Official The Lean Mean Green Machine - Luigi Gameplay Discussion

[L9L]

I still have hard times with the recovery, I loved to play outside the plataform.... You can't do that too much now... But I'm getting better!

When I've been recovering, I've noticed that Luigi lives or dies on that second jump. If knocked to the upper corner of the blast zone, I move Luigi in a V-shape back towards the stage; down and closer to the stage, below the ledge, jump and cyclone up into the ledge. It's worked well preventing opponents from spiking me and the rising cyclone is great for catching opponents trying to guard my approach back on stage. If they are still pressuring me too much, I just drop the cyclone early and jump punch into the ledge.

Without the second jump though you're forced to resort to awkwardly missiling in and hoping the opponent doesn't spike you for just trying to live your life.

 

[thewarjoe]

Missile has so much recovery lag only if... But I'll try this! thanks

 

[Luigisama]

MIx up your recovery. Don't forget that an airdodge can be done immediately after an airdodge.

 

[Yonder]

I'm not trying to make you feel bad or anything but MK honestly was not our only issue when it came to brawl.
Snake(Immense ground game, stupid heavy, grenades), DDD(Better neutral game, Bair, Grab and Infinite), Ice Climbers(No need to explain do I?) some of the other mid tiers like DK and R.O.B were also not MU's that were simply overcome.

I'm being lenient but Luigi was where he was for good reason other than being able to punish if there opportunity was made or had arisen there was nothing else he excelled in and lack of traction, poor airspeed and having to perfect shield everything in to stay in was mostly a weakness when you had an opponent who knew how to correctly use that to their advantage.

Falling nair seems too much of a gamble, but Oos Nair dair sounds nice if it combos like you are suggesting it's a pretty nice way to rack up damage thank you for that.

Has anyone played much on Battlefield? I've mainly been playing for glory and thing is although it's clear we lost knockback/kill power is might actually not be as severe when rulesets are actually in place because at the moment we are just playing in places that can have pretty ridiculous blastzones.

I honestly have few problems with anyone else besides MK, Marth, and Game and Watch as Luigi tbh. DDD with the infinite was a bit bull too. ICS were just broken in general, everyone had trouble with them. Other than that, Snake, DK, and ROB were just juggle bait to me. Big characters for me, even if they have range, are just delicious because they're basically done if they made one mistake.


Also, been getting a ton of kills in Glory mode killing at the top of the screen with cyclone. No one ever sees it coming. Kills at 100% about.

 

[L9L]

I've also recently discovered rising cyclone as both an off stage "get off me" move and a mid screen punish! I miss the horizontal movement his Brawl cyclone had, but this one has so much more oomph to it. Definitely an important tool for Luigi.

 

[rm88]

I'm trying to stay positive about Luigi, and I do love playing as him, but I find myself missing his Brawl self so much I'm so not used to dying early because of recovery, and not having insane KO power. I suck against Rosalina, I can feel it's going to be a tough match up. I'm not sure I'm seeing what they added to him in exchange of power and recovery, to be honest.

 

[thewarjoe]

Luigi still has insane KO power :/... You have to remember the average to get kill in this game is +150...........

UP B can kill at +70 or even lower dunno yet. plus his down air can cause so many early kills.....

 

[J.Miller]

I honestly have few problems with anyone else besides MK, Marth, and Game and Watch as Luigi tbh. DDD with the infinite was a bit bull too. ICS were just broken in general, everyone had trouble with them. Other than that, Snake, DK, and ROB were just juggle bait to me. Big characters for me, even if they have range, are just delicious because they're basically done if they made one mistake.


Also, been getting a ton of kills in Glory mode killing at the top of the screen with cyclone. No one ever sees it coming. Kills at 100% about.

Your experiences are not invalid because I can agree with up till you said "one mistake" and you also seem to underestimate just how powerful characters with range and strong pushback are against Luigi. I could write an essay on this but I honestly think you would just need to learn and experience what I refer to against good players with the characters I mentioned. There are even harder match ups than DK and R.O.B that I haven't addressed.

Yeah cyclone in Smash 4 in terms of killing off the top is a much more valid option long as you are patient with it you can honestly surprise opponent and force situations.

