• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

The Neutral Game

Aggromidget

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 22, 2010
Messages
193
Hey guys
I wanted to reignite a discussion here.
I'd very much like to hear how YOU deal with the neutral game. (Assume we're not playing against a Falco. Pretend vs. Falcon/Fox/Marth/Sheik. I'm sure some of you have different neutral games for fighting against different characters. Maybe elucidate yourself? Personally, I space the same every time)
I think the neutral game is next to non-existent when I watch Falcons on stream.
Assume the neutral game is when you're both on stage (not on platforms) on opposite sides.

Do you dash dance super fast?
Do you dash dance super slow?
Do you dash dance only and mix up the speed, then randomly/deliberately going in with a n-air?
Do you skip the dash dance and run in with an aerial in their space?
Do you skip the dash dance and run in with an aerial just outside their space?
Do you space knees?
Do you space b-airs (I love b-air)?

I wanna share what I do, and maybe you'll find it helpful, and maybe I'll find a more interesting/effective technique.
Here it is (cut and pasted from a post I made in the dash dancing thread):
I prefer to do a n-air on the tip of their shield range, so he can't approach until the attack is finished, then I initiate a dash away and do a short hop, watching for a reaction. If they roll behind on reaction to the n-air, I try for stomp. If they initiate a dash towards me, my b-air comes out.
Pivot, then n-air again near the shield range. Dash away, react with b-air/stomp.
If they're in shield, I'll probably go in for a grab.
Note, they're not necessarily shielding.

What say ye?
 

gravy

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 4, 2009
Messages
560
I feel bad that there hasn't been an answer but I feel like I don't have the best neutral game. From what I understand though, the important thing to keep in mind is figuring out where they'll actually be when your attack comes out. With this, everything else (move choice, spacing, etc) will fall into place.
 

Zhea

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 10, 2012
Messages
962
Location
San Antonio Texas
I feel like against the top 5 (Fox, Falco, Sheik, Puff, Marth), most of Falcon's neutral is waiting for them to mess up. Out side of that it's a lot of DD, platform movement and full hops to keep center stage, because stage available = combo damage for Falcon. I could be wrong. Been trying to focus on this for awhile, and I feel like the prevailing metagame for neutral is different for each of the top tiers.

I'd like to hear S2J and Hax weigh in on this.
 

TerryJ

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 12, 2010
Messages
488
Location
BEST COAST, WA
NNID
1337-1337-1337
3DS FC
1337-1337-1337
My Neutral Game is traaaash. I noted like a month ago that I often try to convert getting hit into a combo but I usually fall short and end up eating more combos. Because of that I've been trying to work getting back into the Neutral game instead of always trying to convert.

If by chance I do get back into neutral, I'll try and play with the platforms to mixup my approaches but that usually just results in tech-flubs and I get punished. I really need more practice.
 

Captain Smuckers

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 5, 2010
Messages
492
Location
Mount Vernon, NY
I like literally just space pivot nairs until an opportunity to grab arises. I guess I don't frequently play the best of the best, but it usually works surprisingly well for me. If only I could punish <_<
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
you don't have to necessarily wait for them to completely butcher their approach, for example, strong knee on shield --> grab asap is actually a good choice. At the least it's a strong mixup if you choose to knee gentlemen shield a lot and the opponent knows it


I will say though in general, Falcon has to adapt to the Fox player. Sometimes nair spamming is the best, or dash dance camping. There's so many little situations decided by pixels or frames that it's hard to say that x option is the best for x situation, and that's not even including platforms.

Sometimes you want to create a situation that most wouldn't expect, even if its a gamble

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHJVLDV0exk at 9:57 i choose to side-B with the plan to CC hits to at least tech in place immediately if I get knocked down or if I get hit by a weak n-air I can CC, shield and punish. That's actually what panned out and I got a grab for it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

He-Man1

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 20, 2012
Messages
21
you don't have to necessarily wait for them to completely butcher their approach, for example, strong knee on shield --> grab asap is actually a good choice. At the least it's a strong mixup if you choose to knee gentlemen shield a lot and the opponent knows it


I will say though in general, Falcon has to adapt to the Fox player. Sometimes nair spamming is the best, or dash dance camping. There's so many little situations decided by pixels or frames that it's hard to say that x option is the best for x situation, and that's not even including platforms.

Sometimes you want to create a situation that most wouldn't expect, even if its a gamble

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHJVLDV0exk at 9:57 i choose to side-B with the plan to CC hits to at least tech in place immediately if I get knocked down or if I get hit by a weak n-air I can CC, shield and punish. That's actually what panned out and I got a grab for it.
Wow I would have never thought of side Bing into the nair on purpose.

I've noticed that when being shield pressured by spacies, you land a lot of shield grabs (especially off powershields). How do you decide when to go for the shield grab?
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Mostly by reaction, I've had years of experience vs good fox players in socal so I know when they barely **** up

In some close spots I go for the grab, sometimes the worst case is a shine which sometimes isn't too bad of a punsih
 

Nicco

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
328
What S2J and Gravy said.

