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The Legendary Heroes of Galar - Zacian and Zamazenta for Smash

Which would you rather see get in Smash as a newcomer?

  • Zacian

  • Zamazenta


Results are only viewable after voting.

LukeRNG

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Also, you guys think Journeys will bring back some of Ash's old Pokemon? Even if it's not the ones at Oak's Lab, some of the released or in training Pokemon, (like Greninja, Lapras, Primeape, Butterfree, the Alola Pokemon, etc) would be nice to see again.
I believe the episode in Sun & Moon that features Brock & Misty and a few of Ash's old pokemon may have been testing the waters a bit for the future, as they did say that if the episode was well recieved; they'd consider bringing back other old characters,

And just recently we had the return of Korrina, so i don't think that'd be difficult to do. Especially since i recal them mentioning that every single pokemon ever would get shown off in the series.

Though if they went the route of Ash returning to Oak's lab, it'd be a cluster of pokemon.
 
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Pokelego999

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I believe the episode in Sun & Moon that features Brock & Misty and a few of Ash's old pokemon may have been testing the waters a bit for the future, as they did say that if the episode was well recieved; they'd consider bringing back other old characters,

And just recently we had the return of Korrina, so i don't think that'd be difficult to do. Especially since i recal them mentioning that every single pokemon ever would get shown off in the series.

Though if they went the route of Ash returning to Oak's lab, it'd be a cluster of pokemon.
Yep, that's what I hope. On top of that, there's many pokemon who've made a very small amount of appearences in the anime (Klinklang, Basculin, quite a few others) that by now deserve some spotlight. I have high hopes for this anime.
 

Cosmic77

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Yeah, I figure this'll lead to Sirfetch'd getting an uptick in attention from speculators...though I'm kind of skeptical of its actual chances. Not only is it only obtainable in Sword, does it even appear in Shield at all? One of the major reasons why I think Zacian and Zamazenta have a legitimate chance is because they both play crucial story roles in both versions.
Not sure. Some exclusives like Ponyta (Bede) are present in both games. Others aren't. I know Bea has one, but she's only in Sword. Can't remember if there were any random trainers who used one in Shield, but I guess it doesn't really matter too much.

Honestly, even if Sirfetch'd did appear in both versions without trading, I'm doubtful of its chances. It's got a cool design for a Pokemon, but there's not much about it that makes it stand out among other swordfighters. Even its signature move is nothing more than it charging forward with its sword. I know that's a poor argument when our last Pokemon was Incineroar, but we already have a knight in Smash. Sakurai would have to choose Sirfetch'd because he genuinely thought it had a lot of moveset potential, and compared to Zacian, a swordfighter who has two forms, can raise its attack power, and has the ability to fuse its wings to make a larger sword, I just don't see it being all that likely.
 

Delzethin

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Not sure. Some exclusives like Ponyta (Bede) are present in both games. Others aren't. I know Bea has one, but she's only in Sword. Can't remember if there were any random trainers who used one in Shield, but I guess it doesn't really matter too much.

Honestly, even if Sirfetch'd did appear in both versions without trading, I'm doubtful of its chances. It's got a cool design for a Pokemon, but there's not much about it that makes it stand out among other swordfighters. Even its signature move is nothing more than it charging forward with its sword. I know that's a poor argument when our last Pokemon was Incineroar, but we already have a knight in Smash. Sakurai would have to choose Sirfetch'd because he genuinely thought it had a lot of moveset potential, and compared to Zacian, a swordfighter who has two forms, can raise its attack power, and has the ability to fuse its wings to make a larger sword, I just don't see it being all that likely.
If you want to get technical, Sirfetch'd uses a lance, not a sword. But the same problems to still apply; there isn't a whole lot to go off other than "has a lance and shield". We already have Byleth incorporating a strong, long ranged, but slow angle of spearfighting while also keeping things interesting with three other weapons. There's even another option for a spear user in Bandana Dee, the exact type of long running fan request we could get in Pass 2 who just so happens to have his own take on the weapon type, focused more around shorter ranged rapid stabs and spins (while also being able to work in additional weapons based on the Parasol and Beam abilities, among other things). I just don't see how Sirfetch'd could carve out an interesting niche next to that.

