The New and Improved Jigglypuff Guide! A WIP 20% Started Into, Added Camping

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0. It's time we make a new guide! And not just talk about it, but do it. We all know that it won't get done unless someone just does it.

So here I am, ready to do it, with YOUR help!

I'll do all the boring move analysis and stuff. I need someone to do: Advanced Techniques, Approaching, Camping, Killing, and a fun introduction(I vote dapuffster's jigglypuff bible.)

Table of Contents:
0. Me talking about the guide
I. Introduction
II. Pros and Cons
III. Move-set Analysis
IV. Camping
V. Approaching
VI. Advanced Techniques
VII. Getting the Kill
VIII. Recovering



I. Introduction!
Hello! Welcome to the new Jigglypuff guide(as of December 2012!) The Old Guide is very outdated and not very pretty. So I'm writing this one to replace it! Jigglypuff is a lot worse in Brawl than she was in melee. She got nerfed probably more than any character from game to game(Top 3 in Melee, Bottom 5 in Brawl.) She still has the combo playstyle she had in melee, but this is brawl, and there are no combo's so she's bad. She is the lightest character in the game, so dies early. BUT WE LOVE HER ANYWAY, because she is amazing and the savior of us all. Jigglypuff is the queen on Switzerland and the best pokemon on this side of the Kanto region. She can also kill you via sleeping. Clearly, despite her flaws, you should continue reading and then go all puff in every tourney.

And this is the introduction until I can come up/make someone else write a better one!

II. Pros and Cons!

Pros:
-She has the 2nd best Air Speed in the game

-She has a good crouch

-Arguably the most adorable character in the game

-Has a mediocre grab range(tied with MetaKnights)

-She has a good aerial move-set

-She can easily gimp characters with bad recoveries

-She is a lot of fun to play

-No one plays puff, so no one knows the Match-Up

-Good at camping


Cons:
-Lightest character in the game, allowing her to die a lot faster than any other character

-Bad ground game

-Can't approach effectively

-Bad Match-ups

-Lack of reliable kill moves

-Arguably "useless" dsmash and up B.

-Average recovery

-Hard time racking up damage

-Bad range on most of her move-set

-She's a low tier and no one takes her seriously :(

-Slowest running speed in the game


III. Move-set Analysis

Jab
[collapse=1st hit]
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[collapse=2nd hit]
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Hits on Frame: 5-6
Duration: 21*
Hitlag: 6
Blockstun: 1
Blockhitlag: 6
Base Damage: 3%
Knockback:
Angle: 45 Degrees
Base: 548.27
Growth Rate/ variance: 5.91

*If you keep on pressing A and the attack does not hit, the attack only has a duration of 11 frames. This is the repeating first jab which stops once you get a hit. This means by holding A you can cut off 5 frames of the total animation of jab.

Analysis: This, not including rest, is tied with Dash Attack as Jigglypuff’s fastest ground move. Although Jigglypuff has small, stubby arms, the hitbox on this is bigger than you would expect. You may hold A down for a repeated jab (another taunt, anyone?) Jab can lead to a few things if your opponent is not expecting it, like a grab, or if they’re REALLY not expecting it, a f-smash. 3% for a jab is not too shabby for a total of 6%. If used cleverly, jab can disrupt recovering characters offstage and, if they do not react in time, they can SD. Doesn't combo until 30%. Try it out, but use it in moderation.

Up Tilt
[collapse=1st hit]
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[collapse=2nd hit]
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Hits on Frame: 9-11
Duration: 30
Hitlag: 8
Blockstun: 3
Blockhitlag: 8
Base Damage: 9%
Knockback:
Angle: 90 Degrees
Base: 1996.49
Growth Rate/ variance: 31.39

Analysis: While this move has limited range, and doesn't hit in front of puff, it is still a good kill move. It kills faster than her Usmash, and is a much faster move, frame-wise. However, because of its poor range, the most effective way to like this move is to combo it out of a Short Hopped Dair, however you can sometimes catch your opponent off guard and hit them with it while they approach you. This is one of her better kill moves.

Forward Tilt

Hits on Frame: 7-9
Duration: 35
Hitlag: 8
Blockstun: 3
Blockhitlag: 8
Base Damage: 10%
Knockback:
Angle: 42.5 Degrees
Base: 848.7
Growth Rate/ variance: 28.73

Analysis: This move is one of her best ground moves. Unfortunately, it's still bad, because her ground game is bad. It hits on frame 7, which is 7/60ths of a second, so that's pretty fast for a move with not terrible range. I personally like to use up angled ftilts to hit my opponents instead of non angled. Unfortunately, the angled ftilts don't have any hitbox images that I know of, so I don't know if it is better to angle it or not.

Down Tilt

Hits on Frame: 10-12
Duration: 38
Hitlag: 8
Blockstun: 3
Blockhitlag: 8
Base Damage: 10%
Knockback:
Angle: 30 Degrees
Base: 1466.4
Growth Rate/ variance: 8.56

Analysis: This move is pretty slow, but does alright damage. It has no combo potential that I know of right now, but you can use it out of dair for a lot of percent. Also, because of its downward angle, it is an ok edge-guarding move, but is still super slow and easily punished.

Up Smash
[collapse=1st part]
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[collapse=3rd part]
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Hits on Frame (Sweetspot, Back)*: 16-17, 19
Hits on Frame (Sourspot, Back): 18
Hits on Frame (Sweetspot, Front): 18-19
Hits on Frame (Sourspot, Front): 17
Duration: 62
Hitlag (Sweetspot): 10
Hitlag (Sourspot): 10
Blockstun (Sweetspot): 5
Blockhitlag (Sweetspot): 10
Blockstun (Sourspot): 4
Blockhitlag (Sourspot): 10
Starts Charging (Charges For): 9 (52)
Base Damage Sweetspot: 15%
Base Damage Sourspot: 13%
Knockback:
Angle (Sweetspot): 92.5 Degrees
Base (Sweetspot): 1325.35
Growth Rate/ variance (Sweetspot): 39.91
Angle (Sourspot): 87.5 Degrees
Base (Sourspot): 1245.25
Growth Rate/ variance (Sourspot): 35.75

*The move has different hitboxes in the front and back of the move. The initial hit in the back is always sweetspotted while for almost all characters (on Jigglypuff is an exception), the front starts out with a sourspotted hit. This causes the illusion that there are different hitboxes in the front in back. However, the sweetspots and sourspots of the move simply come at different times.

Analysis: This move is slower and weaker than utilt, however the move makes up for what it lacks. Puff has a very good DACUS(see Advanced Techniques) which helps her ground mobility and makes this a surprise kill move at high percents. Still, it is an easily punished move, but due to the DACUS and it's relatively good range, this isn't a very bad move. At least not for jigglypuff.

Forward Smash

Hits on Frame (Sweetspot): 16-19
Hits on Frame (Sourspot): 20-24
Duration: 59
Hitlag (Sweetspot): 11
Hitlag (Sourspot): 10
Blockstun (Sweetspot): 5
Blockhitlag (Sweetspot): 11
Blockstun (Sourspot): 4
Blockhitlag (Sourspot): 10
Starts Charging (Charges For): 5 (69)
Base Damage (Sweetspot): 16%
Base Damage (Sourspot): 13%
Knockback:
Angle (Sweetspot): 50 Degrees
Base (Sweetspot): 948
Growth Rate/ variance (Sweetspot): 44.5
Angle (Sourspot): 54 Degrees
Base (Sourspot): 674.2
Growth Rate/ variance (Sourspot): 28.60

Analysis: This move is pretty slow, but has pretty good range. It isn't her most reliable kill move, but it has its uses. Notably, you can use this to punish landing lag, or if you break a shield or put someone to sleep with sing. This move is pretty average on her kill move scale.

Down Smash

Down Smash
Hits on Frame: 14
Duration: 60
Hitlag: 9
Blockstun: 4
Blockhitlag: 9
Starts Charging (Charges For): 5 (52)
Base Damage: 12%
Knockback:
Angle: -12.5 Degrees
Base: 1488.32
Growth Rate/ variance: 22.14

Analysis: This is probably her worst move. Don't use it. I sometime whip it out because my opponents don't expect it, but that's about all its good for. When you do land it, I guess it's kinda funny and you usually get your opponent off stage when it's landed. Makes a good taunt IMO.

Dash Attack

Hits on Frame (Sweetspot): 5-9
Hits on Frame (Sourspot): 10-15
Duration: 47
Hitlag (Sweetspot): 9
Hitlag (Sourspot): 8
Blockstun (Sweetspot): 4
Blockhitlag (Sweetspot): 9
Blockstun (Sourspot): 2
Blockhitlag (Sourspot): 8
Base Damage (Sweetspot): 12%
Base Damage (Sourspot): 8%
Knockback:
Angle (Sweetspot): 42.5 Degrees
Base (Sweetspot): 1111.4
Growth Rate/ variance (Sweetspot): 33.55
Angle (Sourspot): 45 Degrees
Base (Sourspot): 845.92
Growth Rate/ variance (Sourspot): 23.76

Analysis: This is one of her best kill moves. It's fast, kill pretty early, and has good range. It is easy to punish ending lag with this move, because it's so fast and has range. You can kill someone without them even seeing it coming. This is one of my favorite kill moves.

Forward Air

Hits on Frame (Sweetspot): 8-9
Hits on Frame (Sourspot): 10-20
Duration: 44
Hitlag (Sweetspot): 9
Hitlag (Sourspot): 7
Landing Lag: 15
Blockstun (Sweetspot): 4
Blockhitlag (Sweetspot): 9
Blockstun (Sourspot): 2
Blockhitlag (Sourspot): 7
Base Damage (Sweetspot): 12%
Base Damage (Sourspot): 6%
Knockback:
Angle (Sweetspot): 45
Base (Sweetspot): 1612.88
Growth Rate/ variance (Sweetspot): 36.01
Angle (Sourspot): 45
Base (Sourspot): 795.38
Growth Rate/ variance (Sourtspot): 13.27

Analysis: Her best aerial kill move. You'll often see puff's bair a Wall Of Pain(see Advanced Techniques) and then turn around off stage to sweet spot a fair and kill. I always kill with this off stage, but you can even use it one stage with a short hopped fair. It is a pretty good move!

Down Air

Hits on Frame: 5-6,8-9,11-12, 14-15, 17-18, 20-21, 23-24, 26-27
Duration (All 8 hit): 73
Hitlag: 4
Landing Lag: 30
Blockstun: 0
Blockhitlag: 4
Base Damage: 2% Per Hit (Max 8 hits)
Knockback:
Angle: 90 Degrees
Base: 2084.1 (At 147 Damage)*
Growth Rate/ variance: 7.45

Analysis: This is a pretty good move. It combos into a lot of things, even rest if the opponent trips! At high percents, if your opponents SDI is bad, this move basically means a stock, because of dair to rest, dair to utilt, dair to fsmash if your opponent doesn't expect it(however this combo is not really a combo by any means. Just like a dair>punish) It's also good just for racking up damage, or gimping your opponent!

Back Air

Hits on Frame: 8-11
Duration: 40
Hitlag: 9
Landing Lag: 15
Blockstun: 4
Blockhitlag: 9
Base Damage: 12%
Knockback:
Angle: 47.5 Degrees
Base: 858.72
Growth Rate/ variance: 30.19

Analysis: This is a VERY good move for Jigglypuff. This is your spam move, Short Hop Bair across the stage, Bair > Bair > Bair off stage to punish jumps and gimp. You can really push your opponent around with this move, and it's so fast and her air speed is so good that it's even safe on shield(assuming you don't just bair and fall infront of your opponent.) All puff mains need to learn this move and learn how to space it well, it is a very key move in her metagame.

Up Air:

Hits on Frame: 8-16
Duration: 43
Hitlag: 8
Landing Lag: 15
Blockstun: 3
Blockhitlag: 8
Base Damage: 9%
Knockback:
Angle: 90 Degrees
Base: 1556.56
Growth Rate/ variance: 26.16

Analysis: This move is pretty fun for juggling heavy opponents. On DK and Bowser, I have even Uair'd 4 times to a rest because they couldn't SDI. It's not a super good move, but has its uses. If your opponent is directly above you, by all means, give it a shot. Just know you may be better off air-dodging.

