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The "Noob" Jigglypuff Stage Discussion (Week 7 - Norfair)

Noobicidal

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*Credit to MenoUnderwater for making that awesome image.


This thread is the Noob and Improved Jigglypuff Stage Discussion. The purpose of this thread is to discuss various stages and assess how effectively Jigglypuff can fight/get screwed over on said stage. The word "Week" is relative to the amount of discussion the current stage receives; a hated stage may be breezed through while a favored stage may take up the allotted week. Following this set format while posting isn't necessary, but it certainly helps.


Post Format

  • Rating: What would you rate the current stage as?
  • Pros: What are our advantages of this stage?
  • Cons: What are our disadvantages on this stage?
  • Counterpick Against: What characters would you recommend counter picking this stage for?
  • Ban Against: What characters should we ban this stage against?
  • Summary: Your closing statement regarding the stage.


If you feel as if something HUGE was missed during a previous stage discussion or if you find out something new about a previous stage, don't hesitate to inform us.


Archive of Discussions:

Week 1 - Pictochat
Week 2 - Brinstar
Week 3 - Castle Siege
Week 4 - Rainbow Cruise
Week 5 - Frigate Orpheon
Week 6 - Delfino Plaza
 

Noobicidal

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Week 1 - Pictochat


Rating: :jigglypuff: :jigglypuff:

Pros: "Large top blastzone protects against early upwards deaths, short side blastzones for easier kills"
Cons: "Almost no area below the stage, going off stage is severely restricted because of it. Side blastzones can also cause you early deaths. Random percents and kos due to the level"
Counterpick Against: :fox:
Ban Against: :kirby2:

Summary: "I do not like this level for Jiggs. At all. If this level gets CPed on me, I switch characters. The random percent you might take from the hazards matter way more for us, we have to constantly play to keep our percentage as LOW as possible, we can't afford a few stray % points. Watch out for Kirby on this level, I play against two really good Kirby's on a frequent basis, and one of them has so many tricks on this level it's mind blowing. Plus his Fsmash will kill us EARLY. Pick this level against Fox, the random platforms that spawn will limit his movement severely, and he generally kills upwards, take that advantage away from him." - PNDMike


Week 2 - Brinstar


Rating: :jigglypuff: :jigglypuff: :jigglypuff: :jigglypuff:

Pros: The small dimensions of the stage improves Jigglypuff's offstage game as well as strengthening many of her kill moves (namely Rest). The acid may be used to protect yourself from an offstage Rest as well as offering a costly 7th jump in case you use up your jumps when attempting an offstage gimp or kill. The vegetation on the stage offers a way to de-stale your moves, which helps for when the opponent gets in kill range. The permeable bottom floor allows for flexibility when recovering, and also the ability to attack while underneath the stage (sharking).

Cons: The small dimensions works against us as well, and Jigglypuff is susceptible to even earlier deaths. Rollout's usefulness is also limited due to the vegetation joining the stage halves together. Poor sharking can also lead to on-stage spikes from the opponent.

Counterpick Against: :rob: :diddy:

Ban Against: :lucas: :wario:

Summary: This stage is one of Jigglypuff's bread and butter stages and should be treated as such. High risk/high reward comes into play here.



Week 3 - Castle Siege


Rating: :jigglypuff: :jigglypuff: :jigglypuff:

Pros:

Stage 1 - The actual stage is fairly small, which keeps you close to your opponent. The main goal of Stage 1 is to damage your opponent and possibly get an early gimp kill. The lips of the stage may hinder some recoveries, but certainly not Jigglypuff's.

Stage 2 - The statues offer a way to refresh your moves and protect against projectile spam somewhat. Rest's hitbox also increases when resting a solid object such as the statues. The walk-off sides can lead to early kills.

Stage 3 - "It's like lylat cruise and FD had a child, and I love it. The tilting is actually great for us, as the level can tilt away from someone who is about to grab the ledge, or it can allow us new approach options or chasing options. Bair them into a higher portion and having them tech can be a free rest or rollout. Hopefully you've freshened up your moves enough to abuse the opponent on this part. Go for the kill, and soften them up for the transformation." - PNDMike

Cons:

Stage 1 - Below the platform on the left side offers an excellent camping position.

