The man who just wants to fight strong guys - Son Goku warps into the fray with Kamehameha!

[Deleted member]

An Introduction​

Welcome to the thread!​

Son Goku is from one of the most popular and recognized series in the entire world known as Dragon Ball. The series is considered the most popular anime with the likes of Dragon Ball Z and Dragon Ball Super. Goku is a unique protagonist in that he doesn't go around patrolling like Superman and his main motive is selfish, to fight strong guys and along the way he ends up saving people as a side effect.

Why does he deserve to be in Super Smash Bros?​

A few reasons. The first reason is that Sakurai actually has no qualms adding a character that did not originate from a video game if he believes it'll be good for the series. He tried really hard to get James Bond from Golden Eye 007 for Melee, but due to copyrights he was unable to achieve it.

https://sourcegaming.info/2015/10/05/sakuraithirdparty/

In Melee, there was some consideration of including James Bond in order to represent the highly successful game Goldeneye. In addition, other Rare characters might have been considered to some degree. However due to copyright and other issues, these characters probably make it into the planning stages of Melee.

The second reason is that Akira Toriyama's artwork in Dragon Ball has inspired all forms of media, and that includes gaming. Artist Ken Sugimori, the person responsible for drawing Pokemon in the beloved artstyle we all know was inspired by Dragon Ball as you can tell by the style alone. Super Sonic is inspired directly from the Super Saiyan aspect from Dragon Ball Z, which Yuji Naka has also stated the Blue Sphere stage was inspired by King Kai's planet!

https://www.sonicstadium.org/2018/0...-special-stage-was-inspired-by-dragon-ball-z/

The third reason is that Goku has been on Nintendo systems ever since NES, and continued to be on Nintendo systems to this very day. Not merely with just cheap cash in games like Shrek or Spongebob, or other movie titles, but actually very high quality and timeless games that people consider great.

Legacy of Goku 2

Buu's Fury

Tenkaichi 3

Xenoverse 2

FighterZ (coming soon)

There's also plenty of games that were on the SNES, GBA, Gamecube, and Wii that people enjoyed. In some ways you can say Dragon Ball games has shaped some people's childhoods on a Nintendo system, and not just Nintendo systems, but also elsewhere like Playstation 2, Playstation Portable, Xbox 360, Playstation 3, and Playstation 4 for example.

The final reason is that, just like how Cloud represents Final Fantasy despite FF7 not actually appearing on a Nintendo console, Goku, who has been on Nintendo consoles throughout the decades can represent the Anime game genre being that he is the face of anime and manga and his games are a important part of gaming history, especially in the 3D fighter area.

Music​

This series is known for it's great music in terms of the games and well, the anime itself. For now I will focus on mainly video game tracks. (I will be avoiding Kenji Yamamoto plagiarized tracks)

Lost Courage - Dragon Ball Z Budokai Tenkaichi 2

Awake - Dragon Ball Z Budokai Tenkaichi 2

Nose to Tail - Dragon Ball Z Raging Blast 2

Gallant - Dragon Ball Z Raging Blast 2

West City - Dragon Ball FighterZ

Wasteland - Dragon Ball FighterZ

These are some really great ones, but if you have some you like feel free to share as I love the music from these games!

A Final Statement​

Are Goku's chances high? No, that is obvious. Right now his chances are being the huge success of Dragon Ball Super and the fact that Bandai-Namco, the same publisher working on Super Smash Bros who works on Dragon Ball games and outsources them is working on Super Smash Bros. That said, there are plenty of Goku fans out there and we want our boy in!

 

[Zawaz132]

Oof, what a sensitive topic...

I hear a lot of mention on who does or doesn't "belong" in Smash, but at the end of the day, what Sakurai and team says, goes.

I don't really want someone like Goku in Smash, but if it happens by some insane chance, it won't hurt me any. And as long as the character's playstyle isn't degenerate, I'll take anyone.

 

[Deleted member]

lol this scene.

 

[Pyra]

Not going to lie, I would be pretty happy about this.

People can fight me on that if they want, as long as the fight has a lot of yelling and takes several episodes.

 

[Deleted member]

Not going to lie, I would be pretty happy about this.

People can fight me on that if they want, as long as the fight has a lot of yelling and takes several episodes.

Lol perfect. Have his Final Smash be several minutes of charging up to Super Saiya-jin 3!

 

[Pyra]

Lol perfect. Have his Final Smash be several minutes of charging up to Super Saiya-jin 3!

