Official The Lean Mean Green Machine - Luigi Gameplay Discussion

[Yonder]

Actually, Bowser is the 17th fastest in the game while DK is the 20th fastest. Any Bair murders Luigi off stage (DK's bair is better than Bowser's though). The reason why I put DK as easier is because of the fireballs. Yes, DK can jab cancel them but Bowser can run through them, meaning you can't keep your distance when at a disadvantage. Also, Bowser is more unpredictable thanks to hurtbox shifting in his moves, making him a tougher opponent, while DK has more sluggish movements. This is all my opinion though, some might have easier time the other way around.

P.S. Nice Pic, looks like someone is a fan of SMBZ xD

I was counting overall since I believe DK has a much faster airspeed than Bowser...I think.
And only at low % does fireball get ignored, Luigi will rack up enough damage off a throw anyway for that to become mostly irrelavent. Maybe it's because I went up against the best DK in BC once in the top 8 of a tourney is why I think he's tougher, and DKs bair just keeps out so many of Luigi's moves...its incredible. People actually underrate just how good DKs bair is. What can't it do? It chains, intercepts, outranges, kills, no start up or cool down...

Bowser does have flame breath though, I'll give him that. They are pretty close in terms of difficulty but I give DK the slight edge imo.

Anywaya, yeah, SMBZ is great, fantastic reboot. That Luigi scene was so touching!

 

[Xephilon]

Yeah DK has higher air speed. Bowser is .93 while DK is 1.15. The thing is, Luigi is supposed to be able to beat these two easily. Everyone has their own opinions on who's stronger/harder to face due to their own skill or things they can't handle as well as others. For me, I can handle DKs easily. Space em out with fireballs and once I get a good opening, go in for the grab while Bowser on the other hand, I have to go offensive and take risks due to him not flinching to fireball till 55-60% and thanks to new grab buff, I can't shield as often.

The episode was slightly slow for me but I enjoyed it nonetheless. Its amazing to see it back up and the animator said he'll speed things up at the same rate as he did the original episodes. I can't wait till he releases more.

 

[TriTails]

I like to space them out with SHFF B-airs because the chances of you missing on their fat bodies are pretty much near zero.

It's also quite fast and trades excellently.

I really hate DK's U-tilt and D-tilt tho.

 

[Yonder]

Anyone know which one is more effective on Luigi, Dk's "Banana Slamma" or Bowser's "Showtime,?"(throw to uair terms for both characters)
I'm inclined to say DKs but I could be wrong.

 

[meleebrawler]

Anyone know which one is more effective on Luigi, Dk's "Banana Slamma" or Bowser's "Showtime,?"(throw to uair terms for both characters)
I'm inclined to say DKs but I could be wrong.

Bowser's is always better because it actually combos at kill percents and isn't affected as much by rage.

 

[TriTails]

Anyone know which one is more effective on Luigi, Dk's "Banana Slamma" or Bowser's "Showtime,?"(throw to uair terms for both characters)
I'm inclined to say DKs but I could be wrong.

Bowser's Bowser Bop.

|HUGE GAP|

DK's Ding Dong.

Ding Dong works best on fast-fallers, and even then, the percents of it being true confirm is tight. Luigi's a floaty, it's hell for DK to kill Luigi with suhc a tight window. The confirm also gets ROTFL'd hard by rage.

Bowser Bop is much less lenient on percentage and rage, which makes it better almost instantly. It kills slightly later IIRC, but working 'till 120%? I'll take that.

The fact Bowser's pivot grab has ******** range is also a huge plus. Try it sometime. People just kind of teleport to Bowser's hand.

 

[Mileo279]

Can anyone please leave tips for jump less cyclone I can't do it I get so many times of I could do I could gimp them but can't please can you give me some tips and train methods

 

[Süberr]

Can anyone please leave tips for jump less cyclone I can't do it I get so many times of I could do I could gimp them but can't please can you give me some tips and train methods

Can you be more clear with your question? I don't know if you are trying to get advice on actually doing the tornado gimp or tips on how to do it successfully.



On another note, it has come to me that I am not using Luigis abilities to it's full extent. Luigi can kill really early in certain situations. For example, killing with low or high forward smash can really kill early. Even in situation where UP B will not kill because of low damage. I plan on testing how early a fully charged low f smash will kill on the edge. I am trying this because I had a situation where I broke a Villagers shield and he was at 50% (I had no rage) and Shoryuken did not kill. Now pushing him to the edge of the stage and hitting him with an fully charged low f smash might have killed him because of the angle it sends. Not only in shield break scenarios but in regular fighting as well. Mixing up what angle you send someone can cause them to DI the wrong way netting a early kill. High f smash kills earlier than regular and is more difficult to DI. It also is good on stages with low ceilings.

