The Luigi Discussion Thread - People Actually Play This Character?

[Broasty]

What kinds of jams do you guys like to listen to while swagging it up with Luigi? I'm all about really good production rap artists like B.o.b. CES Cru, and Tech N9ne!

http://youtu.be/3L-WaC829Jc
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLeKoILF7azzAxSBZ2HgrEbdkrml28ns7t
http://youtu.be/1zj85UPA3W8

 

[Boomer3d]

I listen to all of the salty highlight music.

 

[DBSammy]

EDM and Hip Hop for myself mostly. A couple of artists I can think of are Madeon, The Roots, Hudson Mohawke, Rustie, Kendrick Lamar.

 

[Broasty]

EDM and Hip Hop for myself mostly. A couple of artists I can think of are Madeon, The Roots, Hudson Mohawke, Rustie, Kendrick Lamar.

Kendrick makes some dope music.

 

[Phan7om]

Is there a best use for fireballs in the ditto?

 

[Broasty]

Is there a best use for fireballs in the ditto?

Yeah, basically if your opponent plays defensive, you can punish them for not approaching by throwing fireballs out. Also, you can use it to stop your opponent if they recover high (Wave Landing will let you get in close for a proper punish).

 

[Deleted member]

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[Xykness]

I have a Spotify playlist that I listen to on the way to tournaments, but I typically prefer to hear the game sounds when I am actually playing. Especially that d-tilt

 

[Broasty]

I listen to the sounds of Luigi styling on his enemies. Like music to my ears!

My home build uses Melee sounds I love so much...so I'm kinda outta place with Brawl's "taps" as opposed to "thuds" lol. Plus I love hearing "YAH" and "YEEPIE" spammed constantly...just like my taunt cancels I spam rofl.

 

[otek]

Yea I play Luigi as well, he's my main and in my opinion reaaaally underrated

(gathering posts so i can post video link in the video thread)

 

[OnFullTilt]

Luigi 3.5 patch notes are out. Looks like he remained almost the exact same but with a few minor changes that could have some big implications.

Luigi Changelist


Aerials
- Up Aerial attack collisions are now active for 5 frames instead of 3
- Forward Aerial and Down Air attack now have normal hitlag

Specials
-Neutral Special(Fireball)
--Now uses Green Fire Element
-Up special(Super Jump Punch)
--Fire Jump Punch uses Green Fire Element
--Landing lag is now 40 frames instead of 45
-Down Special(Luigi Cyclone)
--Aerial version has 5 more frames of endlag
--Air Cyclone collisions now match ground Cyclone collisions
-Side Special(Green Missle)
--Instant brake effect fixed
--Misfire Check no longer depends on Shield input during attacking part of the move
--Misfire is now checked during Startup and Charge while he is flashing

and gives visual and audible notifications
--Fixed Green flashing loop not working after reaching full charge and
allows white flashing from full charge to occur if canceled during that time

Others
-Dash Attack
--More damaging
--Final collision now has 3 Damage, 3 Shield Damage, 48 BKB, 96 KBG, and is now non reversible
-Forward item throws and all swings of battering items no longer halt horizontal momentum
-Luigi now has unique green fire element
-Side Taunt now has Luigi turn towards the camera when facing left
-Down Taunt spike angle is now 281



Could anyone with 3.5 tell me what exactly the green missile changes are? Is it now harder to store again or something?