To everyone, I have also noticed fireball pressure and in particular our dash grab in this game is really good, it feels like we get extra range due to lack of traction it's amazing for opponents attempting to prevent the bombardment we are trying to overwhelm with. Anyone not currently using Uthrow I encourage them to start making it apart of their gameplan, most u-throws now have a genuine purpose with air-dodging being toned down and landing (imo) being more difficult in general it will set up quite a good amount of possibilities for punishments.

 

[ThegreatVaporeon1]

I'm trying to stay positive about Luigi, and I do love playing as him, but I find myself missing his Brawl self so much I'm so not used to dying early because of recovery, and not having insane KO power. I suck against Rosalina, I can feel it's going to be a tough match up. I'm not sure I'm seeing what they added to him in exchange of power and recovery, to be honest.

Rosalina is a very tough matchup for our green plumber. It's so difficult to get in due to how ranged that character is and how she can gimp your recovery. And Luigi in general struggles against ranged characters, so you just have to play it smart. Rosalina will probably be his toughest character to fight against, although I may be too quick to judge that.

 

[ThegreatVaporeon1]

I guess I'll post this comment here as well since it fits here too.

Luigi's cyclone is literally his PM cyclone minus a follow up (since it takes too long for him to go back into regular position). And I love it. SDi in this game is essentially non-existent which makes it impossible to escape if it hits (I swear this move is broken). His dash attack is very good, however, it's still punishable if it misses, but when it hits, its amazing. His back air has also been buffed drastically from previous games, making it a good finisher. He also stops charging missile if you hold it for too long (thank god). His fireballs have a lot less lag which make them better and his super jump punch has the same power has brawls (i.e. amazing).

What I dont get though, is why they removed his side b to snap onto. His side b will never grab ledge and youre basically forced to use down b or up b to reach it. It's not a big issue considering how good his recovery is, but I dont get why they did it.
His misfire is a 1/10 chance now as opposed to 1/6 from brawl/melee. But this misfire is much better than both imo. In melee, you dont expect it and you'll go flying across the stage, which makes you gimpable. In brawl, the misfire was too slow. (PM's misfire is perfect in my opinion). But this one is done right. It is SO satisfying to get misfire combos with Luigi in this game. I wish I could share replays because I managed to save two that I got (I had more but didn't know how to save replays).

His aerial mobility is pretty bad, however, and I'm quite upset that they did nothing to fix it. His fair and dair are weak combo moves and are very unsafe on shield. His up b, while strong if it hits, is very hard to land a sweetspot in the air. Maybe it's just me, but I can never pull it off in the air, which I could do in melee, brawl (a small amount) and PM. His up also has A LOT of landing lag if it misses, which puts him in a bad position. Luigi also struggles against characters with range and projectiles, which both limit his approach options. This was his issue in pretty much every smash game thus far, but it's even worse in Brawl/Smash 4 due to lack of wavedash and waveland/good ground mobility. But a smart Luigi will try to get around it; but it will take a lot of work.

In my previous posts in another thread, I said Luigi is one of the worst characters in the game, and I don't think that way anymore. At worst he is in the middle, tier wise. His kill options are limited, but again he has bair, rising tornado, up/forward/down smash, and up b. A lot of my kill however are out of shield up b and up smash, with some fsmashes and bairs thrown in there. Some rising cyclones I get too, which are also amazingly satisfying.

I still think Project M's incarnation of Luigi is the best, but yes, this character is good in smash 4. He's hard to use and you have to be smart with approaching, but when you get in, you will decimate the opponent. And I still think his best neutral stage is battlefield. It's time some people paid attention to WEEGEE.

 

[Deleted member]

After playing some matches in For Glory, I think that Luigi has been buffed in many ways, but not without a few nerfs.

His down throw is an incredibly useful tool for Luigi. I use this grab the most often since it helps me set up some combos with his aerials. I actually had one match where I got someone from about 10% to about 65% thanks to Luigi's aerials and grabs. (I have a replay saved, but I don't have a good capturing device) I don't use the other grabs as often, but it looks like his back throw has been weakened.

His aerials are still as good, if not better, than they were in Brawl. His up aerial is good for juggling and racking up combos. I think that his neutral air lacks KOing power like in Brawl, but it does have good juggling abilities and combo potential as well. His back and forward aerials are more of kill moves and his down aerial has a bigger hitbox for his meteor smash.

