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The North Carolina Melee Power Rankings! Updated 8/14/14!
- Thread starter Dr Peepee
- Start date
lmao woz had an awesome sig gtfo =p
it WAS hypnotic though.....
also cam the one(main) trap creative people CAN fall into at times is they miss some fundamentals working so much on their creativity! you have plenty of great ideas, but, as I told you before, if you get better you can execute them that much better. I know you know this but it's important information to remind one of as well as make public imo.
rofl at kage comments XD
Twitch and I played sick Melee tonight. I in particular felt quite well about my game when I wasn't mentally tired(an issue I hope to rectify with exercise and maybe diet or something but probably just exercise lol). Darn Y membership needs to come through....
Falcon/Fox is such a hard and strange matchup. I've clocked sooo much time in it as Falcon and am still incredibly confused about it lol. I'd probably have to record myself or something to solve it.
Falcon/ICs blows for ICs. Omg so wonderful to tear them apart as Falcon though LOL.
No I didn't play Falco tonight gtfo. Lots of Falco tomorrow though so I'm hyped. =p
it WAS hypnotic though.....
also cam the one(main) trap creative people CAN fall into at times is they miss some fundamentals working so much on their creativity! you have plenty of great ideas, but, as I told you before, if you get better you can execute them that much better. I know you know this but it's important information to remind one of as well as make public imo.
rofl at kage comments XD
Twitch and I played sick Melee tonight. I in particular felt quite well about my game when I wasn't mentally tired(an issue I hope to rectify with exercise and maybe diet or something but probably just exercise lol). Darn Y membership needs to come through....
Falcon/Fox is such a hard and strange matchup. I've clocked sooo much time in it as Falcon and am still incredibly confused about it lol. I'd probably have to record myself or something to solve it.
Falcon/ICs blows for ICs. Omg so wonderful to tear them apart as Falcon though LOL.
No I didn't play Falco tonight gtfo. Lots of Falco tomorrow though so I'm hyped. =p
Sneak8288
Smash Champion
Shoutout to woz. He's the one who got me into competitive melee and taught me how to play spacies pretty much from the ground up. Took me to alot of tournaments like mlg and pound when I was like 17.
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Pal was originally 50 fps or had a 50 fps version I think, but they found a way to convert it to 60 though, I forget how. They def don't play tourneys on 50 though lol
Dark Hart
Rejected by Azua
The game wouldn't be the same with 10 less frames... It'd probably be either super janky, or super broken, or super janky broken.Pal was originally 50 fps or had a 50 fps version I think, but they found a way to convert it to 60 though, I forget how. They def don't play tourneys on 50 though lol
SK919
Deal with it
It's not 10 less frames. It's 10 less frames per second. This is a speed not a subtraction from the frame data which is absolute.
For example, if you had a computer that ran at 1 frame per second... the worst computer ever... Falco's shine would take a full second to come out.
For us it comes out in 1/60th of a second because the game is 60 fps and falco's shine is one frame.
For example, if you had a computer that ran at 1 frame per second... the worst computer ever... Falco's shine would take a full second to come out.
For us it comes out in 1/60th of a second because the game is 60 fps and falco's shine is one frame.
AlcyoNite
Smash Champion
eh...if only
SK919
Deal with it
If only sheik took skill 
AlcyoNite
Smash Champion
Pitzer
The Young Lion
I agree with that postIf only sheik took skill
bossa nova ♪
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2010
- Messages
- 2,876
she takes skill, just far less than usual
Moophobia
Smash Champion
More than peach IMO
Falco just has a longer jumpsquat animation.
iirc Fox is 3 frames to jump and Falco is 5, so it takes longer to cancel the shine.
iirc Fox is 3 frames to jump and Falco is 5, so it takes longer to cancel the shine.
~Twitch~
Smash Master
ACE are you moving?! 
SK919
Deal with it
lol I think a lot of shiek's MUs are pretty easy to play out but she's got to work though vs. a lot of characters... fighting technical spacies with her is pretty hard imo. You gotta really know your options and be able to react quickly to windows of opportunity. I think falcon shiek is a lot more difficult than people think.. against a technical falcon..
Every character is pretty hard to bring to a high level of play. I feel like it's hard to become a top sheik because combos an' reactions cant take you too far with her. Your decision making skills are crucial.
