frotaz37
Smash Lord
I don't think it's that bad of an argument, because it points out how hypocritical the current laws are. I understand the point you're getting at, but still, nobody likes a hypocrite.
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The Obama Administration Officially Considers Marijuana To Be As Dangerous As Heroin
- Thread starter Glöwworm
- Start date
Again, no different than overindulgence in ANYTHING. Drinking too much liquor is bad for you, eating too much food is bad for you...hell, you can die from drinking too much water!
The potential for abuse and danger that comes with such abuse should not be the sole factor in looking to legalize or criminalize something...and it normally isn't, otherwise everything would be banned.
frotaz37
Smash Lord
Yeah, it's true... but I wasn't speaking in regards to whether or not it should be legal. I just though I'd point that out since people always bring up alternative ways of using cannabis in such a way that seems like they're suggesting that these methods remove all detrimental health effects, which I highly doubt they do.
On the flip side, I'm pretty sure there are beneficial cannabinoids that one can only get from it through smoking.
On the flip side, I'm pretty sure there are beneficial cannabinoids that one can only get from it through smoking.
Budget Player Cadet_
Smash Hero
There is no reason that Cannabis should be illegal. Backing this up is general freedom of the person, precedence, and the benefits that it has for the state. I don't have time right now, but suffice to say that several people, most notably Teran, are absolutely misinformed when it comes to the topic.
cannabinoids are effective antiemetics and very slight analgesics that are currently used medically as Marinol (synthetic THC capsules) and Satifex (cannabinoid oral spray for multiple sclerosis victims). There is no health benefit to smoking over practically any other method of ingestion.
frotaz37
Smash Lord
Not too sure about that... but hey, I don't feel like looking it up so I guess I'll just settle with not knowing XD
Strife
Banned via Warnings
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Yeah, Marijuana would help the economy quite a bit. But far more important is prostitution. If that were legalized the revenues stemming from it would be mind boggling.
America is in a crisis, and if we wish to save ourselves then I kinda think we need throw conservative values to the wind. I'm not expecting to even see any hope for the economy until the next election. Having a democratic president and republican congress is just ********. I can't imagine how the founding fathers saw this would be an effective system.
Claire Diviner
President
Doesn't there exist those high class prostitute houses (because this site censors the "W" word) that are actually legal to visit, which in turn is considered legal prostitution? I could've sworn there was some "bunny" ranch somewhere in the Nevada area in the outskirts of Las Vegas or something. If you're talking about the common form of prostitution, such as women walking street corners, then it's doubtful it'd ever be legal in that form. Heaven knows I wouldn't want that form to be legal with STDs running amok.
At this point, the current president and Congress will not save the economy, and thus you're right in reserving your hope for the next election. Like I've been saying, however, assuming this next election does nothing to save the economy, the only thing that will save us is another World War. I could go deep into the history, but I'll just say that WWII helped to get America out of The Great Depression.
Jim Morrison
Smash Authority
Should help to say that I'm playing devil's advocate here, I'd think it'd be super cool if marijuana became legal, but not under false pretenses. The sole reason for it to be legal is because you want to blaze and not fear a cop.
I think the way it is here is one of the best. It shouldn't be just like cigarette that you can just smoke them everywhere (except smoke-free areas ofc). There has to be regulation on where you smoke, at the very least.
I think the way it is here is one of the best. It shouldn't be just like cigarette that you can just smoke them everywhere (except smoke-free areas ofc). There has to be regulation on where you smoke, at the very least.
No. Possibility, not the sole thing that can save us.
They are called brothels.
and yes, I feel that not only prostitution would stimulate the economy, but it would sharply reduce STD spread and cases of prostitute abuse/****/murder.
but, since this is no longer a thread for many topics, I guess we aren't allowed to talk about this prostitution aspect of things, huh?
on the pot legality:
I don't think "medical dispensaries wanting not to be raided by FBI" is a false pretense for legalization.
Strife
Banned via Warnings
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A few counties in a single state(Nevada) have legalized prostitution. But that is just a fraction of the total prostitution in our country. I am in fact talking about the street workers but it couldn't operate as it is now. I am saying if they legal prostitution, making you need a license or so to operate then it could be a booming business. Women/Pimps wouldn't need to be out on the streets, and instead would have their own corporations for it. There is a whole lot of money to be made from it and I think it's just dumb that we're not.
Also to whoever mentioned the figure for Marijuana I'm pretty sure that estimate is based on the expected amount of circulating marijuana right now. It doesn't take into account that if marijuana was legalized, then a whole lot more people would be using it and therefore there is far more to tax. The same applies to prostitution.