His tilts have received some buffs, but I mainly use his up tilt since that can juggle opponents or set up combos. His down tilt seems to be a good set-up tool. His smash attacks are powerful, but his forward smash seems to be... weaker; I can't KO people with it as easily as I did with Brawl. That and it can still be easily shielded like before. I am also having a more tricky time dashing and then up smashing, but that could be an issue with the circle pad. As for his dash attack, it's improved and it's much better than before, but I wouldn't really recommend using it too much.

I've noticed that his specials have been buffed and nerfed in some way.
The Fireballs seem to travel a farther distance and they are now a more reliable approaching tool.
I believe the Green Missile has more KO power, but I wouldn't entirely recommend it and it seems to be situational. I actually do like how Luigi stops charging the move after a while. Whenever I use the move in Brawl, I notice that my opponents keep their distance away from me and they are just ready to make their strike. Now that Luigi burns out after a while, you're not forced to take a powerful hit from a character like Bowser and Ike. So, I consider this to be a buff. The fact that he can still get stuck in walls is stupid; it makes context in his goofy character, but it's annoying to see him be a sitting duck.
I love with what they did with the Luigi Cyclone. This is a special that I often use. It can rack up damage and set up some nasty combos. Characters can't easy escape from it, so you can get some decent amount of damage in. It's recovering abilities, however, are severely nerfed. What was once a godly tool for recovery now has its height cut in half. It also doesn't help that the 3DS is very uncomfortable to hold, thus mashing the B button is a bit more tiring. Once we get our GameCube controllers, I think we'll properly use the Luigi Cyclone better in his recovery. I should also note that it has more start-up and ending lag.
The Super Jump Punch... has been nerfed. It lost some KOing power and the distance is smaller. I would be on a FD version of a stage like Wily Castle or Gerudo Valley and I swear that I would have made the ledge if I had Brawl Luigi's Super Jump Punch. So, combined with a shorter distance of both the Super Jump Punch and Luigi Cyclone, Luigi's recovery is worse. There is always a sense of dread trying to KO someone off the ledge.

His major weakness is definitely dealing with enemies from a distance; I sense that characters like Sheik and Robin will give him the most trouble. His attacks still leave him wide open in some cases, so be careful of Little Mac's KO Punch.

Overall, I like this rendition of Luigi the most. He may have lost some killing power, but he makes up with fantastic aerials with great combo ability.

 

[L9L]

I'm trying to stay positive about Luigi, and I do love playing as him, but I find myself missing his Brawl self so much I'm so not used to dying early because of recovery, and not having insane KO power. I suck against Rosalina, I can feel it's going to be a tough match up. I'm not sure I'm seeing what they added to him in exchange of power and recovery, to be honest.

In my opinion, they traded his "wild card" kill power for a more stable character design with a more well-rounded tool kit. In previous Smash games, Luigi had polarizing potential. When he struggled, he REALLY struggled, but he always had an ace up his sleeve in his early kill power and bizarre movement . It made him a difficult to master character that wasn't even always worth the trouble.

In Smash 4, his movement has been more normalized. He no longer slides the same way he used to. His normals have also been evened out; his nair from Brawl is more of a juggle/combo move and not a (admittedly awesome) kill move. Same story with his up tilt. Even his dash attack has been fixed!

So they traded his crazy kill power and his already sloppy recovery for a more balanced bro. In my opinion, it's going to make Luigi more viable in the long run. He'll probably never be top tier, but it looks to me like he'll have a shot even in terrible match-ups, something he really didn't have in previous Smash. Like Mario, he has to work for what he gets, but hey, that's Luigi for ya!

 

[DJ Delta]

Rosalina is a very tough matchup for our green plumber. It's so difficult to get in due to how ranged that character is and how she can gimp your recovery. And Luigi in general struggles against ranged characters, so you just have to play it smart. Rosalina will probably be his toughest character to fight against, although I may be too quick to judge that.

I agree with this too, she is one of tougher characters I find to play, and Lucario. Don't want to go into detail as I'm sure this stuff will be discussed in matchup thread after the game has been out a while longer. However, she is one of the few characters I can consistently jab up b. At least from my experience online. Speaking of up b, it is a great way to punish landings, since air dodging to the ground has so much cooldown. Also, down throw to fair to fireball lock to up b is nice little combo if the opponent doesn't tech the landing. It's one of the advantages to Luigi's fair having weak knockback.

