The New Phantom Thief of Persona 5 The Royal - Kasumi Yoshizawa/"Jane"

[Teeb147]

anyway

honestly, i think the biggest problem with jane's absence is that, assuming it's the P5R girl, no theory made to explain it really holds up under scrutiny. it's not cross-dressing joker, it's not morgana, it's not ann, it's not arsene, it wasn't a brief experiment because the model is nearly finished.

if it was cut, why would a whole new game's promotion--certainly one that atlus has been spending the past 4 months hyping up--be sliced out entirely? what kind of beef went down between nintendo and atlus in the first-second month of joker's development to necessitate removing her?

equally, if it was meant to be an echo fighter for later, why finish the model so early? P5R is unlikely to have finalised soejima artwork or an english voice for the girl until the middle of the year at least, and if they were already planning to add her later, why is there no room after joker's two spirits in the files to accommodate presumably two more?

at this point, i'm just sort of reserving judgement until P5R on the 24th can confirm whether or not she's actually a feMC. if she is (and i believe she is from her generic design alone), then jane theories have some life left in them; if she isn't, i'd put her chances down as dead right there and then.

The thing is we know nothing about nintendo's development practices more specifically, so for all we know they might always finish the beta models before using/testing them in game and finishing them up later, or right out finishing models before that. A lot of it is up in the air.

Just the fact that atlus only wants to reveal more info at the concert is enough to understand why there's nothing p5r related in smash right now.
If my holmes theory is somehow right then they definitely told nintendo about the royal to some degree, yet there isn't anything in smash with it right now.

I'm not leaning towards that we'll have something after the news, but I'm definitely open to it, with everything.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I don't need Richter to feel more useful. Please no more 'because they can' echoes.

 

[Teeb147]

I don't need Richter to feel more useful. Please no more 'because they can' echoes.

Richter might've been the original one they planned as the character since it's the more popular in japan. I think a lot of people are glad to play as their favorite (or both). I think echos are cool for what they offer for low development time. I'm just surprised there werent more, like shadow.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Richter might've been the original one they planned as the character since it's the more popular in japan. I think a lot of people are glad to play as their favorite (or both). I think echos are cool for what they offer for low development time. I'm just surprised there werent more, like shadow.

It could have just been a character swap.
I'm not angry about it, I just find Richter incredibly useless. Even if he is the stud of the game.
Maybe I am also bothered just slightly at how Zero and other Echo options were treated.
Yeah. Maybe I just want a whole lot more, some given the Ken treatment of being basically new characters (Dixie and Tails).

 

[Teeb147]

It could have just been a character swap.
I'm not angry about it, I just find Richter incredibly useless. Even if he is the stud of the game.
Maybe I am also bothered just slightly at how Zero and other Echo options were treated.
Yeah. Maybe I just want a whole lot more, some given the Ken treatment of being basically new characters (Dixie and Tails).

I agree that Richter could've been a costume alt. It's possible they wanted to go all out though, like how they put so much castlevania music in. Personally I would've been 100% with only one fighter with the alt. I would've liked them to at least differentiate them more than the difference for holy water to justify an echo. Also, I dont get why they 'fixed' daisy's turnip. just when we were glad there was a difference :/

Dixie I can see, especially if they add some hair move in the b attacks. Tails I dont see at all because the models and attacks wouldn't fit well enough. Zero I'm iffy about but considering the megaman they went with, I dont think it would've worked (the frames are very different):

I think in general the more the marrier tho. Echos dont really 'take a slot' and most of the work goes into making the model, so I'm ok with a lot of them, especially since they have the functionality to stack them on the character screen.

 

[EarlTamm]

the design similarity is a large part of what makes me convinced. it's very derivative, but in the wake of P3P's feMC featuring in PQ2 it seems designed to evoke the fanbase's nostalgia for her (hence everyone's immediate assumption before the teaser was translated being 'yup feMC'). her dialogue going against the phantom thieves made people reconsider, but i'd be surprised if that wasn't a well-placed red herring.

