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The Official Falco Video Thread

TheChocolateLava

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 9, 2014
Messages
31
Hey, I'm pretty new but I'm improving a lot (and looking to improve faster), could I get some critiques on my games?

Here are my most recent games (though the audio is messed up)

/watch?v=ZQoR2RyPdgk&list=PL8YgCDviEJj_1msk2d9PY0X4kVzbvkP83&index=4

It's a big chunk of friendlies, my games are at 5:05 , 8:45 , 15:55 (all v marths), 20:35 (v fox), 26:20 (v marth, I do very well this game), 32:27 (v falcon, sick combos), 38:30 (v marth again), 51:05 (v falcon)

I realize that this is a lot of games total, so maybe pick a few at random and watch if you're willing to help me out!

As a side note: This was the day I started consistently shortening side-b, so if one of your criticisms is that I was shortening too often, that was really the only option I was picking that day intentionally.

Thank you in advance!

edit: couldn't post a link because of low post count, its on youtube
 
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Thomas Johnson

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 6, 2014
Messages
27
This is my first time posting so forgive and inform me if I'm doing this incorrectly. We had our weekly last night, and I played prettyyyyy poorly. I've been playing for about a year and a half. Mained sheik for a while, switched to Falco about 4 months ago. I think my issue is my mental game, but I need somebody else to watch my matches because I've been having trouble analyzing them myself.


http://www.twitch.tv/isu_smash/b/650105102?t=69m38s
 

JTimps

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 22, 2014
Messages
8
Location
Charlotte, NC
NNID
Thesuperguide
3DS FC
4468-0969-2266
Hello I am fairly new to the competitive smash scene and I recently went to a tournament to play melee. I was able to be streamed on a few sets and would appreciate some feedback on things I could work on to improve my playstyle. Since I am new I don't really know how to learn the game better and take the most away from film so any help would be appreciated.

Vs. Blue https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cQE7mjdHwQ

Vs. Matt https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eN-ops4-UBo

Vs. Quasar https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gjd0Lp9b23A&index=1&list=FLIkeTdbletdnI9wPqWqLIrg

Again thanks for helping out a fellow smasher
 

OninO

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 19, 2014
Messages
289
@ JTimps JTimps
I'll tell you how to watch your videos. Watching in 1/2 speed can be helpful.
Pass 1).
Go through, pause and rewind every time you get hit and examine the situation, why did you get hit? (e.g. almost the first hit of the match against Matt you got naired out of a laser because it's not safe at that range. If you had retreated that laser a little bit you might have caught him out of the nair and been able to punish).
Did you get hit because you thought you were safe at that range? Did you get hit because you got whiff punished? Why did you throw out the move that got whiff punished, what were you trying to protect against? Did you get hit because your pressure wasn't crisp enough?

Pass 2)
Go through, pause and rewind every time your punish string is broken. Did you miss an easy follow up? Can you imagine a follow up for a situation where you're not converting on a hit?

Pass 1 helps you examine neutral, Pass 2 helps you find the holes in your punish game that you need to practise.

For me for example, I have trouble with converting low % connections on fast fallers where they can land on the platform after a shine. That's an area I'm actively working on speeding up. Another example, this time an example of requiring external help to freshen up my game. I'd never thought of the consequences of the tech window opening in the pillar combo ~40% or shine->dair->shine->dair->shine. Throwing in a 3rd dair will get your combo teched out of by good players all the time, if they haven't already managed to smash DI out. So now you get into the realm of DI dependent strings and the combo becomes free form, options like soft bair->u-tilt, soft nair->grab, etc. become your best bet of really extending your combos. Or you could explore tech chasing with dash attack or whatever, I don't know, that area of the game is unexplored territory for me personally. Here the best thing to do is search for the punish scenario in great player's games (PP, Mango, Westballz, Dashizwiz etc.) then practise replicating it.

Side note: I just thought of a way of practising this against known DI. You could plug in a controller to port 2 with the stick skewed hard in one direction, then when the stick is neutral it will register a constant directional input, will experiment with this tonight.
 

