The Official Jigglypuff Video Archive

scrub_nugget

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 19, 2012
Messages
102
Location
Tyler, TX
What I mean is, it's only GARUNTEED if they trip, otherwise they can SDI out I think.

You're right though, I played a bit today, and even though utilt is like 4 frames faster than Fsmash, I found it much less situational.
Though Fsmash is still nice IMO, it kills pretty early, and it's range is longer than puffs body.

:phone:
 

Grim Tuesday

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
13,443
Location
Adelaide, South Australia, AUS
I use Fsmash a lot against characters who are bad at landing when they are facing away from me (Marth is a prime example).

Other than that, I only use it for hard reads.

Up Smash I use the same way as Fsmash except when I am under someone instead of behind them. Also for hard-reads at the ledge.

Down Smash is the fastest thing Puff can do from the ground that isn't punishable on hit, a lot of the time, so I use it mostly for its speed and low hitbox.

Down tilt is practically a smash and I use it for ducking under aerials or projectiles while attacking.

And that's my story.
 

[FBC] Papa Mink

Brawl Backroom Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2010
Messages
12,918
Location
Orlando, FL
NNID
PapaMink
What I mean is, it's only GARUNTEED if they trip, otherwise they can SDI out I think.

You're right though, I played a bit today, and even though utilt is like 4 frames faster than Fsmash, I found it much less situational.
Though Fsmash is still nice IMO, it kills pretty early, and it's range is longer than puffs body.

:phone:
4 frames faster?

You can do 2 or 3 utilts in the time of ONE fsmash lmao
and no.
the range is ***.

I use Fsmash a lot against characters who are bad at landing when they are facing away from me (Marth is a prime example).

Other than that, I only use it for hard reads.

Up Smash I use the same way as Fsmash except when I am under someone instead of behind them. Also for hard-reads at the ledge.

Down Smash is the fastest thing Puff can do from the ground that isn't punishable on hit, a lot of the time, so I use it mostly for its speed and low hitbox.

Down tilt is practically a smash and I use it for ducking under aerials or projectiles while attacking.

And that's my story.
If i use a smash....

i don't use a smash.
 

Grim Tuesday

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
13,443
Location
Adelaide, South Australia, AUS
Grim Tuesday (Jigglypuff) vs. Apollo (Sheik) - Tournament Games 1 & 2

Johns: Just wasn't playing up to scratch, this was my first srs set of the day. I ran out of jumps, drowned (no joke, got distracted by how cute Puff's swimming animation is lol) and tripped into my death before giving up.

Grim Tuesday (Jigglypuff) vs. Btmans (Toon Link) - $2 MM Games 1 & 2

Btmans isn't as good as Allens and Apollo, so I played super aggressive in this set :3

Grim Tuesday (Jigglypuff) vs. Allens (Donkey Kong) - $2 MM Games 1 & 2

This is supposed to be pretty hard for Puff, so I hope this shows my take on the MU, at least. Played a lot better game 1 than 2. I also wrote a massive second-by-second analysis for game 1 which REALLY helped me notice some of my problems. Here it is, for the curious (time notes aren't exact):

Grim (Jigglypuff) vs. Allen (Donkey Kong) Second-by-Second Analysis
0-13 - Try to mostly face away (for bairs) while dancing.
0:15 - Good aggression.
0:17-0:20 - Technical errors in not "pivot" jumping (jump while facing away for bairs)
0:24 - Go for guaranteed punishes instead of hard read ones
0:27 - Pound had no chance of hitting, bair instead
0:28 - Good bair shielding
0:29 - Pounded too close, technical error in not doing a rising pound
0:38 - DK's utilt is too fast for that bait
0:46 - Out-played, be smarter.
0:50 - Pounded too close
0:55 - Pound was too telegraphed, despite good spacing.
0:55 - Never approach after shielded aerial/pound without momentum, lucky it wasn't punished hard
0:59 - Air dodge approach is always bad unless crossed-up while I have momentum

