Good point, I try to be aggressive only when I see openings because Roy gets punished hard for overextending which is why I often drag matches a lot longer. As a SF player, I always take things slow and it seems to help because a lot of people I've fought are impatient.
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The new Roy Strategem discussion
- Thread starter Rain(ame)
- Start date
Clouder_
Smash Cadet
Lol I've got plenty of Ganons in my area and one of them is so amazing! (He's called Kikkoman) And you're right, counter is risky but incredibly good against Ganon. If you havent checked yet, then go see the frame data on his counter. It's out like 10-18 frames so it's very hard to time compared to Marth.
Also, I bet one of our best local players Falcon. He's called Poopmaister6000 I believe and he's a Jiggly main. It was very tight but I won about 60-65% against his Falcon. I also showed him the invisible ceiling glitch on Roy's counter and how to trigger it. He got very impressed and told me to keep on playing! I'm super hyped now haha.
ALSO! Roy dash attack are super ********. You can iasa 15-20 frames before the original... What should you call it... Ending of the animation? Whatever. It's incredibly good to use against aggressive players or players who shield grab a lot. Run towards them dd dash attack in the opposite direction, if it's a samus and he tries to shield grab you, do whatever you want. It's so free. Did this to a samus player online and it worked a few times. Ofc they all adapt, but it's a good "if I whiff it just pretend it was a bait and look professional ok?" Kind of move XD.
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This is some valuable info in regards to the dash attackcounter frame data and its cool to see people in the scene still appreciating us Roy players instead of the typical "Y u no play fox and shine". And what's Roy's invisible ceiling glitch? I think I did it against my friend but it was really random.
Clouder_
Smash Cadet
Hehe, why thank you.
Roy IC glitch basically makes the enemy bounce of the air when their attacks are countered. Because of how many things that is happening whilst you're doing a counter (fire, 1.5 added kb and damage I believe, it's a shield but at the same time attack) it confuses the game. Th game start to think "meh, he's dead now, so I don't need to send him any further", the game basically believes you've reached a blast zone, so it stops all your momentum upwards and sends you diagonally downwards. So first, you counter a move, they fly towards the top right/left corner, but suddenly changes trajectory to the bottom left/right corner.
How to trigger:
To trigger the glitch, it, first of all, have to be a grounded attack you counter, so no up bs. I know you can somehow trigger the glitch so it works with aerials, idk how tho.
It all depends on one thing: your shield. If you max/hard shield, and then do something to cancel it in a unnatural way, such as jumping out of shield, you will trigger the glitch. If you hard shield whilst jumping oos the glitch will occur a lot more early. This is the best option most of the time. If you light shield, it will trigger much later.
Also, before I went to Spektrum 8 (a local tournament where I live) a lot of peopl said I should switch to Marth. The people who said that hadn't even seen me play yet. When I got to Spektrum and they saw me play I instead got lost of love! They said that Roy was perfectly fit for my passive/aggressive style (heard you guys where talking about if it's better to play defensive with Roy, didn't read it all tho). They even cheered my name when I played. That was the highlight of my life, like seriously, it was so freaking hype. I drowned in pools tho :/
Dang, I'm gonna try the glitch out next time I play. And yeah, everyone tells me to play Marth too lol. I get rekt against PR players in my region, if I could at least take a game off of them with Roy, I'd be the talk of the town! I just gotta keep grinding.
Clouder_
Smash Cadet
Nice! Good luck! Luckily for me, my local players aren't very good, so I beat some of them with ease. I beat a player called Flabb in friendlies. Look him up. He's pretty/decently good. Hope to see you soon!
Comet7
Smash Lord
they say that because you're shooting yourself in the foot if you choose to play a terrible character. keep it up if you want to, i did it for a while myself.
Clouder_
Smash Cadet
What a positive attitude. Don't want to start a fight or anything. Sorry if I'm wrong, but didn't you play Kirby for a while?
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Comet7
Smash Lord
pichu. he's still my secondary.
you can play roy if you want, just know that you're definitely not going to win as many matches as you would otherwise.
So here are my matches from last week with Roy. Hopefully something is there in these matches for you all to pick from, whether it's "hey that's a good idea i'll try that" or "my god man why would you do that?!0"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPsEMfG4h5A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1HR-OpmeAA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNyHK2TkfSk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNe4p6Lk5aM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjLD-d1ULCY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxg0ZQHmVrU
Enjoy! I'll try to play again, but I need a break to do some things. Good luck to you all!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPsEMfG4h5A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1HR-OpmeAA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNyHK2TkfSk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNe4p6Lk5aM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjLD-d1ULCY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxg0ZQHmVrU
Enjoy! I'll try to play again, but I need a break to do some things. Good luck to you all!
