Q&A The 'Mains' Advice Thread

[Dream Cancel]

So I checked out Ranai upon your suggestion (specifically the match vs. ZeRo @ Genesis) and holy crap I've been absolutely astounded as to what he can do. I will most likely be keeping Kirby because I really love the little guy, and out of the strange, personal reason of already having two sword characters in the form of Shulk/ Cloud, I'll put Ike on the back-burner. But I think I'm willing to give Villager a shot!

Only thing I'm concerned about Villager at the moment is Fox; the guy already gives Shulk trouble, and I imagine his reflector can ruin Villager's day. But I guess that's something to bring to the players on the boards.

Thanks so much for your help!

Watch Ranai vs. Xzax at Genesis 3. That should help.

 

[DarkAuraful]

Hey guys. I've been wanting to go back to learning Toon Link more seriously, an it's been a while since I've played him. Though I just mostly mess around with him. Can anyone tell me what I need to know with Toon Link?

 

[C0rvus]

Bomb confirms are his bread and butter in this game. Bomb -> forward and bomb -> up air, etc. are the big ones. They rack damage, they kill. Bombs are love, bombs are life. Up tilt is an all-purpose combo starter at low percent, but don't fish for it.
Toon Link is all about space control and projectile zoning. Use the boomerang to keep the opponent from taking space. SH autocancel nair and RAR back air are good defensive spacing tools, and Toon Link's good mobility and decent aerials, as well as bomb follow-ups and mediocre ground moves generally make him more potent in the air.
Back throw kills, but his grab is pretty bad and his other throws really don't do much, so playing around smart shielding is a challenge. Bomb feints and regrabs and patient play help.
This is just a general overview. For more in depth info, head to the Toon Link boards, watch some Zan, some Hyuga, some Hayato, etc.

 

[Zarduma]

So, as you can probably tell, I main Falcon. BUT, I recently have reached what I can only guess is a skill cap with him. I mean, I still am doing great when I play with him, but I don't feel like I'm improving anymore. The only thing I could see myself on working on is perfecting my KNEE OF JUSTICE game, but aside from that, I've got him down. Anyways, I also use, Yoshi, Roy, and a little Corrin. But, I play with a group of friends and I've hit a roadblock against my friends Mario. We have always been neck n' neck with each other but now, I'm starting to falter. Needless to say it's driving me crazy. I still beat him, but it's a 4:6. I'm thinking of adding a new main, but I'm not sure who to go for. I really just need a solid pocket character I can count on to beat people I lose to while using Falcon. I'm thinking of Ryu, ZSS, Sheik, Fox, or Maybe just Corrin. Any suggestions on what to pursue? Also, I do tournaments sometimes too, so I have to think competitively. Thanks :D

 

[C0rvus]

Corrin does well against Mario. Maybe focus on improving your current roster. I think 4 characters is enough to work with.

 

[LancerStaff]

Hey I'm a Toon Link main that is having trouble with Rosalina, Game and Watch, and partially Pikachu. I need a secondary that can help me with these matchups. Any thoughts?

Going to recommend the Pits again. Even without Electroshock they're strong picks against Rosalina because of their plethora of moves that kill Luma. G&W I'm less sure about but Pikachu probably losses to Pit because of his disjointed range.

 

[Lamuh]

I'm looking for other people to learn (surprise surprise). My three typical characters are Ike (main), Greninja and Shulk. I'm going to my first tournament in a few weeks and I would like to learn somebody that doesn't play like Ike whatsoever that covers the matchups that I'm poor at (camping ranged characters).

My playstyle is (usually) somewhat defensive, reactionary/reading and punish-based. I haven't tried too many other people that I've enjoyed (I've played almost everybody but the people that I got close to considering dedicating time to are ZSS, Sonic, Lucina, Dark Pit, and Robin). So! I'm looking for suggestions on who to learn to cover matchups and help me learn more aspects of the game.

 

[C0rvus]

Of those characters, Zero Suit Samus and Sonic stand out to me. They are very different from Ike, and have few issues getting in on campy characters. I would hone in on them for a while and see if they fit the bill.

