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The Official Ike Video Critique Thread

Blubolouis

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I get you when you talk about SH airdodge, I could've use them as mix-ups a bit more often.
However I didn't notice a lot of bad spotdodges; actually I don't see a lot of spotdodges at all o.o
 

Teh Brettster

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And every time you spot dodged, you got hit by a projectile or Nair.

Anyway, SH air dodge isn't even just for mix-up but for a good way to get closer to TL.

I also recommend trying a slightly less grounded approach in general because you'll be using dash all over the place. I personally don't like using dash much in this match-up because you can't shield during the dash animation. This makes it difficult to get in without eating projectiles and Zair.
 

Heartstring

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Well, I looked at the vids, and got a few pointers for you.

-Your spacing with Nair and Fair are not too sharp. There were a lot of times where you did a Nair/Fair and you got shieldgrabbed for it. That shouldnt really happen to ike often. Try to teach yourself to space your aerials better and it will give you very good results.

-Your jab-cancelling was a bit slow. Against DK it doesn't matter so much, but against faster/lighter characters it will cost you. Go into training mode and practise jab-cancelling untll you're almost perfect at it.

-In game 1, two of your stocks came from being thrown against the stage when you could have lived. 2nd stock you were super high % so it didnt matter. but 1st stock you were at a low % and you should have teched it. Be ready to tech in situations like that (or at least, DI)

-when it came to punishing attacks, You could have done much more. there were times when you had a free hit (enough time for a slower, stronger punish) and instead used Nair (or didnt punish at all!) work on recognising when you can land a free hit and do it.

Pretty much all of this just boils down to practising and getting more familiar with the character though.

Also, what was the name of the song in game1?
 
D

Deleted member 189823

Guest
Oh yeah, I did get punished a ton by my N-Airs. Is it possible to get them unpunished if spaced right? I didn't know it was a spacing move, I use it more for follow-ups and do most of my damage from that. At the moment, I've been spacing F-Airs alot better (from my performance two days ago and yesterday).
As for jab cancelling- Yeah, I've been wondering how to do it like people like San who seem to do it really quick. I also seem to get punished by jab cancelling at times when it gets shielded.
 

Heartstring

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To be honest, With ike you want to space almost everything REALLY well. If you space Nair perfectly, Even OLIMAR can't punish you! It's got surprisingly good range with low landing lag so it's worth learning the spacing for it.

As for jab cancelling. It's all just practise, The timing is different when you hit someone or miss someone (hitstun) so practise on a training dummy. Its also worth teaching yourself the timing for: Jab>Utilt, Jab>Dtilt and Jab>Bair. but that comes after getting normal jab cancelling down
 
D

Deleted member 189823

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How do I Jab Cancel to B-Air? I feel that would solve some issues when it comes to KO's. Not that I have much trouble getting the KO, but it'll come much easier if I am able to get a B-Air out of it. And are those avoidable or secured?
 

Heartstring

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Jab cancel to Bair is kinda difficult. You have to do Jab (A), then cancel it (down), then turn around (back) and then jump (Y) and then Bair (Back+A)
If you can learn to do it consistently, it will be great for you
 
D

Deleted member 189823

Guest
...I thought I've answered this, but it seems I didn't.
Anyhow, the name of the song of Game 1 is "When they come for me", by Linkin Park.

I'd also like to know more about Jab cancel to B-Air. That thing could net me some really surprising and early kills at the edge (suddenly killing Snake feels SO much easier). I've already learned how to Jab Cancel consistently. (: I did pretty well at a tournament going Ike against a really campy Lucario.
 

Heartstring

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I dunno man, There isn't really anything else to say about it. Use it when you think it will work, it's not guaranteed by any means, same deal as Jab>Utilt
 

Teh Brettster

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I argue it's nearly useless next to Jab-Utilt. Not a meaty hitbox (have to get it just right), harder perform at a frame-efficient speed, only hits high (most Jab-Utilt hits on a much lower part of the hitbox than the apex).
It just doesn't seem to work until someone lets you do it to them.

But that IS just me.
 