 

[rm88]

I'll probably go Pac-Man on Space BBW Peach. I guess it's a good thing I'm playing as lots of characters right now, but I want to narrow it down to 5 max, with Luigi being the leader

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

I haven't played much Brawl Luigi and Melee Luigi is my main.

I LOVE Luigi cyclone! Idk how it performed in Brawl but in Melee it just knocks you away. In Smash 4, this move holds you in until it finishes. It's so good for me. When someone knocks me into the air and tries to juggle I just throw this move out. It snatches them and drags them down to the ground with me while I finish the move. Also, I haven't had many issues recovering with it. I can actually get more height than I could in Melee. When the game lags tho...I get almost no height

 

[ThegreatVaporeon1]

I agree with this too, she is one of tougher characters I find to play, and Lucario. Don't want to go into detail as I'm sure this stuff will be discussed in matchup thread after the game has been out a while longer. However, she is one of the few characters I can consistently jab up b. At least from my experience online. Speaking of up b, it is a great way to punish landings, since air dodging to the ground has so much cooldown. Also, down throw to fair to fireball lock to up b is nice little combo if the opponent doesn't tech the landing. It's one of the advantages to Luigi's fair having weak knockback.

I feel as if jab up b is harder to land in this game due to his up b being slower on start up. The opponent almost always shields it and I just get punished. Maybe its my fingers not moving fast enough but it's just a lot more difficult to do, I think.

 

[Yonder]

IMO, Luigi's best move in his entire moveset in this game is far and away his cyclone. Sure it took a recovery hit, but I think the extra power and trapping ability it gained evens it out. Very few people can counter cyclone.

 

[kunimitsu877]

oh how luigi has change over the years he went from being a clone in ssb64 to a semiclone in melee to a unique character in brawl also his final smash with the poltergeist 5000 is awesome

 

[DJ Delta]

I feel as if jab up b is harder to land in this game due to his up b being slower on start up. The opponent almost always shields it and I just get punished. Maybe its my fingers not moving fast enough but it's just a lot more difficult to do, I think.

I will admit it is a lot more difficult to do. I find it hard to crouch cancel with the circle pad. I feel jab up b will work on a lot fewer characters compared to brawl, Rosalina was just one I noticed I seem to land it pretty consistent on.

Starting to see what everyone was talking about with Luigi's recovery. If you get hit out of your second jump, odd are your not making it back. That and when they see you using missle, they can simply take the hit, and gimp you in the process. Guess it's just something I need to work on.

 

[kunimitsu877]

I will admit it is a lot more difficult to do. I find it hard to crouch cancel with the circle pad. I feel jab up b will work on a lot fewer characters compared to brawl, Rosalina was just one I noticed I seem to land it pretty consistent on.

Starting to see what everyone was talking about with Luigi's recovery. If you get hit out of your second jump, odd are your not making it back. That and when they see you using missle, they can simply take the hit, and gimp you in the process. Guess it's just something I need to work on.

was luigi really that bad in ssb64

 

[DJ Delta]

Well in smash 64 his up b moved him slightly horizontal too. I don't he was bad in 64, though Mario is supposedly better. In Smash 4, up b goes straight up and doesn't go as high as it did in Brawl. I was mostly talking about smash 4 Luigi's recovery.

 

[kunimitsu877]

Well in smash 64 his up b moved him slightly horizontal too. I don't he was bad in 64, though Mario is supposedly better. In Smash 4, up b goes straight up and doesn't go as high as it did in Brawl. I was mostly talking about smash 4 Luigi's recovery.

yeah this is just 1 of the reasons i dont follow tier list because according to melee zelda is better than roy and mewtwo

 

[ThegreatVaporeon1]

I kind of wish he had a better way to deal with projectiles...i have a lot of trouble vs characters like duck hunt dog, wherein i just switch to game and watch or yoshi and win.

 

[MM720]

I main Luigi and Melee, but did not really like him in Brawl. This led me to initially dismiss Luigi and focus more on the other characters.

Then there was a time when i just picked Luigi for lolz in a For Glory just to get a serious try...
Then after doing some combos and destroying a couple of opponents, I realized that I just found my new secondary and possibly future main.

Doing stuff like dthrow>uair>fair and usmash>utilt>SSUpB almost felt like Melee. I feel like I don't even need a wavedash anymore to do very well (it would still be a HUGE help though). Luigi's very very good in this game IMO and a improvement over brawl.

Dash attack is now very useful in that the last hit does decent knockback and I can sometimes follow up (its also good at knocking people off-stage). the new dthrow feels smoother than his Brawl one (and definitely LOOKS better too).

There's still some Melee things i miss regarding his moveset like a faster bair and stronger fair. I wish fair was a kill option, but at least you can chain it and it works as a good edgeguard. Nair is good for potential follow up into a smash or even UpB (if you time it right) and I've successfully gimped people with it (it works wonders for lowering your opponent near the bottom blast line(s) for me).

Tilts work just as well as you'd expect. Ftilt is great for spacing (and is generally unexpected), utilt combos into lots of stuff and d-tilt also combos into stuff (it's definitely his worst tilt tho).


I've played lots of Weegee since I discovered his potential, so I'll be checking out more of his mechanics and combos. Luigi is definietly a solid character and right now (where many other characters don't have any staple combos or techniques) a very viable choice. I can however see him becoming weaker over time. He's also got pretty bad matchups at the moment considering the increased amount of Sword wielders as well as people with many projectiles (Robin and Shulk especially come to mind).

 

[Earthbound_PKMN_Trainer]

Hello all, another fan of the Green Plumber here ... I've always stuck fairly close to Luigi along with Ness and this game is no different. Been testing the new roster additions but when I go back to Luigi, things just feel right.

I was wondering if anyone else has experienced this ... I had some CPU in a grab, threw them off stage, followed, jumped in order to execute a DAir [hoping to horizontally send them off screen]. However, Luigi's DAir actually meteor'd [sp? you know what I mean haha] the CPU. I freaked haha.

It seemed as though if the opponent is at high percentage, then the DAir spikes them ... as I just dunked an airborne R.O.B. CPU back down to the platform doing the same thing.

Keep in mind, I have only read the first page of this thread and plan to backtrack and read others outings and experiences with Luigi.

Any thoughts?

 

[jommeez]

I'm a Luigi main and have used Luigi almost exclusively in Melee and Project M. I've been playing SSB4 for about 45 hours so far (according to the 3ds activity log) and, naturally, I've been playing as Luigi again for the most part. In Melee and Project M, Luigi's lack of traction resulted in most (if not all) serious players basing their playstyle around his excellent ability to more easily wavedash quickly and farther than other characters. Obviously, with wavedashing having been removed in SSB4, this brings a great change to how Luigi plays in terms of approaching, spacing, movement options, etc.

This is not a bad thing, however, if you still play Melee and/or Project M. I played Project M yesterday and found myself to be much smarter with approaching my opponent, which I really liked. Becoming so used to playing Luigi without wavedashing from playing only SSB4 (since I got it during the midnight launch NA release) made returning to the games where he COULD wavedash feel much easier with that extra boost (or lack of movement restriction.) Personally, I feel like playing SSB4 taught me how to approach/space myself/punish a lot better with Luigi because I wasn't focusing on trying to wavedash as much as possible, but instead on actually fighting my opponent. Being able to wavedash again caused me not to take it for granted and thus I ended up using it more effectively. Because of this, I definitely won't stop playing those games because I think wavedashing (and how Luigi plays in those games in general) is fun - which is why I chose to main Luigi in the first place.

Luigi is still a great character in SSB4, though, even if you're used to playing him in the previously mentioned games. I was really curious as to how the developers were going to make him a viable character with the wavedashing removed, but I think they did a great job and I have no real complaints. In my opinion they changed his moves well enough that, along with the lack of platforms, he doesn't even need wavedashing in SSB4. He still has the same moves - so, that carries over from the previous games - but with some updates.

Remember how you never wanted to do Luigi's dash attack and if it ever came out it was on accident? Well, now it's really good in this game. It's great for approaching and at the end of the attack it sends your opponent in the air and away from you, which is really great for comboing. Also, his tornado is a lot better in this game too, and it wasn't even bad to begin with. The tornado can cover a lot of distance while attacking and is great for getting back on the stage and when in the air and being attacked from below. You can even still perform the rising tornado (and it's easier to do) which makes Luigi's recovery AMAZING because most of the time I have no problems recovering back to the stage even without using it.

