The Official APEX 2012 Results Thread! ALL RESULTS UP. International takes it all!

Divinokage

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GGs guys, it was great fun playing lots of people. Perhaps in several months I'll get to play all of you again.. however for now I will be busy fighting real people. =)
 

Kewkky

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Hmm according to Selebu.'s post with the placings, only 22 of the 64 people used Metaknight in bracket. Meaning around 34% were metaknight.

That really isn't an exaggerating number imo.
To be honest, most people wouldn't want to practice their MK for this tourney, knowing the day after Apex MK's officially banned. Lots of work for nothing.
 

Krystedez

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MK isn't a "clutch"; he's a character. Just because SamusMain123 decides to handicap himself in regards to competitive play doesn't mean MKMain123 should be penalized for playing to win.

We are lazy. We can't deal with a character; we ban it. And even with evidence that higher developed metagames in other regions are handling MK; doesn't matter.

The ban is huge. No one wants to practice a character that could be banned in the future at huge tournaments. It has already made its mark on Apex 2012.
The thing is...

Overwhelming evidence that MK is an over centralizing character in the US -> Smashboards

Small bits of evidence that MK does not dominate nearly as much in Japan -> Japanese videos, japanese results

Very little evidence that Japanese players are "in fact" higher skilled and "in fact" have a better meta game -> ???

Fill in the question marks with whatever you'd like, but the stance stays the same; we've done enough research and statistical markup on this issue, plus a majority opinion to favor that MK is over centralizing and unhealthy for our metagame after 3 and a quarter years.
 

Omni

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MK IS a clutch. You can't tell me that MK isn't a clutch when we have a whole hoard of people falling back on him whenever they lose game 1/go against an MK main/get cp'd into Brinstar or Rainbow Cruise/get far enough into brackets. Top players and low level players alike, there's people using MK to hit on their personal worst MUs, even when there's other characters who do it better or if their MU really isn't bad at all and they're just lazy. People can't stand losing in tourneys or missing the prize money, so they take the fastest way of getting better, choosing MK when they need to. Not practicing with their mains or another secondary, just choosing MK. The base skill they have carries over to MK, and if they know enough about him, then. They're well on their way to victory already.
Nah. Brinstar/RC is clutch. Those same PocketKnights get exposed on neutral/starter stages. Choosing the best character in the game doesn't make that character a clutch. At the highest level of play, if you don't put in the work you get exposed.

MK is tough to beat using any character but MK, he's got a great MU spread that's to die for. Why should I practice Marth or Diddy or Snake if MK does it better? Most people who play against MK using their mains and lose think about using MK against their opponent's MK. Easiest way to take care of things, you instantly have an even MU. I personally think the root of the problem is all the data gathered (anti-ban forces pro-ban to dig data up from everywhere, pro-ban comes back with loadw of data that shows MK is the best character in the game, people see how MK wins a lot of the money and choose to use him to try and make money), but whatever it is, MK IS a clutch for people to use when their tourney placings seem threatened by anything.
Pretty much same as above. The thing is, too, that most PocketKnights are always exposed if they try to use MK vs. an actual MK main. I wish people would try to pick-up Metaknight and win a tournament as a challenge; 9/10 it ain't happenin'. Suddenly you learn as the best character in the game that you have to know every match-up to a tee because every player has oodles and noodles of MK practice. No more novelty effect.

Also, planking's gay to play against.
Ugh, planking is so gay.
 

Jim Morrison

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What the hellll only top 3 being paid

And my hatred for Hbox has risen to unmatched levels. The man single handedly ruined apex by knocking out crowd favourite mango and smash overlord mango, giving us the most ******** ****ing gay GFs I've ever seen and then he ****ing loses it anyway to Armada.

I used to cheer for him but I can see why everyone hates him now, count me one of them.
 

PGH Carroll

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This tourney was crazy.
People saying that axe is over rated need to shove it. The man places very high at nationals with freakin pikachu. Come on now. He had a bad day. He's proven himself in the past.

Progs the man.

The schedule was kinda dumb.
We just should run both games at the same time. In different sides just like every other national ever. IMO
 

Jim Morrison

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Also yes, a lot of bad decisionmaking at this tournament hoooly ****. Being behind 8 hours on schedule isn't acceptable you know. Don't try to cram 300 people into one day and expect to get to top 8.
 

xianglongfa

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I honestly believe that people who tout matchup numbers off of some super theory bull**** are ****ing *******. Do you honestly believe that the way in which Mango decided he would play against Armada was 70-30 in his favor? I'm sorry guys, but Mikehaggernoobblahblah is a ****ing ******, and you shouldn't let him get you all riled up. It is indeed Mango's fault he played that way, and it's a john for him to make any excuses, but that doesn't mean anyone can tout meaningless numbers like that.

Mad props to Armada for being the best player in the world. It's like HMW said, the player who wins is the player with the best mindset, and Armada clearly showed that he has the most indomitable mindset to complement his extraordinary skill.
 

Pikaville

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Armada and M2K teamed up?!

Wow how did that happen?

They must have planned it and been like "LOL lets clean up in doubles"
 

TheReflexWonder

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What the hellll only top 3 being paid

And my hatred for Hbox has risen to unmatched levels. The man single handedly ruined apex by knocking out crowd favourite mango and smash overlord mango, giving us the most ******** ****ing gay GFs I've ever seen and then he ****ing loses it anyway to Armada.

I used to cheer for him but I can see why everyone hates him now, count me one of them.
That's the nature of Melee, man. Jigglypuff is a good character, and Hungrybox is an excellent player. Not his fault that no one else can step up.
 