Not to say that spacies don't need to make good decisions... falco definitely dies.. fast but sometimes we get away with stuff land them raw hits and get off lol
Peach is easy to play against people who don't know how to fight her but against more knowledgeable players I think things change. She's really easy to combo and easy to avoid if you know how to move around her weaknesses. Plus some of her match ups are pretty whack.. fighting marth and falcon with peach can be a challenge..
I try not to look at difficulty based on technical barriers because at higher levels it becomes more and more arbitrary.
Every character is pretty hard to bring to a high level of play. I feel like it's hard to become a top sheik because combos an' reactions cant take you too far with her. Your decision making skills are crucial.
Not to say that spacies don't need to make good decisions... falco definitely dies.. fast but sometimes we get away with stuff land them raw hits and get off lol
Peach is easy to play against people who don't know how to fight her but against more knowledgeable players I think things change. She's really easy to combo and easy to avoid if you know how to move around her weaknesses. Plus some of her match ups are pretty whack.. fighting marth and falcon with peach can be a challenge..
I try not to look at difficulty based on technical barriers because at higher levels it becomes more and more arbitrary.
Pitzer
The Young Lion
Don't forget get Young Link too
Peach is only easy to combo if you keep it very simple lol. Otherwise you risk getting nurrd
Sheik just has to learn to be tricky with her zoning because her mobility screws her over at times.
Yes I am simplifying.
Sheik just has to learn to be tricky with her zoning because her mobility screws her over at times.
Yes I am simplifying.
Pitzer
The Young Lion
I wish my character's entire moveset combo'd into fair..
Sneak8288
Smash Champion
lol why? Roy's fair is still *** lol
vZakat
Half Genie
Dems fightin words.
lord karn
Smash Master
Pretty sure Falco's is 4, bc his shine takes one frame longer.
I also think sheik is one of the hardest characters to play at high level. Her and peach are the only top tier characters that actually have glaring weaknesses.
Bl@ckChris
Smash Hero
sheik has a glaring weakness?
that's news to me -_-
only glaring weakness that ***** has is her other half getting kidnapped all the goddamn time.
that's news to me -_-
only glaring weakness that ***** has is her other half getting kidnapped all the goddamn time.
Lightsyde
Smash Champion
Extremely well put. Glad that phrase carried some weight after I explained it.
I guess you didn't notice those words under my name. haha
“It was like a bird of rarest-spun heaven metal or like silvery wine flowing in a spaceship, gravity all nonsense now.”
It's a phrase from A Clockwork Orange (a term used for the liquid creation of self replicated code) which I talked/wrote about a great deal in my notes during the peak of a trip of sorts. I spent the next day with Cam after my trip and we spent a lot of time talking about the nature of creation. That's not to take away from the fact that those notions stuck with Cam and he made it his own, which is more than I could hope for.
lord karn
Smash Master
her shorthop combined with not having a hitbox that hits below her easily.
Bl@ckChris
Smash Hero
oh.
i thought she had needles for that.
if her needles didn't angle downward, i feel like that'd be a lot more of a problem. but since they do...meh, maybe it's just cause i play ganon, so i'm RARELY able to get below the *****.
i thought she had needles for that.
if her needles didn't angle downward, i feel like that'd be a lot more of a problem. but since they do...meh, maybe it's just cause i play ganon, so i'm RARELY able to get below the *****.
DJRome
Smash Hero
sheik is pretty bad when above most characters
Lightsyde
Smash Champion
Honestly, most floaties are pretty bad when above most characters.
See: Marth, Sheik, Peach and Samus especially.
See: Marth, Sheik, Peach and Samus especially.
Bl@ckChris
Smash Hero
honestly, most everyone is pretty bad when above most everyone else.
see: everyone.
see: everyone.
Lightsyde
Smash Champion
If they are in hitstun, well yeah.
But I assume we were talking about in general, in which case Falco, Fox, Falcon and Ganon are pretty dangerous to approach from below.
.............................
Bl@ckChris
Smash Hero
yeah, ganon/falcons stomp can be a pain to deal with if we're paying attention.
also, our bairs do pretty good once we get out of the way. ganons angled down fairly well.
ganon from below is so much stronger though. loveeee my uair loool.
also, our bairs do pretty good once we get out of the way. ganons angled down fairly well.
ganon from below is so much stronger though. loveeee my uair loool.
lord karn
Smash Master
Nah, needles don't really get the job done. They only go diagonal, and if she doesn't have a pretty big store of them they aren't much help, anyways. Diagonal needles are by far the best from platforms, but doing short/full hop needles is really easily baitable/punishable.
Yeah, like Josh said, most floaties are pretty bad from above, but a combination of things makes it by far the worst for sheik. Since sheik's jump is super high and she is floaty, any time you jump into the air, you are going to be there for a long time (unless you land on a platform).
This leads to two problems. Some characters, especially fox, can just run up under her when she jumps because it takes so long and hit her. This makes it so that Sheiks have to be very wary of jumping into the air, which leads into the second problem: stage control. Since she has to remain grounded a lot of the time, it's pretty hard for her to use aerials to get people into their shields. When she jumps, the opponent has more time to augment their spacing to make it bad for sheik than they do vs. other good characters. This is why an Amsah style sheik that relies on a lot of aerials can only work if you really have your opponents number. On top of this, all of her tilts are ccable until around 60/70 percent, so her only tools vs. a low percent opponent are needles, grab, and utilizing platform wavelands to avoid her jump height weakness (the shorter the platform the better it helps, which is just another reason why sheik is good on Yoshis/FoD).
So at low to mid levels of play, Sheik is really easy to play. She has easy combos and pretty straightforward edgeguarding. Players aren't good enough to take advantage of her big weakness and not consistent enough to avoid her amazing/easy punishment game. This results in two main styles of Sheik at high level.
The safer way to play Sheik is to stay grounded most of the time, use really good spacing/precision to bait aerials and get grabs (which is difficult because her dash dance sucks), and to capitalize heavily on mistakes. This is usually how m2k plays, which is why you see him staying near the edge so much; he gets a few hits either from a mistake or with good spacing and usually takes a stock.
The other way to play sheik is the amsah way. Get into the head of the opponent, condition them not to punish your jump, and then abuse sheik's really good aerials/combos/everything.
Then there is the kdj style which mixes the two in an amazingly beautiful way.
Don't get me wrong, sheik is amazing, but I just think her weakness is really glaring. Fortunately, her strengths are too.
Dark Hart
Rejected by Azua
That jumping thing makes no sense to me
Probably why I'm bad
Probably why I'm bad
lord karn
Smash Master
Sheik's jump takes like 2-3 times as long as other top tier characters'. This means that it takes her a lot longer to put an aerial in a threatening space. This means that the other character has more time to react to your jump and get into a more optimal space to defeat the possible aerial.That jumping thing makes no sense to me
Probably why I'm bad
This is also why fox is so good, because he has the shortest window between jump and aerial becoming threatening.
Dark Hart
Rejected by Azua
Wow...
I have no idea how to start thinking like that
I have no idea how to start thinking like that
bossa nova ♪
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2010
- Messages
- 2,876
haha
i was gonna put "like human semen" but that sounded like i was trying to be funny. and i remember that phrase when i see you on smashboards, so i decided to switch that in....
it's technically inconsequential to the idea, though.... i was describing something that i literally feel, and it had little to do with our discussion. that phrase was mostly just bad*ss filler. thanks for the bad*ss filler though.
Lightsyde
Smash Champion
I mean our discussion was about why you (everyone) literally feels that once they get to understanding creativity. I think therefore I am is synonymous to I create therefore I am.
And like I said, it's a concept you made your own and explained your own way because you understand it your own way. It's the same universal notion/truth/feeling/whatever about creativity though.
And you're welcome for the phrase, regardless. haha
I read 5 the other day, but eh it just matters that his is slower lol.
I have no sympathy for Sheik at high level. That character is great then too, it just requires some thought like it does for all of the other top characters. Peach, if we consider her top tier, certainly has it the worst out of all of them being as slow as she is without much aid for speed beyond faster FC moves.
I'm pretty down with this way of thinking. DD on the ground and a falling dude in the air=lol.
All I have to say about this is Amsah does what anyone else could be expected to do, he covers the weakness with solid play. Let's not also forget that one can actually turn a weakness into an advantage at times. A small part of my example related to this with Sheik would be that her SH is deceptively long and she can FF at many different times during it. This leaves room for a lot of baiting and, really, approaching as well due to how hard it is to adjust for all of the different spacings and timings made possible by Sheik's SH and FF possibilities.
I won't argue that it's not a weakness, but I don't think it's as glaring as it's made out to be here. I would find Peach's weakness to be much more apparent and difficult to circumvent because there isn't much one can do about being slow except for playing as fast as possible and otherwise reading super hard since you can't do as much as faster characters(neither of these actually solve the issue when put up against equally intelligent/technical opponents).