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Q&A The official "Ask Your Questions" thread

Yuna-Maria

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 15, 2008
Messages
967
Location
Atlanta, Georgia
is your region strong?
Yes.

Is it necessary for you to actually win tourneys to be happy?
No.

or do you enjoy the game enough that going to a tourney, spending 5 bucks and going out 0-2 bothers you?
It doesn't bother me. It happens all the time and it's how I learn.


realistically if you train hard I think you could guarantee top 8 at the majority of locals in any region, but I feel like most people have little grasp on what the meaning of train hard is. I consider myself to be a working man that is mostly retired from melee, yet i still practice more vs comps than most people practice total(it's relaxing to visualize spacings, practice movement combos or edgeguarding on comps. That said, I'm probably the only person that has memorized ways to get the opposing comp fox to firefox from specific positions. Still can't practice it all either).

started to post all sorts of things that would help, then deleted it all. Being realistic, you will not be able to handle top level falco or sheik play. Bum didn't face much sheik when he did so well, and the falco game has developed a lot since then. It honestly wouldn't surprise me if a DK managed to take sets off of fox, marth, ICs, or jiggs, but falco, sheik, and peach seem extremely difficult. Still, with a secondary, it would be very possible to do well with DK, but honestly playing a secondary makes it harder to master new skills with a char, so it makes playing DK at all seem very much a waste of time.
Let me elaborate on why Donkey Kong is at the top of my list. A person who taught me the basics of the metagame told me that when I'm starting out, I should try a character whose games outside of the Smash Bros. series appealed to me as a kid or even as an adult. That limited my options somewhat, but I ultimately settled on Donkey Kong because I like him as a character and I like Donkey Kong Country. I like Bowser as a character as well, but... I mean, I know I don't want to win, but Bowser would just be frustrating.
 

knightpraetor

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
2,321
wow, that move makes peach's upsmash look like a joke...3 frame window for invuln strike that comes out in 3 frames. How do DK's ever lose to fox/falco coming down from above?

though to be fair, falco just turns the dk around..and fox just comes in horizontally..but it's still a ridiculously good move. if i were a dk main iw ould probably even practice dash shield up b as a counter to fox's full hop nairs
 

Ripple

ᗣᗣᗣᗣ ᗧ·····•·····
Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Messages
9,632
IDK. I wish I remember what I did to do so well against him.

My usual strategy is to abuse fair's weird timing and range.

and with fast enough reactions, you can up-b a falling nair.

just do usual bair stuff tricks and you'll probably take 2 stocks.
 

TemPesT-

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 24, 2006
Messages
1,175
Location
Minnesota
My sources (Max Berger and Wake from MN) say your a pretty legit dude Green Ranger. I recently started playing DK, not really as a tourney character, but I find him very fun.
 

Ripple

ᗣᗣᗣᗣ ᗧ·····•·····
Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Messages
9,632
I remember how to play DK. expect some new vids of high level DK.
 

NJzFinest

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 12, 2004
Messages
8,861
Location
Princeton, NJ
Lol sup mexican, u gotta get back into the game lol

Green Ranger and Ripple, will you guys be at Apex?

That Link players vs low tiers
crew battle last apex... There should be a DK one for next Apex :D
 

Ripple

ᗣᗣᗣᗣ ᗧ·····•·····
Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Messages
9,632
Lol sup mexican, u gotta get back into the game lol

Green Ranger and Ripple, will you guys be at Apex?

That Link players vs low tiers
crew battle last apex... There should be a DK one for next Apex :D
possibly, I'm waiting for Alex Strife to get back to me about being staff. If that happens, I'll be coming.

that or if Alex raises the PM cap so I can play that
 

Ripple

ᗣᗣᗣᗣ ᗧ·····•·····
Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Messages
9,632
I didn't register. Alex didn't get back to me until 3 days ago.
 