1:02 - Too slow an option, lucky it worked
1:04 - DK falls too fast for that frame trap
1:06 - Good bait
1:07 - Good, safe pressure
1:09 - Technical error (should've been a pivot grab)
1:11 - Bair is too slow out of shield, nair instead, lucky it didn't get punished
1:14-1:18 - Good pressure/reads
1:19 - DK falls too fast for that frame trap
1:20 - Good pressure
1:23 - Nice Rest OoS attempt, unlucky shield poke ruined it :(
1:33 - Air dodge approach again >_>
1:40 - Pound was obvious, lucky it traded
1:47 - Concentration lapse
1:52 - Dair is not safe for ledge pressure while facing that away
1:54 - Pound is too slow
1:55-1:57 - Good pressure
1:58 - Probably too risky, but good abuse of momentum
1:59-2:00 - Poor option choices/technical errors (don't remember)

2:04 - Good protection to regain momentum
2:05-2:11 - Perfect baiting
2:12 - Bair timing was too obvious, mix-up when dancing for a long time!
2:16 - Concentration lapse
2:17 - Too low percent for a bair combo
2:23 - Unsafe air dodge, too aggressive!
2:24 - Risky tomahawk without momentum, lucky it worked, go for the guaranteed instead
2:28 - Frame trap doesn't work.
2:32 - Too aggressive with dair!
2:34 - Pound is too slow, used it too close
2:36 - Unlucky that it traded
2:39 - Out-played
2:43 - Retreat after hitting in that situation, not enough stun to combo!
2:50 - Technical error.
2:53 - Fair wasn't safe
2:58 - Jab > Grab, yay!
2:59-3:03 - Dancing too far away to cover every ledge option

3:05 - Risky, but worthwhile burst of aggression
3:14 - Should've gone for the platform or back to the ledge to refresh jumps/change direction safely
3:16&3:17 - Outplayed
3:19 - Air dodge approach... STOP IT!!!
3:20 - Too low % to combo
3:23 - Forgot about DK's SH uair option
3:26 - Obvious pound
3:33 - Good choice with pivot grab, unlucky it didn't work
3:34 - Risky Pound, lucky it worked
3:35 - Combo doesn't work on DK
3:43 - Rest wouldn't have KO'd, bad choice
3:47-3:49 - Good pressure
3:50 - Ground Pound is good against people who approach on the ground in that situation, so not DK
3:57 - Notice rest opportunities
3:59 - Bair instead of fair would've led to pressure and possibly a KO

4:02 - Out-played
4:03 - Risky, but good use of momentum
4:07 - Too deep
4:14 - Outplayed, keep in mind the low cooldown on giant punch
4:23 - Even if he rolled, the fsmash wouldn't have hit, do guaranteed punishes instead!
4:25-4:28 - Keep him afraid of dair > rest, good momentum gaining
4:31 - Roll was a technical error
4:34 - Out-played
4:44 - Concentration lapse = No DI

SUMMARY:
-Work on technical ability (don't mess up aerial pivots, etc...)
-Don't overuse Pound, it often gets out-sped or punished on shield
-Learn when baits/strings will work and when they won't
-Air dodge approaching doesn't work without momentum and/or a cross-up
-Always concentrate!
 
Joined
Sep 7, 2006
Messages
1,243
Location
WilkesBarre-Scranton, PA/State College, PA
3DS FC
0963-1716-1141
Grim:

First match: You got legitimately outplayed here. It seems whatever mindgames you attempt (whatever they may be, I only saw one or two attempted dair mindgames here, and that stuff gets VERY predictable) just weren't able to handle a fast character like sheik. You also need to work on you timing with your aerials, because you had reads that you mistimed the punish on.

Second match: GRAB THE TENTS, WE'RE GOING CAMPING!!! :urg: Absolutely hate how boring this matchup is. That being said, you handled this guy pretty well the first round. He got hit by dair rest without a fight though, so I have to question the TL's knowledge on the matchup (lol as if people actually know the puff matchup). Second round that same predictability from the first match came back. You do the same things the same way, and you're getting read hard. It seems you still have the airdodge to the ground habit, try to get rid of that.

Third match:
I didn't know people actually had a hard time with this matchup! I actually found DK to be easier than Diddy because of his predictability. Sure he has range, but he's very easy to read. That being said, good job, but you still suffered in this matchup because of your airdodges and your predictability.


