The Lost DK Knowledge

[crifer]

Id rather use a move that doesn't have 12 seconds of cool down

12 would be amazing :D

"Dash Attack ...9-20/54..(Does a weaker hit on frames 12-20. Catches items on frames 1-5)"
(Frame data thread by Big O).

 

[waldorf2007]

I use dash attack often if I'm not confident that I'll get a better punish on a person getting off the edge. If someone's using the normal getup or an ok aerial dash attack will just sit there and take them, and it can be safer than trying to shield grab or dash to something (besides dash punch that's good).

 

[1PokeMastr]

I didn't see this anywhere, so, I'll post here.
D-Throw -> Buffer D-Tilt.
It can get some pretty nice damage, as well as trip them, and then you can get a Down B on them too.
Easy 34%, or more.

And, F-Tilt aimed down has a high trip rate just like D-Tilt.
It's a nice way to mix things up with it, isntead of always staling D-Tilt, haha.

 

[KoSa!]

The most effective way I use the DA is when they are on the edge of the stage, and will get pushed off if they do shield. Other than that DA is bad, and who runs in brawl anyways.

 

[Neon!]

I didn't see this anywhere, so, I'll post here.
D-Throw -> Buffer D-Tilt.
It can get some pretty nice damage, as well as trip them, and then you can get a Down B on them too.
Easy 34%, or more.

And, F-Tilt aimed down has a high trip rate just like D-Tilt.
It's a nice way to mix things up with it, isntead of always staling D-Tilt, haha.

I use it a lot but it doesnt work on everyone. It's lots of fun to use in the dittos though since it always leads to down-b!

 

[DtJ S2n]

Id rather use a move that doesn't have 12 seconds of cool down

This is what I thought until I was enlightened by dash attack. My advice is just don't mess up with it duh. I'm just saying you guys should play around with it a little it has it's uses.

Also d-throw to d-tilt heck yes. Even on characters it's not guaranteed on, it's a great follow-up to try.

 

[DUB]

Dash Attacks unpredicatbleness is the reason that lulzy move hits every now and then.

A couple of stuations I've seen it hit semi-regularly:

Charging DK Punch and opponent is charging you. A quick cancel and buffered dash attack is unexpected. Granted if they throw shield up you are screwed, but if they commonly approach with dash attach or low priority moves. Also when opponnent is on the edge, if you act like u are beggining to walk away and come back with a dash attack and can catch quite a few ledge options.

Not completely sure on this one, someone going to have to add. DK's dash attack seems to linger a little. Not talking like Lucario F-smahs linger, but maybe long enough to reliably catch spotdodges?

All in all, even if you can land dash attack, there was probably a better option. Not saying the move is useless though.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

D-throw to dash attack at really low percents instead of F-tilt. Now you have a use for it

 

[Ripple]

it doesn't work. it doesn't have enough reach

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Yes it does. It only works on certain characters though. This is a better option against Falco since you don't really want him near you at low percentages and this sends him further than F-tilt

 

[Ripple]

you always want falco near you

 

[SaveMeJebus]

D-throw to F-tilt is not really safe for DK at low percentages in this match up. He risks getting chain grabbed since F-tilt doesn't send Falco that far. Dash attack may have more cooldown, but it sends them a hell of a lot further that F-tilt does at low percentages.

 

[Eazy23]

We should figure out a way to really communicate our knowledge of this character. Everything being said here so far is basic, helpful, but basic. I'm trying to push this character to the limit and then some.

Who is really really good at beating tornado?
Type it out anyway that you can. I REFUSE to take ANY losses to ANY mk who is not a better PLAYER than me because of that move.

I'm working. I'm winning. But I want to win more. I want to see DK in the top 10 at Apex. If you really have some passion for this character, and put in the work that I do, lets talk.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Footstooling helps against tornado

 

[Ripple]

footstooling does not beat tornado.

f-tilt angled up does 2x then you need to refresh it like 4 times.

up tilt breaks it once and then you need to refresh it 3 times.

dash attack breaks it sometimes but isn't reliable at all.

up-b breaks it only when it's level 5 stale and you only have a 1 frame window to do it

that's all you can do to break it. DK loses hard to tornado

 

[Neon!]

You will always lost to MK's who are near your skill level if they use tornado competently, its pretty much a fact.

When you play the matchup control a zone far enough away from mk so that you can ftilt tornado on reaction. Having a better reaction time allows you to form your "wall" closer to metaknight making it easier for you to break his zone.

I'm not really sure why you're bringing mk up since he will be banned soon and DDD/olimar are more of a threat to dk in general.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

footstooling does not beat tornado.

No one said it did. I just said it helps

 

[Neon!]

I recently realized that I've been using DK incorrectly. I've always tried to use him like marth: set up a "perfect" zone and wait for people to approach. Sadly this strategy is useless against characters like falco, olimar, diddy and mk who have been my personal hardest matchups.