TerenceLau

Smash Ace
Joined
May 8, 2005
Messages
900
Location
Honolulu, Hawaii
i watched the first 3 games. it really seems like you could have it your way because your marth friend didn't know how to dash dance. he was not di-ing your combos; he remained stationary either with his shield up or spot dodging in most cases, he even does get up attack as his default response. so with a few habits picked out i feel like you could have punished even harder in your matches.
 

TerenceLau

Smash Ace
Joined
May 8, 2005
Messages
900
Location
Honolulu, Hawaii
Hi, could anybody give me feedback on these games I played (Bo5)?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84gVD7R-Ehs
wow smash from uk, nice. i assume it's on the pal version judging by how you could di super far away from those grabs. also, is there a reason the video is black and white?

2 matches in so far, you were getting gimped left and right because you insta-jump to recover (way too much).
sheik was platform camping to nullify your lasers, and you gave in and played his game instead. i'd either shoot from the other side or weave my way right underneath sheik and threaten with uair/bair/etc. (even a high angle ftilt works too as you demonstrated in match 3.)

during game 4 i felt like i could wd oos shine right after sheik's dsmash, all the other times if i know i can't punish, i would probably just shield di away from the dsmash. i wonder what was the logic behind the fod pick? you had no laser and couldn't box with sheik close quarter = gg.
 

TerenceLau

Smash Ace
Joined
May 8, 2005
Messages
900
Location
Honolulu, Hawaii
here are my recent tournament matches. haven't gone to a tournament in 4 months. my bracket actually gave me the players i wanted to play so i was happy about that.

vs luigi ka master (#1 in hawaii) (ws)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boeEuOCulNc

vs rebel (#4 in hawaii) falcon (wq, $10 mm then $5 mm)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHzunLjZ0Xs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xJ91ceOGeI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBJlUgffUYU

any critique is welcomed. i much prefer advice on style, like, when to play aggressive/defensive, aerial/ground based, etc.
 

OninO

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 19, 2014
Messages
289
Can't watch too much atm because I'm at work. But the first match vs. rebel, one thing I noticed that is that you're a little slow to mix up your rhythm. Like if you go into "ham attack mode", you don't back off until you open them up or you die. It cost you 60% of just running into defensive jabs and such in the first couple of stocks.

Maybe try "stuttering" more, little pauses between or even in the middle of attack runs, wavedash down for a beat before launching or similar things.
 

Frenzy231199

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 20, 2014
Messages
63
Location
Bristol, England
wow smash from uk, nice. i assume it's on the pal version judging by how you could di super far away from those grabs. also, is there a reason the video is black and white?

2 matches in so far, you were getting gimped left and right because you insta-jump to recover (way too much).
sheik was platform camping to nullify your lasers, and you gave in and played his game instead. i'd either shoot from the other side or weave my way right underneath sheik and threaten with uair/bair/etc. (even a high angle ftilt works too as you demonstrated in match 3.)

during game 4 i felt like i could wd oos shine right after sheik's dsmash, all the other times if i know i can't punish, i would probably just shield di away from the dsmash. i wonder what was the logic behind the fod pick? you had no laser and couldn't box with sheik close quarter = gg.
Cheers for the feedback man!

Yeah, the smash scene in UK is decent but the average skill level isn't very high, it is in PAL version as you assumed, the reason for it being in black and white is because of the capture card (It isn't my own one so i don't know why it happens :s)

I can definitely see what you mean by instant double jumping a lot of the time after watching the set again lol.

I don't normally think about doing WD OOS normally so i'll try and implement it more

The F-o-D pick was because my opponent counter-picked it and there are no bans so was forced there.
 