Stage 2 - Having a floor shuts down many potential kill options. While the walk-off edges may lead to early kills, please remember that you're Jigglypuff; we're dying first.

Stage 3 - This is only 1/3 of Castle Siege.

Counterpick Against: :bowser2: :dk2: :ike: :ness2:

Ban Against: :marth: :falco: :diddy:

Summary: In order to do well on this stage, you must be able to change play styles and adapt to every segment of the stage. It's not one of her best stages, but she does very well on Stage 1 and 3.

Week 4 - Rainbow Cruise


Rating: :jigglypuff: :jigglypuff: :jigglypuff: :jigglypuff:

Pros: Jigglypuff is a character who loves to take to the skies, and Rainbow Cruise forces this. Aside from the boat, there are VERY few edges for opponents to grab onto, which makes gimping exceptionally easy. Jigglypuff's high airspeed allows her to stall and aircamp like the best of 'em, hopping from platform to platform, and waiting for the opportunity to capitalize on the opponent's mistake of following her. Transitions 1 and 2 have a relatively high ceiling, which helps prevent untimely deaths.
Rest also kills retardedly early during Stage 3 and 4.

Rainbow Cruise also has a bit of an "unknown" factor; the opponent not knowing the stage layout can work GREATLY in our favor.

Cons: Stages 3 and 4 have EXTREMELY low ceilings, and being the lightest character doesn't help very much. The close left blast line during the ascent can work against us, and you could possibly be carried away during the falling portion of the stage.

Counterpick Against: :diddy: :snake: :ganondorf: (lol)

Ban Against: :metaknight:

Summary:


Week 5 - Frigate Orpheon



Rating: :jigglypuff::jigglypuff::jigglypuff::jigglypuff:

Pros: During the first transition, the right side lacks a true ledge, which can screw over "precise" recoveries such as Marth and Ganon. If they choose to recover high, we can punish RCO lag, and if they recover low, they risk not getting onstage at all. Luckily, Jigglypuff is not limited in this way.

Frigate is known for it's flipping mechanism, which eases our gimping game with little risk for us. Jigglypuff will should NOT die from a stage flip (aside from a near-flip Rest), even if she happens to get "trapped" underneath the stage.

The side blast lines are fairly small, which can make Fair and gimp kills a bit easier.

Cons: Many of Frigate's cons comes from the center platform transition. We lose our recovery advantage due to the right side getting it's ledge back. The "dip" in the stage is more beneficial to projectile-wielding characters (aside from perhaps Falco and Fox) due to the relative safety the dip provides. The overhead platform and stage depression can make our approach a living hell against these characters.

Counterpick Against: :popo::wolf::zelda::ike::falco:

Ban Against: :rob:
Let it Rip!

Summary:


Week 6 - Delfino Plaza



Rating:
Pros:
Cons:
Counterpick Against:
Ban Against:
Summary:


Week 7 - Norfair



Rating:
Pros:
Cons:
Counterpick Against:
Ban Against:
Summary:
 

SummonerAU

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Going to attempt my first writeup just because the Jigglypuff boards appear to be in decline. I actually want to learn more about this stage myself in regard to Jigglypuff.
* Rating: 2.5/5
* Pros: -
Intial form: High edges and long sides great for gimping.
Secondary form: Statues can refresh moves and stop projectiles. Meh
Final form: Great for gimping under the stage. Basically a smaller version of FD without a lip.

* Cons:
Intial: Great camping spot on the left side of the stage
Secondary: Character with great horizontal pressure games can force you off the sides.
Final: Basically the same as FD. Projectiles and the like
* Counterpick Against: Ness, Bowser, Link, Ike, DK
* Ban Against: Marth, Falco, Diddy Kong
* Summary: A solid stage but there are better stages that focus on character's disadvantages than this. Best part of the stage is the final transformation. I find Delfino to be better in almost all of the aspects Castle Siege covers.
 

Noobicidal

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I appreciate the input.

If there's no other discussion (LOL), I'll go ahead and do the writeup tonight and we'll start a new stage tommorow.
 