 

[Lamuh]

I guess my only problem with Sonic was that I couldn't figure out how to safely approach somebody. It seemed too easy to simply shield the spin and avoid the harass, leaving me in a vulnerable spot. Clearly it's an L2P issue on my end.

 

[C0rvus]

Watch some high level Sonic matches to get an idea. I don't think you're meant to approach with Spin Dash though. It seems like more of a punishing tool to me. Sonic may be a decent fit because of how his speed allows him to be very defensive and reactionary.

 

[Lamuh]

Is that right? I'll go ahead and watch more videos. Thanks!

 

[Ecchin]

Hi there, i posted a few months ago but i still struggling with the main thing. Since the beginning of this year i've been playing Melee in a more serious way, so i picked Sheik because i love his speed and mostly the tech chasing i can do with her. But when i play Sm4sh that's not the case, i don't like play Sheik, and this months i've played Marth, but i don't know if it's me or it's the game' mechanics that pull me out, and i don't know what to do right now, probably i'll leave the game for a while if I don't get a main...

PD: i go to tourneys and i mostly play random characters lol

 

[Nexin]

Hi there, i posted a few months ago but i still struggling with the main thing. Since the beginning of this year i've been playing Melee in a more serious way, so i picked Sheik because i love his speed and mostly the tech chasing i can do with her. But when i play Sm4sh that's not the case, i don't like play Sheik, and this months i've played Marth, but i don't know if it's me or it's the game' mechanics that pull me out, and i don't know what to do right now, probably i'll leave the game for a while if I don't get a main...

PD: i go to tourneys and i mostly play random characters lol

The characters from Melee that are in this game control very differently (where Sheik is a grappler with very strong aerials in Melee, she is more of a weak but safe speedster in here). If you try to use your experience with characters in one game to play them in another, you'll likely end up lost.

Anyways, could you tell me what about Melee Sheik made you enjoy playing her so much? If I could get an idea about what kind of characters you enjoy playing, then I can narrow down the list of characters that you may want to play.

Edit: I just reread your post. Have you tried Roy out at all? He isn't the most tech chase oriented character in the game, but he is very mobile and gets good damage off of grabs. I'm not 100% sure if you'll actually be interested in this character, and if not, I'll continue to help you out.

 

[C0rvus]

Characters with strong tech chasing that come to mind are:
sour dash attack always trips and down throw sets up tech chases. Bike covers multiple getup options, etc.
down throw sets up a tech chase, his speed lets him capitalize.
his bread and butter paralyzer punish is a tech chase (DFS>footstool>dair>Dragon Lunge), his specials cover multiple tech options.

 

[Ecchin]

The characters from Melee that are in this game control very differently (where Sheik is a grappler with very strong aerials in Melee, she is more of a weak but safe speedster in here). If you try to use your experience with characters in one game to play them in another, you'll likely end up lost.

Anyways, could you tell me what about Melee Sheik made you enjoy playing her so much? If I could get an idea about what kind of characters you enjoy playing, then I can narrow down the list of characters that you may want to play.

Edit: I just reread your post. Have you tried Roy out at all? He isn't the most tech chase oriented character in the game, but he is very mobile and gets good damage off of grabs. I'm not 100% sure if you'll actually be interested in this character, and if not, I'll continue to help you out.

Welp i tried Roy when he came out and i like it, but i'm very inconsistent with him because the bad MUs he has (combo food) and im trying to play last week and this week with him n well, i hope i can be better to maste t3h ph1r3 haha

Characters with strong tech chasing that come to mind are:
sour dash attack always trips and down throw sets up tech chases. Bike covers multiple getup options, etc.
down throw sets up a tech chase, his speed lets him capitalize.
his bread and butter paralyzer punish is a tech chase (DFS>footstool>dair>Dragon Lunge), his specials cover multiple tech options.