Ussi

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Jab bair hits before jab utilt when you jab an aerial foe (utilt takes too long to go up) that and retreating bair is safer than utilt
 

Heartstring

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It's definetely harder to pull off than Jab>Utilt, But as Ussi said, It's safer and has more horizontal range.
Also, I feel the opponent has to let you land Jab Utilt too, Just because they have to DI it badly
 

Heartstring

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well yeah, I use Utilt over Bair in most situations. But thats because I tend to mess up Jab>Bair when doing it under pressure
 

Starphoenix

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I'd like critique on these, please:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1nzSpsXMPA&list=UUDZfe4ESZxxMNBWNLeACPg&index=1 (vs. :snake: )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBuw-GbEjb0&list=UUDZfe4ESZxxMNBWWNLeACPg&index=4 (vs. :rob: )

Personally I think Ike is one of my best options reguarding my characters, so I''m planning on using him as a CP to Snake.
Well, I'm not sure how much I can help you since I'm not a regular around these parts, but I will give it my best to help out since Ike is one of my main characters I frequently use.

In the R.O.B video: I noticed a point from :30-:32 where R.O.B used his up special to recover back to the stage, and you kind of stood there waiting for him to get back on stage. You probably could have been a little more aggressive aerially if you had wanted too by going for a meteor smash or a bair. You would have had a little bit of wiggle room to gamble since the inline on the bottom of Battlefield's stage would have allowed Aether to slide into the ledge. But that is one observation I made about your playstyle is you don't seem to make much use of Ike's aerial attacks. I can tell that had a lot to do with the fact that you were shielding so you could approach R.O.B in order to follow up with an attack, but you might want to consider using Ike's nair to give you a little bit of a buffer to attack and follow up. From experience that has been an effective way to not only do some damage but set up for another attack when a character is playing aggressively. It's one of Ike's faster moves, and when done correctly you can go straight into Ike's standard A combo.

In the Snake video: I think you started out with a good strategy trying to keep Snake near the edge by grabbing him and tossing him off. Snake's very vulnerable when he is forced to use his aerial recovery, but a couple of times you didn't capitalize on a couple of really great opportunities.

Overall you're a very solid player and you had some good matches in those videos. My thought is it might benefit you to be a little more aggressive. Hope this helps you out some.
 

Pheta Ray

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I'd like critique on these, please:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1nzSpsXMPA&list=UUDZfe4ESZxxMNBWNLeACPg&index=1 (vs. :snake: )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBuw- GbEjb0&list=UUDZfe4ESZxxMNBWWNLeACPg&index=4 (vs. :rob: )

Personally I think Ike is one of my best options reguarding my characters, so I''m planning on using him as a CP to Snake.
:snake:

0:20-0:22 Bair instead of grabbing him is another option.

0:27 A jab cancel from behind could be another option, again instead of grabbing.

0:27-0:32 Aggressiveness on the ledge is okay. Just go for it.

0:34 Bair or Nair his fastfall.

0:44 Airdodge, then Bair to momentum cancel.

1:11-1:13 Quickdraw recovery is very risky because of the lag on recovery after it hits. Or clanks on a shield. Snake's Ftilt might have killed you.

1:40-1:42 Excellent intimidation with Usmash.

1:45 Bair is possible as Snake started his Ftilt.

2:13-2:14 An Out of Shield (OoS) Bair instead of a roll could have given you momentum.

2:26 Tap D-stick up, airdodge, D-stick to stage, and finally Bair if you think you might get KOed.

2:29-2:35 A good ledge tactic is drop, jump, Uair, Aether.

2:42-2:43 Risky to recover with Quickdraw, try not to use it too much.

2:52 Pretty Bair.

3:25 Pretty KO.

3:41-3:42 Airdodge, D-stick to the side, fastfall to Nair is another option to get Snake off of you.

3:48 Uair might have saved you here, but its your preference.


I'm sorry I only have time to look at Snake's match. All in all you're a strong player with Ike. I'm not the best myself, but I'm working on it. These are mostly personal options like the Bairs, but the airdodges are crucial. It's the fastest ending momentum cancel Ike has, so use it if you're in trouble.

All in all, just keep in mind some of the things I mentioned. I'm sure it will help you out, maybe in theory more than in practice. It's up to you.
 

Heartstring

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I'd like critique on these, please:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1nzSpsXMPA&list=UUDZfe4ESZxxMNBWNLeACPg&index=1 (vs. :snake: )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBuw-GbEjb0&list=UUDZfe4ESZxxMNBWWNLeACPg&index=4 (vs. :rob: )

Personally I think Ike is one of my best options reguarding my characters, so I''m planning on using him as a CP to Snake.
Your Ike isn't too bad. And I dunno about you, But I find getting pointers from one specific situation to be kinda useless. so here's some more general help:

-Try to spend a bit less time rolling/spot-dodging and more time in your shield when in a neutral position. doing that sort of thing was getting you punished quite a bit

-While you're at it. Try to be on the ground a little more. Jumping is fine, but it leaves you with less options and ike has no way to safely changing where he's going to land. so your opponent can just get to where you're going to land and wait for you to make the first move. (Plus, you can Jab in the air!)