I'm just glad to see people posting here again, the Ganon boards have people posting every hour of the day. Imagine if that many Roy players got together and just overthrew the government and lowered gas prices to the amount of knockback his noodle sword does at max range
Clouder_
Smash Cadet
LOOOL I CANT STOP LAUGHING AT THISI'm just glad to see people posting here again, the Ganon boards have people posting every hour of the day. Imagine if that many Roy players got together and just overthrew the government and lowered gas prices to the amount of knockback his noodle sword does at max range
Clouder_
Smash Cadet
https://twitter.com/ssbm_kira/status/699319812514824192 Yooo I'm gonna get destroyyyed lmaoo! Keep on scrolling down the comments, you will see 's our boy, Kira.
's our boy, Kira.
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Kira's either really salty or just really hates Royhttps://twitter.com/ssbm_kira/status/699319812514824192 Yooo I'm gonna get destroyyyed lmaoo! Keep on scrolling down the comments, you will see
I'm getting so burned rn lmao. I'm laughing so hard cause I didn't know little me could get this much attention! This is so funny.
Clouder_
Smash Cadet
Btw where are you from Masteroki?
Philadelphia, where everyone is a Fox/Falco main. How bout you?
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Clouder_
Smash Cadet
Im from Sweden. Theres a city in the south of Sweden i recently moved to. It's called Malmö. Where all the Falco, Ganon and Luigi players are.
Luigi is such an annoying character! Up there with Falco on my most hated lol
Clouder_
Smash Cadet
https://youtu.be/c_7iZ4OxvkM
You dont have to trade the hit, we were just really lazy and didnt want to record more hehe...
Also, so far, this glitch have worked on:
Falcon
Fox, I assume it works on Falco too
Ganon
Mario
Doc (?)
Stages you can do the glitch on only one side (e.g Right ledge):
FD
Dreamland is just one huge ass question mark
Stages it works on both sides:
YS
Will update more later on. Like I said before, we were pretty lazy so we didn't try out that much.
You dont have to trade the hit, we were just really lazy and didnt want to record more hehe...
Also, so far, this glitch have worked on:
Falcon
Fox, I assume it works on Falco too
Ganon
Mario
Doc (?)
Stages you can do the glitch on only one side (e.g Right ledge):
FD
Dreamland is just one huge ass question mark
Stages it works on both sides:
YS
Will update more later on. Like I said before, we were pretty lazy so we didn't try out that much.
Kawaii-Kun
Smash Apprentice
Holy crap, son, soon Roy will be as jank as Weegee. Keep working on those invisible ceiling setups!
I hope this is our glimpse of light
CnB | Chandy
Smash Journeyman
I've been fooling around with Roy lately, and while I've always had a sneaking suspicion that his tech chase game was underdeveloped, I never got around to looking into it myself until very recently. I was surprised to find out that Roy actually has a guaranteed tech chase on reaction on Fox, just like Sheik and Falcon. Because of his really good grounded mobility, long grab range, and unreactable DI mix-ups with his super quick fthrow and dthrow, Roy can cover every possible tech option Fox can do out of a fthrow or bthrow IF AND ONLY IF your reactions are near perfect, including the two most problematic options, tech in place shine and tech away. After grinding these reactions in my own lab time over the course of a week, I was able to pull it off a few times in recorded tournament matches.
http://gfycat.com/GorgeousNewKingbird
While it's probably much harder and initially less rewarding to learn this style of punish compared to simply chaingrabbing/juggling or hard reading techs with dtilt, I feel like this could be a great boon to Roy's punish game in the Fox and Falcon match-ups in particular. Because of Roy's awful aerial combo game I think keeping the opponent on the ground and relying on your reactions to build up percent off of regrabs is the optimal way to deal with spacies in the mid-low percents as opposed to taking the opponent into the air or on to the platforms, where Roy tends to struggle. The main problem with it is that's stupidly hard to do consistently, as the reaction windows for tech in place and tech away in particular are incredibly tight, which is problematic as they're the most popular choices to get out of tech chases by far. They are on the very fringe of what is humanly possible to react to; you will undoubtedly need to spend a lot of time grinding and failing miserably if you want to be able to do this whenever you get the chance.
I do have some tips, though, if you guys really want to put in the work.