TerenceLau

Smash Ace
Joined
May 8, 2005
Messages
900
Location
Honolulu, Hawaii
The F-o-D pick was because my opponent counter-picked it and there are no bans so was forced there.
completely forgot whose counter pick it was. haha. i'd say keep the videos coming,
Can't watch too much atm because I'm at work. But the first match vs. rebel, one thing I noticed that is that you're a little slow to mix up your rhythm. Like if you go into "ham attack mode", you don't back off until you open them up or you die. It cost you 60% of just running into defensive jabs and such in the first couple of stocks.

Maybe try "stuttering" more, little pauses between or even in the middle of attack runs, wavedash down for a beat before launching or similar things.
will i be getting more critique, maybe on the set with luigi, from you?
 

OninO

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 19, 2014
Messages
289
I can try. I don't know much about the subtleties of Falco v Luigi though.

Some obviously dumb stuff game 2, attacking invincibility with a grab.

You do a lot of the classic "dumb technical Falco" stuff, like going straight in with dair shine (not safe on shield).

I'm hesitant to give advice because I'm just starting to internalise this stuff as well. But, coming back to the rhythm stuff I mentioned earlier. The beat that you move to is very rigid. It's particularly apparent at the end of game 2.

It's either laser (b1) -> dash f (b2) -> dash b (b3) -> dash f (b4) -> aerial approach or:
laser (b1) -> dash b (b2) -> dash f (b3) -> aerial approach.

You could try mixing in low commitment stuffers to your offense, one I've been experimenting that works quite well is approaching laser->laser (landing just on the edge of their shield grab range) and then fading a short hop, instant nair backwards. A similar idea at a similar range is laser -> f-tilt (angled down in case of shield poke), or if you've got a good read/want to speculate on a higher reward, laser->d-tilt.

Like I said, I don't know anything about punishing Luigi, but I think you respect his down-b too much, especially at longer ranges. I think you should be able to just shield grab it, or shine out of shield for something a little more juicy perhaps?

PPMD once recommended playing with a metronome and I'm only just now understanding why. It's because we can't help building up our own rhythms of play and an obvious rhythm makes you super predictable.

Maybe you could try getting a metronome, setting it to that rhythm that you normally attack at (watch last part of game 2 on Yoshis story) and then experiment with putting in pauses on random beats.
 

TerenceLau

Smash Ace
Joined
May 8, 2005
Messages
900
Location
Honolulu, Hawaii
I can try. I don't know much about the subtleties of Falco v Luigi though.

Some obviously dumb stuff game 2, attacking invincibility with a grab.

You do a lot of the classic "dumb technical Falco" stuff, like going straight in with dair shine (not safe on shield).

I'm hesitant to give advice because I'm just starting to internalise this stuff as well. But, coming back to the rhythm stuff I mentioned earlier. The beat that you move to is very rigid. It's particularly apparent at the end of game 2.

It's either laser (b1) -> dash f (b2) -> dash b (b3) -> dash f (b4) -> aerial approach or:
laser (b1) -> dash b (b2) -> dash f (b3) -> aerial approach.

You could try mixing in low commitment stuffers to your offense, one I've been experimenting that works quite well is approaching laser->laser (landing just on the edge of their shield grab range) and then fading a short hop, instant nair backwards. A similar idea at a similar range is laser -> f-tilt (angled down in case of shield poke), or if you've got a good read/want to speculate on a higher reward, laser->d-tilt.

Like I said, I don't know anything about punishing Luigi, but I think you respect his down-b too much, especially at longer ranges. I think you should be able to just shield grab it, or shine out of shield for something a little more juicy perhaps?

PPMD once recommended playing with a metronome and I'm only just now understanding why. It's because we can't help building up our own rhythms of play and an obvious rhythm makes you super predictable.

Maybe you could try getting a metronome, setting it to that rhythm that you normally attack at (watch last part of game 2 on Yoshis story) and then experiment with putting in pauses on random beats.
thanks for the insight. no comment on my decision making because i couldn't even justify some things i did when i rewatched the videos. my tempo is a big part of my game to work on because i was mostly playing cpu for tech skill practice during my 4 month solitude. ka master advised to stay more grounded, bait to fmash, and space more aerials. then get to and grab the ledge as soon as you knock luigi off the stage.doing these things should at least make the match up challenging for luigi.

on another note it's really frustrating playing someone who can sdi dair well. many times i couldn't connect more than a jab after dair on luigi. (and it just rings to me that maybe i could dair > fsmash to beat sdi.)
 