NJzFinest

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 12, 2004
Messages
8,861
Location
Princeton, NJ
Yo I just signed up for Project M. Please tell me DK is good in this game lol... I never played it and I don't own a copy of Brawl so can't practice, #oookillem
 

Ripple

ᗣᗣᗣᗣ ᗧ·····•·····
Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Messages
9,632
Dash attack. For the love of god, dash attack
 

NJzFinest

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 12, 2004
Messages
8,861
Location
Princeton, NJ
K just played for the first time. Um I really don't like the vertical length change of DKs upb. It's really hard to over low near the edge when recovering. Also he can't chaingrab spacies anymore (cargo upthrow > regrab). Think imma just use Sheik lol
 

Ripple

ᗣᗣᗣᗣ ᗧ·····•·····
Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Messages
9,632
He can still changrab spacies for just as long
 

NJzFinest

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 12, 2004
Messages
8,861
Location
Princeton, NJ
Cargo > Uair combo wise yes. But still idk why cargo up throw sends a little bit higher now. I guess it was to make spacie comboing to be easier since you have more time to Uair after the throw, but it's impossible to combo other characters like Melee DK. I can't SH Uair Link after a grounded cargo upthrow anymore (I tried at 0%). I can't cargo upthrow into a Uair on Jiggs and Samus. Cargo Fthrow is nice vs these floater characters but I'm pretty sure these ppl dunno how to DI it.

I do like how they kept the Brawl tech where you can run forward and quickly turn around SH Bair while keeping your forward momentum. DK's approach is so sexy now. Also Bsticking Giant Punch seems viable.
 
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Green Ranger

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 28, 2012
Messages
219
Location
LA -> Pittsburgh -> New York
Had a lot of fun at Apex (even though I got bopped).

It was nice reconnecting with some old DKs (Phish-it, Eikelmann, NJz) and meeting some new ones as well (Jrad!!! (forgive me if I fudged the name up)). I also heard that there was a super good Puerto Rican DK at Apex named Gheb. I really wish I could've met you and learned some new DK tech.

Anyways, Apex showed me that people are really ****ing good at this game and there's still a pretty damn big gap between me and high caliber players. Fox mains were giving me a super hard time. It was tough for me to consistently maintain combo strings especially when the opponent would SDI my up airs. I really need to work on my movement and reactions. There's a handful of BNB techniques I was ****ing up as well (missing easy punishes, wavelands, dashdancing). Overall, I was playing pretty sloppy, dropped combos and I feel that I can do much much better next time.

DK is a viable character, I just need to get better, play more good people.

I do think it might be a little tough for someone like me to do well as a solo DK main (I'm no aMSa!!). I might be picking up Falco for a bit just to make life a little easier.
 
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NJzFinest

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 12, 2004
Messages
8,861
Location
Princeton, NJ
Haha, yup it was really great meeting you guys. I had alot of fun and stalked a good amount of DK matches to learn what I'm doing wrong. Honestly I just can't wait for the next big tournament, Apex was too much hype. I won decent amount of moneymatches vs tunnel visions Foxes so I'm happy ^^

I think I'm going to focus more on top tiers again though. I miss the days when I spammed space animal techskill and actually beat people haha.
 

phish-it

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 4, 2004
Messages
2,097
Location
Mahopac, NY
Sup guys, I forgot about this thread because the new Smashboards doesn't update me when someone posts in it. A little late but it was good seeing my fellow Monks at Apex and playing friendlies with you guys (though NJsfinest we never played at all). We should team again sometime Green Ranger, Double DK was too huge to handle.

Day 1 at Apex was probably the worst I've ever played in tournament in years/ever. Waiting around in a crowded, sweaty room without playing friendlies, then playing a tournament match, then waiting around again before you can play another is excruciating. I feel like the same thing happened during the past Apex's and if anything I learned if I can't play one character on a given day (DK at Apex), stop trying to play them and just use a different character. If I'm feeling sloppy and can't warm up at a big tourney I think I'm probably going to just use Peach next time.
 