Noobicidal

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wish i could say something, but i don't really go to this stage so much
That's a good point. I'd prefer to talk about "unknown" stages to get them in the light more so to speak, but hardly anyone plays on them. Next discussion will probably be another "bread and butter" stage for Jiggs.
 

PND

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My strategies for Castle Siege:

First part:
The level is small, which is good as it allows us to keep pressure on the opponent. The platforms are small enough to tech chase rest on, but be wary of characters who can just undercamp them. Push the opponents off stage and bair them under the lips of the stage for easy gimps, follow the bair with a ledge hog if necessary. Basically, the overall strategy on this portion is get them offstage and gimp them. . . failing that, just try and get as much damage on them as you can.

Second part:
The nightmare. First concern: there is a floor. Ergo, you can't gimp your opponent or harass them offstage. Oh ****. Walk offs can lead to early KO's both for and against you, but with our lightweight I prefer not to take that risk. On this section I just air camp, staling my uair and freshening the rest of my moves on the statues whenever I get a chance. Go into avoidance mode.

Third part:
It's like lylat cruise and FD had a child, and I love it. The tilting is actually great for us, as the level can tilt away from someone who is about to grab the ledge, or it can allow us new approach options or chasing options. Bair them into a higher portion and having them tech can be a free rest or rollout. Hopefully you've freshened up your moves enough to abuse the opponent on this part. Go for the kill, and soften them up for the transformation.

Unrelated: That quote for Pictochat was actually mine.
 

Noobicidal

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Corrected. Any suggestions for the next stage? I'd prefer not to do starters due to the discussions always dying then.
 

M-WUZ-H3R3

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YES! An excellent stage that hasn't been given the attention it deserves. I'll give Castle Siege one more night of dedicated discussion.
Rainbow cruise is a great stage for jigglypuff. It gimps with you :laugh:.

Your opponent (Who obviously has a weaker recovery than you.) struggles to keep up with the intense speed of the cruise. You are jigglypuff and the stage is making your job easier.

Gimp.
 

Noobicidal

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Well, it seems as if we have our Pros and Cons already!

Should we discuss the individual parts of the stage? You'll make 4 complete revolutions per 8 minute match, so you'll need to be able to adapt to each section.
 

illinialex24

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Or just adapt to one and avoid all the other parts. I've done that before, played only the 4th part and planking or avoided the opponent the rest of the time. Took 3 revolutions + some to complete the game, but yeah, it was cool.
 

PND

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During the boat phase, I plank. A lot. The platform layout hurts more than helps, so I usually stick off the rear of the boat, or front of the boat if I feel like it, and just wait for the rest of the stage. During the second phase, the vertical scrolling, I go to town on the opponent. Always where they will be, not where they are. If you can force them to have to use their recovery, all the better. You can bounce them around on the pendulum's donut blocks, potentially even getting the kill if they fail to tech.

During the third phase, the horizontal scrolling part, I play cautiously. Always be to the right of the opponent, make them come to you. I actually find rollout is viable up here, the changing slopes / terrain and off platform layout allows me to hop on a platform while its offscreen, charge, and release knowing that the opponent won't know where I'm going with it.

On the last phase, the falling phase, I either ride a donut block down or take the normal route. For the donut route, if I see an opportunity to uair or pound the opponent, I do it for the kill. If not, I fall to the front of the ship nd being planking. For the normal route, same thing, except I sometimes wait on the under platform and dash grab to uthrow for the kill. Or fall to the rear of the boat.
 

M-WUZ-H3R3

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And you also get KILLED at about 20% there......
Oh right I forgot that the damage ratio is set to high whenever you play on that stage. Or is that premature death part of your playing experience?

Could you explain the variables that make an aware player die on this stage? Jigglypuff has a pretty big advantage on a stage that literaly moves in her favor.

EDIT: Oh, it must be the high altitude and low air pressure outside that forces the air inside Jigglypuff to expand resulting in the bursting of her thin elastic surface.