If i play one of those characters probably will be Sonic

 

[Wintermelon43]

So I just have some matchup questions basicially here. I pretty need a character as a secondary for me. The rules for it is:

• Can't be(Since I refuse to pick up those top tiers)(Screws up my playstyle, so I can't use anyone else the rest for a while)(Already tried them, and they don't work for the matchup requirements below) or (Not fun enough for me to try to learn how to use them, is fun enough though) so no
• Needs to have an advantage aganist (If this doesn't exist, go by priority; I ordered them by most to least important)
• Going even or better aganist would be nice too, but isn't nesciraly
• I main and secondary, so don't mention them

THE POCKETS IN MY SIGNATURE CAN BE COUNTED AS A SECONDARY SUGGESTION

 

[KniteBlargh]

Wintermelon43 It's hard coming up with someone you haven't already mentioned, but perhaps you could try Mario or Fox? I believe they have the advantage against Toon Link, but not so sure about Cloud and Corrin... Even if they're 50:50, you should at least have a better chance in general. As far as your pocket characters go, I'd probably recommend either Pikachu or Villager. All of them can keep up a good amount of pressure (Villager's not as fast as the others, but the Lloyd rockets are key here), they deal well with projectiles, and have great edge-guarding potential which can be especially useful for Cloud and Corrin.

Edit: I was focusing so hard on the characters you didn't want mentioned, it wasn't till Lavani recommended Cloud that I realized you didn't actually exclude him. Cloud would be another good choice, I agree.

 

[Lavani]

So I just have some matchup questions basicially here. I pretty need a character as a secondary for me. The rules for it is:

• Can't be(Since I refuse to pick up those top tiers)(Screws up my playstyle, so I can't use anyone else the rest for a while)(Already tried them, and they don't work for the matchup requirements below) or (Not fun enough for me to try to learn how to use them, is fun enough though) so no
• Needs to have an advantage aganist (If this doesn't exist, go by priority; I ordered them by most to least important)
• Going even or better aganist would be nice too, but isn't nesciraly
• I main and secondary, so don't mention them

THE POCKETS IN MY SIGNATURE CAN BE COUNTED AS A SECONDARY SUGGESTION

or maybe probably fit your criteria the best.

(I would've mentioned but...)

 

[Doodoodaadoo1]

Hello, I'm currently a main, looking for someone else. I mained for the longest time but I feel like he doesn't suit me. I don't care if the character has a bad recovery, I just need fast damaging combos AND an easy kill move. Please give me advice for a character other than these characters.


Exclusion:

 

[KniteBlargh]

Doodoodaadoo1 Not sure if you'd consider this to be too dull since you already main Dr. Mario, but have you considered ? He certainly fits your description; has fast combos that pump up the damage quickly and his smash attacks, especially his up smash, are really great kill moves. Sometimes you can push people away from the ledge with FLUDD as they try to recover. He also has kill combos like down throw to fair at the edge of the stage (if your opponent uses the wrong DI and you read their DI correctly).

Otherwise I'd probably say . He's fast, has decent damage building combos, and limit break gives you several easy kill options (while there are a few ways to confirm, they do at times require good reads as well, but hey, if they hit, they're stupidly good).

 

[Dream Cancel]

Hello, I'm currently a main, looking for someone else. I mained for the longest time but I feel like he doesn't suit me. I don't care if the character has a bad recovery, I just need fast damaging combos AND an easy kill move. Please give me advice for a character other than these characters.


Exclusion:

Sounds like Ness, Mario, Ryu or DK to me. They have good power and their grabs function as easy combo and kill options. (except Ryu, but he has Shoryuken so yeah lol) Mario will definitely feel the most comfortable frim the start and transitioning to him would be your most natural choice.

Outside of those four characters, their are multiple others will either good combos or easy kill moves, but they don't necessarily have both. Examples are Diddy Kong (banana confirms though), Luigi, Captain Falcon, R.O.B., Toon Link, etc. I could go on. Many Mid-tiers and up have good combos, and even lower tiers like Kirby and Falco do as well. Most characters are going to struggle with kill confirms. (Pros make it look so easy)

Also, be sure to play to the strengths of your fundamentals and your character. If you're strong with aerial tactics, then find a character with corresponding strengths in their moveset.

Hope this helps and good luck!