Either that or they are invoking that nostalgia for a different reason. Akechi invoked a lot of Naoto and general P4 traits in his character for an effect, so perhaps they could be trying to do something similar with Jane?

also for those who haven't seen it (does double posting apply outside ultimate social thread? idk), vaanrose posted a comprehensive breakdown of the jane situation over on the social thread

honestly, jane originally being 2 of joker's costumes would explain why the purple skin + beige uniform seem kinda thrown in and not based off anything - they could have originally had the following setup:

1: joker
2: uniform
3: p3
4: p4 (these three in keeping with the '3, 4, 5' reference corresponding to their games)
5: p5
6: crow
7: jane thief
8: jane uniform

That was an interesting and well detailed read. It's nice to have all that info in one place. Those two skins do seem kinda odd now that you mention it, as they are outliers.

 

[OnyanRings]

DLC costumes would be sweet !
Although i'm kinda hoping Jane is Jill Valentine.

Spoiler

Her main appearance would be her classic s.t.a.r.s outfit :

While her 7th and 8th alt slot could be her REV/REV2/MERC3D apperance (Notice the ponytail) :

And you know, Joker has a gun and she has a gun it makes sense !... sort of...

 

[EarlTamm]

DLC costumes would be sweet !
Although i'm kinda hoping Jane is Jill Valentine.

Spoiler

Her main appearance would be her classic s.t.a.r.s outfit :

While her 7th and 8th alt slot could be her REV/REV2/MERC3D apperance (Notice the ponytail) :

And you know, Joker has a gun and she has a gun it makes sense !... sort of...

Jill would be pretty cool, but why would she have been in a file classified under Jokers code name Jack? That doesn't make too much sense to me, but then again I am not the most knowledgeable about programming.

 

[Teeb147]

I posted this in the past and in response to the post Gentlepanda linked, but the file string is tied to joker's costume. It's not two seperate files like some people have talked about. The proof is in how maya works and saves hair cache files:

As you can see marked in red, the file saves as 'cacheTest.mb_hairSystemShape1.mchp'. (which is just a template example)

It's identical in format to the file found for jane:
'Jack6_C06_v01_070925.mb_Jane1_pony_hairSystemShape2.mchp'

the 'Jack#.mb' refers to the project set for jack's model (specically the 7th costume in this case) and the rest is the name of the hair & animation tied to that set. As one file string.

I hope that putting this here can be an easy reference for people who thought they could be unrelated files.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I agree that Richter could've been a costume alt. It's possible they wanted to go all out though, like how they put so much castlevania music in. Personally I would've been 100% with only one fighter with the alt. I would've liked them to at least differentiate them more than the difference for holy water to justify an echo. Also, I dont get why they 'fixed' daisy's turnip. just when we were glad there was a difference :/

Dixie I can see, especially if they add some hair move in the b attacks. Tails I dont see at all because the models and attacks wouldn't fit well enough. Zero I'm iffy about but considering the megaman they went with, I dont think it would've worked (the frames are very different):

I think that Ken got so much new added to him, that 'echo' really is a lose term.
All I need from Dixie is her hover mechanic and hair grabs. Everything else translates easily from Diddy.
Tails- well similarly. Just with a hover mechanic and balancing around it. The only tech I feel he 'needs' is the Tornado FS.
I was unaware of Daisy, though- that stinks! The turnips were a fun surprise.

I think in general the more the marrier tho. Echos dont really 'take a slot' and most of the work goes into making the model, so I'm ok with a lot of them, especially since they have the functionality to stack them on the character screen.

As for a theoretical Jane, and actual Richter, I am also in the 'more the merrier.' It's why I thought Megaman was prime for some kind of echo.
As well as Sonic.
I just didn't get enough, actually. They could have done many more that made sense, to me.
I would have preferred once I have some sentiment towards, of course.
Hell, even Waluigi could have been an echo- stretched Luigi skeleton and Wario moveset. Problem solved.

 

[Teeb147]

I think that Ken got so much new added to him, that 'echo' really is a lose term.
All I need from Dixie is her hover mechanic and hair grabs. Everything else translates easily from Diddy.
Tails- well similarly. Just with a hover mechanic and balancing around it. The only tech I feel he 'needs' is the Tornado FS.
I was unaware of Daisy, though- that stinks! The turnips were a fun surprise.


As for a theoretical Jane, and actual Richter, I am also in the 'more the merrier.' It's why I thought Megaman was prime for some kind of echo.
As well as Sonic.
I just didn't get enough, actually. They could have done many more that made sense, to me.
I would have preferred once I have some sentiment towards, of course.
Hell, even Waluigi could have been an echo- stretched Luigi skeleton and Wario moveset. Problem solved.

I think echos are great but they could've done clone characters too. Isabelle is an example of that, closely followed by ken. But one of the reasons sakurai gave as to why isabelle couldn't be an echo of villager was the height.
The height and the model's frame may have to match or else there's just too much that has to be reworked. It might also be a reason we didnt get more, but I still think Shadow and dixie could've been easy.

Other than that, yeah definitely could've had more of them.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I think echos are great but they could've done clone characters too. Isabelle is an example of that, closely followed by ken. But one of the reasons sakurai gave as to why isabelle couldn't be an echo of villager was the height.
The height and the model's frame have to match or else there's just too much that has to be reworked. It might also be a reason we didnt get more, but I still think Shadow could've been one easy.

I thought what he said about Isabelle was in relation to the animations.
Lucina is an echo, and one of the reasons she was stated in Sm4sh to not be an alt costume, if I recall, was due to a height difference.

I think Isabelle bends and Villager does not, not to mention fully different animations. And for what its worth, just getting more Animal Crossing slots in the roster was probably helpful, regardless of what PR would allow to be said.

Either way- Ken is basically a clone. So I group in Dixie, Tails, Sub Zero, and maybe more, into possibilities of 'echo' fighters. It really just isn't defined at all as far as anyone has ever been able to show me.




Getting back to Jane- DLC would work as an alt for me. Even a paid alt. I'd much more likely buy alt costumes than what I consider to be trashy Mii costumes.

 

[Gentlepanda]

echoes were such a big part of ultimate's marketing that i'd be a little surprised if we'd seen the last of them anyway

characters like octolings, for example, are quick and easy crowd pleasers that give the team a chance to add music/content from titles released after the original cut-off date that don't quite justify an entirely new fighter's pass character

 

[Teeb147]

I thought what he said about Isabelle was in relation to the animations.
Lucina is an echo, and one of the reasons she was stated in Sm4sh to not be an alt costume, if I recall, was due to a height difference.

I think Isabelle bends and Villager does not, not to mention fully different animations. And for what its worth, just getting more Animal Crossing slots in the roster was probably helpful, regardless of what PR would allow to be said.

Either way- Ken is basically a clone. So I group in Dixie, Tails, Sub Zero, and maybe more, into possibilities of 'echo' fighters. It really just isn't defined at all as far as anyone has ever been able to show me.




Getting back to Jane- DLC would work as an alt for me. Even a paid alt. I'd much more likely buy alt costumes than what I consider to be trashy Mii costumes.

Marth and Lucina are the same height.

And Sakurai did mention the animations, but he also said:
"Isabelle is based off of Villager. She pockets items and rides on a balloon swing. However, she is not an Echo Fighter. This is because Isabelle and Villager have fundamentally different body types and personalities, so we couldn’t have made her an Echo."
+
"She and the human characters were a little taller and slimmer than characters in previous installments in the series. Her appearance in Ultimate is largely based off those proportions. By comparison, Villager is slightly shorter and stouter. "

He mentions it's that they were 'slightly' shorter and stouter. So even a little matters. And considering that their body types arent as different as tails to sonic and zero to megaman, I think that can be a reason they wouldn't be echos.

Anyway, that's just what a lot of people took to mean the body matters. And Ken probably took a lot longer than the other echos because of the different moves. Which I'm all for, just obviously it has to be quick to make to not use too many resources.


And I have no idea if echos for dlc can be a thing, but I do think it would make sense still, considering it could please people and not cost a lot.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Marth and Lucina are the same height.

And Sakurai did mention the animations, but he also said:
"Isabelle is based off of Villager. She pockets items and rides on a balloon swing. However, she is not an Echo Fighter. This is because Isabelle and Villager have fundamentally different body types and personalities, so we couldn’t have made her an Echo."
+
"She and the human characters were a little taller and slimmer than characters in previous installments in the series. Her appearance in Ultimate is largely based off those proportions. By comparison, Villager is slightly shorter and stouter. "

He mentions it's that they were 'slightly' shorter and stouter. So even a little matters. And considering that their body types arent as different as tails to sonic and zero to megaman, I think that can be a reason they wouldn't be echos.

Anyway, that's just what a lot of people took to mean the body matters. And Ken probably took a lot longer than the other echos because of the different moves. Which I'm all for, just obviously it has to be quick to make to not use too many resources.


And I have no idea if echos for dlc can be a thing, but I do think it would make sense still, considering it could please people and not cost a lot.

That angle makes any comparisons completely subjective. It would be better to get a flat view of the both of them on the grid/training field.
That said, Sakurai specifically said:

While Lucina’s abilities are identical to Marth’s, as it must be in her DNA, Sakurai explains that Marth’s power is concentrated at the tip of his sword, while Lucina’s attack strength is balanced throughout her weapon, making her easier to control. She’s also a bit shorter than Marth.

Source: https://www.siliconera.com/2014/07/15/sakurai-talks-difference-lucina-marth-smash-bros/

You also have not been able to tell me why Ken is not considered a 'clone,' versus an Echo. It just doesnt make sense. He has 5 fully fleshed out differences.
As for echoes in Smash, we were told that they would not be in as the 5 'slots,' for pay- but that doesnt mean we could not get one for free.

 

[Teeb147]

That angle makes any comparisons completely subjective. It would be better to get a flat view of the both of them on the grid/training field.
That said, Sakurai specifically said:

Source: https://www.siliconera.com/2014/07/15/sakurai-talks-difference-lucina-marth-smash-bros/

You also have not been able to tell me why Ken is not considered a 'clone,' versus an Echo. It just doesnt make sense. He has 5 fully fleshed out differences.
As for echoes in Smash, we were told that they would not be in as the 5 'slots,' for pay- but that doesnt mean we could not get one for free.

Thanks. If there is a difference, it's so slight that it's barely noticeable:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D3lmJXZV4AAFIJZ.jpg:large

So it probably doesn't impact anything with their hurt and hit boxes.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Thanks. If there is a difference, it's so slight that it's barely noticeable:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D3lmJXZV4AAFIJZ.jpg:large

So it probably doesn't impact anything with their hurt and hit boxes.

It's just another example of how 'what is said,' does not translate to 'what is the truth.'
Nothing malicious, or even to mislead, even implied. Public Relations is an entire field for a reason.

 

[Teeb147]

It's just another example of how 'what is said,' does not translate to 'what is the truth.'
Nothing malicious, or even to mislead, even implied. Public Relations is an entire field for a reason.

I think they may sometimes say things that there's more to, but we can't just dismiss them as if they're lyers. I pointed out what the standards probably are from everything we saw..

Ken shouldn't be considered an echo, imo, but that he is makes me think it has more to do with the character model and boxes, and then they can add or change some moves to differentiate them more. Isabelle would've had some differences with the hitboxes so she's her own character, while ken doesn't and they just went further than usual in changing up some moves. Animations can go over the character, like how dark samus has different ones but still the same boxes.

That's my take on it anyway, and I think that's roughly what people consider for echos. Criteria being that it has to first be able to fit the same boxes, and chanigng up the moves comes second, kind of like a bonus.

 

[EarlTamm]

I know we don't know anything about Jane's capabilities besides what we infer from her being attached to Joker, but how do you think she can differ as an echo from Joker? Stats, moves, properties, etc. Nice discussion to have before we could possibly get some answers on the 24th.

 

[Gentlepanda]

everybody get your ass on down to the ultimate social thread, it's happening

or at least, vaanrose is happening again

 

[EarlTamm]

everybody get your *** on down to the ultimate social thread, it's happening

or at least, vaanrose is happening again

Okay let's see here...

I tested this myself and can confirm "[x].mb_hairSystemShape.mchp" is the way Maya automatically handles hair system cache filenames. Joker and Jane are 100% connected and she is not Jill, Lara or any other random girl with a ponytail.

Nice.

Edit:
I will say, from what I can gather from the reaction to this development, it seemed like the common theory was that it was Jill, which was briefly brought up here. That might explain why there is so many no votes in the poll as of now, as that was a popular theory I was completely unaware of because I don't visit the Ultimate Social Thread. It goes way too fast for me as of now.

 

[Clumsyzephyr]

everybody get your *** on down to the ultimate social thread, it's happening

or at least, vaanrose is happening again

Oh boy, that's interesting.

Anyone know if the concert is gonna be streamed anywhere? Or are we just gonna have to wait for announcements?

 

[Teeb147]

Well i'm glad jane boomed again at least a bit in that thread, tho it's also weird how people can be in the general thread
And, means not being as much underdogs :/

Oh boy, that's interesting.

Anyone know if the concert is gonna be streamed anywhere? Or are we just gonna have to wait for announcements?

I dont know if all of it will be, but you can bet i'll try to find a stream and will share it here and in the joker thread if it's easy to find. I'm sure others'll try to get info as soon as they can too.

 

[EarlTamm]

What I should be thinking about in regards to Jane:
What is her role in P5R? How would her moveset differ from Joker? For what reason was she made the way she is in the data?
What is haunting me right now:
How the heck is the Smash fanbase going to insert Jane into the Joker family dynamic? Will she make her own? Is Roy going to be her brother to the fanbase because they are both teenagers with red hair who are technically appearing before the game they first appear in comes out?

So that's been my last half hour, how is Jane going right now?
Also, how do you guys think of this font color? I wanted something that matched my icon while not being pure red. Hopefully it does not strain the eyes.

 

[Teeb147]

What I should be think about in regards to Jane:
What is her role in P5R? How would her moveset differ from Joker? For what reason was she made the way she is in the data?
What is haunting me right now:
How the heck is the Smash fanbase going to insert Jane into the Joker family dynamic? Will she make her own? Is Roy going to be her brother to the fanbase because they are both teenagers with red hair who are technically appearing before the game they first appear in comes out?

So that's been my last half hour, how is Jane going right now?
Also, how do you guys think of this font color? I wanted something that matched my icon while not being pure red. Hopefully it does not strain the eyes.

What?

I think we need to be on the lookout for everything around her Yes her role, and also any story elements could help. And of course, if we see her weapons and persona that could say a lot. Back to the poll we didn't have; Is she a main character, is she a side character but still playable somehow? A member of the thieves, or another faction? Or is she something completely different? So many questions

& that font color works fine.

 

[Izanagi97]

I know we don't know anything about Jane's capabilities besides what we infer from her being attached to Joker, but how do you think she can differ as an echo from Joker? Stats, moves, properties, etc. Nice discussion to have before we could possibly get some answers on the 24th.

Only idea I have for how she could differ as an echo fighter is that she uses Kouha/Kougaon instead of Eiha/Eigaon and persona attacks that do darkness damage (which is pretty much Side B, Rebel's Guard, A!jab, and A!Ftilt) instead do aura damage (it's basically the closest we have to an actual light or holy element damage type). I'm pretty sure someone else can come up with something better than what I have.

 

[EarlTamm]

What?

In case you don't know what I mean by the Joker family dynamic, I am just going to put this up. I think it sums it up pretty good.

Spoiler: Art

https://mobile.twitter.com/somebutts/status/1119597305739370497

Also this. Because heartwarming.

https://mobile.twitter.com/kianamaiart/status/1118791620831244289

I think we need to be on the lookout for everything around her Yes her role, and also any story elements could help. And of course, if we see her weapons and persona that could say a lot. Back to the poll we didn't have; Is she a main character, is she a side character but still playable somehow? A member of the thieves, or another faction? Or is she something completely different? So many questions

Definitely to all of this. I think the most important thing to note is her abilities and Persona, as that will showcase her echo possibility.

& that font color works fine.

Thanks.

Only idea I have for how she could differ as an echo fighter is that she uses Kouha/Kougaon instead of Eiha/Eigaon and persona attacks that do darkness damage (which is pretty much Side B, Rebel's Guard, A!jab, and A!Ftilt) instead do aura damage (it's basically the closest we have to an actual light or holy element damage type). I'm pretty sure someone else can come up with something better than what I have.

That is certainly possible, especially depending on what her Persona is. I think her gun could differ as well, either in speed or damage, but it would still likely be something similar to Jokers gun in type.

 

[ProfPeanut]

I'll say this much: I'd feel a lot better speculating about Jane if we could get at least one more dataminer to confirm these files. These are some very specific and very tall orders to believe.

As it stands, it's pretty difficult to talk about someone who's the literal definition of a Literally Who. There's some interesting implications to mull over, of course - was/is Sakurai really going to give the Corrin/Roy treatment to a third-party? - but it does seem like it'd be wiser to wait for Atlus to release more info later this week than to stew over the bits that we have now.

 

[Clumsyzephyr]

https://smashboards.com/threads/ult...-online-division-edition.467706/post-23251194

Saw this in the general thread and was wondering what you all thought.

 

[Teeb147]

https://smashboards.com/threads/ult...-online-division-edition.467706/post-23251194

Saw this in the general thread and was wondering what you all thought.

Why would they want to test out ponytail physics on joker? lol

 

[EarlTamm]

I'll say this much: I'd feel a lot better speculating about Jane if we could get at least one more dataminer to confirm these files. These are some very specific and very tall orders to believe.

As it stands, it's pretty difficult to talk about someone who's the literal definition of a Literally Who. There's some interesting implications to mull over, of course - was/is Sakurai really going to give the Corrin/Roy treatment to a third-party? - but it does seem like it'd be wiser to wait for Atlus to release more info later this week than to stew over the bits that we have now.

While I don't think she is a literal who(Though to be fair, we are probably the closest and would have been if this thread had been made with only the teaser info), Jane's existence has all kinds of implications that need to be examined thoroughly. And there has been more than one and seems to generaly be accepted in the datamine community, so I think it's fine.

https://smashboards.com/threads/ult...-online-division-edition.467706/post-23251194

Saw this in the general thread and was wondering what you all thought.

Doubt it, as I see no reason as to why they would do that for Joker. Plus, the fact that Jane was a term they used does not paint the picture of a model with just jokers ponytail on it.

 

[GoodGrief741]

In case you don't know what I mean by the Joker family dynamic, I am just going to put this up. I think it sums it up pretty good.

Spoiler: Art

https://mobile.twitter.com/somebutts/status/1119597305739370497

Also this. Because heartwarming.

https://mobile.twitter.com/kianamaiart/status/1118791620831244289

Definitely to all of this. I think the most important thing to note is her abilities and Persona, as that will showcase her echo possibility.

Thanks.

That is certainly possible, especially depending on what her Persona is. I think her gun could differ as well, either in speed or damage, but it would still likely be something similar to Jokers gun in type.

Joker family dynamics are the best.

 

[EarlTamm]

Joker family dynamics are the best.

Yeah they are. It's ever evolving and ever present in the community, so I imagine adding another Persona character into the equation will cause a reaction of some kind.

 

[Teeb147]

In case you don't know what I mean by the Joker family dynamic, I am just going to put this up. I think it sums it up pretty good.

Spoiler: Art

https://mobile.twitter.com/somebutts/status/1119597305739370497

Also this. Because heartwarming.

https://mobile.twitter.com/kianamaiart/status/1118791620831244289

Definitely to all of this. I think the most important thing to note is her abilities and Persona, as that will showcase her echo possibility.

Thanks.

That is certainly possible, especially depending on what her Persona is. I think her gun could differ as well, either in speed or damage, but it would still likely be something similar to Jokers gun in type.

I forgot to reply to your family stuff. Yeh I should've figured it'd catch on ;p
Maybe jane could be a step sister and they dont get fully along or something.

also, i changed up my avatar and sig, hopefully people still recognize me

 

[EarlTamm]

I forgot to reply to your family stuff. Yeh I should've figured it'd catch on ;p
Maybe jane could be a step sister and they dont get fully along or something.

also, i changed up my avatar and sig, hopefully people still recognize me

Hopefully she will not become the red haired stepchild of the family.

I am not sorry.

Edit:
Don't worry about your icon, I am pretty sure everyone is already used to it.

 

[Teeb147]

Hopefully she will not become the red haired stepchild of the family.

I am not sorry.

You dont want that? do you know red haired stepchilds or something? ;p
Maybe she's not a loner like my impression of her for whatever reason. She could be anything, We really didn't get enough about her. thankfully that's changing soon

 

[EarlTamm]

You dont want that? do you know red haired stepchilds or something? ;p
Maybe she's not a loner like my impression of her for whatever reason. She could be anything, We really didn't get enough about her. thankfully that's changing soon

Her personality could result in her being a bit of a loner, but I was mainly saying she could be a red haired step child in the dynamic because she has red hair.

Anyway, I had a thought on how they could differentiate a Joker echo. What if they changed the rate at which you fill up your gauge for your Persona? For example, an echo could have their gauge fill up quicker over time than Joker, but gaining gauge by guarding is less effective. Or the other way around, the only way to gain gauge is by guarding, but what you get from it is even better.

 

[Teeb147]

Her personality could result in her being a bit of a loner, but I was mainly saying she could be a red haired step child in the dynamic because she has red hair.

Anyway, I had a thought on how they could differentiate a Joker echo. What if they changed the rate at which you fill up your gauge for your Persona? For example, an echo could have their gauge fill up quicker over time than Joker, but gaining gauge by guarding is less effective. Or the other way around, the only way to gain gauge is by guarding, but what you get from it is even better.

Hmm. I wouldn't mind that, but i dont feel like they'd to that one. Well,..who knows. The rebel's guard is good against projectile character but apart from that it has quite a bit of lag at the end so i'd like it if she could charge it up more without needing that. I feel like the guard already fills quite a lot so the other way around would be fine. Maybe including when she attacks, not just when hit.

I like Izanagi97 's side-b idea too, for light damage rather than dark. I also thought that it could be cool if she had a different color for her knife trails. Joker's are red, so hers could be blue or green or something. And other than that, maybe she'd have a different up-b instead of the hook.

 

[EarlTamm]

Hmm. I wouldn't mind that, but i dont feel like they'd to that one. Well,..who knows. The rebel's guard is good against projectile character but apart from that it has quite a bit of lag at the end so i'd like it if she could charge it up more without needing that. I feel like the guard already fills quite a lot so the other way around would be fine. Maybe including when she attacks, not just when hit.

I like Izanagi97 's side-b idea too, for light damage rather than dark. I also thought that it could be cool if she had a different color for her knife trails. Joker's are red, so hers could be blue or green or something. And other than that, maybe she'd have a different up-b instead of the hook.

I guess it could also be a general thing. An echo could fill up the bar in general much faster than Joker, but the Persona's time out is shorter as well. This could also be reversed, having the bar take longer, but the Persona staying longer as well.

I think her trail would still be red, as the Mii costumes of Yu and Door-kun have a similar effect with their game colors(Yellow and blue). I think she would keep the hook as well, which is the special I see least likely to change. Wings of Rebellion might change though.

 

[ProfPeanut]

While I don't think she is a literal who(Though to be fair, we are probably the closest and would have been if this thread had been made with only the teaser info), Jane's existence has all kinds of implications that need to be examined thoroughly. And there has been more than one and seems to generaly be accepted in the datamine community, so I think it's fine.

All I'm saying is, Jane's existence can be thoroughly examined a lot better once we know who she's supposed to be. Thinking too much into it might build up unreasonable expectations about a character whose role in P5R we don't even know about, let alone how she justifies borrowing Joker's moveset.