I'm skeptical on Urshifu for similar reasons. The "promotion" argument is overblown from the community assuming it must be why newer characters are chosen (even though Sakurai has said it's more about having some new characters as an interesting contrast next to all the older faces, not to advertise a new release). Their niche as martial artists isn't all that unique when we have multiple characters using martial arts as-is, including one Pokémon who already learns hard into it...as well as, y'know, the two most famous martial artists in all of gaming.

Even the stance-based concept I've seen suggested has issues. For one, it'd be a breach of canon--each Kubfu learns one fighting style--and I'm not sure if that's something Sakurai would be willing to breach for the sake of a character concept. For two, if the DLC team really was up for a two-movesets-in-one concept and had their eye on Gen 8 for it, then Zacian and Zamazenta are right there. Who could not only pull it off, but 1) do more interesting things with it since their statlines and weapons of choice are so different, 2) be inherently unique since quadruped fighters are extremely rare in Smash so far and neither are as big or heavy as they'd be, 3) have more established identities to build off since they're specific individuals and not random members of a species, and 4) wouldn't require any such creative liberties to fit a tag team concept since they are canonically accustomed to fighting alongside each other and even do exactly that in their game's climax!

I just...don't see it, you know? Short of Sakurai deciding we needed a kung fu stance changer so we could say we had one.

Meanwhile, check this out.

Caveat emptor since the usual TCG gacha rules are in play (and apparently a couple of the packs are from previous years), but it's neat. Especially with how they come with promo merch.

I wonder if those figures are sold separately...
 

LukeRNG

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Yep, that's what I hope. On top of that, there's many pokemon who've made a very small amount of appearences in the anime (Klinklang, Basculin, quite a few others) that by now deserve some spotlight. I have high hopes for this anime.
Arcanine surprises me by how little it shows up in the anime considering how popular it it. Like, it's really low.
Compared to Luxray who has way more (mostly thanks to Clemont).

I'd love for a major character to get an Arcanine, even Ash.
 

Cosmic77

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If you want to get technical, Sirfetch'd uses a lance, not a sword. But the same problems to still apply; there isn't a whole lot to go off other than "has a lance and shield". We already have Byleth incorporating a strong, long ranged, but slow angle of spearfighting while also keeping things interesting with three other weapons. There's even another option for a spear user in Bandana Dee, the exact type of long running fan request we could get in Pass 2 who just so happens to have his own take on the weapon type, focused more around shorter ranged rapid stabs and spins (while also being able to work in additional weapons based on the Parasol and Beam abilities, among other things). I just don't see how Sirfetch'd could carve out an interesting niche next to that.

I'm skeptical on Urshifu for similar reasons. The "promotion" argument is overblown from the community assuming it must be why newer characters are chosen (even though Sakurai has said it's more about having some new characters as an interesting contrast next to all the older faces, not to advertise a new release). Their niche as martial artists isn't all that unique when we have multiple characters using martial arts as-is, including one Pokémon who already learns hard into it...as well as, y'know, the two most famous martial artists in all of gaming.

Even the stance-based concept I've seen suggested has issues. For one, it'd be a breach of canon--each Kubfu learns one fighting style--and I'm not sure if that's something Sakurai would be willing to breach for the sake of a character concept. For two, if the DLC team really was up for a two-movesets-in-one concept and had their eye on Gen 8 for it, then Zacian and Zamazenta are right there. Who could not only pull it off, but 1) do more interesting things with it since their statlines and weapons of choice are so different, 2) be inherently unique since quadruped fighters are extremely rare in Smash so far and neither are as big or heavy as they'd be, 3) have more established identities to build off since they're specific individuals and not random members of a species, and 4) wouldn't require any such creative liberties to fit a tag team concept since they are canonically accustomed to fighting alongside each other and even do exactly that in their game's climax!