One of the big reasons I want Goku despite not really caring for Anime characters making it in is because I want his neutral special to be charging up to a more powered up form, so I can hear Kirby yelling for 3/4ths of the match when he absorbs him.

And all the "Kirby reminds me of Buu" jokes the blog/trailer could make.

 

[KingZing]

From the same SourceGaming article you link:

From where I see it: point one is kind of vague and easily countered by the image above. Point two has no relevance to his actual chances of appearing (Peter Pan inspired the creation of Link, yet nobody supports him for Smash just for that reason lol), which leads me to the third point, even Peter Pan had licensed games on Nintendo consoles. So do the Simpsons, Doraemon and tons of other franchises outside of gaming like Shrek or Spoingebob as you say, yet do you honestly think they have any chances just because they do? Goku is exactly the same case, but naïve fans forget reason just because he's from a "fighting" franchise, and would fit in a "fighting" game.

And sorry, but even if they are good games, that has nothing to do with the case at hand. Goku is as "videogame character" as Doraemon, and in my honest opinion, no such anime/manga characters have a place in a game dedicated to celebrate gaming history. Other fighting games like J-Stars Victory VS specifically focused on reuniting those kind of characters a la Smash Bros are a whole different story though. KingZing out.

 

[Phaazoid]

Smash is a big crossover game, yes, but for video game characters. When I see Goku, I don't think videogame, I think anime. I think the success of dragon ball super actually hurts his chances, because if he's more associated with anime than games he'll never get in. I don't think we should have a slot for a representation of anime in a game about video game crossovers. At that point, why not other cartoons? Spongebob is wildly popular, and has been in videogames on Nintendo consoles.

 

[Deleted member]

From the same SourceGaming article you link:

From where I see it: point one is kind of vague and easily countered by the image above. Point two has no relevance to his actual chances of appearing (Peter Pan inspired the creation of Link, yet nobody supports him for Smash just for that reason lol), which leads me to the third point, even Peter Pan had licensed games on Nintendo consoles. So do the Simpsons, Doraemon and tons of other franchises outside of gaming like Shrek or Spoingebob as you say, yet do you honestly think they have any chances just because they do? Goku is exactly the same case, but naïve fans forget reason just because he's from a "fighting" franchise, and would fit in a "fighting" game.

And sorry, but even if they are good games, that has nothing to do with the case at hand. Goku is as "videogame character" as Doraemon, and in my honest opinion, no such anime/manga characters have a place in a game dedicated to celebrate gaming history. Other fighting games like J-Stars Victory VS specifically focused on reuniting those kind of characters a la Smash Bros are a whole different story though. KingZing out.

Sakurai has constantly gone back on things he's said or done since Brawl days, so that doesn't mean much to me. At any point he can easily change his mind like he's done before.

I disagree because this isn't merely Peter Pan, this is Dragon Ball, something that has shaped the landscape of media throughout the world. This isn't about one character design, this is about an artstyle entirely, about an influence in all kinds of media that has done far more.

You mention those games are on the system but miss the entire point of why it matters for Dragon Ball in particular. Dragon Ball is the face of anime, and the face of anime games and yes it DOES matter the quality of these games because they aren't cheap cash ins like the games you're listing and are considered games people should purchase and not merely games you buy cause the character is on the box.

Not only that, Dragon Ball has redefined 3D Arena fighters as well with their games being the flagship of that genre.

 

[KingZing]

Sakurai has constantly gone back on things he's said or done since Brawl days, so that doesn't mean much to me. At any point he can easily change his mind like he's done before.

I disagree because this isn't merely Peter Pan, this is Dragon Ball, something that has shaped the landscape of media throughout the world. This isn't about one character design, this is about an artstyle entirely, about an influence in all kinds of media that has done far more.

You mention those games are on the system but miss the entire point of why it matters for Dragon Ball in particular. Dragon Ball is the face of anime, and the face of anime games and yes it DOES matter the quality of these games because they aren't cheap cash ins like the games you're listing and are considered games people should purchase and not merely games you buy cause the character is on the box.

Not only that, Dragon Ball has redefined 3D Arena fighters as well with their games being the flagship of that genre.

I wasn't going to reply again in this thread as I know this is prickly territory, but I thought I should clarify that I have nothing against Dragon Ball, Goku or anime (or you personally!) for that matter. I believe my previous post was eloquent enough, but I'll emphasise again that Smash is just not the place for anime/manga characters, there are other games dedicated for that very purpose.