Neutral Air:
h

Hits on Frame (Sweetspot): 6-8
Hits on Frame (Sourspot): 9-29
Duration: 51
Hitlag (Sweetspot): 8
Hitlag (Sourspot): 7
Landing Lag: 15
Blockstun (Sweetspot): 3
Blockhitlag (Sweetspot): 8
Blockstun (Sourspot): 2
Blockhitlag (Sourspot): 7
Base Damage (Sweetspot): 10%
Base Damage (Sourspot): 6%
Knockback:
No data that I know of

Analysis: This move is fun for combos. I like to bair through my opponent and nair back in front of them to keep moving across them and keep hitting them. This move is also useful for nairing opponents who are sitting on a platform with their shield. It can easily knock them off the platform, setting up a jab lock for you. A quick move with a nice hit box to just get your opponent off of you.

Pound

Hits on Frame: 13-28
Duration: 53
Hitlag: 9
Blockstun: 3
Blockhitlag: 9
Base Damage: 11%
Knockback:
Angle: 90 Degrees
Base: 2120.15
Growth Rate/ variance: 23.35

Analysis: This move has a lot of priority, but can be punished because of its ending lag. this is also a good Recovery move and knocks out a ton of the opponents shield. Pounds a very good move, in comparison to the rest of her moves.

Rest
No hitbox data for this move, but the hitbox is roughly right between her eyes.
Hits on Frame: 2
Duration: 259
Hitlag: 10
Invincible On: 1-27
Blockstun: 5
Blockhitlag: 10
Base Damage: 15%
Knockback:
Angle: 90 Degrees
Base: 3676.85
Growth Rate/ variance: 30.41

Analysis: This move is a lot worse than in melee in most aspects. The only nice thing is that it always kills off the top of the screen, so that your opponent can't come right back and punish you. It's hard to land this move, but is a good kill move when you land it. Practice this in training mode, while it's a high-risk/high reward move, once you get good with the spacing, you usually land it. Set the cpu to stand and practice just resting it, then set it to jump and practice aerial rests. The move comes in handy! You can also land rest after a dair if your opponent trips.

Rollout
No hitbox data. But you don't really need it IMO, just hit your opponent.
Charge Time To Hit: 34
Charge Time For 12%: 34
Charge Time For 13%: 38
Charge Time For 14%: 42
Charge Time For 15%: 45
Charge Time For 16%: 49
Charge Time For 17%: 53
Charge Time For 18%: 57
Releases on Frame After Charge: 2
Ending Lag With Hit: 65
Hitlag: 11
Blockstun: 6
Blockhitlag: 11
Frames it Takes To Cross Final Destination (Fully Charged): 41
Tournaround Animation (Fully Charged):
Duration: 29
Hits On: 29*
Invincible On: 14-15
Base Damage: 18%
Knockback:
Angle on the Ground: 40
Base on the Ground: 1585.68
Growth Rate/ variance on Ground: 47.74
Angle in the Air: 87.5
Base in the Air: 1598.58
Growth Rate/ variance in Air: 48.69

Analysis: This move kills early, but you have to charge it and it is easily punished. Your opponent can beat it be shield grabbing you if his back is towards you, or most characters, if timed right, can just hit you out of it. Mainly Snake and G&W, because Snake can just utilt you, and GW can fsmash and they'll hit you. I've even been rested by another puff mid rollout! However, not everyone knows this, so sometimes you get away with it.
It should be noted that you can cancel roll out onto the ledge as a fast way of getting back to the stage, and also that 3 hits of roll out break a shield(which is the max amount of hits you can do to someone, that is, 2 turn arounds.)
I find it useful to learn how to B-reversal with this move, because you just spin in place, your opponent may think you're facing the way you were before, but then you shot off the other direction to catch them off guard.


