The Obama Administration Officially Considers Marijuana To Be As Dangerous As Heroin

[Glöwworm]

I was thinking if it was possible to have a somewhat of a social thread here for news that aren't that important to merit its own thread but would still be nice to post it for other people to know. I know there's a Youtube thread but I figure this thread should serve purpose for things that are news related. So if this thread isn't allowed, you can lock it I guess.

Anyways, I'll start with the first video:


"The Obama Administration Officially Considers Marijuana To Be Just As Dangerous As Heroin!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lg5I4ILM44

 

[Vinylic.]

Well, I guess this would sound good if there was any minor news shared.

But I don't think this will work overall,


And the administration is such bull****.
If marijuana kills, then why the hell are they not banning cigarettes?

That stuff kills people ten fold.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Hehe, the administration should know that cigarrates are already killing thousands, we all know Mary-Jane is bad and dangerous already. :/

 

[Falconv1.0]

And the administration is such bull****.
If marijuana kills, then why the hell are they not banning cigarettes?

Is that an actual question or...? I mean it's kinda obvious, there's too much ****ing money in those cigarette corporations and whatnot, plus the addiction is fairly widespread. Same with booze.

 

[Teran]

Tobacco is far too cemented in culture, and there is a key difference between tobacco and weed or heroin.

Cigarettes have a very mild narcotic effect, I mean yes it is frighteningly addictive but it doesn't cause you to trip balls, lose motor function, act out in a psychotic rage etc.

Cannabis may be less physiologically damaging than tobacco (well lung wise anyway), but when you get high, you lose a significant level of alertness, THC is classified as a hallucinogen, and even though it isn't exactly LSD, it causes a warped perception of reality and a loss of motor/mental function. Not to mention people may possibly go psychotic on it, and it can cause schizophrenia in those prone if used chronically. Cigarettes just give you cancer if used chronically, which don't make you an immediate threat to society.

Booze does obviously cause many more bad mental effects, but there are a **** ton of restrictions on who can drink, what they can do under the influence, so basically they're trying every possible way to control a problem that basically can't be stopped with complete outlawing.

Cannabis has never been a universally acceptable recreational substance, and so basically it's not so big a deal to keep it outlawed. People who say cannabis isn't dangerous are naïve and are basically only interested in making it legal so they can blaze in peace.

I mean there's nothing wrong with wanting it legalised, but championing some bull**** notion that it is safe as an ice cream cone is just absurd, and shouldn't be done.

 

[frotaz37]

Not to mention people may possibly go psychotic on it, and it can cause schizophrenia in those prone if used chronically.

I'm pretty sure this is made up. I could be wrong but I have yet to see any real evidence to support this. I don't know if the hallucinogenic effects of the drug are strong enough to cause this kind of permanent mental damage.

Cigarettes just give you cancer if used chronically, which don't make you an immediate threat to society.

Cannabis doesn't make anyone an immediate threat to society. While it's true that cigarettes don't, suggesting that cannabis does is pretty silly... unless you consider waiting for stop signs to turn green a great threat to society I mean obviously there are certain jobs that you don't want people to be on drugs while doing, but usually if a person is intent on doing a drug, whether it's legal or not is not going to effect their choice.

Cannabis has never been a universally acceptable recreational substance, and so basically it's not so big a deal to keep it outlawed. People who say cannabis isn't dangerous are naïve and are basically only interested in making it legal so they can blaze in peace.

Um, it was universally acceptable until about 60ish years ago. What do you think paper was made out of?

I mean there's nothing wrong with wanting it legalised, but championing some bull**** notion that it is safe as an ice cream cone is just absurd, and shouldn't be done.

I would wager that ice cream is more dangerous to your health overall. Do you know what's in ice cream?

http://www.rense.com/general38/pus.htm

 

[Falconv1.0]

People who actually think how dangerous it is to your personal health has any bearing on why weed is outlawed really need a better grip on reality, and better search skills with Google.

Also it's still iffy on how badly weed affects society, although there's no way it's anywhere nearly as bad as booze.

 

[Luigitoilet]

Cannabis has been used medically and therapeutically worldwide, since BC, so Teran you might want to clear up what you are talking about there.

also anyone who wants to discuss this topic particularly the schizophrenia/thc relationship should read some of this:

http://www.scielo.br/pdf/bjmbr/v39n4/6164.pdf

 

[Teran]

Cannabis has been used medically and therapeutically worldwide, since BC, so Teran you might want to clear up what you are talking about there.

So have opiates, so many of which are highly illegal without prescription.

Cigarettes are the best remedy for irritable bowel syndrome.

So no, I don't have to clear up anything.

