The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v2.0

[Vorguen]

Lucas can go from one side of Final Destination to the other from the bottom if he uses PK slide. He can also jump recover super high with the PK Fire glitch. Why is he so low on the tier list?

The other guy may have said it better, but if you want to know why simply put Lucas is not a great character.

He is a decent, well rounded character, but unfortunately in Brawl there must be something broken about your character for him to be at the top. Lucas has nothing to set him aside from the rest, and the grab-release combos on him are death.

Look at this

Meta Knight - broken on many aspects

Snake - Broken tilts, KO power, and explosives

Falco - Chaingrab and laser game

DDD - Chaingrab and gimping

G&W - Broken smashes and bucket (momentum cancel / oil spill)

Marth - Broken range

Diddy - Broken banana combos

Wario - Broken aerial mobility

ROB - Broken projectile camping



........you see a pattern here?

When you start to get to the bottom of high tier and basically all mid and low tier, you start to notice there are still good solid characters, but none that really stand out anymore.

 

[.Marik]

Link and Samus have amazing projectile defensive games. They are extremely underrated, same with Yoshi. Although Link I can understand being low, due to his laggy attacks and horrible recovery. But don't you think a dedicated Link main would be able to work around those limitatons, same with every other low-tiered character?

I mean... have you guys seen a really good Samus or Yoshi? They can definetly **** a common Snake or MetaKnight.

Yes, Vorguen, I see a pattern between those characters. >>

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Yoshi wouldn't **** a good MK (as the common ones are good ones. >_>), he would do alright against him. Better then a lot of characters the but the odds would still be against him. I've watched Bwett play, so don't say it's just because I haven't seen a good Yoshi.

Samus would be okay up to the point MK got up close. And then she gets slaughtered due to the lack of strong, quick up close attacks.

 

[Narigo1]

i think mario and ike should a bit higher
i don't believe CF is the worst character in the game
i do believe jigglypuff and ganondorf are the worst characters

 

[Frown]

Lucas can go from one side of Final Destination to the other from the bottom

More than half of the characters can do that.

lol @ brawl's gravity

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Even SBR-B members have admitted to not knowing too much about the supposed lower tiered characters, which is why everyone seems to argue about those. I mean, it's like that for pretty much any tier list.

Because they aren't important. T_T Sad but True. They'll get them right later.

Part of the issue is that pretty much none of the worst characters are as bad as they seem to people who aren't familiar with them. Heck, alot of them (ex: PT) are alot more dangerous than you'd think.

Unfortunately this is reinforced by the tier list. People who want to win will pick top tier. This leads to misconceptions about those characters.

I'm not TR4Qing here either. Like I said, They'll get them right EVENTUALLY. I'm not claiming that Low Tiers aren't placing high because people are flocking to high/top tiers. Just that they're misunderstood in comparison.


And I know you know this **** Tenki. I just felt like adding. lol

 

[Vorguen]

Low tiers generally lack anything that makes them very great characters. Actually so do a majority of mid tiers and some high tiers. It takes something exceptional in this game for them to be very good.

If you notice, I have never seen a game before where there were more complaints about "broken characters"

lol

 

[Red Arremer]

Thing is: Mario actually still is the most balanced character and is right in the middle.

Always was like it, and probably always will be. Now, with so many good and excellent characters in Brawl, the middle is shoved down into the lower part of the tier list.

 

[Vorguen]

Mario is a good balanced overall character.

Read above Spadefox, to make it in Brawl, you can't be balanced, you have to be broken. =P

 

[SSJ5Goku8932]

i think mario and ike should a bit higher
i don't believe CF is the worst character in the game
i do believe jigglypuff and ganondorf are the worst characters

Ike maybe, not sure about Mario. He justs bore me lol.

Bair to forced stand will make him rise MAYBE.

Not sure about them either, they bore me too XD.

 

[Kinzer]

I know for one thing to not underestimate it as it frequently messes me up when I play sonics online. Tiny bits of lag turn what would have been a powershielded hit into you getting hit. Putting wifi aside...

Running speed in brawl isn't all that great as people can still react to that. Plus, running limits you to only a few moves. Little mixing up and prediction is easier. So it's not something that should be solely relied upon.

...*giggles*

I'm sorry, it's just that Sonic has so many fakeouts from his running position, it's lulzy.