After inputting fthrow/dthrow, your first task is to react to their DI in the small amount of time before they are forced to hit the ground. This is where mixing up between fthrow and dthrow becomes important; if the Fox guesses which one you're going to do, they can fully DI away out of the initial throw, which means they will land further away from you and you'll have to cover more distance to be able to secure the regrab, making your already small reaction window even less lenient (although it's still possible to cover everything even if they get the correct DI, but it's REALLY REALLY HARD). Dthrow in particular is most vulnerable to DI away, because how far they land from you determines whether you have to react with a smashturn grab (to beat tech in place shine) or a dash back (to cover tech away), both of which are difficult and finicky inputs on their own. If your opponent knows the match-up well enough to account for these tech chase set-ups, I would recommend using more fthrows than dthrows for this reason. Which one you want to use is contingent upon several factors like your stage position, their percent, and what you've conditioned them to expect with your throw mix-ups thus far, so it's hard to make a blanket statement on which throw is best in any given case.
Unless they screw up and DI super hard in (in which case you buffer a walk forward), you'll want to immediately input a dash in the direction of their landing as soon as you're actionable. Don't go into a full run, as that's too much of a commitment. You just want the dash, like a quick tap of the control stick just to close the gap. If you know what foxtrottin is, basically just that. Don't even think about the length of the dash or your spacing or whatever, you should be paying close attention to the spacie to figure out what tech option they're choosing.
Second, you have to determine whether or not they tech or missed tech. For every character, any tech input will produce a small yellow flash. Any missed tech will produce a green shockwave underneath the opponent. In my opinion this is the most important thing to watch for when you're attempting to make this determination. Observe these two gifs showing Falco's tech in place and missed tech neutral stand in slow motion.
http://i.imgur.com/brv3bPP.webm
http://i.imgur.com/Y912pjw.webm
Third, once you are aware that they have successfully teched, you must distinguish between tech in place, tech away, and tech in, as these will all have the smallest reaction windows for a successful regrab. This imgur album shows the first five frames of Fox's tech animations in slow motion. Fox's feet are the most visually distinctive part of each animation, and watching them closely will allow you to determine their tech option as quickly as possible. If his feet stay mostly straight up in the air, it's a tech in. If his feet come apart, it's a tech in place (watch closely for this one, it's the hardest to react to). If his feet scrunch in towards his body, it's tech away. Internalize these animations and memorize them. LET THEM BECOME A PART OF YOU.
Recognizing the tech option they've chosen quickly and executing the proper coverage out of your initial dash will be the hardest part. Generally speaking, here are the optimal choices to cover each potential option: to beat tech in place you just immediately dash grab out of your initial dash. To cover tech away, input another dash immediately after the first dash ends (like the first regrab in this gfy) and continue running into a JC grab at the end of their roll. You might be able to running dtilt to punish tech away instead of a regrab but I'm not sure it's quick enough to do on reaction. To cover tech behind, end your initial dash early by dashing in the opposite direction, then JC grab at the end of their roll. You can also wavedash back and smash turn grab if your initial dash turned into a run on accident.
If you have determined that they missed tech, you have a number of options that work and your reaction windows are far more lenient. Although it is sub-optimal, jab resetting as soon as you see missed tech will allow you to skip having react to their get up option after missed tech. However, at higher levels of play, your opponents will start SDIing the jab reset up and rolling or jumping out, which essentially ends your tech chase. A true tech chase champion never jab resets; Roy can still react to every missed tech option on reaction without giving your opponent the opportunity to escape with SDI.
Simply waiting on missed tech is really stressful, as it forces you to rely on a lot of mental fortitude, patience, and focus. When you're just starting to practice this method you will probably lose to get-up attack or neutral stand spotdodge a lot, but don't let that discourage you. You can react to the start of Fox's get up attack animation with shield, or alternatively, you can shield as soon as you see missed tech. Once you're in shield, you will either shield the get-up attack and get a free grab, wait for them to neutral get-up and then shield grab them at the end, or react to a get up roll with a wavedash out of shield grab, wavedash out of shield smash turn grab, or simply shield grab if you're positioned correctly. If you're at a low enough percent, you can crouch as soon as you see missed tech. This allows you to crouch cancel get up attack and grab or dtilt to punish, and grabbing from a crouch is really easy so if they neutral get up you'll be fine too. If they get up roll behind you, you will have to dash backwards out of a crouch, which is a tough input to get used to but it still works.
I stand by the claim that you can always pummel at least once regardless of their mash speed, but if they're really good at it, you may need to buffer fthrow/dthrow on the cstick while you're inputting the pummel. If they don't mash at all, feel free to pummel twice. You earned it. Treat yo'self!