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OninO

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 19, 2014
Messages
289
I think if someone is SDI'ing dair you'd get more out of d-tilting them if they DI away, and up-tilting them if they SDI behind you on a cross-up.

Edit: You can tell while you're still in the air whether you're going to land too far away for shine, or at the very least when it's not clear that you'll hit, I just go straight for the d-tilt rather than even try and shine if I'm uncertain.
 
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OninO

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 19, 2014
Messages
289
About 2 minutes into first video (at work again so only a quick one).

I'm gonna assume you were very nervous, but you're missing a lot of guaranteed follow ups (your pillars are ultra sloppy). Once again, I understand that nerves can take away your ability to execute but you really need to get that stuff to the point where you can do it in your sleep (something I struggle with still as well). 10 minutes every day pillaring Fox into some free form juggles (>40%) and 10 minutes working on the platform variants of the combos (plat wavelands into shine/grab).

Also, you throw out a lot of moves in neutral that are speculative at best, you should be ready to cover yourself with a jab or go into crouch cancel. I'm thinking of a particular moment when you came down from side plat with dair when Fox is nowhere near you then you get whiff punished. You could have jabbed him out but probably should have come down with a laser instead of a dair.

I can tell you're working on shield dropping at the moment lol. Like they say if you can't execute it in practise, don't do it in tournament.

Anyway, you don't look too bad, just need greasier punishes and a more precise neutral. Try and think always about the spacing at which you're putting your hitbox. i.e. if you're trying to wall with back air, it makes no sense to do it miles away from fox unless you're prepped to follow up with a second ac bair or a u-tilt when he comes flying in. You should also follow up with those when trying to wall at close range. Finally, you can wall with fade back dair/nair non fast falled which is pretty nasty and less obvious than turning around to bair. (You can do it instead of approaching, i.e. land close but not attacking their shield then put out a hitbox to catch a grab attempt).

Edit: I thought I'd finish with some good stuff:
Your shine->bairs are on point and really nicely placed.
Also upthrow to nair is a really nice advantage creator for pushing people off ledge which I hadn't thought of before
 
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OninO

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 19, 2014
Messages
289
Here's a rule:
If you want your set analyzed, analyze someone elses set first. That's the reason this thread is low activity, because everyone asks and no one gives.
 

The24thGanondorf

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 23, 2014
Messages
47
Location
United States, Florida
3DS FC
1418-7666-1581
alright, we'll my friends left town again, so there isnt much to practice with.

i know the timing for L-canceling while hitting the shield is different than hitting the character directly. how would you recommend to practice l-canceling on shielding characters, if theres nobody to fight with?
A really good way to master lag canceling is to practice using the bat-drop technique in home run contest.
 

BauxFalcon

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 12, 2015
Messages
86
Location
New Jersey
Ok

Some general notes: A lot of Flacos game revolves around staying right outside of your opponents zone. Your laser game, at times got interrupted by fairs. You also combo in anticipation of attacks (hypothetical example, doing an upthrow and bair because most people don't DI it, but if your opponent DIs you'll miss.). It's a bad habit, and I fall to it occasionally, but you should watch your opponent's DI and combo reactively (upthrowing and watching for your opponent's DI before attacking)