I'm pretty sure this is made up. I could be wrong but I have yet to see any real evidence to support this. I don't know if the hallucinogenic effects of the drug are strong enough to cause this kind of permanent mental damage.

No it is not made up, and I mean psychosis under the influence, people have killed while high. Oh no they haven't Teran, prove it.

Yeah okay because I'd just make things up which is apparently what you think.

Cannabis doesn't make anyone an immediate threat to society.

Smoke bud, get in a car, you are a threat. Smoke bud at work, operate dangerous machinery, you are a threat. As you can see this goes on and on.

While it's true that cigarettes don't, suggesting that cannabis does is pretty silly...

No it isn't because cannabis has a strong intoxicating effect. You'd be happy to say booze causes all sorts of knock on possible dangers, why can't cannabis be seen in the same light when the things that make them so immediately dangerous is pretty similar?

unless you consider waiting for stop signs to turn green a great threat to society I mean obviously there are certain jobs that you don't want people to be on drugs while doing, but usually if a person is intent on doing a drug, whether it's legal or not is not going to effect their choice.

Well then don't hire the ****, just as if an employer knows you're an alcoholic, they probably won't hire you.

Um, it was universally acceptable until about 60ish years ago. What do you think paper was made out of?

Hemp =/= smoking cannabis, and it was outlawed in like the 20s as a drug, along with the crowd favourites like cocaine and heroin. Cannabis has been illegal for about 3-4 generations, I think it's safe to say that in modern society, it has never been a socially acceptable drug.

would wager that ice cream is more dangerous to your health overall. Do you know what's in ice cream?

http://www.rense.com/general38/pus.htm

Sux to be American

Anyway, cannabis is still smoke, it contains all sorts of harmful chemicals, it can cause all sorts of mental issues with chronic use.

I mean look, I have nothing against weed, trust me I've done much more question things, but like I said I take serious issue to people thinking "oh just legalise weed politician ***holes it's like not even bad, man!"

 

[Luigitoilet]

So have opiates, so many of which are highly illegal without prescription.

Cigarettes are the best remedy for irritable bowel syndrome.

So no, I don't have to clear up anything.





[/COLOR]

LOL. That's not what your original point was LOL.

"Cannabis has never been a universally acceptable recreational substance, and so basically it's not so big a deal to keep it outlawed."

that's what I was responding to. saying "so have opiates" in response to my correcting you completely ignores your original point and certainly doesn't clear it up.

How does the existence of medicinal use of opiates in times past somehow make this statement a true one:

"Cannabis has never been a universally acceptable recreational substance, and so basically it's not so big a deal to keep it outlawed."

I mean, it's just an incorrect statement. Saying some other random thing that's tangentially related doesn't make the first statement automatically correct.

 

[Teran]

Because cannabis being a socially accepted medicinal substance are a far cry from use for recreational purposes, which is basically what most would like to do.

Nobody's against a morphine drip, but shooting up in the street is far from acceptable.

So my original point is right, never in recent history (I guess I should have said) has cannabis been a socially accepted RECREATIONAL substance and you know it.

 

[frotaz37]

No it is not made up, and I mean psychosis under the influence, people have killed while high. Oh no they haven't Teran, prove it.

Yeah okay because I'd just make things up which is apparently what you think.

lol wut. I'm not saying you're making things up. I just know that a lot of anti-marijuana information can be traced back to the ridiculous smear campaigns from the early 1900s, which claimed to have all this scientific information or about how bad marijuana is without actually doing any experiments or tests. It's not that you're making things up, it's just that a lot of the generally accepted information about cannabis is not scientifically sound.

Smoke bud, get in a car, you are a threat. Smoke bud at work, operate dangerous machinery, you are a threat. As you can see this goes on and on.

How many car crashes are caused because of cannabis? How many deaths from operating machines while under the influence of it? Yeah it's easy to say "It's intoxicating so it's dangerous" but unless there are real numbers to back it up, there's no reason to believe what you're saying.

No it isn't because cannabis has a strong intoxicating effect. You'd be happy to say booze causes all sorts of knock on possible dangers, why can't cannabis be seen in the same light when the things that make them so immediately dangerous is pretty similar?

It's totally different. The biggest difference in regards to driving is that alcohol makes a person less cautious and more willing to take risks, while cannabis usually has the opposite effect. People who are drunk can't even walk in a straight line...I doubt the motor impairment of cannabis is anywhere near as intense as alcohol.

Hemp =/= smoking cannabis, and it was outlawed in like the 20s as a drug, along with the crowd favorites like cocaine and heroin. Cannabis has been illegal for about 3-4 generations, I think it's safe to say that in modern society, it has never been a socially acceptable drug.