I am still not knowledgeable enough about Roy's punish game to say much about the best way to end tech chases, but hopefully you guys can put your heads together and figure that out. When you fthrow someone into the corner and there's no room to tech away because of the end of the stage, all you have to do is make sure they aren't teching behind you and then you can throw out an fsmash to cover all options like a boss. I think you might also be able to cover tech away on reaction with dtilt if you just keep running after the initial dash and then cancel the run with a crouch into dtilt (although it might be too slow to be reactable). Pivot fsmash may be useful here too, still not sure. Try out new stuff!
Although it's most effective on Fox and Falcon (Falco's tech rolls are too long for Roy to have guaranteed coverage, but it can still work sometimes), other characters like Sheik and Marth who can be forced to tech from fthrow or dthrow for certain percents can also be tech chased on reaction to a certain extent. However, with these floatier characters, mixing it up between fthrow and dthrow is even more important, because for a large range of percents, they can DI such that they don't have to tech and can double jump out. Further, they spend more time in the air so they can land even farther away from Roy with the right DI, so even if they do tech, you may not be able to cover DI away tech away unless you hard read it.
http://gfycat.com/FlawlessTalkativeHake
Tagging
NJzFinest
@Lunchables and just for kicks, @Sethlon for visibility. Would love to see a modern Roy really master this tool. His punish game needs all the help it can get to be quite honest.
http://gfycat.com/GorgeousNewKingbird
While it's probably much harder and initially less rewarding to learn this style of punish compared to simply chaingrabbing/juggling or hard reading techs with dtilt, I feel like this could be a great boon to Roy's punish game in the Fox and Falcon match-ups in particular. Because of Roy's awful aerial combo game I think keeping the opponent on the ground and relying on your reactions to build up percent off of regrabs is the optimal way to deal with spacies in the mid-low percents as opposed to taking the opponent into the air or on to the platforms, where Roy tends to struggle. The main problem with it is that's stupidly hard to do consistently, as the reaction windows for tech in place and tech away in particular are incredibly tight, which is problematic as they're the most popular choices to get out of tech chases by far. They are on the very fringe of what is humanly possible to react to; you will undoubtedly need to spend a lot of time grinding and failing miserably if you want to be able to do this whenever you get the chance.
I do have some tips, though, if you guys really want to put in the work.
After inputting fthrow/dthrow, your first task is to react to their DI in the small amount of time before they are forced to hit the ground. This is where mixing up between fthrow and dthrow becomes important; if the Fox guesses which one you're going to do, they can fully DI away out of the initial throw, which means they will land further away from you and you'll have to cover more distance to be able to secure the regrab, making your already small reaction window even less lenient (although it's still possible to cover everything even if they get the correct DI, but it's REALLY REALLY HARD). Dthrow in particular is most vulnerable to DI away, because how far they land from you determines whether you have to react with a smashturn grab (to beat tech in place shine) or a dash back (to cover tech away), both of which are difficult and finicky inputs on their own. If your opponent knows the match-up well enough to account for these tech chase set-ups, I would recommend using more fthrows than dthrows for this reason. Which one you want to use is contingent upon several factors like your stage position, their percent, and what you've conditioned them to expect with your throw mix-ups thus far, so it's hard to make a blanket statement on which throw is best in any given case.
Unless they screw up and DI super hard in (in which case you buffer a walk forward), you'll want to immediately input a dash in the direction of their landing as soon as you're actionable. Don't go into a full run, as that's too much of a commitment. You just want the dash, like a quick tap of the control stick just to close the gap. If you know what foxtrottin is, basically just that. Don't even think about the length of the dash or your spacing or whatever, you should be paying close attention to the spacie to figure out what tech option they're choosing.
Second, you have to determine whether or not they tech or missed tech. For every character, any tech input will produce a small yellow flash. Any missed tech will produce a green shockwave underneath the opponent. In my opinion this is the most important thing to watch for when you're attempting to make this determination. Observe these two gifs showing Falco's tech in place and missed tech neutral stand in slow motion.
http://i.imgur.com/brv3bPP.webm
http://i.imgur.com/Y912pjw.webm
Third, once you are aware that they have successfully teched, you must distinguish between tech in place, tech away, and tech in, as these will all have the smallest reaction windows for a successful regrab. This imgur album shows the first five frames of Fox's tech animations in slow motion. Fox's feet are the most visually distinctive part of each animation, and watching them closely will allow you to determine their tech option as quickly as possible. If his feet stay mostly straight up in the air, it's a tech in. If his feet come apart, it's a tech in place (watch closely for this one, it's the hardest to react to). If his feet scrunch in towards his body, it's tech away. Internalize these animations and memorize them. LET THEM BECOME A PART OF YOU.