0:35: Don't laser in a way that won't hit him if you're in his range. Make sure to play defensively if Marth is diagonally to you like that.
1:30: I would have already read that side b by now, work on using up b as well
1:48 Is where you should have been at 0:35
1:53 You should have shined and then immediately have done a fading nair on his shield
2:16 You can't pillar Marth too well, instead of going for the second pillar, bair would've worked better
2:32 You go for many fmashes and other kill moves at low percents, if he cc's it, you're dead
2:57 Laser>grab isn't guaranteed
3:05 Look at how far you were from Marth, he couldn't grab you. Watch Marth, if he starts moving in towards you, he's going to grab, so watch for that and WD back if he does. Otherwise, staying in shield was a better option because you can WD back if he tries to pressure shield
3:46.5 Tech flub?
3:48 Please don't dash attack so much, it gets worse the better players you're up against
3:51 Considering how close you were to Marth, you should have jumped and immediately shined and double jumped into a bair right after that, drifting away from him. The advantage of this is three fold. One, you aren't stuck in shine. Two, you get two free hits if Marth touches shine, or just one free bair if Marth isn't cautious. Three, Marth can't approach until he moves back and by that time, you'd have drifted away.
4:07 Falco isn't very good at attacking ledge offstage.
6:47 Good recovery, but the Marth was also good

Basically your pressure and laser game got much better at the end, however, you just made some mistakes with combo'ing and a few bad habits. You did pretty well other than that.
 

OninO

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 19, 2014
Messages
289
Thanks very much for taking the time to give feed back, it's much appreciated.
 

L33thal

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
131
Location
Monterey Park, CA
Can anyone give me some critique about this set?

I was playing pretty bad this tourney and I remember I kept thinking the stream setup had 3ish frames of lag when I was playing so my spacing, lasers, etc. are off. But, I feel like this covers the basics of my playstyle. And even when I'm playing good, this is like a scaled-down version of when I play people like Professor Pro.

Any thoughts/advice would really be appreciated.
 

OninO

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 19, 2014
Messages
289
I would refuse to play on a setup that had that much lag, **** that.
 

OninO

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 19, 2014
Messages
289
I believe I've critiqued you before in the discussion thread and your weaknesses are the same now that I saw then. Once again, don't take this as coming from a position of greater knowledge or proficiency because it's not. As I said last time, I'd put myself at about your level.

That being said, you have a weakness in tech-chase/knock down scenarios. You do things like position yourself to cover roll in on a knock down near the edge, which is perfect, but then you try and grab it. Both down-smash, and shine are better, easier options which don't require you to pivot if you're slightly mis-spaced. Shine if they're low, down-smash if they're at kill percent.

If I extrapolate my own abilities to other mid/low level Falcos I would say one of the biggest weaknesses at this level is coverage of knockdown/tech scenarios. We know how to juggle people pretty well on a good day, but once they hit the ground it becomes an "I haven't practised this, I'll just throw out a move and hope".

Your edge guarding is bad, your second to last stock on FD you get a nice 50% and off stage, you cover immediate side-b with jump back dair which is fine, but then you downsmash too early. You could have tried low-angled f-tilting the firefox to cover going low, then react if he went high.

Don't fast-fall dairs when trying to spike a recovering firefox from the stage edge, you want them to hit it too high to tech. Alternatively, turn around and grab edge if they drop low, then do a rising dair.
 
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L33thal

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
131
Location
Monterey Park, CA
We know how to juggle people pretty well on a good day, but once they hit the ground it becomes an "I haven't practised this, I'll just throw out a move and hope".
Thanks for the critique, OninO! I appreciate your insight! I definitely feel like I need to be more patient with stuff like edgeguarding but I go autopilot a lot because I train by playing for really long periods of time. It's only now I realize that the quality of training is better than the quantity.

http://www.twitch.tv/landiego/v/17469299
(Set starts at 46:50, I'm the green Falco)

This is a more recent match of mine. One thing I did poorly was I assumed my opponent didn't improve since the last time I've played him when he has actually gotten pretty good pretty fast which threw me off. So some of my bad options like rolling in and spotdodging are from me playing overaggressive spacies at my school. Other than that, I feel like I was playing alright.

Any thoughts/advice always super appreciated!
 
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Conti

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Messages
839
Location
Philadelphia, PA
Hey Guys, So after picking up Melee competetively in february and quitting WiiU a couple months later, I won my 2nd Melee Local ever this weekend, Small Local like 11ppl n not a big deal but It definitely was a nice confidence boost.