Strong Badam

Super Vegeta
Administrator
Premium
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 27, 2008
Messages
26,514
LMAO I'm kinda salty Phish, I asked you to team like 3 times back when I still played and got denied. RIP. Hope you guys dealt out some gorilla carnage. APEx tho :dkmelee:

Back in like 2012 I started noticing that DK's strings become a lot less reliable when players SDI single-hit moves, which didn't start becoming a thing outside of top level play until recently. On top of that he's one of the weaker characters in neutral other than having above-average movement, a lot of his good attacks either don't lead into anything (dash-dancel dtilt, non-approaching bair) or have way too much startup to even be relevant, so other than super-telegraphed Grab his neutral is super weak. It became clear to me that DK wasn't in a particularly great place to start with, didn't have much improvement to be making, and had room to go down as combo mitigation techniques improved and his strings stopped going as long. Idk I just don't think DK can really do it in this game, I've felt that since mid-2012 and I haven't seen anything to convince me otherwise even post-retirement. On the off-chance I play Melee I just use Marth & Sheik mostly anyway these days, DK isn't even enjoyable to me to play in this game anymore =(. If I'm not otherwise occupied I'll always cheer for and hype up a Melee DK player at a tournament though. You guys definitely have more dedication for this character than I do lol.
 

phish-it

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 4, 2004
Messages
2,097
Location
Mahopac, NY
You're right. Of those tourneys you asked me (Pound 5 and Rom 5 I think) I was already teaming with Sol who is usually my main doubles partner when he attends the tournament. After that... you quit melee so the next opportunity never arose.
 

Green Ranger

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 28, 2012
Messages
219
Location
LA -> Pittsburgh -> New York
Nice set Ripple!

I really like your patient play. Also, nice use of neutral-B! I'm gunna try to incorporate that into my game.

One thing I like to do against pika is cargo -> dair -> techchase on platform (usually regrab). It can lead to more damage than just cargo -> uair.
 

JRad

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 10, 2014
Messages
114
Location
Gainesville, Florida
Apex was my first national experience and it was great because everyone wants to play friendlies with DK mains (mid-low tier mains in general). I definitely agree with a lot of what Phish-it and Green Ranger said. When I play DK it takes me like 5-6 games to get into the zone where the combos are just flowing really well. Fox and Peach both seem to becoming increasingly difficult for me and then of course there is falco. I mained marth for a while and decided after apex that I would start to play marth again also to deal with the spacies and peaches who I can't deal with as DK.

On a side note, it was great meeting you guys and we better get more games in at the next tournament! I was so hyped to see other DKs and I will definitely be posting some content for critiquing.
 

phish-it

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 4, 2004
Messages
2,097
Location
Mahopac, NY
guys, critique my monk plz

http://www.twitch.tv/clashtournaments/b/502177819

12:07 to 13:50 (not as important)
33:25 to 39:45
45:25 to 48:14 (not as important but still more than the first)

Gahtzu doesn't grab enough, makes the matchup look even when it shouldn't lol. Don't forget about Down tilt when edgeguarding Falcon, also more cargo down throws near the edge. Ballsy Punch at 38:27, I like it. Be careful with those full jump huges near the edge. Overall, your Monk is looking pretty hairy, keep it up.
 

Эикельманн [РУС]

Banned via Administration
Joined
Jul 17, 2009
Messages
5,263
Location
Orlando/Владивосток
Gahtzu doesn't grab enough, makes the matchup look even when it shouldn't lol. Don't forget about Down tilt when edgeguarding Falcon, also more cargo down throws near the edge. Ballsy Punch at 38:27, I like it. Be careful with those full jump huges near the edge. Overall, your Monk is looking pretty hairy, keep it up.
oh adam, you sure do have a way with words. thanks buddy. and yeah he never takes casuals seriously like an assssssssss so whatever :<
 

Эикельманн [РУС]

Banned via Administration
Joined
Jul 17, 2009
Messages
5,263
Location
Orlando/Владивосток
that sound quality lol goddamn. just pretend it's a combo video (basically was) and add some tight music.

just watched it all. initially i was planning to dissect the entire video mistake by mistake but i haven't done that in ages so i probably won't

biggest problems i personally saw were

1. fully charged punch being used on the opponent low to mid percent (only use mid percent vs light characters and near the edge of the stage).

fully charged punch against a character like fox is extremely valuable. you absolutely shouldn't be using it so freely as you did this set, as shown in the parts where you soon lost stocks and even suicided because of using it so early. you might get away with charging it upon throwing it away vs passive foxes like this one, but good foxes absolutely won't let you move enough to do it.