Recognizing the tech option they've chosen quickly and executing the proper coverage out of your initial dash will be the hardest part. Generally speaking, here are the optimal choices to cover each potential option: to beat tech in place you just immediately dash grab out of your initial dash. To cover tech away, input another dash immediately after the first dash ends (like the first regrab in this gfy) and continue running into a JC grab at the end of their roll. You might be able to running dtilt to punish tech away instead of a regrab but I'm not sure it's quick enough to do on reaction. To cover tech behind, end your initial dash early by dashing in the opposite direction, then JC grab at the end of their roll. You can also wavedash back and smash turn grab if your initial dash turned into a run on accident.
If you have determined that they missed tech, you have a number of options that work and your reaction windows are far more lenient. Although it is sub-optimal, jab resetting as soon as you see missed tech will allow you to skip having react to their get up option after missed tech. However, at higher levels of play, your opponents will start SDIing the jab reset up and rolling or jumping out, which essentially ends your tech chase. A true tech chase champion never jab resets; Roy can still react to every missed tech option on reaction without giving your opponent the opportunity to escape with SDI.
Simply waiting on missed tech is really stressful, as it forces you to rely on a lot of mental fortitude, patience, and focus. When you're just starting to practice this method you will probably lose to get-up attack or neutral stand spotdodge a lot, but don't let that discourage you. You can react to the start of Fox's get up attack animation with shield, or alternatively, you can shield as soon as you see missed tech. Once you're in shield, you will either shield the get-up attack and get a free grab, wait for them to neutral get-up and then shield grab them at the end, or react to a get up roll with a wavedash out of shield grab, wavedash out of shield smash turn grab, or simply shield grab if you're positioned correctly. If you're at a low enough percent, you can crouch as soon as you see missed tech. This allows you to crouch cancel get up attack and grab or dtilt to punish, and grabbing from a crouch is really easy so if they neutral get up you'll be fine too. If they get up roll behind you, you will have to dash backwards out of a crouch, which is a tough input to get used to but it still works.
I stand by the claim that you can always pummel at least once regardless of their mash speed, but if they're really good at it, you may need to buffer fthrow/dthrow on the cstick while you're inputting the pummel. If they don't mash at all, feel free to pummel twice. You earned it. Treat yo'self!
I am still not knowledgeable enough about Roy's punish game to say much about the best way to end tech chases, but hopefully you guys can put your heads together and figure that out. When you fthrow someone into the corner and there's no room to tech away because of the end of the stage, all you have to do is make sure they aren't teching behind you and then you can throw out an fsmash to cover all options like a boss. I think you might also be able to cover tech away on reaction with dtilt if you just keep running after the initial dash and then cancel the run with a crouch into dtilt (although it might be too slow to be reactable). Pivot fsmash may be useful here too, still not sure. Try out new stuff!
Although it's most effective on Fox and Falcon (Falco's tech rolls are too long for Roy to have guaranteed coverage, but it can still work sometimes), other characters like Sheik and Marth who can be forced to tech from fthrow or dthrow for certain percents can also be tech chased on reaction to a certain extent. However, with these floatier characters, mixing it up between fthrow and dthrow is even more important, because for a large range of percents, they can DI such that they don't have to tech and can double jump out. Further, they spend more time in the air so they can land even farther away from Roy with the right DI, so even if they do tech, you may not be able to cover DI away tech away unless you hard read it.
http://gfycat.com/FlawlessTalkativeHake
Tagging
NJzFinest
@Lunchables and just for kicks, @Sethlon for visibility. Would love to see a modern Roy really master this tool. His punish game needs all the help it can get to be quite honest.
D
Deleted member
Guest
this is gorgeous. question- with marth's run speed, how does this translate to covering falcos longer tech rolls?
D
Deleted member
Guest
That's... actually really cool. I didn't realize his F throw was fast enough to be an "infinite" tech chase tool vs fox
This will help whenever I can't U throw vs fast fallers due to a platform being above me. I'll try and implement this into my gameplay
This will help whenever I can't U throw vs fast fallers due to a platform being above me. I'll try and implement this into my gameplay
I love fthrow, I noticed this first playing Marth vs Falcon. I remember Eliwood making a post awhile back on how Roy can reaction tech chase top tiers for full stocks, so I started doing it as Roy too.
I try to dash grab instead of dash JC grab cause Kadano says so but I instinctively usually JC grab.
My haven't practiced Roy for awhile lol. I used him randomly in a friendly vs StrongBad and got super owned.
https://twitter.com/kadano/status/634485583688126465
let's go Roy
edit: @Umbreon
CnB | Chandy
I'm playing in 20XX atm and dash grab is covering Falcos tech rolls.
I try to dash grab instead of dash JC grab cause Kadano says so but I instinctively usually JC grab.
