Guide The Mario Match-Up Discussion Thread

[Melaf]

on falcon??? lol mario destroy falcon well match against inexperienced falcon are **** everytime and very fun for mario

 

[condemned_soul]

There you go soul now quit bugging me

........................... Thanx?


ill say make sure your not always offensive, Utilt beats most of his aerials, falcons Dthrow
can get you faired, uairs juggle falcon pretty well, do not get caught in the air, and angle your smash upwards.......it helps

 

[Melaf]

only thing Im wondering what should I do if I get setup in Uair....personnaly when I do know im begn Uair across the stage I attemp a Up b breaker but well any idea...Falcon is pretty an anti DI character for this

 

[condemned_soul]

I want to bring this back. I know its been a while but i would like to do discussions again. The only problem is if there is even anyone so discuss the match ups with.......any takers?

 

[Blanky]

I want to bring this back. I know its been a while but i would like to do discussions again. The only problem is if there is even anyone so discuss the match ups with.......any takers?

ehhh no point. i think it's just me and you at this point. instead of discussing match-ups, we could give each other advice on match-ups. because any difference in how we play our match-ups would lead to a discussion with no resolution! what are your fave match-ups bro?

 

[VGmasta]

I'm watching you Marios out there. I main Doc, but Mario has a bunch of similarities with Doc. So I'm always watching Mario to see if there is anything I could implement into Doc's game.

Keep fightin' guys.

 

[Scidadle]

Full hop Dair is so good.

 

[odinNJ]

Mario is underrated. Ill leave this here

 

[Frisbie]

im surprised that mario didnt go up on the tier list at all when mango was ****** everyone with mario. i guess everyone was like "oh, it's just mango"

 

[S l o X]

Yo Blanky, I play Mario. I'll give you tips @ Mass Madness!

 

[KirbyKaze]

Mario always has a bunch of mediocre, relevant tools. This is better than most other characters in his tier placing can say.

I think this game generally rewards extremes though. Being good at a handful of things and sucking at other stuff is probably better than being consistently subpar.

His f-smash is good though.

 

[Frisbie]

his ground moves are pretty good, and his aerials are good for comboing, but his KO power is kind of low. the thing is, mario really relies on combos, so in order to be good with him you have to be able to 0-death your opponent damn near everytime you hit him, and because he doesnt have a good aerial finisher like doc does, the job just becomes that much harder. and you have to have amazing spacing because of his short range. i do love his fsmash though

 

[condemned_soul]

ok somewhere down the line I lost myself in the competition that is melee. I only played this game to really keep myself out of trouble. i used to be a person to easily fall under peer pressure and I avoided it by playing melee. I wanted to always get better and knew that changing mains was the best option I have but thats not what I ever really wanted. I played this game because I enjoyed this game so i think im actually going to go back to mario......somebody has to to rep mario and its might as well be me

 

[MarioMariox2]

You used to be a Mario main, didn'tcha? But I see that weegee-vatar right there, lol.

 

[TheLake]

Im using mario more

hes so much fun

and i looove his stache :D

 

[KirbyKaze]

Mario's got everything he needs to win vs conventional combat.

Cheese sucks.

I think he's the quintessential mid-tier. He's playable and he's got winning potential but he's subpar compared to the good characters so his handler needs to be hella good. He's like the least fraudulent character ever.

 

[DerfMidWest]

Im using mario more

hes so much fun

and i looove his stache :D

we must do all the mario dittos next tournament we are at together >:3

 

[Dees]

mario *****

ill be putting in work with him

 

[DerfMidWest]

fight me dees.
with fists.

 

[mexicanmax227]

Hey guys any anti mario advice for a marth player. ive got the edge guarding down thats about it lol. Im aware of marios sh bair then hew free a few frames. THats about it. Thanks . Basically principal basics that a player needs to beat mario as marth. Thank you.

 

[j3ly]

Hey guys any anti mario advice for a marth player. ive got the edge guarding down thats about it lol. Im aware of marios sh bair then hew free a few frames. THats about it. Thanks . Basically principal basics that a player needs to beat mario as marth. Thank you.

You shouldn't have too much trouble, counter to edgeguard and never approach.

Marth can do an excellent job keeping mario out simply by doing a late fair infront of him (that is, not trying to hit mario - just making a wall infront of him), then reacting to marios reaction with jab/dtilt or early fair/nair autocancel. Repeat the process until you can get mario offstage with a tippered ftilt, then edgeguard with counter/fair.

Dont try to fsmash mario ever really - you'll get punished way more often than you hit him. Every time you miss, a good mario is going to waveshield then wavedash grab and you're in big big trouble.. everytime you want to fsmash, dtilt -> fair instead. It will improve your game in a big way.