I still feel I'm quite aweful IMO and have ALOT to work on. I been rewatching my Gameplays and taking notes on things i wasn't even doing [like OoS Shine/WDs, LedgeDashes, just a bunch of stuff i was scared to use or have trouble using in the right situations normally], but idk, I need more help with just using my options properly, minus'ing the unsafe scrub habits, and my mental game [in WFs you'll see me play much better and confidently vs NBT, then in GFs i was much more nervous and panicy playstyle]

Anyways there's like 4 Matches with me on stream.
Mainly I want to review the match I had with 404Cray [A relatively new but decent fox main] because I feel like i was doing everything wrong against him & barley won when I definitely feel I could of preformed alot better and really need to see what I shouldn't be doing because I'm not really sure.
Also check out WFs for my better gameplay, Still looks scrubby to me imo and I need to push myself further.
And if anyone is good at identifying habits and stuff, Check out GFs and please tell me what my panic habits are and good alternatives I could be doing instead to improve my play.

All vids are in the playlist Thanks much guys!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ow3FYrhO36w&list=PLiy1lEN0fdByUCnWScRN9DJWcW0imHFH0&index=8
 
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OninO

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 19, 2014
Messages
289
Conti Conti
As with any thing I point out here, I preface it by saying it doesn't come from a place of expertise, take it with a grain of salt but at least thing about it.

Vs. 404Cray
There were some very good moments in there.
Tech skill flaws:
Movement out of shine. Your waveshines, and just generally exiting shine are probably the weakest part of your tech game that I could see (purely technical stuff).

OoS game is weak, you need shine OoS and you need wavedash OoS, both sorely missing and really constraining your ability to counter attack.

Ledge game is weak, ledge dashing and double laser, as well as mixing in quick aerials from the edge might be good.

Habits:
A couple of obvious bad habits to clean up are forward smashing in neutral, and as an extension, your use of forward smash in general is poorly considered. Even when it worked it was dumb (charged Fsmash to edgeguard in the first game, you should have waited and tilted to cover down angle, bair to cover anything else).

Aggro in the scramble. This is actually a good thing to be doing at this level because you need to find out when you can beat someone else to the punch. That being said, your tendency to go aggro in the scramble may be an issue if someone else has a read on you with faster/better moves as happened in the early stocks on Yoshi's story.

Decision making:
Your lasers were either poorly timed or poorly executed or both a lot of the times. Count how many times you got hit trying to laser in those sets.

Fsmashing, check it, it's dumb.

Positional game, you don't need to be so aggro when you have someone pinned to one side of the stage. Wait for them to try and weasel out of it. Lasers, turn around u-tilt, f-tilt, dash dance bair (pivot bair), jab are all fantastic tools for stuff people's attempts to fight out of a corner. When you go in, you give them a real simple way of getting out, just roll after you shine. If they turtle up either max range bair their shield until they roll or grab them from your dash dance if they're really scared.

As an extension of positional game, what you decide to do when people are on the edge is over-commital and a couple of times got you killed in your GF set, charging F-smash and hoping they jump is profoundly stupid (I do it as well sometimes, gulp!).

Hair game:
Wack, lose the fro.
 

Conti

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Messages
839
Location
Philadelphia, PA
Conti Conti
As with any thing I point out here, I preface it by saying it doesn't come from a place of expertise, take it with a grain of salt but at least thing about it.

Vs. 404Cray
There were some very good moments in there.
Tech skill flaws:
Movement out of shine. Your waveshines, and just generally exiting shine are probably the weakest part of your tech game that I could see (purely technical stuff).

OoS game is weak, you need shine OoS and you need wavedash OoS, both sorely missing and really constraining your ability to counter attack.

Ledge game is weak, ledge dashing and double laser, as well as mixing in quick aerials from the edge might be good.