My haven't practiced Roy for awhile lol. I used him randomly in a friendly vs StrongBad and got super owned.
https://twitter.com/kadano/status/634485583688126465
let's go Roy
edit: @Umbreon
CnB | Chandy
I'm playing in 20XX atm and dash grab is covering Falcos tech rolls.
Last edited by a moderator:
Clouder_
Smash Cadet
Shouldn't we make a Roy colour tier list like the Fox one? E.g Orange fox = Aggressive, stylish, you get what I'm saying?
Although we don't have a lot of material to make one :/
Although we don't have a lot of material to make one :/
Kawaii-Kun
Smash Apprentice
Very yes.
_____Andrew_____
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2015
- Messages
- 125
Clouder_
Smash Cadet
Look up priagaming on twitch if you wanna see my Roy :D Its the first video. Idk the time tho
EDIT: On YT you can see one of my matches. Same username PriaGaming. It's called the Ranbat brother duel. https://youtu.be/7AGgGYgmFiA
EDIT: On YT you can see one of my matches. Same username PriaGaming. It's called the Ranbat brother duel. https://youtu.be/7AGgGYgmFiA
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CnB | Chandy
Smash Journeyman
Sweetspot dtilt is your best combo starter at pretty much any percent against marth and sheik, especially in the mid percent range (35 to 70) where your DI mix ups out of grab can't force knockdowns. With that in mind, you should be aware of exactly what your follow-ups out of dtilt are and how they change depending on whether or not you are or aren't underneath or adjacent to a platform when you land your dtilt.
When underneath a platform, dtilt into dair is very easy to connect, but you must be careful to either get the meteor hitbox of dair or the weak noodle hit. The meteor dair sets up for a platform tech chase (dtilt or fsmash are juicy on read, but if you want pure reactions, regrabs work just fine). The weak hit dair can set up for a regrab with the right DI, but the meteor dair is less susceptible to DI so you should always try to hit that if you can. You can also dtilt sweetspot uair into regrab which is a decent follow-up but also susceptible to DI. What's most effective is mixing it up between weak hit dair regrab and sweetspot uair regrab, because they both need to be DI'd differently to avoid a regrab.
https://gfycat.com/DizzyExhaustedChick
these options only work if they don't DI, DI behind, or slight DI forward. if they DI offstage, dair is pretty much worthless. at that point you'll want to full jump double fair (the double fair isn't a true combo but it's great at catching double jumps) and then get to ledge to continue an edgeguard
https://gfycat.com/BadCraftyIndianringneckparakeet
if you're not underneath a platform but you are adjacent to one, your followups actually become way better if they DI dtilt away because the platform helps your punish game. if they DI the initial dtilt away, you can full jump fair and land on the platform. if they DI the fair down and away, they'll tech the platform and you can tech chase them with grab, dtilt, or fsmash. if they DI the fair in, you can regrab them. alternatively, if you think they would DI up and away or hard away (which will avoid any fair follow-ups), you can meteor dair them and tech chase them on reaction. this is a fifty-fifty though, if they DI in they can avoid teching the platform and tech the ground instead.
https://gfycat.com/DemandingCreepyLadybug
alternatively you can just avoid the mix-ups altogether and wait for them to tech off the initial dtilt but if they DI up they might double jump out so it's kind of risky. if they do no DI off the initial dtilt you can charge usmash or running usmash to deal with slight DI
https://gfycat.com/JovialElasticGardensnake
Mix these follow-ups with early % DI mix-ups off of grab and reaction tech chasing and you've got yourself a solid punish game. never play on FD in these match-ups if you can avoid it, you need the platforms to punish effectively.
When underneath a platform, dtilt into dair is very easy to connect, but you must be careful to either get the meteor hitbox of dair or the weak noodle hit. The meteor dair sets up for a platform tech chase (dtilt or fsmash are juicy on read, but if you want pure reactions, regrabs work just fine). The weak hit dair can set up for a regrab with the right DI, but the meteor dair is less susceptible to DI so you should always try to hit that if you can. You can also dtilt sweetspot uair into regrab which is a decent follow-up but also susceptible to DI. What's most effective is mixing it up between weak hit dair regrab and sweetspot uair regrab, because they both need to be DI'd differently to avoid a regrab.