In short: Needs more whimsy.


EDIT: The ego comes with the character. Puffs are similar to Peaches, once we think we understand how to use our character, we think we're the best and everybody else is full of ****. XD
 

Grim Tuesday

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
13,443
Location
Adelaide, South Australia, AUS
My list of things to fix before the next tourney (this coming Monday) after watching those videos is:
-Fix technical errors (small mistakes, but mostly messing up the turn-around on mid-air jumps).
-Break bad habit: Air-dodging to the ground when it is unsafe.
-Don't overuse Pound offensively, it gets predictable quickly.

And to a lesser extent:
-Use faster moves in place of Pound sometimes.
-Learn which situations different strings and frame traps work (match-up and percentage).
-Break bad habit: Approaching after a shielded aerial.
-Go for guaranteed punishes instead of hard reads with Smashes/Pound/etc... This includes doing nair out of shield instead of bair/fair.

Most of these mistakes just seem to be coming from lapses in concentration/playing on auto-pilot without momentum, so I should hopefully be able to fix 'em up and get some more vids to you guys soon :D

Anything else you think I should also work on?

EDIT: I watched a video of you. You're really good, haha, at least compared to most of the people here. Get more videos up so I can learn stuff!
 
Joined
Sep 7, 2006
Messages
1,243
Location
WilkesBarre-Scranton, PA/State College, PA
3DS FC
0963-1716-1141
Thanks! :D It's nice to hear somebody appreciating my work instead of giving me hell for using this character!


I don't really know what else to suggest other than never stop practicing your spacing and mindgames. You can never stop thinking of ways to screw with people with Puff!
 

SoulPech

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
4,387
Location
Columbus/ NW Ohio
You do have some good basics and baits that Puff should have. My main gripes are that you air dodged too much, I didn't see any bair T_T, and it seemed like you were just looking dair + rest only a way to kill. If you were up against other MKs, your nair just gets completely stuffed and most MKs can just punish an air dodge with pretty much whatever the hell they way. If you use your bair, you at least have a chance to trade or get priority. FYI, fresh, full hit Fair kills MK at like 108%. I'm hoping to get some videos of me soon so I can upload them.
 

Grim Tuesday

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
13,443
Location
Adelaide, South Australia, AUS
I only played like that because I knew it would work against DoMo.

If you watch how I played at the start of the match (while we were both spacing and not hitting each other) that is how I'd play against a more experienced MK - very evasive.

EDIT: Oh, and Dair is just a really amazing, under-utilized spacing move in general imo. Most of my dairs weren't KO attempts.

This reminds me of a cool Jigglypuff quirk; people are very afraid of dair at Rest KO %. Even if they know to SDI it, if you can follow the SDI and mind-game into a rest any way, people will be scared. Once you get 'em scared, they shield a lot more - i.e. grab > fair frame-trap opportunities.
 

Grim Tuesday

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
13,443
Location
Adelaide, South Australia, AUS
Raptor: Space with bair, not fair. Stop running towards MK so much it limits your options massively (thankfully, your opponent sucked), don't use Rollout just as a random attack out of the blue (bad opponent, again), learn to punish harder (incorporate dair), improve your general spacing (so many missed Pounds), loved the Rest at the end of the first match.
 

SoulPech

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
4,387
Location
Columbus/ NW Ohio
Alrighty. Critique time! To start off, I will say your best videos were the last 3.

Your main role in doubles is to hold stocks for the other person. Your partner should be a character that can take the heat on a 2 v 1 situation. Some characters can be Fox, Lucario, Olimar, MK, etc. My partner is Fox because he can take on 2 people and we've worked out grab and throw combos that can combo into my rest or into his usmash for early kills.

What I did like:

1) The pressure for getting back onstage. When someone was off stage, you threw out some bairs, nairs, and fairs to keep them off. keep in mind if you get solid hits on them before getting back on, that can rack like 30% of dmg.

2) The way you held stocks. I only saw this for the last 3 vids, but you held the stocks nicely. You floated around the opponent, threw them off, and kept alive.


What I did not like:

1) Rollout getting back onstage. I saw this towards the first few vids where you were using rollout to get onto the stage. The main issue with rollout that it's easily punishable if someone were to well time an attack. Even then, someone can punish with little effort, just like when Zelda did in one of the vids. Not to mention, you risk to chance to kill your teammate.

2) Aerial Spacing. The aerials weren't spaced properly most of the time. The best move to just throw out is bair primarily because it comes out rather quick and cooldown is also rather quick. Also, it gives a safer way to retreat so you don't get punish.



What to improve:

1) Foward Air. This move is one of Puff's primary kill moves. IMO, you should throw this move out all the time; it should be preserved when you make the kill on the opponent. Often times, this move kills most of the cast when they're at 100%. If you do come across that you've used this move too much, then you have to compensate by throwing out other moves, like bair, nair, etc.

2) Down Air. Either I didn't see this move or it wasn't used often. This is an amazing move to use in team battle, especially when to team up on another opponent. You can Dair and follow it up with a grab. you can down grab, which gives your teammate the time to swing over and she throws, your teammate can punish...just an example.

3) More Pound. This is Puff's safest move when it comes to mobility or getting back onstage. It can be a shield poke, takes away half of the opponents shield, it does moderate damage, and it can combo into uair (On the delay hit, not the initial hit). Even then, I would do a rising pound or downward pound.

Hope this helps!
 

Grim Tuesday

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
13,443
Location
Adelaide, South Australia, AUS
DISCLAIMER: I don't care about your reasons for choosing the options you did, pressure johns, etc..., I'm merely analyzing the match as I see it.

DETTADEUS VS. LALO:
0:04 - Should've glided towards him to seize center stage as soon as you saw him retreat + banana toss.
0:07 - Technical error.
0:09 - Good choice of ledge-hop dair. Remember, if you had a little more time you could've drifted to his other side and bair'd him, probably getting a higher reward.
0:10 - Should've baired/naired his shield afterwards rather than air dodging
0:11 - You had Diddy in shield without a banana, so short hop nair or dair would've covered all of his options (rather than the full-hop bair you opted for).
0:12 - If you threw the banana straight away instead of rolling, you would've had a guaranteed hit.
0:13 -

0:14 - Flopped read; throwing the banana up would've got him.
0:15 - Rising Uair would've hit Detta and grabbed the banana
0:16 - Puff's banana throw is too slow to try and pressure like that: if detta was more comfortable he could've got a pretty solid punish on you here.
0:17 - Unsafe air dodge at that height/angle + predictable direction could've got you punished
0:18 - Another read "error". Detta was clearly afraid of you, so you could've thrown the banana as soon as you landed rather than shielding his possible banana throw
0:19 - Even if the banana didn't hit; shielding would've got you grabbed: poor choice.
0:20 - Good choice with the nair; I would've gone for something more guaranteed, but it worked so I can't criticize
0:21 - Turn-around > approaching SH dair would've been a guaranteed grab if you were fast. The bair was blegh: You were sooo close to being caught in lag in Diddy's punish range
0:22 - Deta could've punished this roll with relative ease, but there wasn't much you could do in that situation and it worked, so gg
0:23 - You are getting too greedy in this position. It's kinda deceptive because your brain goes "Oh, I can *just* hit him with a SH bair, so my spacing is perfect!", but it is waaaayyy too slow, and that's why you got punished.
0:24 - Hit by a banana, take to the skies! One of Puff's advantages is that she can get out of situations like that with ease; gotta abuse it. Giving up stage control completely might feel instinctively "wrong", but it's very important. Detta didn't pressure you as hard as he could've, so you got out anyway.
0:25 - Air dodging into the banana would've been safe and given you a positional advantage against him (he was facing away, you had a banana, and that height + distance), rather than your fair that missed.
0:25 - After you missed the fair, you went after the banana with a second jump despite being in a PERFECT position to destroy Detta: He threw the banana below you and was clearly going for it, you could've hit him with anything.
0:28 - Yuuucckkk, you air dodged into him. If you fair'd, it would've been guaranteed at that angle/range.
0:29 - There was pretty much NO WAY Detta would be hit by that fair, barring a technical error. You don't jump when people are that close to you + spot-dodge and all his rolls would've avoided it. It really felt like a mechanical decision, and when you have someone in a situation where there options are limited that's when you DON'T want to be on auto-pilot.
0:29 - I think you could've baired here and weaved away at the last second to pick up one banana and avoid the other; but don't hold me by that. This was just unfortunate, you took a risk and got the short end of the stick.
0:30 - Grabbing the ledge here would've got you a free invincible-aerial punish, and a banana.
0:31 - Try to avoid pounding into the ledge except when necessary; just a good habit to have.
0:32 - Should chill on the ledge for a second. Looking at momentum; if Detta was more confident in general (which will come as he learns the MU), he would've thrown his nana straight away and hit you out of your ledge-hop. Waiting would've countered that.