Well you didn't specify that before. You just said "Never", which isn't accurate at all so I was like DURRRRRR..

Sux to be American

It's not just America. Actually last time I checked, the only difference between European and American dairy is that Europe allows slightly less pus content. It has the same disgusting **** in it and is still linked to countless degenerative diseases.

Anyway, cannabis is still smoke, it contains all sorts of harmful chemicals, it can cause all sorts of mental issues with chronic use.

I mean look, I have nothing against weed, trust me I've done much more question things, but like I said I take serious issue to people thinking "oh just legalize weed politician ***holes it's like not even bad, man!"

It's obviously not a completely harmless substance, as direct smoke comparison between cannabis smoke and tobacco smoke shows it has a lot of the same chemicals/carcinogens. It's also psychologically and even slightly physically addicting, which is a fun little fact that stoners love to deny: "I can stop anytime I want, I just don't want to" ...hmmm nah you're a drug addict.

However, it definitely has medical value unlike recreational drugs that are currently legal, and for some reason, unlike tobacco and alcohol, studies show that it doesn't cause nearly as many health problems. It's the most mild and least harmful of all drugs, and while that's obviously not a legit reason to change a law in the eyes of politicians, it certainly isn't untrue.

The reason it should be legal, along with most other drugs (maybe all of them) is because governments spend trillions of dollars putting minor drug offenders in prison with murderers and rapists, which in turn causes them to become violent criminals, which increases crime overall. Also, people who end up selling/using drugs are often impoverished, so the war on drugs ends up being the war on poor people.

Also, because drugs are illegal, it creates and entire black market sub-society run by giant drug cartels who are not only violent, but also rich, which allows them to buy out corrupt politicians, who then continue to support the drug laws in order to protect their profits. You can see countless examples of this in Mexico, Central and South America, and maybe even Africa.

Also also, cannabis is used in certain religious practices, so it could be argued that making it illegal infringes on the right to freedom of religion. This argument could be used for all drugs, honestly.

Not only that, but hemp is a great solution to a lot of deforestation, which is causing all kinds of environmental problems that I don't even want to get into.

 

[Claire Diviner]

Isn't marijuana legal in California now? That aside, if you look back during the days of prohibition, alcohol was outlawed and dealing in alcohol carried penalties. Years later, it became legal again, despite the mental effects it has on those who abuse it, age restrictions or not. With marijuana penalties showing a slow nerf (for lack of a better term) in today's time - Massachusetts having recently decriminalized marijuana - I'll hazard a bet that if not in our lifetime, then perhaps during the lifetime of the next generation, the outlawing of marijuana would be lifted and have restrictions on it in the same manner as alcohol. Just my two cents, anyway,

 

[Glöwworm]

Isn't marijuana legal in California now? That aside, if you look back during the days of prohibition, alcohol was outlawed and dealing in alcohol carried penalties. Years later, it became legal again, despite the mental effects it has on those who abuse it, age restrictions or not. With marijuana penalties showing a slow nerf (for lack of a better term) in today's time - Massachusetts having recently decriminalized marijuana - I'll hazard a bet that if not in our lifetime, then perhaps during the lifetime of the next generation, the outlawing of marijuana would be lifted and have restrictions on it in the same manner as alcohol. Just my two cents, anyway,

Yes, marijuana is legal for those with a medical marijuana card. Still illegal under federal law, though.

 

[Claire Diviner]

Yes, marijuana is legal for those with a medical marijuana card. Still illegal under federal law, though.

Ah, that's what it is. Well, I still predict that marijuana will be legal at some point down the road. I mean, I can imagine the kind of money this country could make if they legalized, manufactured and even taxed marijuana. Would it fix the economy? Well, maybe put a temporary band-aid on it, but I'm sure it could be beneficial in some way... or completely hindering depending on the path it goes.

 

[Glöwworm]

Yeah. So basically all 50 states can have marijuana be legal (whether for recreational or medical use) but people can still get arrested if it's illegal in the federal level since federal laws trumps state laws.

 

[Jim Morrison]

As a Dutch person, I happen to be an expert on this topic.

My scholar opinion: Don't legalise, just keep doing it illegal. What would you want it legal for? You want it legal just to get high, any other reason is utter bull****. You can get high, even if it is illegal, but what is life without some civil disobedience. If you do it in your home and don't cause trouble, then problems with the law will not arise.

If you legalize it, it will hardly become more socially acceptable. Over here, it's still looked down upon by a lot of (older) people if you smoke a joint now and then.
The only legit argument I can come up with, is that if it's not illegal, you get rid of your contact with shady dealers. However, over here, the problem has just shifted. The coffeeshop owners are the ones who have to deal with the shady dealers, since they can't grow or buy it legally.