I have taken an interest in Eazy's post. I've always imagined what would happen if characters could be controlled by a perfect computer, how would the computer's play look different from top players? If we want DK to be played his best we need to really examine what works and what doesnt. After finals I may make a thread (or post in this thread) a list of every mixup/AT I can think of and when and who to use them against.

Nairos recent succes at concentrate reminded me that DK isn't meant to played "perfectly," he's a high risk/high reward character that needs to be played with some sense of aggressiveness in most matchups. I still think DK's most distinguishing characteristic isnt really built into the game at all, its an intangible factor that can affect any player: intimidation. Dk's unpredictability with charged punch/9 wind, cargo grabs/spikes and even shield pressure with side-b make him a very scary character. DK's killing/weight ratio is almost as good/ on par with snakes. Snake can live longer than we can with well timed grenades while we have momentum cancels (side-b and up-b) and a better recovery.

This post is probably a result of my recently new-found confidence in the character and I hope what I've posted so far can be of some use.

 

[1PokeMastr]

Dsmash beats Nado.
Up B Beats Nado.
10 wind beats it.
Bair beats it.
F-Tilt aimed up beats it.
Dash Attack.
And U-Tilt.
And well, Dairing him from above too. Though, I prefer to PS it on reaction, then use Down B to punish when he retreats, it works great for me, Also, Down B to Punish works Wonders.

Though, I would like to see what Ripple suggested about the thread.

 

[crifer]

I recently realized that I've been using DK incorrectly. I've always tried to use him like marth: set up a "perfect" zone and wait for people to approach. Sadly this strategy is useless against characters like falco, olimar, diddy and mk who have been my personal hardest matchups.

I have taken an interest in Eazy's post. I've always imagined what would happen if characters could be controlled by a perfect computer, how would the computer's play look different from top players? If we want DK to be played his best we need to really examine what works and what doesnt. After finals I may make a thread (or post in this thread) a list of every mixup/AT I can think of and when and who to use them against.

Nairos recent succes at concentrate reminded me that DK isn't meant to played "perfectly," he's a high risk/high reward character that needs to be played with some sense of aggressiveness in most matchups. I still think DK's most distinguishing characteristic isnt really built into the game at all, its an intangible factor that can affect any player: intimidation. Dk's unpredictability with charged punch/9 wind, cargo grabs/spikes and even shield pressure with side-b make him a very scary character. DK's killing/weight ratio is almost as good/ on par with snakes. Snake can live longer than we can with well timed grenades while we have momentum cancels (side-b and up-b) and a better recovery.

This post is probably a result of my recently new-found confidence in the character and I hope what I've posted so far can be of some use.

Interesting post :-)
I think my DK has sometimes to be more unpredictable, that´s probably my main problem right now. I should always mix up sh double bairs with sh bair to DJ, sh bair to dj bair, sh bair to airdodge to ftilt/grab and stuff like that.
More running forth and back should hep to zone better, especially with pivot grabs.

 

[Ripple]

I think us DK's have psychic abilities. I talked to will about everything you just posted neon just earlier today

I was just like, Will, we need to be more aggro.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

DK's dash U-smash is pretty good. It hits characters that are medium size or bigger and it kills at low percents. Small hitbox though

 

[Eazy23]

Nairos recent succes at concentrate reminded me that DK isn't meant to played "perfectly," he's a high risk/high reward character that needs to be played with some sense of aggressiveness in most matchups. I still think DK's most distinguishing characteristic isnt really built into the game at all, its an intangible factor that can affect any player: intimidation. Dk's unpredictability with charged punch/9 wind, cargo grabs/spikes and even shield pressure with side-b make him a very scary character. DK's killing/weight ratio is almost as good/ on par with snakes. Snake can live longer than we can with well timed grenades while we have momentum cancels (side-b and up-b) and a better recovery.

This post is probably a result of my recently new-found confidence in the character and I hope what I've posted so far can be of some use.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Exactly! Most top players I discuss smash with can not understand this. I think only certain people understand this aspect as a reality. The mental aspect to DK is REAL and without it he is simply decent. Dk with a charged punch is a DIFFERENT character. Very few players are confident enough with their knowledge to continue the mu vs DK as scripted. Wow I'm just really glad someone else understands this. We could go on and on about this, but your example of Nairo really seals the deal. He does ALOT of things wrong, but his aggression and confidence causes such fearful reactions in his opponents that mu's change so fast.


I bring up mk SOLELY because of Apex. I can beat most Olimars based off of his weaknesses. I have other characters for Diddy if need be. I'm originally a Marth main. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjcECg7tF0U

I do very well vs MK in general, but ok is not enough. I'm not in it for "I got M2k to last stock" "I almost beat so n so". I want to win, I'm sure you understand that. Mk has no glaring weakness that I can abuse and nado just puts things into the Twilight Zone of difficulty.

 

[GoblinGamerKid]

Well im not sure if its still worth it to play DK anymore.

 

[Jebu-95]

DK has his always so tempting charm but he also does a good job at discouraging top players from using him.