Habits:
A couple of obvious bad habits to clean up are forward smashing in neutral, and as an extension, your use of forward smash in general is poorly considered. Even when it worked it was dumb (charged Fsmash to edgeguard in the first game, you should have waited and tilted to cover down angle, bair to cover anything else).

Aggro in the scramble. This is actually a good thing to be doing at this level because you need to find out when you can beat someone else to the punch. That being said, your tendency to go aggro in the scramble may be an issue if someone else has a read on you with faster/better moves as happened in the early stocks on Yoshi's story.

Decision making:
Your lasers were either poorly timed or poorly executed or both a lot of the times. Count how many times you got hit trying to laser in those sets.

Fsmashing, check it, it's dumb.

Positional game, you don't need to be so aggro when you have someone pinned to one side of the stage. Wait for them to try and weasel out of it. Lasers, turn around u-tilt, f-tilt, dash dance bair (pivot bair), jab are all fantastic tools for stuff people's attempts to fight out of a corner. When you go in, you give them a real simple way of getting out, just roll after you shine. If they turtle up either max range bair their shield until they roll or grab them from your dash dance if they're really scared.

As an extension of positional game, what you decide to do when people are on the edge is over-commital and a couple of times got you killed in your GF set, charging F-smash and hoping they jump is profoundly stupid (I do it as well sometimes, gulp!).

Hair game:
Wack, lose the fro.
Thanks much, [ironcially im getting a haircut this week. Need one bad.]

Hmm very insightful, Yeah my Fsmashes were the 1st thing i noticed, I did so many and they were all so dumb and nooby.

Can you give me some tips on edgeguarding and when I should be looking for what options?
I Fsmash I think because I panic and am unsure so I throw a high risk high reward punish out and I know its dumb [tbh another reason why I was Fsmashing alot is kinda like u said, im being really aggro to see what I can and cant do safely, that way once i understand proper edgeguarding [with tilts n other stuff,] i can precisely mix it up with a random Fsmash]

And yeah my lasers were off, what kinda lasers would you consider really bad lasers (like when im a danger zone and shouldnt even be putting one out [not just messing up the spacing]) and what should i be doing instead? [time stamp me in a match]

does any1 else have insight, any is appreciated. Thanks much! ^_^
 

OninO

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 19, 2014
Messages
289
Hey dude, no problem, I was only joking about the hair thing don't take that seriously.

I am serious about counting the times you got hit while lasering. You should be able to tell yourself when execution would have helped you (look for times when it was well timed but too high as an example, other examples would be if it was well timed but you fast falled it against an aerial opponent), those ones are probably good because when they do hit, they're really gonna mess with your opponents timing. The other times you get hit and you know you couldn't have gotten it out in time, that's bad positioning/timing, remove those ones from your game, also you're playing kind of like a bomber doing bombing runs, i.e. you reposition, then start lasering. Make sure you have your reverse lasers down so you can fire as you retreat and then come back in quicker if it's good.

For edge guarding, if your opponent drops below the level of the stage, get onto the ledge and look for the simple tidy ups (punishing landing lag). If your opponent goes high, hold the stage and look to punish the end lag or hit them out of their recovery with bair. If they're high but they drop to the ledge, don't worry about it, just respect ledge dashes and look to punish their get up option. You should aim to space so that you can reach stand up->shield with a max range bair, but you can reach roll on with anything (dair in place, shine, dsmash, w/e), this will put you in get up attack range but you just have to accept that risk and maybe try and read it/prepare for it by mixing in full hops, or by shielding when they come up and acting out of shield (shine OoS on a roll if you're well spaced, AC bair out of shield into u-tilt if they stood up). If they're competent ledge dashers you're going to need to give them more space but make them show you they can do it before you give it to them.
 

TeeJay308

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Messages
38
Location
Battlefield
And here's some of my play from a tourn this weekend. They're 2 pretty quick matches so would be interested to hear what you guys see: http://www.twitch.tv/standingfierce2/v/19028893?t=18m53s
DISCLAIMER: I won’t comment on missed techskill, and I’m a pretty bad player myself. Maybe some other more knowledgeable Falco player can confirm or add some things to my analysis of your matches to add credibility to my findings.