I really need to start using low and high f smash more because in tourney these situations are crucial.

 

[Yonder]

Can you be more clear with your question? I don't know if you are trying to get advice on actually doing the tornado gimp or tips on how to do it successfully.



On another note, it has come to me that I am not using Luigis abilities to it's full extent. Luigi can kill really early in certain situations. For example, killing with low or high forward smash can really kill early. Even in situation where UP B will not kill because of low damage. I plan on testing how early a fully charged low f smash will kill on the edge. I am trying this because I had a situation where I broke a Villagers shield and he was at 50% (I had no rage) and Shoryuken did not kill. Now pushing him to the edge of the stage and hitting him with an fully charged low f smash might have killed him because of the angle it sends. Not only in shield break scenarios but in regular fighting as well. Mixing up what angle you send someone can cause them to DI the wrong way netting a early kill. High f smash kills earlier than regular and is more difficult to DI. It also is good on stages with low ceilings.

I really need to start using low and high f smash more because in tourney these situations are crucial.

I think he's asking for help on doing a jumpless cyclone for gimping people. I wish I could do one too, I always feel held back because I can't do it. I still sometimes go offstage with cyclone...only to raise them back up, but I tack on a bit more damage anyways.

I like F smash, I tend to use the normal version though because of the extra range. I try to use up tilted version on the edge though. Anyone remember how amazing Luigi's f smash was in Brawl?

Edit: Here's a video about Concon and his mashing for cyclone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMJAK4Z5zPo

Points of interest: - It involves your triceps, not just your thumb. [Sigh, I work out a lot too...]
-Concon only uses 1 button, the B button.
-Concon mashes 17 times a second estimated. Dang.

 

[Mileo279]

I think he's asking for help on doing a jumpless cyclone for gimping people. I wish I could do one too, I always feel held back because I can't do it. I still sometimes go offstage with cyclone...only to raise them back up, but I tack on a bit more damage anyways.

I like F smash, I tend to use the normal version though because of the extra range. I try to use up tilted version on the edge though. Anyone remember how amazing Luigi's f smash was in Brawl?

Edit: Here's a video about Concon and his mashing for cyclone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMJAK4Z5zPo

Points of interest: - It involves your triceps, not just your thumb. [Sigh, I work out a lot too...]
-Concon only uses 1 button, the B button.
-Concon mashes 17 times a second estimated. Dang.

Yeah that's what I was asking how do I do it I try mash as hard as I can but never gain it would help with recovering and gimps like how do y'all train to be able to do it

 

[G. Stache]

Can anyone please leave tips for jump less cyclone I can't do it I get so many times of I could do I could gimp them but can't please can you give me some tips and train methods

Best way I've found is using your index finger and tensing your arm muscles to the point where you have a mini spasm with your arm and it makes your index finger practically vibrate. Works wonders if you can do it consistently. I still can't really recover with it, but edge guarding close to the edge is a lot more bearable. Other options include using the other buttons for help (y button, for instance, isn't used much by most people and is free to bind an extra special button), and binding specials to the c stick (not very practical though since you want c stick for your smashes). Tips aside, I honestly think that this is the future of Luigi's advancement in the meta. cyclone gimping adds a kill option that's very potent on most of the smash 4 crew. Not saying that you can't be a good Luigi without this tech, but it improves your game soooo much. Especially when a lot of smash 4 players aren't very optimal when it comes to edge guarding.

 

[Xephilon]

I don't know about you guys, but I feel slightly betrayed by Nintendo when it comes to character balancing. I already got over the nerf long ago, that's fine. I'm just mad that:
-Sheik (Dthrow -> Uair/Up B)
-ZSS (Dsmash/Uair/Stun gun -> Up B)
-Ryu (Utilt/Dtil -> TSK)
-Bowser (Uthrow -> Uair)
-Donkey Kong (Throw -> Uair)
-Little Mac (Dtilt -> KO Punch)
-MetaKnight (Uair/Dash attack -> Up B)
-Marth/Lucina (Jab1 -> Fsmash)
-Ness (PK Fire -> Smash attack/Bthrow)
-ROB (Dthrow -> Uair)
-Pikachu (FF Fair -> Usmash)
-Fox (Nair/Dair -> Usmash)
-Cloud (Late Dair -> Side B/Down B)

All have kill confirms BUT GOD FORBID LUIGI HAS HIS OWN KILL CONFIRM AND DECENT PROJECTILE. NERF THAT SH**!