And remember, this is just an opinion, my opinion. Some will share it some will not, I just use logic for my reasoning. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[MacDaddyNook]

This is certainly an odd situation. On one hand, you have the whole "must originate from a video game" rule placed back in Brawl days that we have no reason to doubt is still in place, but on the other hand, I am certain that he had received massive support over the years and during the ballot that could saw him. We know that popularity does have a huge influence over who gets in this time around and let's not forget that Ridley was considered "impossible" as recent as the previous game(s). We already have Ridley and K. Rool, which were the two most supported characters for Smash, so to follow up that act, Sakurai does need to make the last revealed character the biggest yet.

We'll have to wait and see if Sakurai will break what is considered his biggest rule. As of now, I still have my doubts and I do believe he'll keep with exclusively gaming characters only, but if any time to bring in a "4th Party" character, now would be it.

Also, if (and that is a BIG if) he gets in, can we please get Lord Beerus and Whis as an AT?

 

[Zema]

Goku would be a weird addition. To be honest, I don't think he would be out of place in Smash at all, but he's not a videogame character, which makes it very, very hard for him to get into the game. At the same time... does it really matter? Goku has had plenty of games that have been on Nintendo consoles, and does a character's first appearance being in an Anime really define whether or not he or she is an anime character or a videogame character?

If Goku does make it in, I'd assume he'd be super, super, *super* unique in that regard. He is extremely popular, after all, and I don't think any other Anime character has the chance he does of getting into Smash. However, there is one enormous roadblock to his entry: the new Jump Force game. It would be a massive conflict of interest to have Goku in two separate fighting games, with the risk that game sales might be affected if Goku is in Smash. One of the biggest draws of Jump Force, after all, is anime characters crossing over and fighting characters from other series.

 

[MacDaddyNook]

Goku would be a weird addition. To be honest, I don't think he would be out of place in Smash at all, but he's not a videogame character, which makes it very, very hard for him to get into the game. At the same time... does it really matter? Goku has had plenty of games that have been on Nintendo consoles, and does a character's first appearance being in an Anime really define whether or not he or she is an anime character or a videogame character?

If Goku does make it in, I'd assume he'd be super, super, *super* unique in that regard. He is extremely popular, after all, and I don't think any other Anime character has the chance he does of getting into Smash. However, there is one enormous roadblock to his entry: the new Jump Force game. It would be a massive conflict of interest to have Goku in two separate fighting games, with the risk that game sales might be affected if Goku is in Smash. One of the biggest draws of Jump Force, after all, is anime characters crossing over and fighting characters from other series.

Nintendo has already done a Jump Smash-like crossover fighter with Jump Super Stars and Jump Ultimate Stars for the DS, so they could always have him reference that game.

Also, Ryu was included in Smash 4 despite headlining Street Fighter V and Marvel Vs Capcom Infinite around roughly the same time. I don't think it'd be much of a worry, honestly.

 

[BirthNote]

Goku would be the most OP character ever. Take Melee's Fox, Brawl's Metaknight, Smash 4's Diddy and Bayonetta's tier placements then multiply that by 20, then you'll have 1/10th of what Goku would be.

He will make every other Over-the-top character look absolutely tame, and you can't water him down because then he's not Goku. Strength off the charts, speed faster than Sonic by miles, able to fly so recoveries aren't an issue, can toss Bowser aside with one finger, absolute master at hand to hand combat and devastating at any range, can teleport anywhere, gets stronger in at least 5 thresholds at will, and durable enough to make a Giant Metal Giga Bowser scared to face him. Samus's Zero Laser is his de-powered Kamehameha. More projectile uses than Mega Man. You thought the S-tiers were hated before? People will beg to go back to the pre-Goku days, especially when everyone online picks him and only him and he dominates any tournament to the point of perma-ban.

 

[KEYLIME SSB]

I don’t think nintendo would take to this idea. He’s not an original video game character, and the animation style would be hard to replicate in game.

 

[Dixie Kong]

Plus, there are other fighting game series that should receive a fighter first, like Soul Calibur, Tekken, etc.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Right now we don't allow threads for non video game characters due to a direct quote from Sakurai. Apologies.

 

[Cyn]

I'm reopening this thread after discussion with the Ultimate Moderation Staff. Goku is one of those characters that has transcended its beginnings as a manga into anime then breaking the barrier into gaming. DB has a long history in gaming dating back to the 80s. So even though the franchise does not have its beginnings in the video game medium, it still has many appearances that date back to the decade of Mario's first popular appearances. These games may not have always been the best, but it is telling that the games still have new iterations to this day. This is the reason Goku is being allowed and not characters like Shrek, Cool Spot, or E.T., who, though popular, have not made lasting continuing contributions to the gaming world.