https://gfycat.com/DizzyExhaustedChick
these options only work if they don't DI, DI behind, or slight DI forward. if they DI offstage, dair is pretty much worthless. at that point you'll want to full jump double fair (the double fair isn't a true combo but it's great at catching double jumps) and then get to ledge to continue an edgeguard
https://gfycat.com/BadCraftyIndianringneckparakeet
if you're not underneath a platform but you are adjacent to one, your followups actually become way better if they DI dtilt away because the platform helps your punish game. if they DI the initial dtilt away, you can full jump fair and land on the platform. if they DI the fair down and away, they'll tech the platform and you can tech chase them with grab, dtilt, or fsmash. if they DI the fair in, you can regrab them. alternatively, if you think they would DI up and away or hard away (which will avoid any fair follow-ups), you can meteor dair them and tech chase them on reaction. this is a fifty-fifty though, if they DI in they can avoid teching the platform and tech the ground instead.
https://gfycat.com/DemandingCreepyLadybug
alternatively you can just avoid the mix-ups altogether and wait for them to tech off the initial dtilt but if they DI up they might double jump out so it's kind of risky. if they do no DI off the initial dtilt you can charge usmash or running usmash to deal with slight DI
https://gfycat.com/JovialElasticGardensnake
Mix these follow-ups with early % DI mix-ups off of grab and reaction tech chasing and you've got yourself a solid punish game. never play on FD in these match-ups if you can avoid it, you need the platforms to punish effectively.
Kawaii-Kun
Smash Apprentice
LSDX and I still play here in Illinois and Private O'Malley from Long Island still plays.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Roy may have teh ph1re, but these days people running away to platforms seem to have a better campfire. RIP Roy players.
Audos
Smash Apprentice
So I've been in the lab lately, crunching the numbers. And I've discovered that roy's Flare Blade, the neutral b, has exactly 211 frames of start up and KO's essentially anywhere on MOST stages. The Roy meta currently involves abusing DD, landing grabs, tech chasing, and using down-tilts.
Now believe it or not Roy, our boy, actually wins most matchups. What we've been looking at wrong this whole time is how to fight CC, which normally plagued us. Roy has a laggy Jumpsquat so most players wait for moments that roy enters the air to counter it with CC, but that's where this new tech comes in. If you fully charge the Flare blade, it can't be crouch canceled. Now I know what you are thinking, "Audos, how did you come up with this masterpiece of an idea?" And I'll get to that, but first there are 2 problems I have to go over for this tech:
For starters there is the biggest problem, which is the stage counterpicking. On most neutral stages like congo jungle and Hyrule Castle there isn't a problem, but if the opponent counterpicks Temple then they can abuse the high ceiling and lower cave area to avoid dying immediately to this tech. In a BO5 this is detrimental, because you cannot ban temple. I'd recommend doing so in a BO3. If you DO have to go to temple, your options are not completely gone, you simply have to hit them several times per stock with charged fortuneblade (the current name for this tech, I'll get there in a moment) in order for it to kill effectively.
Next issue is not nearly as pressing, but still matters. The 211 frame start up. Now normally for a regular flare blade this is a difficult problem, but for the fortuneblade it really isn't an issue once perfected. All you have to do is unplug the opponents controller and throw it at Blur's TV, preferably not the one you are using at the time. I like to bring a space pocket tv from blur with me to events. Once their controller is unplugged and inside blur's television, all you have to do is wait for blur to draw attention to the issue via an open-palmed gesture. Once that happens, you've got them. Simply perform the fortuneblade several times while the legal issues are being resolved, make sure you blame the opponent for throwing the controller as it will redirect legal attention to him.
If anybody has feedback on this new tech feel free to ask away. Although I probably won't have answers, as this tech is in its infancy.
Now believe it or not Roy, our boy, actually wins most matchups. What we've been looking at wrong this whole time is how to fight CC, which normally plagued us. Roy has a laggy Jumpsquat so most players wait for moments that roy enters the air to counter it with CC, but that's where this new tech comes in. If you fully charge the Flare blade, it can't be crouch canceled. Now I know what you are thinking, "Audos, how did you come up with this masterpiece of an idea?" And I'll get to that, but first there are 2 problems I have to go over for this tech:
For starters there is the biggest problem, which is the stage counterpicking. On most neutral stages like congo jungle and Hyrule Castle there isn't a problem, but if the opponent counterpicks Temple then they can abuse the high ceiling and lower cave area to avoid dying immediately to this tech. In a BO5 this is detrimental, because you cannot ban temple. I'd recommend doing so in a BO3. If you DO have to go to temple, your options are not completely gone, you simply have to hit them several times per stock with charged fortuneblade (the current name for this tech, I'll get there in a moment) in order for it to kill effectively.