 

[TheLake]

I suck at edgeguarding,

Whats the toughest hit to hit with as mario?

like to punish someone who just landed

is nair good enough?

or do I bair?

I feel like folks with good DI just dont get torn apart enough by any of those moves

or am I wrong?

 

[j3ly]

I suck at edgeguarding,

Whats the toughest hit to hit with as mario?

like to punish someone who just landed

is nair good enough?

or do I bair?

I feel like folks with good DI just dont get torn apart enough by any of those moves

or am I wrong?

It really depends on the situation. 60%-80% on shiek and marth you definatly want to dthrow -> pummel -> fsmash. With fox and falco, you want to uthrow -> wavedash fsmash between 60% and 90%. Ganon you want to dthrow -> uair -> combo, and peach.... well you normally want to hit her with a fair instead of a throw, because it's a better setup.

A little lower if they're near the edge, you might want to bair waveland -> something. You could scoop them up with uair -> nair, you could do a late nair -> uair/reverse bair... you could fair -> fsmash.

Kirbykaze gave some good general advice. Most characters want to grab as often as possible - I'd take that advice and follow it if you haven't already. Fair is better sometimes as the opponent can't DI behind you like they can on a throw, but fair isn't as safe and easy as grab.

I just know you do name searches so, HIYA KIRBY.

 

[DerfMidWest]

I like invincible ledgehop nairs and bairs.

 

[KirbyKaze]

On a character who has landing lag during recovery? Fair into a smash attack is pretty good. You could also just hit them before they get to the "landing lag during recovery" step because Mario can go pretty far and I feel people don't do this enough with him but it's kind of tricky so I can also appreciate the consistency of a lag punish.

Ledgedashing by someone into f-smash or d-smash is pretty solid too. Stand > grab > move is pretty solid and will generally lead to good things. If Sheik (or another character [Ganon in this case, I suppose]) is at d-throw CGable percent then I almost strictly recommend you do that just because it will give you the most bang for your buck and you will probably do a good chunk with regrabs and then put them back offstage to be ***** (assuming you don't fail the throw combo as a result of sucking).

Hi j3ly. SWF doesn't let you namesearch lately using the main search feature and I'm not checking character boards individually because of the minute wait between searches. Otherwise I would have been here sooner.

On Fox and Falco, while I agree that throw > move is good for punishing illusion lag I also think fair > move (likely d-smash, although other stuff sometimes works) and ledgedash into u-tilt / u-smash can also provide solid follows. Ledgedash > d-smash is also solid simply because it hits hard and comes out fast and not putting them in the air can sometimes be useful to keep them from gaining height. The different trajectories on the alternative launchers can sometimes be important for preventing them from hitting a platform to ensure you get an aerial. Or they can lead into a cleaner uair follow (or just more u-tilts prior to knocking them back off). Just some food for thought. Otherwise I generally agree with j3ly.

 

[R2_GP]

I suck at edgeguarding,

Whats the toughest hit to hit with as mario?

like to punish someone who just landed

is nair good enough?

or do I bair?

I feel like folks with good DI just dont get torn apart enough by any of those moves

or am I wrong?

vs fox/falco jump off the edge and nair back to the edge, this will egdeguard their side B more effectively

 

[j3ly]

vs fox/falco jump off the edge and nair back to the edge, this will egdeguard their side B more effectively

The cape is a more effective way to achieve this without risking getting spiked/jew combo'd. If your opponent is one of the few people who knows to tumble out of sideB cape, you need to ledgegrab and invincible nair the upB

 

[R2_GP]

The cape is a more effective way to achieve this without risking getting spiked/jew combo'd. If your opponent is one of the few people who knows to tumble out of sideB cape, you need to ledgegrab and invincible nair the upB

i'm agree with the cape thing, but sometimes you don't have that much time to legdegrab and nair back up (i'm talking about the side b fox's/falco's recovery, up bs should always be edgeguard with the cape or fsmash/dsmash), the nair has enough hitbox to hit that side b just in time without you get the exact spacing, for any other situation the cape works fine

 

[Puca Readabook]

Ok, IM a little salty after some vs peach. IM sweating against players who can't wavedash...

 

[KoopaTroopa895]

What do you know how to do?