More than half of the characters can do that.

lol @ brawl's gravity

...

Sonic for Steak tier by that guy's logic. :D

Mario is a good balanced overall character.

You know, I always wondered what makes Mario so good. Sure he's doing okay, but I can't see him getting any higher so long as D3 is not banned. I would somebody to help me understand why they think mario should still go up anyway.

 

[Frown]

...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AtcdkDIp6g&feature=related

Plus Marth, and probably Dedede.

 

[Kinzer]

Yes, I know that's there.

So that just means everybody else is Steak tier.

Yes, even the mighty Link who can't recover can become a winner.

Hrm... let me see...

Well, since people have been talking a lot about the bottom tier, I kind of think the Captain should rise if not at least be even with the three other people who couls share the bottom of bot tier. It is really hard to say since Falcon is more balanced than the others in the spot, but say the King has some amazing stuff. (Thunderstorming *****)

 

[PKNintendo]

Tier list:

Win tier:

1. Meta (Meat) Knight (He's staying here.)

Top tier:

2. Snake (He's staying here to, maybe)

3. Game and Watch (Falco is above him in the current list, but I think he's sorta tied with Falco.)

4. Falco (Lazer games)

5. King DDD (Weight, projectiles, infinites/chaingrabs, range, aerials, grabs etc.)

6. Wario (A rather mobile character in the air, that fat slob, oh the irony. Also does alot of other things above average. Sucks about the infinites on him, but he's just so hard to grab!)

7. Diddy Kong (Banana games, aerial game, a great character)

8. Marth (May move higher, her sword's deadly)

High tier:

9. Olimar (Top if if wasn't for, you guessed it: The bad recovery.)

10. Kirby

11. Lucario

12. ROB ( A nice recovery, but his game feels a bit clunky, still a great character)

13. Ice Climbers (Probably top tier if it wasn't for easily killable Nana, strategies will soon be discovered to separate them even easier. Careful of their evil grab game...)

14. Donkey Kong (Vertical recovery= 0. Also horribly infinited by tourney common DDD.)

15. Zero Suit Samus (A tough to use but high reward character)

16. Pikachu (I'm not 100% sure on what so special about him, but still above average and has that nasty D throw thing)

17. Toon Link (I hate him as a character wise, but gameplay wise, he's good.

Middle Tier:

18. Pit (Day one I got Brawl, I thought he was the best. Boy was I wrong. He's sorta average sides from his decent recovery and good projectile game)

19. Wolf ( An odd style compared to the other two, but a good style too. Bleh recovery)

20. Luigi (An underrated character, but not too underrated. Fast and powerful killing moves along with aerials, terrible approach, infinited by DDD, Predictabily, and gimpability all hurt him.)

21. Peach (I sure miss her Melee counterpart...)

22. Zelda ( A character somewhat of extremities, surpassing Sheik and usable in this game. Gotta love Din's fire)

23. Bowser (He's not that bad, he's just so easy to combo...He has nice grab releases))

24. Fox (Fox seems rather good at first glance, but his problem is that he's usually OWNED by a certain move in some character's arsenal, taking his damage meter up high. Eg, Pikachu's D throw, Luigi's and Mario's Up tilt. A still usable character though)

25. Sheik (Speed, can't kill, gimping, can't kill, F tilt lock, can't kill...)

26. Mario (Unplayed and underrated, Mario is still middle tier, but not by much. Most of his game is below average asides from his gimping game, and with the auto sweet spot edge grabs and good recoveries in Brawl, that hurts him.)

27. Yoshi (Slighly underrated, Yoshi doesn't seem all that bad, but not nearly as good as some other characters. His top tier matchups are pretty nice, despite some people overrating is Meta Knight matchup due to his chaingrab on him.)

28. Ike ( A below average character one on one, but has few quick moves and easy to mess up recovery. Better start hoping for tripping Ike mains. He's pretty decent on teams though. At least he also has jabs and spacing, so he can manage.)

Steak Tier:

29. Sonic (The speedy hedgehog lacks killing, but his spring and spindash games make him an almost average character.)

Low tier:

30. Ness

31. Pokemon Trainer ( Reflex really gives me confidence in this character. Sucks about the stamina and shifting part though.)