-Improve the timings of your jab cancels. Almost every time you did it, he either got away before jab3 or shielded it and punished you for it. Once you've gotten the timing down, you have practically got a guaranteed 20% (-staling) every time you jab him. practise it untill it becomes natural and you'll be much better right away!
(Untill then, just go Jab1,Jab1,Jab2,Jab3. It's pretty foolproof and really hard to SDI out of it in time)
 

Pheta Ray

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I'd like critique on these, please:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1nzSpsXMPA&list=UUDZfe4ESZxxMNBWNLeACPg&index=1 (vs. :snake: )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBuw-GbEjb0&list=UUDZfe4ESZxxMNBWWNLeACPg&index=4 (vs. :rob: )

Personally I think Ike is one of my best options reguarding my characters, so I''m planning on using him as a CP to Snake.
Okay, got the R.O.B. video done now. Here's what I found, after picking apart the video. (Sorry G~P, I know it should be a little broader to help him out with the general everything. But I think this is helpful too.)

:rob:

0:09 - Hold the shield longer next time or, better yet, attempt to perfect powershielding.

0:13 - Fastfall Nair if you can next time. :rob: had a quick follow-up though, so be wary of that.

0:21 - Don't grab :rob:'s side-B. Grabs and jabs will not cancel that.

0:24 - Same thing here. Roll away if possible, as if he stays there he will break your shield.

0:47 - A Bair or Uair would have been effective here.

1:19 - RAR his tail or OoS Bair him. Or just Bair. He was climbing up the ledge so slowly here, it was a perfect chance.

1:32 - Pretty KO, very nice.

1:56 - Airdodge next time. It could have saved you.

2:03 - Keep holding the shield like in the beginning of the fight.

2:11 - If he rolls, short-hop --> Bair. Combo him with a jab cancel later.

2:15 - If he's in the air, shield, don't dodge.

2:18 - Drop with Nair next time.

2:23 - Cancel his side-B with a Bair. Jab1 doesn't have a high enough priority against :rob:'s side-B.

2:27, 3:00 - Another chance for a Bair.

3:01-3:03 - Stick up, airdodge, (optional: Bair), stick in, jump, recovery move (Aether or Quickdraw [preferably not the latter]).

3:51 - Another chance for an OoS Bair.

4:25 - Cranking a Bair instead of an Fair or a Utilt would have been more effective here.

4:30 - Shield --> roll next time.

4:42 - Beautiful, hands down.

4:50 - Good spacing with Fair.

4:59 - Bair chance missed again.

What I notice, like StarPhoenix and G~P, is that you need a little more aggression in your game. Now to be frank we can't all be as aggressive as the faster characters. We're Ike mains, slow is a life-style. So be relaxed but come in more often. Utilize that Bair, it's got 5 :ike: on the Guide for a reason. Like earlier, use your aerials more to your advantage. But don't jump around a lot, like G~P said. Jumping is fine, just not all the time. Other characters get it easy in the air, Ike mains don't have that luxury.

Again, thanks for posting your video. I hope this helps you out in any way, be it technical or theoretical.
 
D

Deleted member 189823

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Hey, I am curious about this "walking combat" thing, which is basically a faster jab cancelling done by holding the A button. I do it by pressing it multiple times.
 

Heartstring

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combat walking is just done by holding A when the opponent is at a space where Jab1 hits, but Jab2 missed, so it autocancels back into jab1 just by holding the button
 
D

Deleted member 189823

Guest
Makes...sense...

Guess it'll actually be useful.
In an old Ike combo video a player did that and the person wouldn't even SDI (or probably try to SDI inwards) and eat a full string of jab combos up to the edge and get B-Air'd.
 

Heartstring

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Makes...sense...

Guess it'll actually be useful.
In an old Ike combo video a player did that and the person wouldn't even SDI (or probably try to SDI inwards) and eat a full string of jab combos up to the edge and get B-Air'd.
yes, exactly like that.
Then again, combo videos are meant to be done against bad players. it makes the main guy actually look good
 

YagamiLight

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Do you have an aversion to Ike's Dash Attack? I didn't see you use it at all! Eruption / Counter / Fsmash (other moves you didn't use) are personal preference but you definitely wanna use DAs.

Space NAirs better.

If your Jab1 is shielded, don't go for the rest of the combo.