 

[Cubelarooso]

I HATE the slime effect. PLEASE remove it. There's so much better stuff that could be done with a new effect. Like making an Ice effect that's purely cosmetic, so PK Freeze/Ice Missiles don't look so weird on hit, and playing Ice Climbers or Ice Samus would feel more like it should. Or a green bubbly "Poison" (visual, not damage-over-time) effect so white pikmin don't rely on that ambiguous purple stuff, and which could also be used on Ivysaur and Wario Waft.
Uair change is strange. Like, why?
Landing lag makes sense, I like it.
Honestly never noticed the Fair/Dair hitlag was different. Kinda weird that it was, actually.
Cyclone change is a major nerf from how it was in Melee, where it allowed a way through Shiek's Uair. That's not a part of Cyclone that needed evaluation, and I hope they re-Melee it.
The Misfire change just makes it apparent to both players when you store it. As in, when exactly you store it, not that you have one stored.
They also fixed how slow edgecancelling GM was. I honestly though that was an intentional decision related to the addition of Misfire farming.
I don't like the Dash Attack change. It's supposed to be bad, making it safer will just encourage poor play. It's neither buff nor nerf, just a stain on his immaculate design.
He can still Wavescuttle, still one direction.
They failed to mention Side Taunt can now be held. Was never a fan of Sakurai pasting that onto Luigi, but I'm sure some will enjoy it.

I think the much more important changes are to WD, shields, and independent L/R, not to mention how everyone else got toned down. Overall I think this is a great (too great, honestly) update for Luigi.
Although, I still pretty much agree with all the changes I've previously wanted, and will never stop bringing up my pet plan of 1-Up jingle on sweetspot SJP, especially when Link gets something as cool as a Big Band taunt.

 

[Cubelarooso]

Also down-angled Ftilt kept its shield damage, hopefully confirming that it's a nod to Melee's typo on the same move (and also a fitting addition to PM Luigi's general shield-damageyness).

Viewing ledgegrab boxes will make learning GM sweetspot a whole lot easier. Same for invicibility overlay and perfect ledgedashes, and hitstun overlay and Luigi's punishes.

Also, he "Hoo"s when short hopping (hence WDing) now. Can't say my opinion there, yet.

 

[JesteRace]

Weegee will be friggin boss in this patch.

 

[TTTTTsd]

I like how Luigi got barely any changes beyond aesthetics outside of general system stuff like WD and other things, but since a lot of the cast got toned down he's just better by proxy. I feel like he stands a lot more of a chance here. Shield DI is really important for Luigi (Up+B OoS situational as hell shenanigans but it counts!), smoother WDing helps people control him better, Up air got a really weird buff lol (I guess it helps...a little?). I'm inclined to agree with Cube's post above, this is pretty solid.

 

[Cubelarooso]

Found another thing. Luigi's grab has technically been nerfed in range, but it doesn't really look noticeable at all, especially if you know to JC.

Also, I think the "instant break effect" means that you should be wary of just instantly GM'ing when knocked offstage, as he'll now just drift into the blastzone during the startup. Rather, wait until you've stopped your backwards momentum, first, spending your double jump if necessary.

 

[Broasty]

I always JC my grabs...and man, Weegee is a freaking baller with his grab game. For pretty much all the matchups I found he could CG/Tech Chase CG in 3.02, he can do in 3.5 and more. Words cannot express how good it felt to pull a "perfect stock" where I CGed Sheik and moved her to the edge, followed by a DThrow Button Spike. It was like watching Hax pulling a 20XX with Fox. Calling it now, #grapplerlife20XX

At least from the way I space and use Tornados, I haven't really noticed much of a difference, outside of trying to follow up the 2nd hit with a slightly above ground Nair becuase of no continued Shield Pressure. Seems so far the Shield DI doesn't let you get in for a grab, so much as not push you away...but I found due to this, matchups like Marth are now possible to OoS WD in for the grab without a Powershield (thank God).

As far as my thoughts go for Dash Attack, seems like if you initiate the attack on the opponent close enough, they get locked in for a followup FTilt. If they're too far, they can't be followed up. Dash Attack ledgepushing is still absolutely a thing...in fact, it's like, really a thing now. It's guarrented now and that last hit may allow us to follow up with a proper punish at the end for the kill. This could be a huge thing for Luigi, as it could be they more reliant way to go for horizontal kills on large ceiling stages that people tend to use as counter picks for Luigi. What this attack DOESN'T seem to do is act as a go-to Dash Attack out of Dash Dance like Marth (strong hit) or Fox (if spaced right, crosses up)...and frankly I'm glad as that would completely ruin what makes Luigi's neutral fun in my opionion. I'm going to look into it as a last resort move, or in other words, a move you'd throw out if you know a character will go in for a grab and you don't have the space to wiff it. This is honestly something I believe Luigi desperately needs.