32. Lucas( I dunno, I used to seondary him, I feel like i'm underrating him slightly, but everyone above is indeed better.)

Bottom Tier:

33. Samus (A train wreak from Melee, Samus is one I don't see much in, may drop below Link, no lower though. Averaged out to be the 2nd worst Smash character in all three games.)

34. Link (BAD RECOVERY. Also clunky and slow, but with a interesting projectile game that saves him a bit. Poor guy, he's averaged out to be the all time worst consistant smash character, low tier in all three games!)

35. Ganondorf (Slow, slow, slow. But has great power, and some decent tech stuff. Way better in Melee)

36. Jigglypuff (Went from a good puffball to a bad one. It even lost the headband . Few moves reedeem it, but it's aerial game can work wonders sometimes. Also annoying nerf of rest and sing is dead useless.) May move up slightly due to F-air, and can escape combos?

37. Captain Falcon (What has happen to our good captain?)



Go crazy flaming this I guess. Or use the proper term "constructive critisism" lol.

I think your underestimating Ness a bit much.

 

[phi1ny3]

You kinda underestimated at least a third of the list (marth's game is going up sorta like Ike's due to new expansion on the grab game, and G&W imo is going to fall like D3 due to everyone learning how to fight them much better.
Oh, and lucario's beast, kind of underrated imo by lots of players, but as an analytical person, I've seen a lot of potential and power in his properties (despite an incredibly underrated recovery).
Oh, and Ness should prolly be higher, and luigi lower just a teensy bit perhaps. I have a few other things, like the reason why pika is solid (good D3 counter, lots of good aerial and tilt, and Anther (lol he's a force behind the metagame)).

 

[:mad:]

Mario'll go up some day.
I sure hope so, I work too hard. He has plenty of potential, just nobody there to use him.
It's just "lol guys, let's go use snake".

 

[Lord Viper]

Mario'll go up some day.
I sure hope so, I work too hard. He has plenty of potential, just nobody there to use him.

☆ I'm starting to use him again since Olimar failed me again in a tourney. But I lost my super soaker skills a bit, I need to play more competive matches with Mario. ☆

 

[Yonder]

I think your underestimating Ness a bit much.

I had a feeling I was, but I wasn't sure if he's mid tier material, or above Sonic. You tell me, your much wiser about Ness than I am.

 

[hundreds of utilts]

this list looks legit. seems pretty accurate

and poor PT. though i'm pretty sure the lionshare of the blame for that lies with gimpasaur

 

[Red Arremer]

Eh, Ivysaur is not that bad. It's mainly the fatigue and the problem that neither of the pokemon is really overwhelmingly good, except maybe Squirtle.

Also, I approve of your nickname.

 

[SSJ5Goku8932]

What about Rock smash grabs .

 

[Vorguen]

Eh, Ivysaur is not that bad. It's mainly the fatigue and the problem that neither of the pokemon is really overwhelmingly good, except maybe Squirtle.

Also, I approve of your nickname.

Squirtle is basically a nerfed Mario. If he was that good Mario would be even higher on the tier list.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Squirtle is basically a nerfed Mario. If he was that good Mario would be even higher on the tier list.

I believe you mean Wario, good sir.

Either that, or you mean, "a BUFFED Mario."

 

[Vorguen]

I meant that Squirtle is very similiar to Mario but Mario is better.

They have similiar range and power, they both pwn in the air. However Mario has a projectile and a reflector which is also a very good gimping tool, and most of Squirtle's B moves are really terrible.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I meant that Squirtle is very similiar to Mario but Mario is better.

They have similiar range and power, they both pwn in the air. However Mario has a projectile and a reflector which is also a very good gimping tool, and most of Squirtle's B moves are really terrible.

I know what you mean. I just don't agree with it. Wario is closer to Squirtle than Mario.

Mario doesn't do extremely well in the air unless he's fighting a big character. He's good, sure, but not Squirtle-good. His aerial mobility just isn't as good, and outside of B-Air (which is about the same), Mario is outranged.

Mario's projectile is mediocre, and the Cape is nice, albeit a bit situational. Water Gun is better than FLUDD, because Squirtle can still move incredibly well in the air while charging/firing. Up-B is about the same in usefulness, really.

Mario has a better ground game, but Squirtle has a better air game, where it (usually) counts.