For these reasons I am reopening this thread. Please keep discussion civil.

 

[Dixie Kong]

Woah. Anyway, if Goku actually made it in, I would hope Naruto and Erin Yeager also make it in! Imagine an Attack on Titan stage!

 

[MainJPW]

He will make every other Over-the-top character look absolutely tame, and you can't water him down because then he's not Goku. Strength off the charts, speed faster than Sonic by miles, able to fly so recoveries aren't an issue, can toss Bowser aside with one finger, absolute master at hand to hand combat and devastating at any range, can teleport anywhere, gets stronger in at least 5 thresholds at will, and durable enough to make a Giant Metal Giga Bowser scared to face him. Samus's Zero Laser is his de-powered Kamehameha. More projectile uses than Mega Man. You thought the S-tiers were hated before? People will beg to go back to the pre-Goku days, especially when everyone online picks him and only him and he dominates any tournament to the point of perma-ban.

I don't really get this comment, many characters in Smash are watered down. He's not the only character that can canonically fly or teleport so he'd be watered down either way.

 

[Ridrool64]

While I wouldn't want Goku that much because of what his inclusion would mean, isn't R.O.B not a video game character? He's a peripheral that exists in real life. Only to be used with video games, yes, but he's not from one. So I don't know how much water that argument holds, and do think that Goku has a vaguely existent chance now.

And SpongeBob has at least four games that are actually really good (all of them available on Nintendo consoles), but I won't deny that a good chunk of them do stink. Nevertheless, I can be put as a neutral party. I won't actually be mad, just shocked if Goku gets into Smash Bros. I might be a little upset that a non-video game character beat out any of my most wanted (if by some miracle all of them get in, then I could welcome even Goku with welcome arms.)

I would have expected his Final Smash to be a Super Saiyan/Great Ape transformation, but now I imagine the Spirit Bomb will do the trick. I see a neutral special Kamehameha, spot dodge Instant Transmission, Flying Nimbus up special (if he could fly it'd be broken, but he could just have two-three jumps in the air) and a Krillin Assist Trophy where Krillin launches Destructo Disks everywhere. I can't believe I just posted how I see his moveset going by.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Do the poeple who want him just not play Dragon Ball FighterZ? I just couldn't take Goku seriously if he can get knocked off a ledge and die, unless he is from before the Namekian Saga.

 

[Oddball]

I fully support Gokuu for Smash

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Honestly he'd be a blast to play as. He's not my favorite DB character, but there's so much moveset potential he could have. Whether it's temporary power-ups, beam spam, or or simply teleporting options.

I would hope he's have colors that do a good job at referencing various major characters. Though I'm not sure if they'd just do Saiyan related ones or some others. Perfect Cell is my favorite DB character, but I wouldn't expect a direct reference to him. Maybe something closer to Piccolo's clothing instead for a Green costume?

 

[GoodGrief741]

I don’t think he should be in, nor do I think this thread should remain open. This will open the floodgates for anyone to think they can make a thread for whoever they want.

Ah well, at least Goku’s voice actor came out to say he’s not in Smash. That should shut people up for now.

 

[Sean Wheeler]

The mods are finally allowing this thread? Finally. I was getting mad at the Sora thread because Sora would put Disney cameos in the game, the Ridley thread (before Ridley got confirmed) supported a character that Sakurai stated couldn't be in Smash, though now that Ridley's playable in Ultimate, that puts Sakurai's previous statements to question, especially when he said the same about Pac-Man and Villager. The Yuyuki Goku thread was practically there to troll DBZ fans. And Smash already has an anime represented: Pokémon. Yes, the Pokémon games came first, but the anime introduced some things like Pokémon saying their names. And Lucario appeared in a movie two years before Diamond and Pearl, and ROB was a toy, breaking the whole rule about debuting in a game. So I totally support this thread. Sakurai has been breaking rules about who could be in Smash. Ryu's introduction broke the rule of one character per third-party company. Richter broke the rule about one character per third-party franchise. Snake outright introduced third-party characters. James Bond was planned for Melee. Anyone can be in Smash. Anyone can be in Smash. Oh and you can't trust the statement about Sean Schemmel not being in Smash when he's in fact playing Lucario in Smash. Vegeta is who I envision as the Assist Trophy. And the stage... um... did Sakurai say there'd be only 103 total stages? Darn, I can't speculate stages when they've already spoiled what stages are in. Goku's symbol could be the four-star Dragon Ball. His Up Special can be Instant Transmission. His neutral Special could be the Kamehameha. His Down Special can be Kiao Ken. His Final Smash can be the Spirit Bomb. He can have a Power Meter that turns him Super Saiyan when full. Or his Super Saiyan forms could be alternate costumes.