2. beating out side-b and understanding/predicting recovery patterns

mike uses side-b in an absurdly predictable way. simply speaking, side-b is his go to recovery option when he assumes it just won't be punished, which is conveniently a majority of the set. what i personally do is listen for the little "whoosh" sound the side-b makes upon commencing. you can't be missing these key punishes, especially at mid to high percents where counter-attacking will put you in a highly advantageous position. some easy ways to beat out side-b, and my personal favourites are: up-b onstage, off stage from ledge and to the ledge from stage (high percent), forward tilt (mid and high percents only), down tilt (low percents), and down-b if you're feeling extra spicy.

3. saving your jump when recovering

donkey kong's highly linear yet tricky recovery requires you to do everything in your power to mix up and utilise recovery techniques in unique and gimmicky ways. this means you shouldn't be using your jump every time after being hit close to the blast zone. save it. be aware of where your opponent is when you're recovering.

4. following up after cg

there were a handful of situations where you seemed stumped on what to do when you got a grab at certain positions. i try to personally have a go-to option for the majority of the cargo up-throw situations on every stage. i personally wouldn't ever recommend going for up-b strong hit out of throw in the center of the stage, and especially not on a stage as big as FD. keep track of percents for everything.
 
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phish-it

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 4, 2004
Messages
2,097
Location
Mahopac, NY
Ledges:

One thing I noticed not DK related but fundamentally related, is that whenever you grabbed the edge from recovering you would immediately try to get back on stage.Often times Kee Lime would would punish you for it too. 2:31-2:55 and 7:40 are examples of this. Sometimes it's best to wait, regrabbing the ledge for invincibility and find an opening to get back on stage. Sometimes you can ledge hop up B, but fake it by hitting them and landing back on the ledge, careful doing this vs Fox at low percents though to avoid getting crouch cancel up smashed.

Approaches:

Back air is good, but I feel like you tended to overuse it to much to the point where it got predictable. One of the hardest things with DK is approaching so this is difficult to avoid. Dash dance more in the neutral game and look for openings. Dtilt out of dash dance can be a nice poke as opposed to the high risk high reward grab.

Tech Chasing:

Many times Kee Lime missed a tech on the ground and got away with it unscathed. It takes some reaction but if the opponent di's your up air at low percent and hits the ground, jab reset them and regrab. This can make the difference in doing 20% off of a dropped combo or doing 80%+ and potentially killing them. Good players will mix their di up/ smash di the up air to make it more difficult to regrab at lower percents. You can sometimes chain throw a little higher but when their are platforms this isn't always ideal.Don't forget about using down b off of tech chases. There were a few situations where the opponent was knocked down after missing a tech. Down B out ranges get up attacks and can lead to a grab, up air or up b depending on how they di.

A good rule of thumb is:
If they miss a tech close to you, jab them.
If they miss a tech with some distance between you two, down b.



As far as giant punch goes, I tend to be a little eager with it too. It's extremely useful to have charged vs. fox but so often you get hit out of your up b and don't have that opportunity. Rather than waiting and not having the chance to combo into it, I sometimes use it as an approach/anti approach even when the enemy is at 0 because it can be a big momentum shifter. Giant Punch > tech chase down b works often times.

Nice Monk, keep it up.
 
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JRad

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 10, 2014
Messages
114
Location
Gainesville, Florida
Thanks for the responses. Any suggestions on how to deal with the firefoxes from diagonal below the stage. In the video i tried doing some invincible backairs when possible. I know that dtilt can be used without getting burned if I hit at the tip but its not powerful enough to kill fox in most cases and if I try to trade ftilt I have to hope that it is enough. I know I could wait on stage and try to hit him with a bair or some other more powerful move but I feel like that is risky.
 
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