

[Red Arremer]

Does the tier list not take into consideration tourney viability?

I mean I can see why Donkey Bong might be a better character than Peach, but... well... ya probably know what I'm gonna say here.

*hint, Buttrape by you know who*

Yes, but as I already said, as far as I know, Dedede is pretty much Donkey Kong's only really really bad matchup, while Peach has 3 or 4 horrible matchups.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Does the tier list not take into consideration tourney viability?

I mean I can see why Donkey Bong might be a better character than Peach, but... well... ya probably know what I'm gonna say here.

*hint, Buttrape by you know who*

The fact that Donkey Kong gets utterly destroyed by King Dedede theoretically doesn't affect gameplay too much. Game 1 is double-blind, so statistically-speaking, it's far from guaranteed that picking Donkey Kong in Game 1 is an auto-loss. If you lose, your counterpick ensures that you avoid this terrible matchup if necessary, and if you win, it's in your best interest to switch, surely.

The idea is that as long as you hedge your bets when necessary, Donkey Kong can be used against a plethora of characters who are not all named King Dedede, and that is where his current placement comes from.

 

[Kinzer]

Yes, but as I already said, as far as I know, Dedede is pretty much Donkey Kong's only really really bad matchup, while Peach has 3 or 4 horrible matchups.

The fact that Donkey Kong gets utterly destroyed by King Dedede theoretically doesn't affect gameplay too much. Game 1 is double-blind, so statistically-speaking, it's far from guaranteed that picking Donkey Kong in Game 1 is an auto-loss. If you lose, your counterpick ensures that you avoid this terrible matchup if necessary, and if you win, it's in your best interest to switch, surely.

The idea is that as long as you hedge your bets when necessary, Donkey Kong can be used against a plethora of characters who are not all named King Dedede, and that is where his current placement comes from.

Mhm.

Cool, I was just wondering, I had a hunch it was.

Let me see here, D3 is probably Donkey Bong's only MU he really has to worry about, otherwise AFAIK he has good MUs all-around the whole cast... and MK... so that's a plus.

Peach...? Hrm... I dunno... Just because she doesn't have one auto-loss MU, doesn't mean she has problems...

Thanks fellas for the confirmation.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Thanks fellas for the confirmation.

No problem; always glad to help.

Also, on another note, I think that general mobility is necessary to be even a decent character in Singles. If I decided I was going to air-dodge and run away for eight minutes with Squirtle, what could a character like Ivysaur or Peach do about it? As such, it severely hurts their viability against anyone who can easily avoid them.

 

[Red Arremer]

Yea. Donkey Kong doesn't have all too much problems with projectile spammers due to his high priority, and despite having a few more disadvantegous matchups (Olimar comes to mind), he's all around a pretty good character.
In fact, it's awful how much Dedede's presence hurts Donkey Kong's position, without the standing infinite he'd be an extremely solid character.

I know of 3 horrible matchups for Peach at an instand, which are Snake, Marth and Meta Knight. They're not as bad as Dedede is for Donkey Kong, but it's still 3 extremely common characters she has a lot of trouble with.

 

[Dark.Pch]

No problem; always glad to help.

Also, on another note, I think that general mobility is necessary to be even a decent character in Singles. If I decided I was going to air-dodge and run away for eight minutes with Squirtle, what could a character like Ivysaur or Peach do about it? As such, it severely hurts their viability against anyone who can easily avoid them.

Smart use of projectiles, really with my character.

And Snake is Not a Horrible match up for Peach.

 

[deepseadiva]

Yea, Peach isn't a complete fail against "air campers" Reflex...

And Spade, Snake and Marth are solid 60:40s. Hell, nobody complains much about Marth anymore. Replace "horrible" with "difficult."

In the end, it's only MK that's in the way.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I say Peach goes even with Snake

No please wait, let me do it for you guys

"what are you stupid, we have tilts, can camp you, you can't kill us well and we can kill you easy. You are seriously out of wack and don't know what you are talking about"

Is that what people were gonna say? I wonder if people would listen and kinda see the idea on how it could/is even. Hmmm *rubs chin* I wonder how bias people can be with high tier and not wanna listen or take things into account. But this is just me assuming. unless I assume right?

For Now I leave it as 60-40 snake cause obvious this is all I am gonna hear and i have to fight top level snakes to make my point, which I got no problem with.

 

[Red Arremer]

lol. I used to play Bowser. Seriously, I'm not underestimating any character, except maybe for Pit (because I loathe him).

I'm by no means someone who only knows about High Tier characters.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

If we're talking at the highest level and potential (within the current metagame) and assuming the player is playign to win, Pit is not just above Peach but possibly A tier and very high A tier at that. There aren't many characters with a good answer to his arrow spamming, and there's no reason he can't do it for 7 minutes straight if he wants.

Editing to say I am talking in a possible distant future scenario in which some amazing Pit player hits the scene, not now, although I do think it is possible using current techniques and methods.