 

[Doodoodaadoo1]

Sounds like Ness, Mario, Ryu or DK to me. They have good power and their grabs function as easy combo and kill options. (except Ryu, but he has Shoryuken so yeah lol) Mario will definitely feel the most comfortable frim the start and transitioning to him would be your most natural choice.

Outside of those four characters, their are multiple others will either good combos or easy kill moves, but they don't necessarily have both. Examples are Diddy Kong (banana confirms though), Luigi, Captain Falcon, R.O.B., Toon Link, etc. I could go on. Many Mid-tiers and up have good combos, and even lower tiers like Kirby and Falco do as well. Most characters are going to struggle with kill confirms. (Pros make it look so easy)

Also, be sure to play to the strengths of your fundamentals and your character. If you're strong with aerial tactics, then find a character with corresponding strengths in their moveset.

Hope this helps and good luck!

Thanks, I'll Try DK, R.O.B. and Falco (all passed mains). I'll likely try Falco the most

 

[Doodoodaadoo1]

Doodoodaadoo1 Not sure if you'd consider this to be too dull since you already main Dr. Mario, but have you considered ? He certainly fits your description; has fast combos that pump up the damage quickly and his smash attacks, especially his up smash, are really great kill moves. Sometimes you can push people away from the ledge with FLUDD as they try to recover. He also has kill combos like down throw to fair at the edge of the stage (if your opponent uses the wrong DI and you read their DI correctly).

Otherwise I'd probably say . He's fast, has decent damage building combos, and limit break gives you several easy kill options (while there are a few ways to confirm, they do at times require good reads as well, but hey, if they hit, they're stupidly good).

Nice, I've been looking at cloud for a while, he seems like a hard hitter with some range, I'd love to try him out. (I tried Mario but the only true combo I could do on for glory was down throw and up tilt into oblivion)

 

[The Legendary DJXYZ]

Fast, damaging combos and an easy KO move. You're fine with , but , , and have the same property. They all have chains that finish with a very strong KO move (which is the main reason they became "top tiers" in the first place). You don't need to switch from Dr. though, he has the same thing with forward smash or jump punch as the finisher.

 

[ShirouKen]

Hey guys, I've started getting into competitive smash a few months ago with my current main . Recently I've taken notice in my play style, which is "bait & punish", reacting to their movement, conditioning, reading my opponent so I know when to go in. My struggles against , ,and campy s, mixed in with Fox's lack of edgeguarding, and opponents living to abnormally high percentages has sent me on tilt. Watching more aggressive Foxes in my region and youtube and how they tend to do better really made me feel like i'm playing the wrong character. For the past week or so I've been thinking about picking up another character or maybe I'm looking for a secondary, but can't decide which character(s) suit me. Thanks in advance!

 

[C0rvus]

Bait and punish/reactionary characters might be or because they move so quickly. is always an option since she can do pretty much whatever you need. Similarly, is good at making the opponent play to his pace because of Limit. You're better off practicing and learning the Sheik matchup with your main. A secondary really won't help you. That said, if you're looking to replace your main, I would start with these guys and maybe as well.

 

[The Legendary DJXYZ]

The ultimate bait and punish character... is . 25 damage frame 5 punish, projectiles, and combos. The only dificulty is the crazy amount of tech skill required to pull off his recoveries (the reason I stopped playing him).

 

[LarryAlberto]

Hello, I'm still pretty new both to the competitive scene and these boards but I'm looking for a secondary to cover some bad matchups. I main . Some matchups I struggle in are characters with more range than me (, ), characters that are faster than me (have better frame data/can rush me down) (, , ), and campier characters (, ). Even though I have yet to play a competent I've heard that it is terrible for , so that's another problem matchup. I'd also like like it if they could beat as I hate the ditto (though since is low tier this shouldn't be a problem).

I dont know if this will help but some reasons I like are because of his mechakoopa shenanigans and his surprising combo ability. I also like him as a character. Thanks for taking the time to read/consider my post!

 

[Ultimastrike]

Hey. I'm having a difficult time deciding on a main, and I don't know who to main. I have knowledge on and but don't do great with much else. Maybe but idk. If I knew my play style it'd be easier to figure out.