Coney

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was really irritating taking otori to game 3 and then just getting sharked over and over and over and not really having an answer

i understand why some people would be swayed to anti-ban after this, but personal experience pushed me in the other direction
 
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Shout outs to all the bronies, Stealth Raptor, and Ofcourse, Alex Strife.

Props to I believe it was Doom who was on the mic nearly the whole time. You really kept your composure and didn't freak out under the stress. Kudos.

:phone:
 
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So happy to see ESAM placing so well at this, though I definitely would have preferred to see him place 1st.
Too bad he's (apparently) taking a break from smash.
 

Kewkky

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Well Omni, when everyone has that mindset of "use the best options" we get a LOT of MK mains and M seconaries in our tournament scene. Yes, choosing the bst option available IS the smartest thing to do. But what if there's too many people choosing that option? Either it means that MK's far ahead enough that no other option can have the same results thus meaning Brawl's broken and we have to abandon the game for a better one or ban him as a last resort, or it means that we're all happy playing a game with almost everyone using MK even if they still suck with him.

Also, I believe that most people who seconded MK were still bad players, I used to beat MKs all the time as Kirby/ZSS, until I played someone who was more skilled than me or an MK main who practices with me enough to know my strategies inside and outside (even as I was developing new ones, who am I gonna develop them with? My training buddy who mains MK, of course :troll:). I have loads of improvement to go before I can say I'm a top player (especially now, blackwaltz doesn't seem as interested in Brawl as last year so I've had NO practice at all in too long of a time), but I can see that having even bad players second MK because he's "the best option" was a poison to our metagame. No one was getting better!
 

Omni

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So... you're saying bad players were trying to pick up MK, still failing, and just continued using them?

Lol.

It sounds like the issue isn't MK but the players themselves.
 

TheReflexWonder

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Are you sure you don't mean "Crutch" when you say "Clutch"? Because I thought that was like, a car part.
They're using the word weirdly. "Clutch" is a term that means something like "suddenly improving toward the end." If something is clutch (I've never heard it said as A clutch until their post), it is like, say, landing a gimp at the end of a match that you're losing a great deal. Clutch players are ones that are good at comebacks and the like.

was really irritating taking otori to game 3 and then just getting sharked over and over and over and not really having an answer

i understand why some people would be swayed to anti-ban after this, but personal experience pushed me in the other direction
I got scrooged by Kakera when I tried PT on Smashville. Never again. :(

That was my fault, but, in general, the fact that MK is extremely overcentralizing is pretty apparent to me.
 

Kewkky

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I'm saying it was big enough of a problem that even bad players were using MK to try and get better.

It's an overcentralization thing imho. I was always against MK's planking, but not directly against MK anyway. I understand that USA was moving along towards an MK-infested metagame though, which is why I'm okay with the ban. Glad, actually.
 

Coney

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Oh yeah, big shout out to coney! Wow man, Vinnie got exposed! You too Reflex!
well nah, vinnie and i's set was hardly worth talking about, we're in the same crew and were just messing around since we both made it to bracket by that point anyway, hahah

I got scrooged by Kakera when I tried PT on Smashville. Never again. :(

That was my fault, but the fact that MK is extremely centralizing is pretty apparent to me.
i mean, mine was kinda mine too--someone said to ban neutrals since it's all they play on, and i listened, so we went to two sharkable stages. the fact is, though, i abstained from taking a stance because i knew it was going to be mostly in self-interest. i don't care anymore though, genuinely tired of outplaying MKs and still losing :teeth:
 

Omni

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I'm saying it was big enough of a problem that even bad players were using MK to try and get better.

It's an overcentralization thing imho. I was always against MK's planking, but not directly against MK anyway. I understand that USA was moving along towards an MK-infested metagame though, which is why I'm okay with the ban. Glad, actually.
Ah, well that's cool.

The over-centralizing thing is pretty wacky. We see the same thing, but our lines of what over-centralizing is differs. It just so happens that more people in the US think the line has crossed. So then it is what it is.

I disagree with the ban, but I can't refute that there are a more amount of people who disagree with me. So in the end I'm just sittin' there like:

 
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If you want to be like the japanese then you can hardly just legalize MK without also using their stage system. Whatever feelings people may have about it I think it's rather obvious given the limited capabilities of humans being that US players wont be able to achieve the same focus and technicality in managing their characters if they need to know a bunch of stages as well.

Then again just ****ing keep MK banned for now. Your saltyness over losing to Japan is pathetic and even more so are all the turncoats.

Edit: In that photo a few pages back there's a guy in the background with a beard that looks like something an orthodox jew might have, and he's like doing the sieg heil gesture, wtf.
 

Kink-Link5

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I honestly like to think of the MK ban as Japan's Softban on Old Sagat in ST. He isn't the "Super best at everything" like Akuma, but he is too centralizing for too many other characters, that Japan simply chooses not to use him.
 

TheReflexWonder

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See, people get all up in arms about the ban because of Olimar and ICs doing well in an MK-dominated metagame, but, the only reason those character manage to reliably make it there is because they're among the very small handful of characters that have a decent matchup against Meta Knight. That's why those are the characters we see breaking out regularly.

Of course, they're excellent players, regardless of the metagame they play in, but, that's why things are the way they are, I'm convinced. The amount of variety that we would've seen would've been astounding. It was crazy to see so many fantastic players in one place.
 
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Thank you all for coming and playing. I hope you all enjoyed yourselves, and I hope to see you all in the later future at more events selling artwork and watching you all play.
 

MaxThunder

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and a note to everyone... punching hard objects cause you're angry is not smart... i can't play smash or keyboards for a while... i'm bored...
 

Omni

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@MaxThunder: No one knows. Stop spamming this thread for that request.

Edit: WELP. v That guy knows.
 
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