*pops around 20%*

On the last phase, the falling phase, I either ride a donut block down or take the normal route. For the donut route, if I see an opportunity to uair or pound the opponent, I do it for the kill. If not, I fall to the front of the ship nd being planking. For the normal route, same thing, except I sometimes wait on the under platform and dash grab to uthrow for the kill. Or fall to the rear of the boat.
There's yer con

You can't fall very fast and can die easy here.
 

illinialex24

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Try surviving on the top part of the stage where you can barely float around and can't really avoid anything and not die before like 60%. Just try it, its pretty **** hard.

This stage also has way too many platforms to make it effective for planking, or gimping, and so even though it moves, unless your playing Olimar or Falco, its not that good.
 

M-WUZ-H3R3

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Try surviving on the top part of the stage where you can barely float around and can't really avoid anything and not die before like 60%. Just try it, its pretty **** hard.

This stage also has way too many platforms to make it effective for planking, or gimping, and so even though it moves, unless your playing Olimar or Falco, its not that good.
*sighs*

So i'll have a better chance gimping someone on Final Destination? Maybe the background will give them the illusion they are being shaken off and that'll hinder their recovery ability.

You should ban this stage against characters with good recovery. Meta Knight, Pit, and Wario. The basic feture of this stage is the movement, so thats obviously an advantage to anyone that can float around it safely.
 

illinialex24

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*sighs*

So i'll have a better chance gimping someone on Final Destination? Maybe the background will give them the illusion they are being shaken off and that'll hinder their recovery ability.

You should ban this stage against characters with good recovery. Meta Knight, Pit, and Wario. The basic feture of this stage is the movement, so thats obviously an advantage to anyone that can float around it safely.
Yeah, but in Brawl characters are floaty. The fast fall speed of fox in Brawl is like the fall speed of Jigglypuff in melee, exaggerating but its much different for fall speeds, much different. Its hard to find a character stuck below on their own accord and if you've got multiple ledges, its very hard to guard that.
 

M-WUZ-H3R3

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Yeah, but in Brawl characters are floaty. The fast fall speed of fox in Brawl is like the fall speed of Jigglypuff in melee, exaggerating but its much different for fall speeds, much different. Its hard to find a character stuck below on their own accord and if you've got multiple ledges, its very hard to guard that.
*grunts in annoyance*

Yes, but you are Jigglypuff! In the SSE there is a wind room in a jungle area with air pushing up. You are the only character that accualy goes up slowly with the wind.

Jigglypuff is the lightest character. Didn't you say Jigglypuff dies around 20% there?

A good idea with this stage disscussion would be to accualy test the variables rather than just talking about it.

For example, someone plays as Link (bad recovery) and someone plays as Jigglypuff. The person playing Jigglypuff focuses on gimping the Link player the entire match, and the Link player resists.

Yey, we have a result!
 

M-WUZ-H3R3

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Right, so don't choose a stage where the link has options where to recover.
True, the platforms do help your opponent significantly.

But you still have a better chance to gimp. While they are going for these recovery options, you can stop them.
 

rinoH

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Rainbow Cruise too me is a great stage for jiggs because you can get some easy kills with rest and its easy to plank. Also there is short blastzones to the side so you can kill around 80-90% with fair. One last thing is that its a great stage to get early kills if you gimp right like when you to the top of the stage where all those platforms appear and disappear at.
 

M-WUZ-H3R3

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Rainbow Cruise too me is a great stage for jiggs because you can get some easy kills with rest and its easy to plank. Also there is short blastzones to the side so you can kill around 80-90% with fair. One last thing is that its a great stage to get early kills if you gimp right like when you to the top of the stage where all those platforms appear and disappear at.
I see another con :laugh:

Rest is a risky move to do here because if you miss (or hit...) you might over lap the blast box. You could also be put in the position where you can be killed at low percentages. This would be right next to the blast box.

Resting isn't a good idea.

Now that I have seen some of the dangeres of this stage, I'm going to give this a 6 or 7 out of 10.

Rest dosn't need to be used much when there are great gimping options on this stage, but it is an important move that could give you easy kills on this stage's low cieling. (especialy on the top of the stage.)
 

PND

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One thing about this level: from my personal experience, a LOT of people waste their ban on this level. If you can take them here, they'll probably be ill prepared for it.