 

[Fuelbi]

I want to say weed should be legalized, but that's mainly so that rock groups can start smoking the **** again while writing their music. I don't want weed to be legalized because if it does that means I'm going to see A LOT more potheads on the streets and honestly, hippies piss me off.

Asides from that though, I want weed to be legalized in every way, and no I don't plan on smoking a joint, I simply believe that weed ethically should be just as allowed as smoking or drinking something legal. I mean, I'd you smoke weed and then you become a threat to everyone at work and on a machine, even though beer or any other form of alcohol will do the same thing. Sure people might say a bottle won't do **** to you, but chewing a marijuana leaf doesn't do anything as harmful as being drunk or high anyway (btw dont quote me on that but I recall hearing that in places like Chile or Colombia or something, people can just pick off a marijuana leaf and chew on it to alleviate things like headaches and ****. Could be weed or could not be, I can't remember). I mean if anything beer does the same amount of stuff as a joint does, but in bigger amounts to be achieved and with slightly different effects.

Yeah I don't know I'm probably not the greatest source of an opinion ever, and I'm probably wrong on a lot of things, but that's my opinion on weed legalization

 

[frotaz37]

Steadfast, I think the leaf you're thinking of is the coca leaf, which is what cocaine is made from.

 

[Jim Morrison]

I mean if anything beer does the same amount of stuff as a joint does, but in bigger amounts to be achieved and with slightly different effects.

Nah, being drunk and high is veeery different. It depends on the kind of weed and how strong it is. With the strongest stuff I've seen, one was still able to think logically, physically, however, everything is just more sensitive. You can perform tasks with the same precision, but your timing might be off and you'd probably perform a lot slower.

Being drunk, you have terrible coordination and are in no condition to work. I think you'd be worse off showing up to work very drunk than very high.

If weed was legalized, no one would go to work while high anyway, just like you don't get to work when drunk, because everyone will notice and you'll get laid off immedeatly and also get bad rep.

 

[Fuelbi]

Steadfast, I think the leaf you're thinking of is the coca leaf, which is what cocaine is made from.

Oh my bad then, I knew it had to be one of those drugs

@Guus, I see, I didn't know. Either way, you shouldn't drive while high as you shouldn't while drinking. I honestly don't see what everyone's problem with people smoking are since they're a danger to everyone around them, if you're already a danger to everyone around you while drunk

 

[Jim Morrison]

Well, the problem is that it's just a bad argument. Drinking already brings a lot of hazards, why would you legalize something that would bring about hazards similar to drinking? I know smoking itself has never killed someone, but the possibilities of idiots using it at very wrong times can lead to problems.

 

[Mic_128]

We don't need a social thread.

 

[frotaz37]

If weed was legalized, no one would go to work while high anyway, just like you don't get to work when drunk, because everyone will notice and you'll get laid off immedeatly and also get bad rep.

Unless the manager is always high, and the owner is always high, and everyone else working there is always high.

Trust me...it happens ALL the time.

But I mean, this is America, which is pretty much a nation of drug addicts... so I'm not really sure how things work up where you are.

 

[Fuelbi]

Well, the problem is that it's just a bad argument. Drinking already brings a lot of hazards, why would you legalize something that would bring about hazards similar to drinking? I know smoking itself has never killed someone, but the possibilities of idiots using it at very wrong times can lead to problems.

Because just like a lot of people want to drink a lot of people also want to smoke

I'm not sure if it'd be as bad as the prohibition of the 1900s where people were doing underground alcohol stuff and were robbing stores for the stuff, but I'm pretty sure a lot of people want to be able to use it just as much as they want to be able to drink, and seeing as smoking a joint brings less harm physically to one as drinking a beer would, I don't see what the problem is. I mean, drinking can lead to problems such as kidney failures while weed hasn't been proven to cause any adverse side effects besides the bull**** excuse that it's a gateway drug, which is ****ing stupid because it's only a gateway drug to begin with is because it's legal, leading to many drug dealers to sell them along with other drugs such as heroin, which people will actually be stupid enough to buy, again leading to teh fact that weed is illegal because it's a gateway drug

 

[Claire Diviner]

"The Obama Administration Officially Considers Marijuana To Be Just As Dangerous As Heroin!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lg5I4ILM44

Well, Lawrence O'Donnell said it all. This video is the clear winner in the game of political news.

 

[Glöwworm]

We don't need a social thread.

Did you not read the OP?