Linguini
Smash Master
I've been thinking about this for a while, and it really frustrates me how difficult it is to make progress with certain issues in this government(not just cannabis). Democracy isn't a spectator sport, but for some reason the population has convinced itself that it is. That poll clearly illustrates a large shift in the attitudes of the general public with marijuana, yet the federal government acts as if it is a separate entity from the people. The truth is, it is; but it shouldn't be.
As I grow older and things move into perspective, I have realized just how ****ed up the system is. The founding fathers would be ashamed of what our "democracy" has become.
As I grow older and things move into perspective, I have realized just how ****ed up the system is. The founding fathers would be ashamed of what our "democracy" has become.
Claire Diviner
President
Has there actually been stories of medical places being raided because of medical marijuana? Or does that quote imply something else? In either case, I agree.
If only congress would get their extreme case of morals out of their ***es and realize this. But no, they're too damn conservative to know better. I mean, I know I can sometimes come across as conservative myself, but I know there are some things where being conservative should not really apply, and even then should only apply to one's personal life, rather than their vision on what they believe society should be like... if that makes sense.
You're most likely right. Hell, for all we know, there could be tens of thousands of people who would like to get blazed at least once, but don't due to the fact that marijuana is illegal. Hell, I'll admit, I have wondered what it would feel like to get "baked", but the illegal factor does prevent me from delving further on that curiosity. Even if it does become legal at some point, I may still refrain from trying it anyway, but who knows?
If you're saying what I think you're saying, then it appears you're expressing that despite the fact we live in a democracy, the government/Congress ignores the views of the people and go with what they themselves feel is the "right way". If that is what you're expressing, then yeah, I agree. Unfortunately, there's little that we people can do against such people with so much power. I mean, yeah, we can boycott, go on strike, riot, etc., but with Congress as stubborn as they are, I doubt it'd do much of anything to change their views on what the citizens believe.
It's safe to say the founding fathers' idea of what they believe is democracy has been warped. To what degree is debatable, but yeah.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/03/west-hollywood-medical-marijuana-raid.html
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/120912454.html
http://www.michigandaily.com/news/police-raid-two-ann-arbor-medical-marijuana-dispensaries
http://www.cannabisculture.com/v2/content/2010/06/03/Medical-Marijuana-Clubs-Raided-Quebec
Claire Diviner
President
So there has been raids of medical facilities using medical marijuana. So even with licenses, it will not protect them from the feds because they're illegal under law. So then what the hell is the point of having a useless license in the first place? It's this kind of hypocrisy that brings my piss to a boil.
frotaz37
Smash Lord
Prostitution is completely legal as long as you're filming it.
Fuelbi
Banned via Warnings
What I don't get is how other parties don't get a say in the government. I mean, there's the green party and etc that, although less effective to the general public, are pretty somewhat big and should at least get maybe 2 reps each. I mean I honestly don't get how a house full of republicans with a democratic president can do anything. Just because you're opinion should be good enough that it can believe 100 other people who don't agree with you, it doesn't mean that the opinion of the people who don't agree with you is entirely correct. I mean what kind of person believes that the country should stay perfectly where it's at and start taxing the poor instead of the rich? For real with a democratic president accomplishing change in a republican senate is mind boggingly difficult just because out of how convinced they are that nothing should be changed. If there were more parties than just the republicans involved, at least the voting would get somewhere. If anything the amount of other parties present to make a decision in a place like the senate should be determined by the amount of people in said party per state or in the country as a whole or something, instead of making it unanimously just democrats on one side and republicans on the other.
That said, don't most countries change their government structure after like 200 years tops or something? We're nearing our 300th and it's starting to show how outdated our government system is, and at least revamp or refine what we have now a little at least, and no, amendments don't count. I mean an actual change to the way stuff is run around here
And I still don't get what makes weed more dangerous than something like beer. Both cause you to alter your behavior, both cause death, etc. I mean, if the fear of seeing people doing drugs out there is bad, it honestly can't be any worse than a cigarette. I mean a cigarette is still bad for you, but no one complains. Obviously with weed you just need to manage how and where people are going to smoke it. Obviously make weed only zones and obviously keep the stuff out of the hands of anyone under 18. It's just common sense really.
Then I hear a cop doing a report on TV on why weed is evil, the reason being that it's a gateway drug, which is bull**** because the only reason why it's a gateway drug is because the drug dealer has other **** as well. I mean you go somewhere and try some weed and come back and see he has some coke or something and you decide to try that as well. It's not the drug's fault that the person who's selling them has other stuff in stock. There's absolutely no way you can smoke weed and then want to suddenly go out and smoke some coke all of a sudden unless you're a ****** who wants to die.