I'm going to a Tourney on Tuesday in Orlando. I'm bringing a notepad and I'm going to try seeing if I can hit up all the matchups, really want to see where Weegee is now.

On a side note...dat moment when you $5 MM'd Strongbad just to tell him about the Wave Scuttle only to see it not implimented....perhaps we should all like, send emails to PMDT so they know that's a big thing from the Luigi community...it's really awkward trying to integrate a 1 directional thing to your game play.

Also, the green effects got me to switch to Mr. L lol.

 

[ThegreatVaporeon1]

Im not liking the down b end lag change. It just limits his approach even more, and it's just something I wonder why they changed. I mean, I get it; it was pretty hard to punish and had braindead followups if it hit..but there's almost nothing he can do with his new nado aside from getting damage and probably pull off a nair or bair if the opponent gets low.
Ive also noticed that the down b rise offstage is harder to get but I'm not too sure. His up b is back to his 2.6 up b as in it gets height, but I like how they made the landing lag less.
I just kind of wish he still had his 3.02 recovery (up b and nado).

And yeah wave scuttle STILL isn't fixed. I blame the illuminati.

 

[Broasty]

Im not liking the down b end lag change. It just limits his approach even more, and it's just something I wonder why they changed. I mean, I get it; it was pretty hard to punish and had braindead followups if it hit..but there's almost nothing he can do with his new nado aside from getting damage and probably pull off a nair or bair if the opponent gets low.
Ive also noticed that the down b is harder to get but I'm not too sure. His up b is back to his 2.6 up b as in it gets height, but I like how they made the landing lag less.
I just kind of wish he still had his 3.02 recovery up b and nado).

And yeah wave scuttle STILL isn't fixed. I blame the illuminati.

I do feel like in 3.02, I, like many Luigi players, relied on DownB a little to much for approaching. Certainly still works wonders if well timed and placed according to matchup and percent...but now it's an option as opposed to a crutch.

 

[JesteRace]

I didn't abuse tornado enough in the first place cause that's just how I am. It was the only thing that needed a slight tone down for the sake of thoughtful gameplay. Again, by slipping under the nerf hammer, Luigi has the chance to shine in 3.5

 

[Xykness]

I believe that the nado nerf was quite needed. I almost felt bad about using it in my gameplay before because it was a gimmick for 90% of my opponents that felt free most of the time. The good players found out how to punish it, but this nerf allows for me to not rely on my down b as much, forcing mixups and just better overall gameplay. Down b is still good, it's not unusable by any means.

I actually really enjoy the new dash attack buff. I actually mean to use it in certain situations now for ending sheild pressure and zoning certain recoveries out.

The up b lag decrease is a nice mini buff.

The up air thing is a weird buff, but I'm not complaining.

The one thing I wanted most was for wave scuttle to go both directions, but I will continue to use it nevertheless. I wouldn't place as high as I do without it. It's what makes me the Luigi player I am, baits well, mixes up your approach, spacing scuttle smashes is godlike, and it's super silly.

 

[Cubelarooso]

Huh, I had read the Up-B change as from 40 to 45. And yet I somehow still realized that it now matched Melee.

I'm really think Luigi will be high tier this time around. Maybe even near the top. I just hope there isn't an influx of abusers to cause complaints.

 

[ThegreatVaporeon1]

I don't know; it's just i kind of miss his down b followups (even had a salty highlights of me doing it ), but whatever, I'll just try to adapt to this one.

 

[OnFullTilt]

Huh, I had read the Up-B change as from 40 to 45. And yet I somehow still realized that it now matched Melee.