I just...don't see it, you know? Short of Sakurai deciding we needed a kung fu stance changer so we could say we had one.
Honestly, the biggest roadblock for Urshifu IMO is what everyone else seems to consider its greatest strength. I don't think TPC nor Sakurai are more likely to choose a DLC Pokemon over one from the base game.

One, a DLC Pokemon isn't going to attract as many people as a base game Pokemon would. Not everyone is buying the DLC, but everyone who owns the game would have some type of connection with a starter or Legendary. Two, you don't need to specifically add content from the SwSh DLC in Smash in order to promote it. Literally any SwSh Pokemon could be used as a segway for promoting Isle of Armor or Crown Tundra.

If TPC/Sakurai really cared about promoting the latest stuff with a character that much, then why did we get Incineroar instead of Dusk Lycanroc or Eevee? Promotion is important, but people are giving it way too much power.

Caveat emptor since the usual TCG gacha rules are in play (and apparently a couple of the packs are from previous years), but it's neat. Especially with how they come with promo merch.

I wonder if those figures are sold separately...
Looks pretty cool. Sadly, I don't have high hopes for that merch to be released separately.
 

LukeRNG

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What's everyone been up to in these days?
I'm catching up on some TV series i've been sitting on, namely Avatar. And i'm now learning about programming for game development.
 

fogbadge

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I got Ultra Moon and am currently playing through it for the first time. It would be fun if they didn't escort me everywhere. I can't move a step without them breathing down my spine.
it does feel like you were being sort of forced into the island trial
 

Staarih

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So, Goh did indeed catch Sobble in today's episode. I wonder if Grookey will end up in his team eventually as well. Either way, I'm not sure where the starters will stand anime-wise in the long run - Ash doesn't own one (yet), unless Grookey suddenly becomes his "ace" for the season. Scorbunny may have got the head start with Goh, but I think some focus will now shift onto Sobble.
 

fogbadge

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So, Goh did indeed catch Sobble in today's episode. I wonder if Grookey will end up in his team eventually as well. Either way, I'm not sure where the starters will stand anime-wise in the long run - Ash doesn't own one (yet), unless Grookey suddenly becomes his "ace" for the season. Scorbunny may have got the head start with Goh, but I think some focus will now shift onto Sobble.
aw that sucks
 

Trevenant

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Just a question, how do people imagine a tag team concept working? Is it like Pokemon Trainer or something like Ice Climbers? I've just been thinking it works quite well but wondering how the parameters would differentiate from the other duo characters depending on which angle they look at.
 

Freduardo

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If Zacian or Sirfetch’d get into Smash, I hope a lot of people say “Oh great, another anime sword user”
 

Cosmic77

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So, Goh did indeed catch Sobble in today's episode. I wonder if Grookey will end up in his team eventually as well. Either way, I'm not sure where the starters will stand anime-wise in the long run - Ash doesn't own one (yet), unless Grookey suddenly becomes his "ace" for the season. Scorbunny may have got the head start with Goh, but I think some focus will now shift onto Sobble.
I'm sure it'll get a decent amount of time in the spotlight regardless, but I can't say for sure if we'll ever see it progress. Goh's objective is to catch all Pokemon, which means the extent of Sobble battling will likely be (1) it weakening a Pokemon before Goh captures it, or (2) defending itself against Team Rocket. They seem to be pushing Goh as an equal to Ash, so I guess it really doesn't matter which Trainer Sobble went to. Still, most of the Pokemon in Smash have had some decent battles in the anime. If that gauges how likely a Pokemon is, your best bet would probably be one of Ash's Pokemon, not Goh's.

As for Grookey, I don't have high hopes. It's clearly the least marketable of the three, and that seems to match with how the fans seem to favor the starters. If Ash gets Grookey, I'm not expecting Rillaboom to be the breakout star. It's not particularly popular outside the Smash fandom.