And then they also complain about how people will smoke the stuff without knowing the consequences, even though all that needs to be done is to simply educate the masses. I mean I learned in elementary that beer makes you drunk and smoking ***** your lungs, and now I know that I never want to smoke and if I drink I'll drink with moderation. Besides, all the stuff on TV that they have about potheads should show people what will happen to them if they smoke. I mean if you've ever seen something like South Park or Family Guy and see a bunch of potheads blown out of their brains, I'm pretty sure you'd take it as an indicator about what weed will do to you if you smoke it
Pluvia
Hates Semicolons<br>;
Peeze
Smash Master
^Ditto
Good post Frotaz
Good post Frotaz
they both cause death? what? Has marijuana killed someone that I'm not aware of? Even one person?And I still don't get what makes weed more dangerous than something like beer. Both cause you to alter your behavior, both cause death, etc. I mean, if the fear of seeing people doing drugs out there is bad, it honestly can't be any worse than a cigarette. I mean a cigarette is still bad for you, but no one complains. Obviously with weed you just need to manage how and where people are going to smoke it. Obviously make weed only zones and obviously keep the stuff out of the hands of anyone under 18. It's just common sense really.
Alcohol has an extremely significant effect on one's motor functions. It's not the same ballpark as marijuana at all. I think the alcohol-marijuana comparison goes about as far as "1 drink=1 bowl" but after that, the alcohol gets increasingly and exponentially more dangerous and inhibiting, while the weed, well, it's just not the same.
I'm not saying weed ISN'T dangerous. It does effect you, but it does not make you do things that you would never have done in the first place. A friend of mine left a party one night and crashed his car into someone's house. Another night, I went out partying and woke up on the beach covered in bruises and no recollection of the night. I'll let you guess what substances were involved, but here's a hint- it wasn't marijuana.
Jim Morrison
Smash Authority
I can only pull one more argument against it now:
It smells bad.
It smells bad.
Crooked Crow
drank from lakes of sorrow
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Heroin? The substance that is arguably more destructive than methamphetamine?
The United States government is spouting propagandist garbage left and right these days. Anybody who has a shred of critical thinking capabilities recognizes that this is absolutely false.
The United States government is spouting propagandist garbage left and right these days. Anybody who has a shred of critical thinking capabilities recognizes that this is absolutely false.
Not if it's good.
Claire Diviner
President
My thoughts exactly. I've had many bad experiences with alcohol, where I would wake up and not remember a damn thing. Of course, I've myself to blame for not drinking in moderation. Still, if I could choose between getting high for the first time, or getting ****faced, I may go with the choice that does not involve blacking out, vomiting, and potentially waking up in a place I had no business being.
That said, I'm still down for the Pokémon Bar Crawl the day before PAX East.
frotaz37
Smash Lord
My only problem with pot is all the addicts who won't shutup about how it's not addicting when they are clearly addicted.
Pot is addictive in the same way that chocolate or TV or the internet is.
It is not addictive in the same way that heroin, benzodiazepines, or crack is.
People like to look at it as an either-or situation. Either it's addictive and you're gonna get delirium tremens if you stop, or conversely, it is not even habit forming and you will never ever get an urge to smoke pot once you've initially done it. The truth is really somewhere in the middle, like most things in lif.
It is not addictive in the same way that heroin, benzodiazepines, or crack is.
People like to look at it as an either-or situation. Either it's addictive and you're gonna get delirium tremens if you stop, or conversely, it is not even habit forming and you will never ever get an urge to smoke pot once you've initially done it. The truth is really somewhere in the middle, like most things in lif.
frotaz37
Smash Lord
Comparing it to chocolate or television or the internet is not a good comparison at all.
People who habitually use or become dependent on marijuana experience withdrawal symptoms if they don't have it such as nausea, insomnia, anxiety, fatigue, photophobia, strobe light vision, and agitation. None of these happen when cut off from chocolate, television, or the internet.
And the thing is, a lot of people who use it end up using more and more of it because their tolerance gets higher and higher. So they end up spending more and more money just to get a fraction of the feeling that they used to get before it became a habit. This is addict behavior, and it's not something you see with any of the things you mentioned.
People who habitually use or become dependent on marijuana experience withdrawal symptoms if they don't have it such as nausea, insomnia, anxiety, fatigue, photophobia, strobe light vision, and agitation. None of these happen when cut off from chocolate, television, or the internet.
And the thing is, a lot of people who use it end up using more and more of it because their tolerance gets higher and higher. So they end up spending more and more money just to get a fraction of the feeling that they used to get before it became a habit. This is addict behavior, and it's not something you see with any of the things you mentioned.
Vinylic.
Woke?
I concur.
They moment they get addicted, they think it's normal when used. They won't stop doing the same thing over and over. Over a period of time without marijuana, they feel a very strong urge to get high and afterwards, they'll do it again. It's like they feel abnormal without it.
They moment they get addicted, they think it's normal when used. They won't stop doing the same thing over and over. Over a period of time without marijuana, they feel a very strong urge to get high and afterwards, they'll do it again. It's like they feel abnormal without it.