 

[TheTantalus]

After looking this tier list over again, I'd say the top of it looks mostly correct, it's the middle and bottom that is screwed up. I think it should go back to the named tiers, since I don't really think there are 9 tiers. That's almost pointless. It should look like this:

Star Tier

Metaknight
Snake

Top Tier

Falco
King Dedede
Olimar
Diddy
Marth
Kirby
Wario
Ice Climbers (until their grab gets banned)

High Tier

Mr. Game & Watch
Zero Suit Samus
R.O.B.
Donkey Kong
Lucario
Peach

Mid Tier

Pikachu
Fox
Pit
Wolf
Toon Link
Zelda
Luigi
Mario
Bowser
Ike

Low Tier

Sheik
Jigglypuff
Poke Trainer
Ness
Lucas
Sonic
Yoshi
Samus

Bottom Tier

Captain Falcon
Ganondorf
Link

 

[Kinzer]

I do kind of prefer the named tiers TBH.

Do you honestly see anybody on this forum consistently referring to it as something say as... oh I dunno, "G tier tourneys" or "SS tier" besides the usual joke of the S.S. MetaKnight and all that jazz?

 

[.Marik]

Yoshi wouldn't **** a good MK (as the common ones are good ones. >_>), he would do alright against him. Better then a lot of characters the but the odds would still be against him.

Yes, he will always be at a disadvantage, and the match will be generally harder for him to win, but it's possible.

Exceptional Yoshi's will beat average MetaKnight's.

Exceptional Yoshi's versus a exceptional MetaKnight will probably be heavily in MetaKnight's favour.

But he's broken in every aspect possible. >_>

 

[hundreds of utilts]

Eh, Ivysaur is not that bad. It's mainly the fatigue and the problem that neither of the pokemon is really overwhelmingly good, except maybe Squirtle.

Also, I approve of your nickname.

yeah, though i always seem to fare dramatically worse with ivy than the other two...

but yeah, given a choice i'd pick squirtle over mario any day. the only thing i see mario having over squirtle would be better smashes maybe

 

[Vorguen]

Opinion tiers FTL. Olimar is definitely not that high.


@ hundreds of u-tilts


Reflector? Projectile? Spike?

-.-

 

[DanGR]

Star Tier

Metaknight
Snake

Top Tier

Falco
King Dedede
Olimar
[...]

What makes you think Oli will rise that much?

 

[Vorguen]

Oli is very good, but he has pretty blatant weaknesses. One of the most exploitable recoveries in the game, very little priority, and not to mention his 45 degree angle blindspots. He's fine on High tier.

 

[Frown]

G&W dsmash near the edge + Olimar + G&W edgehog = Olimar fail

 

[DanGR]

G&W dsmash near the edge + Olimar + G&W edgehog = Olimar fail

He doesn't even have to edgehog. He can just spam dtilt and Olimar can't pull up on the tether.

 

[.Marik]

Oli is very good, but he has pretty blatant weaknesses. One of the most exploitable recoveries in the game, very little priority, and not to mention his 45 degree angle blindspots. He's fine on High tier.

I agree. Olimar is not rising any time soon.

Throw, + grabbing ledge = Olimar fail.

 

[Vorguen]

Olimar might have the most broken grab in the game (only contender might be DDD?) but his grab game is not as good as many other characters (DDD again comes to mind, Falco, Snake, etc).

He's a good solid character but he's probably in the right spot already.

 

[Collective of Bears]

Olimar might have the most broken grab in the game (only contender might be DDD?) but his grab game is not as good as many other characters (DDD again comes to mind, Falco, Snake, etc).

He's a good solid character but he's probably in the right spot already.

If only he didn't have that god-awful recovery...

 

[brinboy789]

Yes, he will always be at a disadvantage, and the match will be generally harder for him to win, but it's possible.

Exceptional Yoshi's will beat average MetaKnight's.

Exceptional Yoshi's versus a exceptional MetaKnight will probably be heavily in MetaKnight's favour.

But he's broken in every aspect possible. >_>

wasnt it agreed that the MK:yoshi matchup was 55:45? thats not heavily at all. thats barely a soft counter

 

[Kinzer]

IIRC the matchup thread had it as 6:4.

...teehee...

 

[Vorguen]

Even 6:4 is still a soft counter. Things don't get rough until about 65:35 / 70:30