I'm really think Luigi will be high tier this time around. Maybe even near the top. I just hope there isn't an influx of abusers to cause complaints.

Just curious as to why you think Luigi can be abused by a lot of people (not saying you're wrong). He doesn't strike me as someone you can just pick up and play after a little while, which is what most character abusers do. Are you saying you think he's so good that tons of people might play him or is it something other than that?

 

[Xykness]

I believe that with all the other characters being nerfed, Luigi has gotten significantly better by default because of the matchups. I thought Luigi was hidden boss high tier before, so I think he has a lot of potential even now. People underestimated him in 3.02 and even considered him among the bottom six. They soon shall see.

 

[Cubelarooso]

Just from comparing forum reactions, it seems that players of nearly every other character are quite upset that they can no longer rely on their jank, while Luigi's bust movement and recovery go unscathed, and he even gets a jankier dash attack.

Also, I realized something else: now that every button registers individually, the dpad strat for rising Cyclone will be even more effective.

 

[CBO0tz]

Just from comparing forum reactions, it seems that players of nearly every other character are quite upset that they can no longer rely on their jank, while Luigi's bust movement and recovery go unscathed, and he even gets a jankier dash attack.

Also, I realized something else: now that every button registers individually, the dpad strat for rising Cyclone will be even more effective.

What's the dpad strat?

 

[ThegreatVaporeon1]

Just curious as to why you think Luigi can be abused by a lot of people (not saying you're wrong). He doesn't strike me as someone you can just pick up and play after a little while, which is what most character abusers do. Are you saying you think he's so good that tons of people might play him or is it something other than that?

Just from comparing forum reactions, it seems that players of nearly every other character are quite upset that they can no longer rely on their jank, while Luigi's bust movement and recovery go unscathed, and he even gets a jankier dash attack.

Also, I realized something else: now that every button registers individually, the dpad strat for rising Cyclone will be even more effective.

OMG I didn't even know the dpad strat was a thing. I'm getting that its basically assigning "special" to dpad and pressing it while pressing b to rise farther?

His burst movement is scathed; down b has more endlag to it, as is his recovery, where its harder to sweetspot the ledge because of how high his up b goes now. And tbh his dash attack needed a buff, that was literally the worst move in the game lol. Also DA is still unsafe on shields (altho it does considerable shield damage), and you still have to commit a good 2 seconds to it.

 

[Boomer3d]

Can someone please explain the buff to U-air like I just started learning the game.

Also I do miss the follow ups from cyclone, but it is justified. You can't do dair out of it anymore with two presses(which was great for shield poking), but you can your other aerials with strict timing. Re-adjusting to it is a pain though.

Also it seems like the extra endlag can be "cancelled" by jumping. Can anyone else confirm?

 

[TxB | Ramsaur]

I'm posting this in the melee luigi and P:M luigi boards.

I've been struggling against captain falcon lately. And I've never seen Abate lose to a captain falcon, even Hax. So my questions are: Does Luigi counter captain falcon? If so, how so? And what are some general tips I can use to improve my new luigi (that I picked up purely for the CF matchup) Thanks friends!

 

[ThegreatVaporeon1]

I'm posting this in the melee luigi and P:M luigi boards.

I've been struggling against captain falcon lately. And I've never seen Abate lose to a captain falcon, even Hax. So my questions are: Does Luigi counter captain falcon? If so, how so? And what are some general tips I can use to improve my new luigi (that I picked up purely for the CF matchup) Thanks friends!