Speaking of returning to the stage, another awesome addition is that sometimes Luigi will get his head stuck in the side of the stage when he side Bs into it, so it's kind of like they gave him a cling/walljump to give him even better options to safely recover to the stage! It's a lot easier to punish and hit with sweet spots with the landing lag and slower animations and things like that too, but that's probably true with every character.

So, yeah, Luigi is different, but he's still a very solid character that I would highly recommend anyone to play in SSB4. Especially if you had any interest in him in the other games, but didn't want to wavedash too much or something. I for one am going to continue playing Luigi in Smash 4 along with Melee and Project M because they all have things about them that keep me coming back and I love playing them all! Not to mention SSB4 seems to be making me better at Melee and Project M as well, so that's a huge plus in my opinion. I just have to remember the differences between them, like the advanced techniques and available options, etc. Oh yeah, and when returning to the good old Gamecube controller, don't forget to use the c-stick for like an hour like I did.

 

[Yonder]

I'm a Luigi main and have used Luigi almost exclusively in Melee and Project M. I've been playing SSB4 for about 45 hours so far (according to the 3ds activity log) and, naturally, I've been playing as Luigi again for the most part. In Melee and Project M, Luigi's lack of traction resulted in most (if not all) serious players basing their playstyle around his excellent ability to more easily wavedash quickly and farther than other characters. Obviously, with wavedashing having been removed in SSB4, this brings a great change to how Luigi plays in terms of approaching, spacing, movement options, etc.

This is not a bad thing, however, if you still play Melee and/or Project M. I played Project M yesterday and found myself to be much smarter with approaching my opponent, which I really liked. Becoming so used to playing Luigi without wavedashing from playing only SSB4 (since I got it during the midnight launch NA release) made returning to the games where he COULD wavedash feel much easier with that extra boost (or lack of movement restriction.) Personally, I feel like playing SSB4 taught me how to approach/space myself/punish a lot better with Luigi because I wasn't focusing on trying to wavedash as much as possible, but instead on actually fighting my opponent. Being able to wavedash again caused me not to take it for granted and thus I ended up using it more effectively. Because of this, I definitely won't stop playing those games because I think wavedashing (and how Luigi plays in those games in general) is fun - which is why I chose to main Luigi in the first place.

Luigi is still a great character in SSB4, though, even if you're used to playing him in the previously mentioned games. I was really curious as to how the developers were going to make him a viable character with the wavedashing removed, but I think they did a great job and I have no real complaints. In my opinion they changed his moves well enough that, along with the lack of platforms, he doesn't even need wavedashing in SSB4. He still has the same moves - so, that carries over from the previous games - but with some updates.

Remember how you never wanted to do Luigi's dash attack and if it ever came out it was on accident? Well, now it's really good in this game. It's great for approaching and at the end of the attack it sends your opponent in the air and away from you, which is really great for comboing. Also, his tornado is a lot better in this game too, and it wasn't even bad to begin with. The tornado can cover a lot of distance while attacking and is great for getting back on the stage and when in the air and being attacked from below. You can even still perform the rising tornado (and it's easier to do) which makes Luigi's recovery AMAZING because most of the time I have no problems recovering back to the stage even without using it.

Speaking of returning to the stage, another awesome addition is that sometimes Luigi will get his head stuck in the side of the stage when he side Bs into it, so it's kind of like they gave him a cling/walljump to give him even better options to safely recover to the stage! It's a lot easier to punish and hit with sweet spots with the landing lag and slower animations and things like that too, but that's probably true with every character.

So, yeah, Luigi is different, but he's still a very solid character that I would highly recommend anyone to play in SSB4. Especially if you had any interest in him in the other games, but didn't want to wavedash too much or something. I for one am going to continue playing Luigi in Smash 4 along with Melee and Project M because they all have things about them that keep me coming back and I love playing them all! Not to mention SSB4 seems to be making me better at Melee and Project M as well, so that's a huge plus in my opinion. I just have to remember the differences between them, like the advanced techniques and available options, etc. Oh yeah, and when returning to the good old Gamecube controller, don't forget to use the c-stick for like an hour like I did.

Nice opening post here, welcome to the Luigi boards!


As for gameplay stuff, I think Luigi's worst matchups so far are ZSS, Sheik, and Mac in that order. Jesus, I encounter so, so many ZSS players in Glory mode it's annoying. Her up B kick in the air I think goes through cyclone even. Really deadly. Mac is unmatchable on the ground too, got to keep him in the air somehow. Even in the air though, you don't have much of a speed advantage on him. For Sheik, easy target on the ground all around aside from needles. Just threatening with her nasty combos in the air though combined with the air speed. Watch out.

Those are his worsts so far imo, but I wonder which matchups are his best...

 

[ThegreatVaporeon1]

Nice opening post here, welcome to the Luigi boards!


As for gameplay stuff, I think Luigi's worst matchups so far are ZSS, Sheik, and Mac in that order. Jesus, I encounter so, so many ZSS players in Glory mode it's annoying. Her up B kick in the air I think goes through cyclone even. Really deadly. Mac is unmatchable on the ground too, got to keep him in the air somehow. Even in the air though, you don't have much of a speed advantage on him. For Sheik, easy target on the ground all around aside from needles. Just threatening with her nasty combos in the air though combined with the air speed. Watch out.

Those are his worsts so far imo, but I wonder which matchups are his best...

Add lucario. duck hunt dog, shiek, and rosalina to those bad matchups..

 

[hey_there]

Hi everyone! I have been a dedicated Luigi player for all the years I played Brawl from the day it came out, and Melee before that, so moving onto Sm4sh Luigi was a pretty big change. The changes, for me, were huge. In fact, Luigi felt completely unplayable and I lost almost every match. I seriously considered dropping Luigi because he just felt like complete garbage now. But I decided to go into training mode and mess around. The next time I went onto For Glory, I was tearing through most opponents(but not all!) like a green hurricane.

Anyway, I don't know if anyone's noticed yet, but Luigi can still 'crawldash'. However, after you slide backwards his crawling is momentarily sped up. I've used this a bit as a useful spacing tool when I want an opponent to whiff so I can be in a good position to Fsmash. His regular back crawl is too slow, but with the added momentum of sliding backwards added, it's occasionally been useful. One more tool for the box can't hurt, right?

I have no trouble combo'ing to around 40% or so from low percents. The main combo I use is Dthrow -> Fair -> Uair -> Dsmash. I used to use two Fairs and end it with jab combo, but Uair does more damage than Fair, and Dsmash does more damage than a full jab combo. As well, I like to keep huge pressure with his fireballs. They go farther than they did in Brawl, and I feel like he recovers a bit quicker, so it's been very useful to keep pressure on an opponent. I can shoot a fireball and follow it, so it covers my forward movement from enemy projectiles. His Dair spike is way easier to land, and I can get it fairly reliably now, unlike in Melee and Brawl. And while his DownB is way worse in general for recovery, it does go super high after a jump. I get a surprising amount of kills off the top of the stage by chasing an opponent through the air and landing that last hit, which is really quite strong in this game.

Personally I don't find Mac to be too tough of a match up. Though, I probably just haven't faced a good one. Anyway, because of Luigi's floatiness, I find it useful to stay in the air and assault Mac with aerials. And from a single grab you can keep bouncing him around and juggling him until he's at mid-percents, then toss him off the stage for a gimp. Sheik hasn't been too problematic because Luigi's aerials have priority enough to disrupt her links, and he can hit back and combo just as hard. I've had the same sort of experience with ZSS as well. Luigi can keep up huge pressure on them just like they can pressure Luigi.

The worst match-ups I've found to be Pac-Man, Duck Hunt, and Rosalina. It's really hard to chase a good Rosalina, and she can punish really hard. As for Pac-Man and Duck Hunt, they can just outrun Luigi and throw projectiles until Luigi is at high percent, and Luigi is too damn slow to catch up. Lucario has been similar, but I find him easier to catch up to than Duck Hunt and Pac-Man.

 

[FrameImperfect]

Did anyone here ever notice Luigi's fireball having high priority? I was messing around in Smash when i figured it out. I managed to knock Falco off the stage and as Falco went to use UpB, i threw out a fireball and it knocked Falco out of his UpB. This might lead to something if we can figure out what moves the fireball beats out.

 

[DJ Delta]

I heard falco and fox no longer have invincibility on the start up of their up b, so that may be why that happens. Though I believe fireball went through it in brawl too. Though overall fireball is improved, I use it corner an opponent and they either have to jump or roll around it and you can either juggle them or punish the roll. On the subject of fireball, I find fireball to run up grab is good if they go into shield trying to block fireball.

