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The North Carolina Melee Power Rankings! Updated 8/14/14!

$mike

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 7, 2010
Messages
683
Location
North Carolina
kyle rhodes, pack your recording setup and that *** in your car and come to gboro.

once im back of course

EDIT:

as a bonus, me and cam will teach you how to **** at 64 too. he's god awful in that game though.
 

Bl@ckChris

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 4, 2009
Messages
7,443
Location
Greensboro, NC
yo mike, it'd be cool if you could teach me 64. i never played it.

i agree, coming to greensboro would be a good decision for you, especially once mike is back. I guess once sneak hosts something, make sure you're able to make it or something.
 

SK919

Deal with it
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
846
Location
wilmington, North Carolina
Getting hit is the worst thing that can happen in a fighting game. I don't know how you improve smith but in the long run your goal is to not get hit and to figure out how to hit them. The process in doing so is a lot more complicated than the statement. It's simplified

Shed some light on what you think. "LOL" isn't helping ocean that much.
 

Dr Peepee

Thanks for Everything <3
Moderator
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Messages
27,766
Location
Raleigh, North Carolina
Yeah yelling that at people works really well sometimes LOL

Other times they think I'm belittling them and it's totally ineffective. XD

More fun than figuring out getting hits or not getting hits after a while is all that stuff that comes in the middle. That's technically a part of both but it really deserves its own section since there's SO MUCH one can do in that interval, at least given all of the movement options and multi-height/platform shenanigans one is capable of.
 

Juno McGrath

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Messages
8,240
Location
Raleigh, NC.
where does melee take place?

is it the video game characters fighting on the television?

or is that too simple?



i think it's clear that Ocean's dilemma is far too complicated to solve without giant walls of text, but it's just simple enough for anyone to conclude that your problem, Kyle, is that during your smash matches, your mind is not focused enough on the right things.


the human brain is programmed to constantly improve its circuiting, and this is especially effective for tasks that are most REPEATEDLY performed. the extent to which you have improved and continue to improve at handling knives, remembering recipes, and applying your senses have collectively contributed to your overall skill at "cooking."


so it's evident that in order for you to improve in melee, you have to focus on something that you have, up until now, perhaps COMPLETELY NEGLECTED. this something would probably come up short if attempted to be explained briefly (like most common expressions that you truly can't understand until you feel from every angle through real-life experience), but no matter what it is, it HAS to contribute to your confidence level, and therefore it probably can't be found on smashboards.


play with someone. record your videos. then, please, for god's ****ing sake. go talk to Dr Peepee. have him critique those videos. it's a shame that such a valuable source of insight is taken for granted in a state with so much potential.
 

Dr Peepee

Thanks for Everything <3
Moderator
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Messages
27,766
Location
Raleigh, North Carolina
yusss i thought you quit! :bee:

and how i get better is i just kinda...think about what happened the last time i played kevin and then do better next time. i started doing this for a couple weeks now and it's making him mad so there's that...i guess, i don't know anything about this game.
Play me tomorrow I'll rage quietly quit sandbagging me
 

AlcyoNite

Smash Champion
Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
2,332
Location
**** Triangle, NC
Getting hit is the worst thing that can happen in a fighting game. I don't know how you improve smith but in the long run your goal is to not get hit and to figure out how to hit them. The process in doing so is a lot more complicated than the statement. It's simplified

Shed some light on what you think. "LOL" isn't helping ocean that much.
I agree with your equation 100% bryan

And then there was CC'ing which made everything stupid
And then there was Falco's CC destroying dair -> shine which made everyone go :(

Yeah yelling that at people works really well sometimes LOL

Other times they think I'm belittling them and it's totally ineffective. XD

More fun than figuring out getting hits or not getting hits after a while is all that stuff that comes in the middle. That's technically a part of both but it really deserves its own section since there's SO MUCH one can do in that interval, at least given all of the movement options and multi-height/platform shenanigans one is capable of.
Proof that people's barrier to improvement is their attitude/mindset. If one of the greatest melee players of all time decided to give me advice and my only response to it is "ur making fun of me so i dun wanna listen :mad:," how can I ever expect to improve!?!?!?!?

/serious question

Praise him

This made me lol hard
 

Dr Peepee

Thanks for Everything <3
Moderator
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Messages
27,766
Location
Raleigh, North Carolina
Man you can't full on CC Falco's Dair but you kinda can. I'm fine with no one agreeing with me on that one though LOL

And everyone would just CC the shine and fall over then(Fox and Falco do, but I haven't tested with everyone), leaving teching potential open and Falco loses combos that way so bleh CC is still dumb. Oh yeah or they won't go up as far as usual.
 

lord karn

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 18, 2004
Messages
4,324
Location
Raleigh, NC
Man you can't full on CC Falco's Dair but you kinda can. I'm fine with no one agreeing with me on that one though LOL

And everyone would just CC the shine and fall over then(Fox and Falco do, but I haven't tested with everyone), leaving teching potential open and Falco loses combos that way so bleh CC is still dumb. Oh yeah or they won't go up as far as usual.
Unknown released a video a while ago about ccing falco's dair. Doesn't work all the time, but it can if it is a delayed dair hitting you, I think.
 

Dr Peepee

Thanks for Everything <3
Moderator
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Messages
27,766
Location
Raleigh, North Carolina
Unknown released a video a while ago about ccing falco's dair. Doesn't work all the time, but it can if it is a delayed dair hitting you, I think.
CC'ing can work if the Dair is delayed, or not?