You can't rely on one move or strategy. At least that's not how I do. I used to just space nairs and wait for opportunities. Now I just think like this: Do whatever it takes to not get hit, and whatever it takes to phuck up ur opponent. Don't be afraid to approach/overshoot. Know where your opponent will be and stomp the zhit outta him. Falcons nair is easy to CC punish, so you have to mix it up. Vary your DD speed/length. Do alot of wavedashing, and wavelands. Never stand still! Learn to shield drop, both standing and running. Dropping from a plat out of a dash to a knee/bair/single nair/stomp, takes most players by surprise. Also, learn to consistently pivot into anything. Learning these techniques expands Falcons repetoire, and makes him a phucking raype machine!

Kikki out
 

Nicco

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
328
Another great piece of advice coming

"Don't listen to advice" - Markus "Notch" Persson
 

Sleepy

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 6, 2006
Messages
651
Location
Pasadena, CA (626)
I'm by no means good, or have authority over any matchup.

I'd personally say, misplaced nairs usually are death against good spacies.

If I were to approach the matchup strictly by my own standpoint, it would be a combination of variable dash dances (slow when away, faster when going in). Dashdance grab tends to be unfavorable for spacies because of the fact that they can shine after a relatively quick sidestep. Spaced nair, either toetap or crossup can be favorable, provided the opponent's chosen character doesn't have a incredible OoS game.

I'll just list the possibilities based on characters I think are problematic:
Marth: bait and grab, too good with the 30%+ followups with uair and 100%+ knee
Falco: hopefully you have platforms, and can force him not to shoot you somehow, then nair or uair in.
Fox: nair a lot? if you're gonna go for a grab read the statement above the character matchups.
sheik: pray, but seriously if you can try not to chase her, you'll likely always lose unless you somehow get a nice uthrow into combo
Samus: space everything well, don't attack her shield too hard, she will upb out (mango is good at avoiding it), only nair at like 50%+
Peach: nairs work well once she gets past 20%, but you shuold be going for throws, since she'll eat lots of damage off nair or throws? Uair is also pretty good
ICs: I suck at this one, don't get grabbed and don't do obvious knees/raptor boosts/stomps (do not grab them if they are together)
 

Mommydrummer

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 23, 2018
Messages
4
spacing is everything for falcon; working on the placement of your nairs is important (so you are hitting them with the very tips of your toes)
fade of your aerials helps with this.
Don't just jump and Nair, sometimes you need to fade back as you are in the air so you are just outside their punishes

a great rule of thumb not just for falcon is to never commit until you know you can get a hit/grab don't just throw out hitboxes and hope they don't avoid or block them
you can get a feel for this by tomahawking or dash in wavedash back all just to see how they play the matchup and from that you build your strategy.

note on dashdanceing lengthen you dash away with wavedashing so they are more likely to undershoot their approach
 

ShiftingShadows28

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 21, 2008
Messages
335
Location
Edinburgh, Scotland
For me when i am playing well it is all about being at good ranges. Using dash dance to weave in and out of a good range to bait a response, PP is great at this. A good range vs fox for example is just outside of dash sh nair.

Playing SF helped me a bunch with this as ranges of moves are super important however translating to melee isn't as straightforward because movement is nuts and fast
 
Last edited:

Melonsismyusername

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 14, 2019
Messages
153
You cant rely on one strategy as your opponent will counter it, rather a series of 50/50s chosen through understanding your character and what the other characters options are. you cant play neutral very well without knowing your and their options and how to shut them down, ie puff in the corner vs center stage if puff is in the corner, what you can do is take advantage of her limited/worse options things such as grab to knee become better as well as challenging puff as you wont lose as much, etc. Understanding the corner and stage position as well as the options your opponent has in their position is integeral to the neutral game as these are the most important aspects of the neutral, atleast to me through the eyes of a falcon.

Helpful links for neutral.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQ83UfsHR2Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyO7L5YnRUs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQQCan5oo90
https://smashboards.com/threads/falco-discussion-thread.256826/page-237#post-13305125
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ-6qKQOpLQ&list=PLHfL2_4YCJOBbxZqhNKlZkZM0tcBr7HI6

pt 1
http://kirbykazemeleeblog.blogspot.com/2014/07/goals-in-ssbm-intro-to-player-vs-player.html?m=1

pt 2
http://kirbykazemeleeblog.blogspot.com/2014/07/goals-in-ssbm-intro-to-player-vs-player_26.html?m=1

General fgc stuff
https://www.reddit.com/r/SSBM/comments/34fyvg/the_best_the_fgc_has_to_offer/

How to git gud
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXvKpe5MP0s

More neutral disscusion.
https://nmwhittier.wordpress.com/2016/09/12/how-to-learn-the-neutral-game/
https://nmwhittier.wordpress.com/20...hats-good-playing-your-game-and-conditioning/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=273tHua4wGc

Understanding other peoples combos and how they start them.
https://smashboards.com/threads/combo-vid-compilation-286-videos.138409/
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom