The Marth Killer...against other characters

[Bl@ckChris]

The lightshield edgehog. Uses shield DI to grab the edge when hit with an attack when shielding on the ledge. Its known as the marth killer, but i've been using it on a lot of different characters in a lot of different situations such as:

Letting pills/fireballs hit me
Using it against peaches with turnips
Links boomerang
samus projectiles
and of course, as the marth killer.

But i've been wondering if you could use the marth killer to kill other characters with multiple hits in their up B, namely link. To do this, I would think that you would have to input the shield asdi ONLY before the final hit. Those who know the marth killer know that you have to hold out in order to be knocked to the ledge, so against a character with multiple hits, i would think that if you stayed neutral with the lightshield, you'd stay there until you know the last hit is coming, during which you'd hold outwards, and edgehog.

Honestly i have yet to try this out, because i've yet to play a link who wanted to sweetspot since thinking of this. But i was just looking for input on whether this would work under game mechanics or not. Cause if so, i imagine this could technically be done to Roy, Mario, Doc, Samus, young link, and any other character i can't think of with a multi-hit up B.

Thanks.

 

[emiguelsv]

Don't know why, but I imagine a Peach gettin' owned by this. Just a dream.

It might be possible. I've been thinking of this for a long time, but never dare to try, I might try tomorrow.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

The light-shield edgehog can work against Luigi.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

*nods* i did forget that, thanks for reminding me

which makes me wonder...could one lightsheild edgehog nana...and then worry about popo later?

ah the things that inexperience has yet to show me...

 

[Silent Wolf]

Don't know why, but I imagine a Peach gettin' owned by this. Just a dream.

It might be possible. I've been thinking of this for a long time, but never dare to try, I might try tomorrow.

it doesnt work on peach. her umbrella is multiple hits. the first hit will knock you out of your shield and into the next hit.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

oh, in the OP i meant that i use it to di the turnip so i can fall to the ledge.

but thats also the primary idea of what i want to know is possible as well. it'd be really hard to discern against peach, since her umbrella has so many hits, but i want to know that if you don't hold out against multihit upB's until the final hit, would you just go to the edge on the final hit.

Also, many marths use that concept to force characters to the ledge when they don't need to be there, using fair or nair. but if you were to just lightshield with a no DI, you wouldn't be forced to the ledge; instead you'd just shield the nair as the marth continues his fall. then you could start holding towards the ledge, to finish the marth. if what i'm thinking is right, it'd even give you the option of going to the ledge on the second hit of the nair.

 

[AXE 09]

it doesnt work on peach. her umbrella is multiple hits. the first hit will knock you out of your shield and into the next hit.

Yeah, but what if you just don't shield DI off the edge until the very last hit?

I think that if you only block and don't hold any direction, you'll slide backwards (towards the stage) a little after each hit, so that would definitely make this more difficult. Anybody have AR and wanna try this for fun? lol

 

[Bl@ckChris]

mmm....i didn't factor in the force of the hits pushing you toward the stage...

maybe if you shield DI down...you can shield crouch cancel...or something...lol

(I have ideas, but i don't know a whole lot about real in depth game physics/mechanics)

 

[Wenbobular]

My roommate and I tested this vs. Luigi, pretty sure it doesn't work if the Luigi is sweetspotting properly because his first isn't nearly as long as Marth's sword.

 

[pockyD]

it works against peach if she's already in her up-b state and gliding towards the edge

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

I'm pretty sure this may work vs G&W however he has a huge sweetspot and the match I saw him get light sheilded on may not have been the best spaceing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2V3c1tOz7o

go to like 0:51

 

[Dark Sonic]

Unfortunately, I have a hard time believing that your idea would work.

Lightshielding in a neutral position for the first couple hits of their up B would only cause you to be pushed into the stage ever so slightly. But that small push is more than enough to put you out of lightshield edgehog "range," (shield ASDI is very, very small, not to mention that lightshielding increases shield knockback.)

My friends have actually tried your idea against Marth's fair and nair, but shielding them without ASDIing just results in them being pushed into the stage. I imagine the same concept would apply to each hit of multihit up Bs, just on a smaller scale.

To everyone naming random characters...yes, lightshield edge hogging works on any single hitting up Bs <_<.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

Unfortunately, I have a hard time believing that your idea would work.

Lightshielding in a neutral position for the first couple hits of their up B would only cause you to be pushed into the stage ever so slightly. But that small push is more than enough to put you out of lightshield edgehog "range," (shield ASDI is very, very small, not to mention that lightshielding increases shield knockback.)

My friends have actually tried your idea against Marth's fair and nair, but shielding them without ASDIing just results in them being pushed into the stage. I imagine the same concept would apply to each hit of multihit up Bs, just on a smaller scale.

To everyone naming random characters...yes, lightshield edge hogging works on any single hitting up Bs <_<.

hmm, you're right. guess i'll just have to get used to edgeguarding marth and the other characters properly.

now the only thing i can think of is neutral lightshielding to make the marth think i'm holding out, and then after he does the move, wavedashing oos to the edge before he can do anything...but the marth could probably react before i get to the edge...

yay reverse uair

 

[X1-12]

many marths use that concept to force characters to the ledge when they don't need to be there, using fair or nair. .

Can't you spot-dodge/roll the f-air/nair then continue to lightshield their upB?

 

[Bl@ckChris]

...i like the way you think. that would probably work. and if they upB so early as to do it during the roll, they'd be high enough above the stage to react with an uair or bair to put them back off the stage.

 

[Zodiac]

all the hits of links up b can b cc'd except the last one, and there is definetly enough time with faster characters, hell probably all of them, to stand and light sheild real quick. I've never had it done to me before, but in theory it should work just fine, but you can either time it to roll over and light shield or CC and light shield, You would have test it, although cc might shift your position a little bit

 

[Pi]

Can't you spot-dodge/roll the f-air/nair then continue to lightshield their upB?

Sure you could, but if they're close enough to fair/nair....

 

[Dart!]

Revival of melee

 

[Pauer]

I've put it to work against young link and it sure works although grabbing the ledge is more effective most of the time but using a shield simply worked better in that situation. It was after one of the soft hits so I fast fell in order not to get hit by the next one since they come out extremely fast but I don't know whether it's needed (probably is if you're not a fast fastfaller).
I staid on the ledge since his apex was at about short hop height and he he was able to retreat to the ledge again. Afterwards wd - > punish but I only used it like a quick ledgegrab.
You may be able to use it to shine him; you can easily shine him in the middle of his up-b when jumping offstage although I'm not sure whether it will work with all that hitstun.