Lucas specific tips: Grab Release (Grounded) -> Jab is a true combo. Air Release - > Dash Attack is a true combo.
 

Blubolouis

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@Swei
I got some tips for you after watching your match vs the Lucas player. First, a very important one: you gotta recognize what kind of jab cancel to use, if indeed it is time to use one. Normally I'm not a fan of jab1>jab2>jab1>jab2, but seeing that there were like 3 occasions where you netted a lot of damages doing it, it would be a shame to tell you not to do it altogether. Do remember that some players won't get hit by the second jab1 at all. It happened sometimes against this Lucas, which brings me to the actual point: you gotta finish your jabs a little more. Someone in this very thread told me the same thing some time ago, and it is a very sound advice. Jab3 is a lot of damage (7% is more than sonic's full jab combo, I believe), and sometimes it's better to get the whole jab combo than going for a potential jab cancel which ends up shielded... which tends to happen a lot if you go for jab2>jab1 in my experience.

Next would be, be careful with your dashes. I believe walking is very important with Ike, allowing you to jab, retreat aerials and shield instantly. In this match, I haven't noticed a whole lot of occasions where this caused you trouble (then again, I only watched the match once), but it specifically happens at the end: you dash, try to run away from your opponent, and get caught during yout turnaround animation... It's one of the flaws of the dash: you get hit by annoying stuff all the time. Careful with that.

As Light said, you didn't use a lot of Dash attacks, which isn't a big deal (at least in this match-up), but still could've netted you some landing punishes. And, more importantly, could've combo'ed after a Bthrow. If you don't know the timing on that, try to learn it, bthrow>dash attack is magic.

Overall I liked your playstyle, LOTS of jab pressure. Last advice, regarding jabs and jab pressure: since you seem to rely on it a lot, you must learn and recognize how your opponents get out of or react to your jabs. This lucas, for instance, seemed to do 1 of 2 things: shield and roll away/behind you, or mash Nair. You can't really cover both options at once, but it's very easy to mix your jabs with shield>grab, which would punish a Nair attempt, or be safe otherwise. It might even push him to roll more evidently, which can then be punished.

Apart from all that, here's a vid of me vs a friend, an MK/Pika user. This set is pika vs Ike. I would love some input. It seems I have trouble dealing with full-hop jolts and their mix-ups.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hu0_zrEdMCY&feature=youtu.be
 

Pheta Ray

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here's a vid of me vs a friend, an MK/Pika user. This set is pika vs Ike. I would love some input. It seems I have trouble dealing with full-hop jolts and their mix-ups.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hu0_zrEdMCY&feature=youtu.be
[Match 1, 1:06]

As I'm watching this, I'm noticing that Pikachu is zoning you out a lot with T-jolt and their mix-ups. You already said that but here it is again. Bear in mind I used to play Pikachu, so I have sort of an idea what I'm talking about.

Rule 1: be wary of the chaingrab. Pikachu has a chaingrab on Ike, a Dthrow from 0-67% and an Fthrow from 0-62%. You can escape the first 4 Dthrows (if he uses them) with a footstool. Other than that you're locked til he SH Nairs you.

Rule 2: T-jolt avoidance. I know you're Ike, you're not an aerial character. But don't be afraid to jump into the air. If you do that, if I were playing, I'd take that time to approach. So that's when you land with Fair, then roll backwards to keep Pika off of you. Or if you think he won't shield grab, land with Nair and jab cancel.

Between you and me, I wouldn't go forwards after Pikachu in the air. T-jolt.

=================================

[Match 1, 3:23]

Was that Eruption a mistake? I hope so...

Also, don't forget your Usmash. It will honestly wreck Pikachu if you can get the timing right, particularly if he QAs (Quick Attacks) but doesn't hit you.

=================================

[Match 1 End]

Alright, I'm only watching match 1 because I've got to go to DC tomorrow morning and I have yet to complete my packing.

My only advice on T-jolt is to not be afraid to jump and space with Ragnell (Ike's sword). Don't be worried about being punished hugely by Pikachu. He's mostly gimmicks, as once you learn the basics of Pikachu he's all gimmicks and annoying your opponent. Also, when dealing with T-jolt, he has temporary invincibility (as well as Thunder). But you can still hit Pika out of T-jolt if he messes it up.

It's never easy for Ike to approach a character with a projectile. All in all, I think you did okay. Just know that Pikachu can easily outmaneuver you in the air and recover to the stage even if he's in a spot where Ike goes for broke (like beneath the stage, the corners, etc).
 

Rango the Mercenary

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