ASIDE: I'm gonna tell you what to do assuming your opponent was doing the right thing; because it is more objective and less based on habits and ****

0:33 - If Detta threw a nana your way instead of retreating, he would've got a punish because you were too willing to incapacitate yourself in Diddy's punish range. Please tell him to be more aggressive, it'll help you both improve.
0:33 - Roll should be a last resort with Puff, this could've been punished, probably should've just jumped back to grab the Nana.
0:35 - Short hop > banana throw would've nailed him.
0:36 - Nuuuu, can't approach at this range for reasons I explained before (also try to turn around before approaching because bair > fair).
0:37 - Hehe, Detta could've got Nana > Fair here, be happy :3
0:37 - This is a problem A LOT of people have: Being too greedy when it comes to re-claiming momentum. It caused you to fair here, which got you punished, when there was no harm in just chilling for a second (perhaps even throwing out a dair to cover yourself, if you wanted)
0:42 - Again, don't pound to the ledge.
0:43 - I think if he shielded, you would've got ****ed up. So you could've done something safer (like dropping the banana from above and getting behind him), but you got the read so whatever
0:44 - Another approach at this range. Also, face-away and bair approach!

ASIDE #2: Bair and fair are almost identical range and speed wise, so why is bair better? The tip of bair is strong, while the tip of fair is weak (and therefore, more easily punished on hit and on shield) which means that bair's range is effectively better. On top of this, you don't want to stale fair but you do want to stale bair, so...