 

[Sidoran]

@ hey_there

Have you tried ending your combo with up-B instead of down smash? It seems to work really well in training at 0%, but I'm sure it's harder to pull off against another player who's trying to keep that from happening to them. Worth a shot?

 

[Yonder]

Gonna throw this matchup impression out there, Fox is pretty...pleasant to fight. It's just easier to combo Fox than most character,s I found myself easily chaining combos that are harder to pull on others. Dair spike is easy to set up on Fire Fox too.

 

[hey_there]

combo with up-B instead of down smash

I haven't tried UpB. I'll have to give it a shot. I think I might like Down/Up smash to end the combo when racking up percent because it keeps you on the ground and allows for quicker follow-ups/juggling, but experimenting is just too fun to say no to =).

Fox matchup

I played a really solid Fox a few nights ago, and we went really back and forth. He can be easy to combo, but because of his insane speed he can gain back momentum really quick. I feel like other than against campy characters, Luigi might have a fair shot against anyone this game. Hopefully, anyway![/user]

EDIT: I just played a Ganondorf for the first time and I lost a fun match. His priority and hit boxes are way better this game than in Brawl. I couldn't get a Bair through his Fair, and losing that trade sucks big time. As a Luigi player, I am not used to having less priority than any other character D=. Has anyone else played dorf?

 

[Yonder]

Ok, I just got mutilated online by Mac. I've been able to handle any other matchup well enough, but Mac is just ANNOYING. He wrecks your ground game, and in the air he just simply counters. Sure he'd be easier on stages that aren't FD, but in for Glory mode that's not possible.

Any advice?

 

[meleebrawler]

Ok, I just got mutilated online by Mac. I've been able to handle any other matchup well enough, but Mac is just ANNOYING. He wrecks your ground game, and in the air he just simply counters. Sure he'd be easier on stages that aren't FD, but in for Glory mode that's not possible.

Any advice?

The good thing about this matchup is that Luigi probably won't have to work hard to get in,
since Mac will likely do it for you.

You really can't be the aggressor in this match-up. Hanging out near the edge
is a bread-and-butter tactic (even if it does put you closer to the blast zone), since it limits Mac's
options. Most Macs try to open with dash attack, which you can either shield or stop with a fireball.
You could even try baiting haymakers with fireballs.

Beating counters is all about knowing when your opponent is likely to use them, and in this case, you do.
Just don't be too hasty to attack Mac if you get him in the air.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

Ok, I just got mutilated online by Mac. I've been able to handle any other matchup well enough, but Mac is just ANNOYING. He wrecks your ground game, and in the air he just simply counters. Sure he'd be easier on stages that aren't FD, but in for Glory mode that's not possible.

Any advice?

I play as Little Mac but I have never played the Luigi matchup before but here's what I think:

Luigi's slow air speed leaves him very vulnerable. Little Mac is very fast on the ground so he can quickly run up and Usmash you out of your short hop. Little Mac more than likely won't jump so pressuring with fireballs is pretty safe. If he tries to approach he'll eat a fireball or have to jab to stop it. He could also side b but will only do that if he's already dashing toward you or about mid range. If Mac does not choose to side b and chooses another option (jump, jab, take fireball) then approach with a cyclone to catch him off guard. Cyclone will put him in the air after. Then you can lay on the pressure. Jump and delay an attack to bait Slip Counter. Grab anytime you get a chance. Don't let him get in your face and pressure you. You will eat a ton of damage. Jab or cyclone to get him away

 

[FlynnCL]

Luigi, to me, feels quite different in this game. It's like a similar feeling I get with Marth and Kirby. It's different, but definitely something I can try to adapt to.

I wonder if anyone can ever hit this combo against a real opponent. It'd be absolutely hilarious.

 

[Donyoku]

Luigi, to me, feels quite different in this game. It's like a similar feeling I get with Marth and Kirby. It's different, but definitely something I can try to adapt to.

I wonder if anyone can ever hit this combo against a real opponent. It'd be absolutely hilarious.

That is beautiful.....Someone, anyone, make it true.

 

[RWB]

I'm kind of wondering about Luigi's custom specials.

Regular B: Bouncing Fireball(2) and Ice Ball(3) both seem like good options.
Side B: Floating Missile and Quick Missile both seem good.
Up B: I feel like the regular one is still best.
Down B: All three seem good, but I feel the regular or the Recovery centered one are the best.

Anyone?