Next issue is not nearly as pressing, but still matters. The 211 frame start up. Now normally for a regular flare blade this is a difficult problem, but for the fortuneblade it really isn't an issue once perfected. All you have to do is unplug the opponents controller and throw it at Blur's TV, preferably not the one you are using at the time. I like to bring a space pocket tv from blur with me to events. Once their controller is unplugged and inside blur's television, all you have to do is wait for blur to draw attention to the issue via an open-palmed gesture. Once that happens, you've got them. Simply perform the fortuneblade several times while the legal issues are being resolved, make sure you blame the opponent for throwing the controller as it will redirect legal attention to him.
If anybody has feedback on this new tech feel free to ask away. Although I probably won't have answers, as this tech is in its infancy.
Ten of Nine
Smash Apprentice
A few new things I've found very useful in regards to edge-guarding with Roy -
(Basically Roys need to be more aggressive once they get their opponents off stage, you can't afford to chance repeated neutral encounters against top tiers)
1. Going Deep with Flare blade and Counter
1a. Dash jump out and get in spacies face as they try to up-B like a goal keeper cutting off the angles of a potential striker. use Side-B float to get more distance if needed. Activate counter as they are about to launch, boom, they dead. double jump back and Up -B back. See 1b if you can't counter or you suspect a side B...
1b. Same as above approach any character you have hit off stage and again using Side-b float to get more distance if necessary. Follow them as they fly off stage, Flare blade and ensure that stock. You can make it back from surprisingly far using DJ sideways and full sideways Up-B (especially if you didn't expend your side-b float)
2. The most common mistake or missed opportunity I see from Roys? When they opponent gets knocked downwards off stage right below or near the edge. Most Roys just sit on stage doing nothing or grab ledge and usually get hit as the opponent recovers There are 3 simple solutions that can guarantee a KO (at really low percents too) - WD fully backwards off stage and start Flare Blade as you slip off stage, run or WD off stage flare blade inwards, or SH off stage and flare blade. All three are survivable; the first being very easy to recover with just a DJ and Up-B, the other two will require and DJ then Side-B float at the peak of DJ, then Up-B. Flare blade has a really good initial KB and it grows almost as fast as Samus's Up-tilt (aerial hitbox), if it stage spikes using the above scenarios it can end stocks as early as 5-10% for characters with lesser recoveries. The massive arc of the move allows coverage of so many options and is bound to hit even with bad spacing.
(Basically Roys need to be more aggressive once they get their opponents off stage, you can't afford to chance repeated neutral encounters against top tiers)
1. Going Deep with Flare blade and Counter
1a. Dash jump out and get in spacies face as they try to up-B like a goal keeper cutting off the angles of a potential striker. use Side-B float to get more distance if needed. Activate counter as they are about to launch, boom, they dead. double jump back and Up -B back. See 1b if you can't counter or you suspect a side B...
1b. Same as above approach any character you have hit off stage and again using Side-b float to get more distance if necessary. Follow them as they fly off stage, Flare blade and ensure that stock. You can make it back from surprisingly far using DJ sideways and full sideways Up-B (especially if you didn't expend your side-b float)
2. The most common mistake or missed opportunity I see from Roys? When they opponent gets knocked downwards off stage right below or near the edge. Most Roys just sit on stage doing nothing or grab ledge and usually get hit as the opponent recovers There are 3 simple solutions that can guarantee a KO (at really low percents too) - WD fully backwards off stage and start Flare Blade as you slip off stage, run or WD off stage flare blade inwards, or SH off stage and flare blade. All three are survivable; the first being very easy to recover with just a DJ and Up-B, the other two will require and DJ then Side-B float at the peak of DJ, then Up-B. Flare blade has a really good initial KB and it grows almost as fast as Samus's Up-tilt (aerial hitbox), if it stage spikes using the above scenarios it can end stocks as early as 5-10% for characters with lesser recoveries. The massive arc of the move allows coverage of so many options and is bound to hit even with bad spacing.
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Hi Guys I haven't been too active but while I wasn't active I tested some stuff with Roy for example I learned that First Hit of N-air can combo into some stuff you can do stuff like Nair 1-F-Smash Nair 1-Grab,etc. so you can use this to setup some kill confirms
NOTES: Tested on 20XX 4.05 CPUs with "Optimal" DI, Hilt will always send them to Roy's Back so that's guaranteed,Tip depends on your opponents DI now ill give props to "Little ****" on discord for telling me that Tip wont always send them in front of Roy and thought me that its DI dependant
Hope this Helps!
NOTES: Tested on 20XX 4.05 CPUs with "Optimal" DI, Hilt will always send them to Roy's Back so that's guaranteed,Tip depends on your opponents DI now ill give props to "Little ****" on discord for telling me that Tip wont always send them in front of Roy and thought me that its DI dependant
Hope this Helps!
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