0:45 - Should've grabbed, rather than nair (way faster, harder punish).
0:47 - This was a good bair. It got sort-of read/you got unlucky/whatever, but it was spaced as safely as it could've been and wasn't "predictable".
0:50 - You forward smashed a banana. Okay.
0:51 - Should've just stood up in place, you forfeited your positional advantage.
0:52 - Approaching at this range is going to get you destroyed by more confident players, dawg. Get Detta to work on punishing it, and work on not ever doing it yourself :p
0:55 - After the fair, you lost your chance at a follow-up. Fast-fall uair would've given you the potential follow-up.
0:57 to 1:00 - Good nair, good bair. You covered his options very well here. I think the last bair you did could've been countered though, uair would've been a safer option.
1:03 - Too high to guard the ledge.
1:05 - Fast-fall Uair would've been safer on shield, and let you dip under him to get the follow-up.
1:06 - There was pretty much no way this bair would hit.
1:07 - Jigglypuff's run on the Smashville platform is hilarious.
1:08 - Rising fair would've frame-trapped Detta.
1:09 - Should've short-hopped the bair, that air dodge was predictable and he would've been hit by it
1:10 - Super slow reaction time, or super poor decision making? o_O
1:12 - Good choice of Utilt, shame it didn't work out. Ftilt would've worked in this situation (I'm a strong advocate of ftilt w/ Puff), opting to do a ground move was a really good decision though!
1:13 - This was a perfect position to weave out slightly and Pound back in. You are landing next to Diddy too often (and not getting punished enough for it either :p)
1:14 - Short hop throw so you can avoid his Nana and get more precision/distance!
1:15 - If you were facing away you could've safely bair'd him here as he ran in.
1:16 - Could've directly punished his roll with a boost grab (I don't boost grab, just throwing this out there :p). Could've had a less guaranteed punish with approaching SH dair
1:16 - Stop full-hopping your approaches please :3 If you were worried about the nana, don't be, you would've grabbed it.
1:17 - Good nair.
1:18 - Would've been a great Pound if it were short-hopped - I think he could've shielded the one you did because you had to wait and fall slightly.
1:20 - Silly nair, hehe.
1:21 - Gooooood spacing and coverage
1:23 - Grab the ledge when edge-guarding Diddy with that timing, invincible aerials ftw
1:29 - Full hop into Diddy while you are facing each other is, surprisingly, never a good idea. Space dem bairs, sister!
1:30 - SH Dair OoS would've covered all his options. Also stop full-hopping, you're taking to the air at all the wrong moments :p It's making your timing for everything very strict when it doesn't need to be
1:31 - See, short hop throw would've won you this encounter.
1:35 - Detta could've faired this. Don't get too confident with your Pounds.
1:36 - You hit the ground; turn around!
1:37 - Could've frame-trapped with aerials her, but your option worked too.
1:37 - ...Oooor, it would've if you pivot-grabbed :3 Never forget grab, it is your best close-range ground option 9 times out of 10!
1:38 - Lol it worked anyway, stop messing with me
1:40 - Dthrow is best used when it will pop the opponent onto a platform, you should've fthrow'd to get the perfect diagonal traps that Puff wants.
1:42 - Unlucky, should've gone for Diddy instead of the Nana I suppose.
1:43 - Gah, calm down with that fair you'll poke someone's eye out. Fair covered very few of his options there; you probably should've just waited for him to move and then punished him.
1:45 - Rising air dodge OoS to catch Nanas safely + get out of pressure.
1:46 - Sexy Pound, good choice.
1:46 - Don't be afraid of bair's landing lag; this was a frame trap that you missed.
1:47 - Unsafe AD to the ground, should've just dropped completely vertically and bair'd: would've covered everything.
1:48 - You could've read this roll. Also, short hop the nairrrrrr
1:49 - If you fair'd back onto the stage instead of grabbing the ledge, you would've got the nana.
1:51 - Short. Hop. Throw.
1:52 - You had enough time to react to his roll with a grab.
1:54 - Good fair.
1:56 - Sacrificing the momentum you had and letting Detta pull another banana was not worth getting that banana back.
1:58 - Waaayyy, too close and predictable movement. Weave more.
2:01 - Shoulda dropped it.
2:02 - Good boy.
2:02 - Simple mis-space, could've got you grabbed though.
2:03 - I guarantee he wouldn't have predicted you rolling behind him.
2:06 - Don't let me see you ever recovering with Rollout again. ESPECIALLY against Diddy.
2:10 - That jump ****ed you up. You need to remember that you don't need to directly hit people, they will fall onto your attacks if you space and time correctly.
2:11 - Unfortunate mis-space.
2:17 - You air-dodged into him :C
2:19 - I cringed when that bair didn't hit, tough break :(
2:20 - GRAB (also, you full-hopped again).
2:21 - Good choice going for the nana, would've been even more seamless if you short-hopped.
2:22 - Rolling is a last resort. Jump OoS.
2:23 - If you grabbed it with Z, you could've covered all of his options and got a guaranteed hard punish. Rest, even.
2:24 - You gave up all your pressure when you rolled back.
2:25 - Short hop throw.
2:26 - Dair was a beautiful choice, you could've rested, though.
2:27 - Substitute your rolls with short hops, seriously, it's gross ;)
2:28 to 2:31 - Good dair usage (that wasn't sarcasm).

If you want me to do the last stock, I will, but this seemed like enough info.
 

dettadeus

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 13, 2010
Messages
1,954
Location
drowning in pixels
That's a big help, thanks a bunch!

You can do the last stock if you want, but for the first like 15-20 seconds of it I was fishing for landing Uair > SH Rest because I was two stocks ahead and wanted to troll a bit (I turned to him and said "you wanna know something dumb Jiggs can do?" and a friend of mine said "Oh you're going for Uair > Rest aren't you" and I was like "Yup"). I feel like I played pretty well besides that (and besides a missed rest OoS on his Fsmash because I didn't realize how much shieldpush it had + him leaning forward meant he moved back during cooldown).
But I did get a nice kill.

Also every Usmash I did in that set was a mis-input. I don't really remember what I would've been trying to input (probably a SH something) but I don't use U-smash like, at all.
 
Top