Falconv1.0
Smash Master
^This. And I've witnessed this **** with a few pothead friends who had to quit for one reason or another, near the end before they quit it was less like they 'felt' like smoking and more like they NEEDED to. Some people handle it worse than others but you can't just straight up declare no one experiences any negative side effects from it, that's just ****in' false.
Who said that?
and oh yeah, I remember having this exact debate with you before, frotaz. Perhaps I downplayed some of the "withdrawal" symptoms because they are an absolute joke to "real" withdrawal, as in from benzos, opiates, crack, alcohol and meth. I hate to word that in such a condescending and uncaring way, but until I see someone die of marijuana withdrawal, or have to be strapped to a table for days at a time I will never be able to take the idea seriously.
I concede that it is indeed addictive, physically, to a small extent. However, I personally find the addiction, from a physical and mental perspective, to be pretty miniscule in the overall scheme of things. Hence, why I'm not rescinding my internet metaphor. Marijuana's addictive power and its withdrawal symptoms are comparable to extreme internet overindulgence, or overeating...and hell, it's pretty tame compared to overeating as well.
but I might just be ignorant to studies about the topic. If you know of some non-anecdotes of marijuana addiction significantly affecting someone's permanent physical and mental health in a comparable manner to alcohol or opiates, I would love to read them. (except ones about the correlation between marijuana users and schizophrenics, I'm aware of those)
frotaz37
Smash Lord
Exactly.
It's great when people finally realize it. I can't stand how in denial people are about their addiction to it, even if that addiction is purely psychological. I swear, marijuana is the only drug where being a addicted to it is actually glorified.
I don't think marijuana causes long term health problems, but I do think it's extremely easy to become addicted to. It's pretty interesting because I think one of the biggest reasons is because there is no hangover at all. With almost every other drug, there's a period after (or even during) use where the user will feel like absolute crap. Since marijuana has such low toxicity and doesn't cause short term or long term health problems, there are way less reasons to NOT use it. I mean why not get high right? Gonna eat breakfast? Why not get high first so everything tastes better? Going out? Why not get high first so it's more fun? Going to work? Why not get high first so it's more bearable? Going to school? Why not get high first so it's less boring? Gonna play a video game? Why not get high first so it's more exciting? Gonna watch a movie? Why not get high first so it's more entertaining? Gonna play music? Why not get high first so you're more creative? Gonna write? Why not get high first so you have better ideas? I could go on forever....
I'm all for experimentation and occasional drug use, or medical use (even if it's self medication with no doctors involved). I'm also for legalization of all drugs. What I am not for, however, is drug addiction in any shape or form, let alone the ridiculous denial that comes with it, especially from marijuana users.
Falconv1.0
Smash Master
There are health problems with weed, just none that are like, super ****ing scary over what tons of other perfectly legal non drug **** can do to you, but yeah smoke and other **** going into your system regularly is going to have some long term effects.
I'm not really against it being legal, just putting that out there.
I'm not really against it being legal, just putting that out there.
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This is completely based in personal bias, but if making marijuana legal would making smoking cigarettes obsolete, then I'd completely support it. I hate the smell of marijuana, but cigarette smoke makes me want to kill people...
I don't see an ethical issue with it being legal, though. It doesn't affect anyone except for the user, so why not (well, I guess drug related crime? But isn't that a reason to at least decriminalize it?)?
I don't see an ethical issue with it being legal, though. It doesn't affect anyone except for the user, so why not (well, I guess drug related crime? But isn't that a reason to at least decriminalize it?)?
Awww, I was looking for non-anecdotes.
Vinylic.
Woke?
Pretty much this.
If you have heard anything Above the influence said about weeds, it's one weak reason.
This goes with the some other reasons from other people opposed to it as well.
Pluvia
Hates Semicolons<br>;
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Good point. And I don't really want to be the one saying, "Well, we should restrict where they smoke." But I guess that would have to happen, huh?What? Of course it affects others, it's smoke:
Try being near someone doing that.
There's nothing wrong with having restricted smoking areas, imo. If you want to indulge in an obnoxious habit like smoking in public you should be corralled to an appropriate area, away from people who would rather not be around it.
Crooked Crow
drank from lakes of sorrow
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Alcohol is significantly more harmful, but I think both should be legalized. We live in such a crooked society, where the substance gets blamed rather than the person abusing it past intended measures.
Some people have addictive personalities- or are just plain moronic. Why should the entire human populace of any single country be classified together? How is marijuana harmful in contrast to the several, more dangerous tobacco, alcoholic, and pharmaceutical substances that are legalized?
Marijuana is not banned because of its inherent, detrimental properties- it cannot be controlled the same way. This means it's also harder to tax.