 

[MainJPW]

Ah well, at least Goku’s voice actor came out to say he’s not in Smash. That should shut people up for now.

He could just be voiced in Japanese only like Cloud LMAO.

 

[Sean Wheeler]

And Sean Schemmel is voicing Lucario, so Goku's voice actor would have to be in Smash Ultimate anyway, so his statement wasn't completely true.

 

[Loz18-Echo]

Why does this thread exist? Like c'mon guys really?

 

[Vulgun]

So a thread like this is finally open. I might as well put my own thought out there as to what I think, and it's that I would be in favor of allowing Goku in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate's roster as its sole non-video game character. He's a very iconic character that people have been wanting for so long now, and despite his status as a character who originated from a manga, I don't think that it should truly sway the opinion of people for his inclusion, due to the fact that it shouldn't matter if he did originate from a game or not. He's someone that many fans of Smash and Dragon Ball have wanted for so many years, and seems like the likeliest manga-originated character.

If you just judge Goku on himself and himself alone, you see a character that can very easily be translated into the Smash Bros. series since his own series is revolved around fighting. Being a martial artist with immense skill, Goku has this extremely enormous pool of moves that the developers could pull from and make a playstyle out of. This is especially evident in the fact that we have three different playstyles of Goku in Dragon Ball FighterZ that they could make a moveset from, give or take some frame data and/or power. He would be a very interesting character to play with whatever playstyle he has, and I'd personally enjoy playing as him for months on end if he's ever included.

In regards to his power or speed, or the fact some people will think he will be some blatantly overpowered mess, that's never going to happen. Yes, Goku is a very powerful character for his series, but there's not a chance at all that Goku would ever be made to be completely overpowering in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. The developers are not fools like some of you think they are, they would probably think on what to and what not to do when handling Goku, should he ever be put into Ultimate. Give the developers and balancing team some faith this time around. Yes, we've gotten stinkers before, but Goku will probably not be remotely close to one of them.

Finally, I'd like to go over his potential moveset, specifically his specials. I'll go with the safest options and say that his Neutral Special could be Kamehameha, Side Special could be Ki Blasts, Up Special could be Flight and Down Special could be Instant Transmission as a counterattack or movement option, similar to Dimensional Cape. Something along these lines could be what I would predict as his special attacks, as they would make sense. It could promote offensive play with mindgame and combo setup potential, as well as allow for critical thinking on what to do to your opponent next.

In the end, I'd be hype for seeing Goku. But I wouldn't be disappointed if he didn't appear in the game.

 

[Gerrothorax]

Can't wait to make my Spongebob support thread.

 

[MainJPW]

Can't wait to make my Spongebob support thread.

Did you not read Cyndane’s comment?

 

[Gerrothorax]

Did you not read Cyndane’s comment?

I did and its a load of ****. Why is this ONE character exempt from a rule that everyone else has to follow? Either allow us to make threads on other non-video game characters or close this one.

 

[Loz18-Echo]

I don't what to be a asshat but he's never getting in and if you think so then you can keep dreaming if you like but it won't work

 

[Skyblade12]

I did and its a load of ****. Why is this ONE character exempt from a rule that everyone else has to follow? Either allow us to make threads on other non-video game characters or close this one.

Agreed. Just because the moderators think the rules don't apply doesn't mean that ANYTHING has indicated that Sakurai has changed his mind. He even introduced Smash Ultimate with the "What is Smash? A game where famous GAMING characters Smash each other offscreen" comment. Goku is not a gaming character. Still.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Get back on-topic. If you aren't interested in it having a thread, don't post. You are free to make a proper appeal of why it should not, but this isn't the place for it. There are things like report buttons, or you can use forum support.

 

[Fane]

Sakurai does need to make the last revealed character the biggest yet.

He absolutely does not.

Unless you think Shulk was bigger than Mega Man or Pac-Man.

 

[AwesomeCauliflower68]

I contest the existence of this thread. If a character like Bat-Man would have his thread closed with these new rules Goku shouldn't stand a chance.

 

[StormC]

"Goku is a special case. Batman or other Earth’s Mightiest Heroes are not."

Can I make a Vegeta thread then?

 

[Loz18-Echo]

Well back to Goku here's my two cents. He's the most overrated character ever suggested for smash and has no chance in ever making into a roster Dedicated into celebrating Nintendo and gaming icons.

but tell me why does he deserve to be in smash pls tell me