Just a question, how do people imagine a tag team concept working? Is it like Pokemon Trainer or something like Ice Climbers? I've just been thinking it works quite well but wondering how the parameters would differentiate from the other duo characters depending on which angle they look at.
Everyone has a different opinion. Personally, I think it'd work best as a Zelda/Sheik type deal where you can switch between an aggressive Pokemon with high attack power and speed and a Pokemon who can shrug off just about any attack when its guard is up.
 

fogbadge

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I'm sure it'll get a decent amount of time in the spotlight regardless, but I can't say for sure if we'll ever see it progress. Goh's objective is to catch all Pokemon, which means the extent of Sobble battling will likely be (1) it weakening a Pokemon before Goh captures it, or (2) defending itself against Team Rocket. They seem to be pushing Goh as an equal to Ash, so I guess it really doesn't matter which Trainer Sobble went to. Still, most of the Pokemon in Smash have had some decent battles in the anime. If that gauges how likely a Pokemon is, your best bet would probably be one of Ash's Pokemon, not Goh's.
.
goh seems to only catch pokemon go style
 

LukeRNG

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Thinking about it, I think Sakurai would definitey go with either Zacian or Zamazenta. Both could be too much work.

Regarding the episode, I didn't like how passive they were about the capture itself. They were like "Oh, i caught it? Cool." Like the capture of a STARTER wasn't that big of a deal.
 
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meleebrawler

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Thinking about it, I think Sakurai would definitey go with either Zacian or Zamazenta. Both could be too much work.

Regarding the episode, I didn't like how passive they were about the capture itself. They were like "Oh, i caught it? Cool." Like the capture of a STARTER wasn't that big of a deal.
Nobody in-universe treats starters like they are more special than other Pokemon, beyond their purpose when offered as such.
 

fogbadge

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Thinking about it, I think Sakurai would definitey go with either Zacian or Zamazenta. Both could be too much work.

Regarding the episode, I didn't like how passive they were about the capture itself. They were like "Oh, i caught it? Cool." Like the capture of a STARTER wasn't that big of a deal.
its because they sacrificed story for a character to represent a mobile game
 

Pokelego999

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So, Goh did indeed catch Sobble in today's episode. I wonder if Grookey will end up in his team eventually as well. Either way, I'm not sure where the starters will stand anime-wise in the long run - Ash doesn't own one (yet), unless Grookey suddenly becomes his "ace" for the season. Scorbunny may have got the head start with Goh, but I think some focus will now shift onto Sobble.
I don't think Raboot will lose focus. Up till now, Goh has never used his new pokemon outside of the episodes they're caught in.
 

Delzethin

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Just a question, how do people imagine a tag team concept working? Is it like Pokemon Trainer or something like Ice Climbers? I've just been thinking it works quite well but wondering how the parameters would differentiate from the other duo characters depending on which angle they look at.
I've been playing around with such an idea, actually.

The core idea is a tag team concept with only one in battle at a time (so like :ultpokemontrainer: instead of :ulticeclimbers:), but with a twist. Instead of being able to swap out at any time, you'd need to land certain attacks, which would then have the option to switch between them. For example, maybe their forward throws would have the active one lob the enemy forward as the other tags in with a followup attack while the one who performed the throw tags out. The moves could be scattered across their movesets strategially--a throw or two, a couple specials, maybe a smash attack, etc.

So if you have to rely on landing certain attacks to switch between them, what's the upside? Well, if you've gone enough time since the previous swap, the one who comes in would gain a temporary buff! Based on their abilities Intrepid Sword and Dauntless Shield (which buff Atk or Def upon switching in, respectively), Zacian would gain a boost to damage dealt while Zamazenta would have his damage taken reduced! I'm not sure exactly how long the buffs would last--maybe 10 seconds at most?

This would create a unique take on the concept of a tag team fighter that'd stand out from any we've seen prior. While the ability to switch between them would be more limited than other examples, they'd have extra incentive to keep tagging out for each other every now and then.

Of course, it'd still require two movesets for one DLC fighter, which is probably asking a bit much of the smaller development team.

Personally, I think it'd work best as a Zelda/Sheik type deal where you can switch between an aggressive Pokemon with high attack power and speed and a Pokemon who can shrug off just about any attack when its guard is up.
That's one way to look at it...though Zelda and Sheik never really worked in practice. They were originally supposed to be split between power (Zelda) and speed (Sheik), but Zelda's strongest moves were so difficult to hit with and Sheik still had good enough kill options (that means you, Frame 5 semispike forward air) that there was basically no reason to ever use Zelda.