 

[n0ne]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oS5ICIrEO1k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6l70P379LkQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2F7-UiaONg4

% Posted on Mario video archive as well-

 

[a rookie]

Dang n0ne, you seem a lot better than me :o
I got the perfect edgeguard for Falcon if he doesn't recover low =p

 

[mexicanmax227]

Hey melee guys whose the closest smash melee players closest to Clinton, MS? Im off for thanksgiving and want to practice my matchups. Im a peach main and can play marth, sheik, fox, falco, falcon, jiggs and some low tiers. Im trying to train specifically my peach and can offer yall my others as practice for yalls matchups. Let me know :D. MELEE ONLY LOL

 

[a rookie]

Sorry for responding really late. But you can post in the MS threads. This is more of Mario specific Plus, there's not too many of us left that's why we haven't responded xo

 

[doctorayegee]

What should I do and not do when playing a Marth?

 

[a rookie]

What should I do and not do when playing a Marth?

What I don't recommend:

-Fair approaching will get swatted. So be careful w/ those.
-Using your double jump UNLESS you're avoiding an up tilt spammer
-Misjudge their fsmash range (and get tippered/killed in the process)when you're falling to grab the edge
-Messing up on the edge, his dtilt/fsmash is easy prey for people that make mistakes


What I do recommend:

-Fireball approaches(to help you get in, full hop ones of course)
-Ftilt footsies/pokes(it goes further than your fsmash and safe on shield if you poke w/ the tip of your foot)
-Up air blind!(get him above you w/ a dthrow/uptilt and juggle him like a mad man)
-Fsmash his falling diagonal recoveries(fsmash tilted upward)
-Dthrow upsmash at low percents. At mid percents, replace upsmash w/ uptilt/upair to start combos
-Challenge him in the air w/ your dair(then convert into falling upair ---> uptilt --> etc)
-Rolling(a fixed amount, low amount since Marth's can't get too much off a grab vs Mario) when you're in the corner/danger

Hopefully this helps, all I can think of atm.

 

[doctorayegee]

What I don't recommend:

-Fair approaching will get swatted. So be careful w/ those.
-Using your double jump UNLESS you're avoiding an up tilt spammer
-Misjudge their fsmash range (and get tippered/killed in the process)when you're falling to grab the edge
-Messing up on the edge, his dtilt/fsmash is easy prey for people that make mistakes


What I do recommend:

-Fireball approaches(to help you get in, full hop ones of course)
-Ftilt footsies/pokes(it goes further than your fsmash and safe on shield if you poke w/ the tip of your foot)
-Up air blind!(get him above you w/ a dthrow/uptilt and juggle him like a mad man)
-Fsmash his falling diagonal recoveries(fsmash tilted upward)
-Dthrow upsmash at low percents. At mid percents, replace upsmash w/ uptilt/upair to start combos
-Challenge him in the air w/ your dair(then convert into falling upair ---> uptilt --> etc)
-Rolling(a fixed amount, low amount since Marth's can't get too much off a grab vs Mario) when you're in the corner/danger

Hopefully this helps, all I can think of atm.

I learned about fairs the hard way and fell prey to the tipper many times. How would you recommend to recover without getting ***** by his dtilt/fsmash?

 

[Britex]

I'm having a tough time trying to recover versus Marth. Not just getting on the ledge, but trying to gain back stage control. I feel like every option on the ledge gets me forward smashed. Is trying to bait it by leaving/regrabbing the ledge a good option?

 

[a rookie]

I learned about fairs the hard way and fell prey to the tipper many times. How would you recommend to recover without getting ***** by his dtilt/fsmash?

There's A LOT of different ways you can recover. One way to avoid dtilt/fsmash is to do an early sweet spot. I'll post an example later today.

I'm having a tough time trying to recover versus Marth. Not just getting on the ledge, but trying to gain back stage control. I feel like every option on the ledge gets me forward smashed. Is trying to bait it by leaving/regrabbing the ledge a good option?

Stage control vs Marth is TOUGH. Especially if you're in the corner/on the edge. My suggestion, if you can't get that control back, STAND YOUR GROUND and fight like a warrior and work w/ the space God gave you! Fireballs help you neutralize a swing(neutral A, ftilt, fsmash, etc.) that might give you enough time to get center stage. Roll if you have to. WD'ing oos isn't that great.

 

[KoopaTroopa895]

To add onto what rookie said whenever you up b at the stage always be prepared to tech a d-tilt/f-smash versus marth. It is more often than not the difference between the living or dying assuming you up b is even a little off.


My personal experience from the ledge is pretty awful as well. Wavedashing from the ledge is generally your best bet(especially if you can keep invincibility), but marth can easily bait that and more often than not your invincibility isn't going to last long enough to reach marth if they are careful about it. Ledgedash d-smash is also good, but other than that getting center stage back is imo one of the hardest things about marth(second to trying to fall back down against an amazing marth who just juggles you around the stage).