Disgusting? What do you mean?
I'm just kiddin lol that's a good idea. Basically I was trying to say that's disgusting in a bad way for Falco. XD
 

Lightsyde

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 11, 2007
Messages
2,871
Location
The Rocks of Time, NC
Getting hit is the worst thing that can happen in a fighting game. I don't know how you improve smith but in the long run your goal is to not get hit and to figure out how to hit them. The process in doing so is a lot more complicated than the statement. It's simplified

Shed some light on what you think. "LOL" isn't helping ocean that much.
I think you should not tell people incorrect things like "getting hit is the worst that can happen", if this was supposed to be related to Melee.

I want to propose a concept that I've been talking about that I do a lot that REALLY works.

It's called "taking a hit on purpose." EDIT: This is a similar notion to crouch cancelling, but a lot more vast and underused. I am not the first person to do this by any means, but people do not talk about what I'm proposing seemingly ever so I hope you'll read what I say.

This game has something extremely unique to it: the combination of different types of DI, crouch cancelling, teching and edge cancelling. It changes everything in this game; rather, it adds an extreme extra layer of player interaction. It basically introduces a different type of counter play, aka a lot of inputs and reactions done while being combo'd.

Frequently in my experimenting with this concept, I've used moves that I know for a fact will put me in a position to be hit in a manner of my choosing. For an example, imagine charging a DSmash with Falco. You have set yourself up to do a move that is obviously not going to hit and you know (if you've been studying their patterns and know the match up) roughly what'll they try to punish you with based on their positioning. If they hit you, VERY frequently you can hit down + shield and tech the hit in place. Playing a character with a fast tech in place (spacies are amazing for this reason) allows you to absorb a contrived hard hit, especially at lower percents, tech in place, and stand and Shine or at very least, be in a position they weren't expecting.

Yet another example: lately when I mess around in friendlies and I'm way ahead with Falcon, I'll try to Falcon punch people. When it's obvious that they are not going to be hit, I prepare to tech their hit, immediately do so, stand and punish them. The fact that you can instantly tech almost every hit on reaction completely changes the notion of "don't get hit." Of course it's good not to take damage as a general plan, but you have to also consider that getting hit with all the crazy available defense options that CCing/teching/DI'ing offer, is just another mix up for your game play.

This is not limited to just doing laggy moves though. A lot of my combos I get to work with Falco, especially vs Marth or Fox, involve me doing to something I recognize as an over extension before I do it; however, the risk is negligible if I am already planning on teching the timing/limited moves I can be hit with, while the reward is often very great. Even if you miss the instant-tech I mentioned above, planning getting hit gives you insight and control of what comes immediately afterwards.

Also, as a nice bonus, if you try the insta-tech thing and are not doing a laggy move, rather just standing there, doing it far too early makes you spot dodge (they miss anyway) or powershield (frame advantage).

Basically what I am saying is, and what people think they understand but they haven't conceptualized to what degree, is that this game is about scenarios. These scenarios happen fast enough that people are normally content with binary thinking about getting hits; that is, YES I hit them, NO I missed them, conversely, YES they hit me, NO they missed me. But if you think about it more like Chess, which it's more similiar to than most fighting games, you should see the need for sacrifice for better situations/positions.

It honestly does not matter if you get hit if you've already predicted the manner in which they will hit you, because you will be prepared to react to that situation; you'll be ready to tech, ready to DI well, ready to slip out in any number of ways. The reason why combo'ing seems so ridiculous in this game (especially in the presence of skill gaps) is that combo skills come as a result of tech skill practice, often against computers, defensive tech skill (anti-combos, if you will) comes from a whole whole lot of experience at being combo'd hard by good players who combo well. Why does it seem like high level players are SO hard to kill? Because they are seeing another level of defense and recovery that you haven't observed yet.

Going back to my initial point, I can't say for sure what pros actually plan when, how and why they get hit, but I would be immensely surprised if this was not already in great use at high levels, intuitively at the very least. Ever since I've started doing this (really utilizing all the defensive techniques + purposely over extending to make situations look much better than they are) I have a much easier time a) living b) getting out of combos, even Kevin's, c) winning against almost everyone.

EDIT: Also relavant to conversation, if you see that you are going to get hit and can't tech it, try to reposition yourself as much as you can before the hit itself. You moving last second before a hitbox connects means you go in a different direction/angle/spacing than they were seeing when they started their move. Run into them a little further or try to cross them up even though you're going to get hit. Jump right before Falcos Dair hits you so you aren't in stun. Repositioning yourself as much as possible in the middle of combos is ESSENTIAL for getting out, especially if you've figured out the feel of edge cancels and insta-techs.

If I need to expand further on this, or this sounds ridiculous, please ask me rather than immediately rejecting this, or even better, try it for yourself.
 

Lightsyde

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 11, 2007
Messages
2,871
Location
The Rocks of Time, NC
seems more like an exception rather than a contradiction
Perhaps you're right about that, but I was mainly just going with a stark contrast to saying "getting hit is the worst thing that can happen in a fighting game." I went on to try to clarify better in saying "It changes everything in this game; rather, it adds an extreme extra layer of player interaction."
 

bossa nova ♪

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 15, 2010
Messages
2,876
very very good point from the syde where light meets dark



creativity is what's so exciting about these games... making and destroying things for your opponent to see or to not see. i got the same «URK» sort of feeling when i read slasher's statement, so i'm glad someone put it into good terms...



for me, it's clear that super smash brothers: melee isn't a fighting game. for the sake of english, we'll call it one, but it def needs to have its own category. i think i'll call it.. super smash brothers: melee.




also, yes. shoutouts to TJ. oh my god you are raw imaginative material and it's bright and beautiful.
 
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