Sing
No hitbox data. it seems as though if your opponents hurt box is is the sound waves he'll likely fall asleep.
Hits on Frame: 29
Duration: 178
Wave 1: 18-63
Wave 2: 73-108
Wave 3: 118-164

Analysis: This move is booty in most situations. You can cancel sing on the ledge, but it isn't an infinite like in melee. And, since brawl is so floaty, when you Ledge Cancel Sing, your opponent has no difficulty hitting you. The problem with this move is that your opponents, even when over 150%, usually wake up before you do, making it relatively useless. However, its such an awkward move, that sometimes you sing and your opponent just charges a smash at you, and the 2nd or 3rd wave sometimes puts them to sleep even when the first didn't. You can also sing anyone out of their DACUS, which is nice against snake. The move is relatively bad in almost every situation, so don't worry about it too much.

IV. Camping
Jigglypuff's main style of play is Camping, and she ain't bad at it for a low tier. She can Plank with a rising pound away from the ledge, and a rising pound back towards the ledge. You can plank without jumping! She can also scrooge under the stage with a mixture of jumping and pounding, and is the only low tier capable of this tactic. The thing you will find most Puffs doing is Short Hopping and Bairing. Hopping around with Bair is a great way to camp. Especially while retreating, because you are moving away from your opponent(with amazing air speed) and are running the chance of hitting them and adding on more damage! Plus, because she can fly, puff can stay in the air to avoid many ground characters.

So, a combination of Planking, Scrooging, Retreating Bairs, and flying high and away from your opponent are great ways of camping. The point is; don't just DACUS straight at your opponent, and turn around and roll-out if it didn't work. Being aggressive rarely works with puff, but camping and poking with Bair does. You should always be willing to camp. In the words of Mew2King "You don't have to approach until the timer says 1 minute."
Practice keeping away from your opponents, and you'll start to improve in tournament as well. Try playing with a CPU MetaKnight in a match, and setting custom controls so you can only shield and jump. Make the match last 8 minutes, then add in your normal controls, and try camping while poking, and you'll find it much safer and more effective than being Aggressive.
 
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#2
Update Log:

~December 1st, 2012. Thread made, Pros and Cons/Move Analysis added

~December 5th, 2012. Fixed broken hitbox images

~December 6th, 2012. Wrote temp Introduction, wrote Camping section.
 

Grim Tuesday

Smash Legend
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#3
Harsh Critique

Jab is never going to cause an SD or link into Fsmash.
It's not even safe against like, any character... Its only use is comboing into itself and grab if the opponent is caught unawares.

"Mediocre" grab range is not a "pro", by definition.

Bad Match-ups is a result of her cons, and therefore not a con.

Introduction needs complete reworking, doesn't really give any insight into Puff.

The descriptions of the moves needs MAJOR reworking. Lots of factual errors, irrelevant information and overly personal language:

------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm going to make a video guide in the next few months, so we'll see how that goes
 
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#4
You and every other puff is more than welcome to write some of this stuff out. I started the thread saying I'd love the help, and that this isn't supposed to be completely my guide.


Thanks for pointing out jab. I just copy/pasted it from the old guide, then started the same thing on her utilt and saw that the move set analsys even were super outdated.

:phone:
 

teluoborg

Smash Otter
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NNID
teloutre
#6
>says the old guide is very outdated
>copy-pastes the moves descriptions

hmmmm


Frame data needs to be simplified to
Hits on frames X-Y
IASA frame X
-X advantage on shield
landing lag and autocancel for aerials
Maybe get on hit advantage for jab1 and jab2

Knockback numbers are irrelevant because they don't mean anything in absolute and are just cool to use them relatively, you can put them in a collapse somewhere else (maybe in the killing chapter).

Yeah just throw away the move comments cmopletely, they aren't fit for competitive Jiggs and won't help at all if the opponent knows what he's doing.
 
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#8
No offence, but I'd definitely value the old guide higher than this one.

Has there actually been a movement from other Jiggs board members for a new guide? If you ask me, you should find a better use for your time. If you insist on following through, at least come back when you have more to offer.

I'm going to close this. Discussion about a guide, old or new, can take place in the existing, stickied thread.
 
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