Captain Falcon wins the matchup, but Luigi has tricks to get the job done. The matchup in melee was one of Luigi easier ones in my opinion (still difficult but not as hard as say Marth, Sheik, etc). Falcon basically has some of the best mobility in the game, both ground and air. He can essentially juggle you in the air and finish with a knee or w/e with improper di. The thing with Luigi, though, is that his ground mobilliy is just as, if not slightly better, than falcon's ground game, so this makes it easier to chase him on the ground. Falcon's weight and fall speed allows us to get a lot of combos on him as well (uthrow works wonders from what i've noticed), so getting that grab and following up is important (uthrow -> usmash, or dthrow, dair waveland ftilt for examples). When hes comboing you in the air, you want to di down and away from him, possibly get a di down uair to stop the combo string or a nair if you are able to. This stops all the momentum that falcon was gaining, and switches it back to neutral, where you can start your own string of combos by chasing.
Edgeguarding falcon is very easy for Luigi. His predictable recovery allows Luigi to get a clean edgeguard with essentially any aerial (except nair obviously). You can grab the ledge, drop bair, and that will essentially be the stock, or try going for a turnaround fireball from the ledge to stop him. Fair and dair work wonders as well. Honestly, you can really get creative with it; luigi's edgeguard is pretty good, and on falcon it's amazing.

Essentially you want to be able to escape falcon's air combos, try going for ground options, and combo him with luigi's amazing combo strings and falcons weight and fall speed. Edgeguarding is free for Luigi in this matchup, so don't hesistate to go offstage when he is, as well.

Hope that helped a little. Luigi may not be the best counter to Falcon since Falcon does win this matchup, but it can work.

Also you should watch eddie mexico vs S2J, where eddie mexico wins grand finals. A lot of great plays by eddie that give s2j a really tough time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOzLW5_pKbU

 

[ThegreatVaporeon1]

Is it just me or are Luigi's Up and down angled fsmashes different? As in they don't angle as high or low as before?

 

[TxB | Ramsaur]

Dang, I thought Luigi was a counter to Falcon. Would you say it's +1 falcon? And I have trouble judging if falcon is gonna go high or low since his Up B goes SOOO much further than it does in melee. I saw Abate doing a lot of Wavedash>Usmash to mess up Hax. I'm guessing that's a thing to shut down the SHnair shenanigans?

 

[ThegreatVaporeon1]

Dang, I thought Luigi was a counter to Falcon. Would you say it's +1 falcon? And I have trouble judging if falcon is gonna go high or low since his Up B goes SOOO much further than it does in melee. I saw Abate doing a lot of Wavedash>Usmash to mess up Hax. I'm guessing that's a thing to shut down the SHnair shenanigans?

Yeah I can agree it's +1 for falcon.
And yeah it can be tough to predict the up b, but once you adapt to it, it shouldn't be too difficult. Wavedash upsmash works, just gets predictable.
Just try mixing it up, really.

 

[JesteRace]

I think it's slightly in Luigi's favor, even in Melee, but that's just me.

 

[TxB | Ramsaur]

Well I also play Luigi in Brawl, and if I'm ever in a bad situation in the air in that game, I just press Nair. I swear Nair get's me out of every bad aerial situation in Brawl. It's straight up a combo breaker. Is it the same way in Melee/P:M?

 

[ThegreatVaporeon1]

Well I also play Luigi in Brawl, and if I'm ever in a bad situation in the air in that game, I just press Nair. I swear Nair get's me out of every bad aerial situation in Brawl. It's straight up a combo breaker. Is it the same way in Melee/P:M?

Nair is a good option to break out of combos, but its very easy to bait out against a good player. Dont spam nair every time you get combo'd, mix it up with good DI instead and use nair only a few times. Nair has a lot of active frames for the opponent to punish you.

 

[ThegreatVaporeon1]

Is it just me or are Luigi's Up and down angled fsmashes different? As in they don't angle as high or low as before?

Anyone?

 

[JesteRace]

It's already such a small angle that it's hard to tell. It looks the same to me.

 

[Broasty]

As far as I've seen from the different tilts (based off Cube's CC table and my experience), the angles aren't noticeably different, but the knockback distance (best at high) and shield damage (best at low) are. Seems choice should be based on hitting the opponent's hurtbox and what effect suits your situation best.