Then Brawl happened, and they both sucked! And they've been separate fighters ever since--which makes sense in Ultimate, since now they're two different Zeldas from two different eras.

I see Zacian and Zamazenta being split more between Offense and Defense. Zacian would be a full on zone breaker who excels at approaching and pressuring with her sword, while Zamazenta would be more about baiting and punishing enemy aggression (with an extra focus on punishing stuff out-of-shield). However, their stats wouldn't be as extreme of opposites as past tag team concepts--Zacian would still be pretty heavy even though her brother is heavier, Zamazenta would still have above average mobility as a whole even though his sister is faster, and both would be roughly the same size and among the biggest characters in the game. Their attacks, and the properties of said attacks, would be what diverges their fighting styles.
 
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Cosmic77

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its because they sacrificed story for a character to represent a mobile game
I don't think Raboot will lose focus. Up till now, Goh has never used his new pokemon outside of the episodes they're caught in.
But that didn't stop the development of Scorbunny prior to capture.
About thirty episodes in, and I have to say, any Pokemon who isn't Pikachu, Raboot, or Riolu has been pretty neglected.

Goh has caught almost forty Pokemon, and I see little hope for even a fraction of them to get anything more than an occasional minor appearance here and there. Just about all of them have stayed cooped up in the park and have done absolutely nothing. Ash's Pokemon aren't much better. Dragonite and Gengar are occasionally used in battles but it seems like there's no obstacles for them to overcome. They're great battlers from the get-go, have seemingly mastered their moves, and get along with Ash and the other team members just fine. We'll see if FarFetch'd meets the same fate. As of now, Team Rocket doesn't have any Pokemon aside from Meowth who stay with them in multiple episodes, so there's no chance of any character development there.

For me, this has been a really sudden and sharp change for the show. We went from a series that did it's best to give each Pokemon just as much development as their trainers to a series that treats Pokemon like collectibles or powerful tools to use for winning battles.
 

Pokelego999

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About thirty episodes in, and I have to say, any Pokemon who isn't Pikachu, Raboot, or Riolu has been pretty neglected.

Goh has caught almost forty Pokemon, and I see little hope for even a fraction of them to get anything more than an occasional minor appearance here and there. Just about all of them have stayed cooped up in the park and have done absolutely nothing. Ash's Pokemon aren't much better. Dragonite and Gengar are occasionally used in battles but it seems like there's no obstacles for them to overcome. They're great battlers from the get-go, have seemingly mastered their moves, and get along with Ash and the other team members just fine. We'll see if FarFetch'd meets the same fate. As of now, Team Rocket doesn't have any Pokemon aside from Meowth who stay with them in multiple episodes, so there's no chance of any character development there.

For me, this has been a really sudden and sharp change for the show. We went from a series that did it's best to give each Pokemon just as much development as their trainers to a series that treats Pokemon like collectibles or powerful tools to use for winning battles.
Just like in the games. Also wait, is Wobbuffet not with them?

Anyways, this really was a step down from Alola's large amounts of character development, and XYZ's great storytelling and character arcs.
 

fogbadge

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But that didn't stop the development of Scorbunny prior to capture.
well in said mobile game you do have one partner pokemon, lets hope sobble gets his time to shine

About thirty episodes in, and I have to say, any Pokemon who isn't Pikachu, Raboot, or Riolu has been pretty neglected.

Goh has caught almost forty Pokemon, and I see little hope for even a fraction of them to get anything more than an occasional minor appearance here and there. Just about all of them have stayed cooped up in the park and have done absolutely nothing. Ash's Pokemon aren't much better. Dragonite and Gengar are occasionally used in battles but it seems like there's no obstacles for them to overcome. They're great battlers from the get-go, have seemingly mastered their moves, and get along with Ash and the other team members just fine. We'll see if FarFetch'd meets the same fate. As of now, Team Rocket doesn't have any Pokemon aside from Meowth who stay with them in multiple episodes, so there's no chance of any character development there.