@sol diviner

Yeah, I'm kind of wondering if people actually watched the video as there are no comments about it o.o

 

[Luigitoilet]

We don't need a social thread.

It wasn't actually a social thread. It's a thread for smaller news stories that don't really deserve entire threads dedicated to them. I think it's a good idea.

some reasons I would want pot legalized is not risk prison time, unreliable and often times drug-addicted salespeople, a consistent quality of product and service, etc etc.

 

[Claire Diviner]

It wasn't actually a social thread. It's a thread for smaller news stories that don't really deserve entire threads dedicated to them. I think it's a good idea.

some reasons I would want pot legalized is not risk prison time, unreliable and often times drug-addicted salespeople, a consistent quality of product and service, etc etc.

Would the "etc etc" include helping the economy? I could be wrong, but I think if they had a legit business in distributing, selling, and taxing marijuana, the country could see a rise in capital. I mean, we have what is now the second biggest debt in the country's history (or was it second largest debt in the world?). So I say Congress better start making moves in trying to make some money for this country, lest we end up losing to the yen, and then we'll really be up **** creek without a paddle.

 

[Mic_128]

It wasn't actually a social thread. It's a thread for smaller news stories that don't really deserve entire threads dedicated to them. I think it's a good idea.

Why? This was supposed to be one of those 'too small for it's own thread' topics but it's spawned 2 pages of discussion already.

 

[Luigitoilet]

Why? This was supposed to be one of those 'too small for it's own thread' topics but it's spawned 2 pages of discussion already.

Ok ay.

Would the "etc etc" include helping the economy? I could be wrong, but I think if they had a legit business in distributing, selling, and taxing marijuana, the country could see a rise in capital. I mean, we have what is now the second biggest debt in the country's history (or was it second largest debt in the world?). So I say Congress better start making moves in trying to make some money for this country, lest we end up losing to the yen, and then we'll really be up **** creek without a paddle.

I believe so. It's taking money from illegal drug distributors hands. money which is being laundered and moved outside of the official infrastructue. I can only imagine that it would stimulate the economy a bit to tax and regulate it.

 

[Glöwworm]

Why? This was supposed to be one of those 'too small for it's own thread' topics but it's spawned 2 pages of discussion already.

Because nobody has added a different topic lol.

 

[Jim Morrison]

The 6.2 billion dollars it is estimated to bring in in tax revenues is almost nothing compared to the total taxes collected (about $2,1 trillion). Some of that also has to be spent on the regulation of the marijuana and everything around it. The government doesn't just collect money from legalization, it also has to pay for it. It it also a hazard to national health (as is taking any form of smoke into your lungs).

Sure, it'd be a nice side effect, but it's definitely not good enough a reason to bring as a main argument.

 

[Rici]

Yes 6.2 billion = nothing.

Not even worth it people.

 

[Glöwworm]

It it also a hazard to national health (as is taking any form of smoke into your lungs).

Solution: edibles and widespread use of vaporizers.

I also hope you're saying this with cigarettes in mind.

 

[Claire Diviner]

Solution: edibles and widespread use of vaporizers.

I also hope you're saying this with cigars and cigarettes in mind.

Pretty much took the words right out of my mouth (or keyboard, in this case). People can piss and moan about how hazardous it is to one's health, but they oftentimes leave out cigarettes and cigars from their argument. The only reason tobacco is legal is because of the market it has had in the past. I mean, I could be pulling at straws here, but if tobacco didn't have the financial success that it did, it may have ended up being as illegal as marijuana.

 

[Vinylic.]

The solution to end smoking is to make alternatives.

As in "electronic" Alternatives.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Solution: edibles and widespread use of vaporizers.

I also hope you're saying this with cigarettes in mind.

I had those in mind as well, I also really wouldn't mind seeing them go.

I'm not saying the estimated 6.2 billion dollars isn't a lot, it's huge, but I tried to put it into perspective. I agree that the use of vaporizers should be spread on a large scale, but the large majority of users will most likely keep on burning it, producing smoke. Edibles take some time to prepare, and the main problem of them is the fact that a lot of people are uneducated of their effects and how it differs from smoking.
It takes an hour, maybe two, for the high to start setting on, so people might think they didn't eat enough and eat more and more, the same danger as with shrooms. This will result in a much heavier trip that they didn't expect. Also, the high can last up to 8 hours, which is a very long time.
Edibles are fun if you are educated.

 

[frotaz37]

There are definitely more healthy ways to get the job done than smoking... however, I'd have a hard time believing that constantly bombarding your brain and body with hallucinogenic compounds poses no health risks at all.

 

[Pluvia]

Also, saying X is more dangerous than pot, therefore pot should be legalised, is a terrible argument.