Now, conversely, I love this level. I play it all the time in friendlies and stuff, and it's in my top 5 favorite levels. I am so used to this level, I know exactly when all the changes will happen, even for Snake. So someone who knows the level to a similar degree will not likely be hindered by the level, save for some very exploitable character traits in certain cases. Due to this, even against characters that you think you should destroy (Say, Snake) you may find yourself going even, or swaying between advantage and disadvantage as the level changes.

Simply put, know the level, learn where the boat will be when you can't see it. Know where the donut blocks and stage blocks are at all times for stage spiking or survival teching. Learn where to pressure your opponent to force them into recovering, and exploit it. Some characters can do this better than you, and some players won't be fooled by your level based tricks.

So for this reason, I would rate this level as 7/10. It can be a huge advantage to players who don't know or practice the level, but for those who do, it can be completely character or player dependent. HOWEVER I counterpick this level often just because of the comfort factor of it, and if you are excessively comfortable on any level, don't let numerical rankings sway you.
 

M-WUZ-H3R3

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Phase 1: I'm on a boat!
You begin aboard a colurful, winged vessel. This phase is much like any other stage. Use this time to build up damage and maybe even get in an early kill with rest.
Eventually the flying boat crashes into a floating platform in the middle of the sky. Just like the ones you see everyday. Moments before the crash try to push your opponent as far to the right of the boat as possible so they will have trouble making it to phase 2. Continue to Wall of Pain them as you begin to climb.

Phase 2: Climb
This is one of the longest phases of the stage, and also your most useful. There are many platforms to plank on and build damage. The blastbox also moves up for you (Jigglypuff) to easily follow while your opponent may struggle.

Phase 3: Straightaway
The stage moves to the right and the cieling is very low. You have to be careful not to get launched here because the cieling is very low. You may hit your head on it because of how low it is. Rest could easily launch an opponent through this low blast box, but that is a risky move because you could fall behind to the left of the screen. This is not Jigglypuff's favorite part :(

Phase 4: Sky Dive
The stage scrolls down suprisingly fast. The right side of the stage is an open blast box and the left is a wall with platforms sticking out. You should play it safe here and hug the left side and fast fall all the way down. Air dodge if you opponent gets close, or use an aireal to push them away.
 

Noobicidal

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Last night of discussion for Rainbow Cruise folks. I'll pick something more... traditional tomorrow (unless SOMEHOW this board loses it's stagnancy tonight).
 

Noobicidal

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Frigate sounds nice. Official discussion starts at 12:00 AM EST.

Start now; I don't care. Not doing the write up for RC at the moment.
 

JigglyZelda003

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lol Frigate

rating 3.5/5

pros:
+easier gimping due to flipping, and first form lacking in one edge
+side blast zones are pretty close, allowing for earlier KOs
+smaller floor=less room to pew pew
+**** bad recoveries

cons:
-2nd form side platforms can save people
-dip in second form allows for some easier wall outs from the likes of Zelda.

CP::popo::wolf::zelda::ike::falco:

ban
:rob:

i haven't faced alot of characters here, sorry, and im clearly not good at writing a stage review too. >__>
 

Noobicidal

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i haven't faced alot of characters here, sorry, and im clearly not good at writing a stage review too. >__>
That's alright; it's my job anyway. For the most part, I just take your responses, put 'em together in a BEAUTIFUL form, and make it sound catchy. Any contribution is certainly better than none.
 

:mad:

Bird Law Aficionado
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Rainbow Cruise, in my opinion.

:jigglypuff::jigglypuff::jigglypuff::jigglypuff:
Jigglypuff can stall nearly anyone here. She'll die early if you don't play the stage right. You have to be like a Wario, air camp until they screw up. Resting can get very early kills, though you can potentially kill yourself.
Cons: Small blastzones, rest can be suicidal, characters like Meta Knight run this stage better than Jiggs can.
Counterpick Against: :diddy:, :ganondorf:, [:snake:; debatable]
Ban Against: :metaknight:
Not the best stage, but a useful CP against anyone that relies on items.

Sorry, wanted to say something about RC.
 

M-WUZ-H3R3

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Frigate Orpheon disclaimer:

You will never ever die when the stage flips because you are jigglypuff. Do the math.

Now thats what I call a game breaking advantage :pimp:
 
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