For me, this has been a really sudden and sharp change for the show. We went from a series that did it's best to give each Pokemon just as much development as their trainers to a series that treats Pokemon like collectibles or powerful tools to use for winning battles.
its a shame really cause weve had some pretty good story archs over the years

with the way TPC seems to push go i cant help but wonder if they at any point suggested meltan or memetal with a go stage to sakurai
 

Pokelego999

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well in said mobile game you do have one partner pokemon, lets hope sobble gets his time to shine



its a shame really cause weve had some pretty good story archs over the years

with the way TPC seems to push go i cant help but wonder if they at any point suggested meltan or memetal with a go stage to sakurai
I personally would love Melmetal in Smash.
 

LukeRNG

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So, it seems we finally have confimation of Smash Ultimate's future:

I know most of, if not all of us were expectign this figter's pass to be the last dlc for Ultimate. But it's now official from Sakurai's column.

Which should make it very curious to see who Sakurai went with for the last characters to be added. Hopefully there's a good balance of unique ideas, overlooked & highly requested picks.
 

Cosmic77

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So, it seems we finally have confimation of Smash Ultimate's future:

I know most of, if not all of us were expectign this figter's pass to be the last dlc for Ultimate. But it's now official from Sakurai's column.

Which should make it very curious to see who Sakurai went with for the last characters to be added. Hopefully there's a good balance of unique ideas, overlooked & highly requested picks.
Not to give anyone false hope because I agree with the idea that this will be the last of Ultimate's DLC, but some people have pointed out that this article was written even before Sakurai recorded Min Min's presentation. It's possible a third pass wasn't official yet, and this was all they had planned for the time being. Something similar had been said during the first pass.

Regardless, probably for the best if we assume that F11 is our last character.
 

fogbadge

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well watched the first episode of the new series. so far goh is an eejit

also he has the same voice kiawe, thatll take some getting used to
 

Staarih

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I personally would love Melmetal in Smash.
Melmetal would be such a fun addition. It’s one of my favourite new Pokémon, and it and Meltan are in this weird ”limbo” between generations so it would represent... no generation? Or all the generations?
Are generations in Pokémon even a thing anymore lol

Anyway, yeah, super interested in seeing the rest of the second pass. Especially if that will then be it, which I personally believe it will. A Pokémon will totally fit somewhere there, right?
 

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Even though there's no confirmation just yet, there's a lot of things going on that point to a direct happening Monday. More of the Mario 35th anniversary is popping up along with the "New" tab in the smash website being removed from the Fighters section. The new tab is typically removed around the time they're about to show off a new character and given that it would've been very likely we would've gotten fighter #7 announced at e3 without the pandemic going on, it's somewhat safe to believe we could get the next character revealed soon. We might of course need to wait for it's release.

So, what are some hopes for a potential nintendo direct in July?
 
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Pokelego999

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Even though there's no confirmation just yet, there's a lot of things going on that point to a direct happening Monday. More of the Mario 35th anniversary is popping up along with the "New" tab in the smash website being removed from the Fighters section. The new tab is typically removed around the time they're about to show off a new character and given that it would've been very likely we would've gotten fighter #7 announced at e3 without the pandemic going on, it's somewhat safe to believe we could get the next character revealed soon. We might of course need to wait for it's release.

So, what are some hopes for a potential nintendo direct in July?
I'm wondering if a new FE might appear.
 

Cosmic77

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If any of this has to do with fear of a ninth FE character, I think you can relax. The best thing FE could get between now and the end of 2021 is a remake, and historically, Nintendo seems to move on from those fairly quickly. XC:DE has already died down despite being roughly a month old. Byleth should be the last of FE for Ultimate.

Of all the franchises already represented on the roster, I'd say Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, and XC are currently in the best position for a character. Paper Mario, Waluigi, and Geno are all likely for different reasons. BotW2 should release sometime by next year at the absolute latest, so it's got a decent chance of being this pass's Corrin or Byleth. Pokemon and XC are in a similar boat; both have games on the Switch that could warrant a character.
 
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