VS Sheik (Battlefield)

At around 20:18 you went for a HORRIBLE DAir. I do these as well, but this was a typical flowchart approach. The Sheik was standing on top of a platform, the DAir had no chance of hitting. I struggle against people on platforms as well, but generally I think the idea is to either let them down and apply pressure upon their landing, or hit them off the platform with a reverse BAir or DAir/NAir. I sometimes go for SH UAir platform pokes as well, but I’m not sure if that’s a good option.

You lost your second stock due to approaching mindlessly again. Laser, laser, jump aerial and he read it, called it with a fullhop and FAired you off the stage.

Beginning of your third stock you tried to FSmash Sheik’s UpB, and I’m not sure if that’s even possible. I’ve had people tell me that that stalling **** Sheiks sometimes do is completely invincible, and I’ve had no luck trying to challenge it so I’m inclined to believe them. I saw some PPMD vs M2K matches as well and he just kinda let M2K get back on stage and applied laser pressure when he got back on, so that’s what I do personally as well. I’ve messed some Sheiks stall up by grabbing the ledge before them, but it’s more of a one time thing. Once they become aware they will FAir you in the face if you try to go for it again.

You missed your initial edgeguard at around 21:50 but still killed him with a BAir. Edgeguarding Sheik is surprisingly easy if you’re below 100%. If she goes high, like she did this time, just sit on the edge, if she goes for the stage, regular getup and FSmash/DAir into combo or whatever you think is best at that percentage, if she goes for the edge, you will be holding it. React instead of read in those situations.

An unfortunate SD (Flaco lyphe) and another couple of bad approaches led to you losing the first match.

VS Sheik (Yoshi’s Story)

The stream sort of froze out so I can’t really see how you got off-stage so early (BThrow presumably). Can’t comment on what I can’t see :p, but Sheik can definitely steal stocks like that near the edge. I personally prefer Final Destination against Sheik, because I think Falco completely dominates her without platforms. Plus you have a lot of space to move around so you won’t have to be near the edge as much. Yoshi’s still isn’t a bad stage though… Probably up to playstyle where you counterpick Sheik.

Beginning of your second stock, right after you landed the (wellplaced!) FSmash, you got hit with a FAir as Sheik was doing her stalling thing. A good way to deal with this to turn around, shield the FAir and BAir her OoS. Those FAirs are never safe. You can probably CC shine them as well on low percentages.

…And the rest of the match was all around sloppy mate, basically the same things that went wrong in your first match plus another SD.

What I can see from both matches against the Sheik is that you need to condition the Sheik to stop NAiring, jumping or challenging your approaches mindlessly. What I mean by that is that you, like all Falco’s (me as well), go in after a laser with an aerial attack, while that is not something you want to do right off the bat in my experience. A good way to bait Sheiks NAir or any kind of reaction would be to go for a couple of lasers near his NAir range and dash back to evade the NAir, and immediately dash/jump back in and go for whatever punish you want when you see his NAir or FTilt (this is a good answer to Falco’s SH aerials as well) whiff.

He also rolled away out of your approaches when he was at the edge a lot of the times, try to keep stage control as you have him near the edge and see what he does rather than approach. If you’d have waited a moment and seen the roll I’m sure you’d have punished him hard for it. A good thing Falco has in most of his matchups is that he is in control in the neutral situation most of the time so he can force an action from his opponent. In that particular situation you could’ve baited the roll by doing a SH approaching laser and react to what he does instead of commiting to an aerial. If he would’ve blocked the laser, you could’ve gone for shine shield pressure, if he rolls, you can still react to it. The problem with approaching someone and them rolling away in that situation is that you are in a very bad spot near the edge as Falco. It's kinda reversing the positions from very beneficial to very dangerous. Try to focus on keeping them in the corner better.
 
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