 

[The Legendary DJXYZ]

Outranging some of these characters is difficult. Maybe unpredictability or defense can help you? Try out or , see if you can handle them.

 

[Ultimastrike]

Outranging some of these characters is difficult. Maybe unpredictability or defense can help you? Try out or , see if you can handle them.

I've tried WFT, and technically she's just...weird. Wario on the other hand I seem to have a handle on, but that's because he's patience I think. He doesn't seem to fit me though since I know for a fact he will lose to practically any disjoint, but upside is he can eat nearly anything(except explosives; but it's funny when he blows up opponents with them after eating).

 

[AJb1205]

Who is a good secondary for Ness? I primarily have problems with which is like, his worst matchup. And also characters that can outrange him on stage like. Also recovering can also sometimes be tricky with characters that can gimp me. Any thoughts? (Cloud also has that gimping issue. Along with killing offstage and coming back without limit)

 

[C0rvus]

Your signature says you already play Cloud. Perfecto, he beats Rosalina. You're good to go. I don't see the need to have an entire pocket character to prevent yourself from getting gimped. You ought to learn your options offstage and use them intelligently. If you really want a pocket character for this, are all very difficult if not outright impossible to gimp.

 

[KniteBlargh]

Ultimastrike I think DJXYZ was responding to Larry's comment above yours.
It's rather difficult to recommend a main for you if you don't know which playstyle you enjoy most. Honestly, even though it takes time, I'd recommend this excellent suggestion from @High Entia to figure out which characters you gravitate toward, because, correct me if I'm wrong, it doesn't sound like you're satisfied playing the characters you currently have knowledge on? Anyway, give it a shot if you're willing; should at least narrow the field a bit.
High Entia's Suggestion

 

[Ultimastrike]

Your signature says you already play Cloud. Perfecto, he beats Rosalina. You're good to go. I don't see the need to have an entire pocket character to prevent yourself from getting gimped. You ought to learn your options offstage and use them intelligently. If you really want a pocket character for this, are all very difficult if not outright impossible to gimp.

Cloud's in my signature because I use him every now and again. So, you can't really say I main him if I haven't put work in on him. Honestly, his stuff is still weird to me so I'm not sure where to put him.

 

[homiedixon]

I started playing Smash 4 with Rosalina as my main for a few months, but I had a mindset of "dont play a top tier if you want to relax and have fun". After learning that Rosa was easily top 3, I switched to Pikachu since Eventhubs had him listed around 20th for a long time.

I dropped that "top tiers are no fun" thought by now, you can make any character fun. As of right now I pretty much only use Pikachu, but I've been doing better with Kirby. This might be because I play only online, even for tournaments, but Im feeling less and less confident about Pikachu. (sorry for all the exposition)

I doubt I'll bring Kirby to any tournaments, so I rely on just Pikachu. I'm having trouble with characters that just have bigger hitboxes than Pika, I got destroyed by a Cloud spamming N-airs because QA cant go through it for example. Would it be a bad idea to dual main Pikachu/Rosalina, because they're both characters that can be difficult to master?

 

[C0rvus]

If you think you can handle it. However, do be warned that Rosalina gets beaten by Cloud. Pretty strongly in my experience. You can't really counterpick Cloud at the moment, so stick it out and try your best with Pikachu. Maybe head over to the Pikachu boards and ask some more experienced players what they think about the matchup. If it's worse than with Rosa, try it with Rosa.

If you want a character to deal with swords, why not try a sword character yourself? Cloud, Corrin, Ike, and Meta Knight are among the better ones. The Links, Robin, Shulk, Marth and Friends are also there to try.

For what it's worth, I think everyone is struggling against Cloud at the moment.

 

[ᑎᕮᖇO]

Hey guys I'm looking for a character with good neutral, ko power, decent combo game

Thank you
Nero

 

[C0rvus]

dere u go
Cracklin_Oats

 

[The Legendary DJXYZ]

Yo, get ready, cuz the top tier done got nerf'd.
If you wanted your top tier and , it ain't happening, as their crazy KO moves got nerfed (except for Corrin's up air, that's still a thing.)