Thanks Sakurai.

/rant

 

[G. Stache]

I don't know about you guys, but I feel slightly betrayed by Nintendo when it comes to character balancing. I already got over the nerf long ago, that's fine. I'm just mad that:
-Sheik (Dthrow -> Uair/Up B)
-ZSS (Dsmash/Uair/Stun gun -> Up B)
-Ryu (Utilt/Dtil -> TSK)
-Bowser (Uthrow -> Uair)
-Donkey Kong (Throw -> Uair)
-Little Mac (Dtilt -> KO Punch)
-MetaKnight (Uair/Dash attack -> Up B)
-Marth/Lucina (Jab1 -> Fsmash)
-Ness (PK Fire -> Smash attack/Bthrow)
-ROB (Dthrow -> Uair)
-Pikachu (FF Fair -> Usmash)
-Fox (Nair/Dair -> Usmash)
-Cloud (Late Dair -> Side B/Down B)

All have kill confirms BUT GOD FORBID LUIGI HAS HIS OWN KILL CONFIRM AND DECENT PROJECTILE. NERF THAT SH**!

Thanks Sakurai.

/rant

I feel for you, but keep in mind that some of these are needed to keep the character an actual threat (the Ding Dong, Bowser's Showtime combo, and to a point Ryu since shoryuken is kind of his thing). Another portion is either not confirmed, unsafe to throw out, or on a bad character (Marcina, ROB, Ness, Little Mac, and I don't know if Fox's aerials are all that safe on shield). The only ones that are dumb are the ones that are as overtuned as Luigi's old hoo hah or are simply just silly to have on the character in general (Sheik, ZSS, MK and Ryu). I'm putting my trust in Nintendo that they see some of these other cancerous set ups and get rid of them in the next patch. They helped out with the funding for G3, so I'm guessing that they'll have a bit of an idea to balance smash 4 to suit everyone's needs. Only time will tell. In the meantime: I fully understand the salt (in what world should sheik be allowed to kill below 150% with that neutral game?), but keep in mind that our kill confirm was more cancerous than 90% of the set ups and confirms listed here.

 

[Xephilon]

I know, some aren't exactly safe but they better than what we have at the moment. And trust me, Ryu's is as cancerous as ours if not, more. While ours is after 100% and could've been smash DI-ed (hard but possible). Ryu's just tilt then input at 80-90%, done.

Just that I got salty when I came to this realization xD But that only lasted like 10 mins, and got over it again.

P.S. I'ma post some games of mine soon here, see if you guys would like to watch it and criticize my style/see what I do wrong.

 

[Xephilon]

Vs Ganondorf: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMW4oSQ0nAg

Vs Captain Falcon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OyAFupiipg

Two matches that basically went my way all through out. The next ones will be more challenging ones.

 

[Green L]

I don't know about you guys, but I feel slightly betrayed by Nintendo when it comes to character balancing. I already got over the nerf long ago, that's fine. I'm just mad that:
-Sheik (Dthrow -> Uair/Up B)
-ZSS (Dsmash/Uair/Stun gun -> Up B)
-Ryu (Utilt/Dtil -> TSK)
-Bowser (Uthrow -> Uair)
-Donkey Kong (Throw -> Uair)
-Little Mac (Dtilt -> KO Punch)
-MetaKnight (Uair/Dash attack -> Up B)
-Marth/Lucina (Jab1 -> Fsmash)
-Ness (PK Fire -> Smash attack/Bthrow)
-ROB (Dthrow -> Uair)
-Pikachu (FF Fair -> Usmash)
-Fox (Nair/Dair -> Usmash)
-Cloud (Late Dair -> Side B/Down B)

All have kill confirms BUT GOD FORBID LUIGI HAS HIS OWN KILL CONFIRM AND DECENT PROJECTILE. NERF THAT SH**!

Thanks Sakurai.

/rant

I feel you dude but about half of those I don't mind that much like Fox's Nair to Upsmash. It reminds me that Smash 4 is more than just grab followups even though most of the time "combos" do come from a grab. But some of these I do agree that are BS like Donkey Kong's Ding Dong. That's more powerful than any other of Luigi's combos pre patch.

but keep in mind that our kill confirm was more cancerous than 90% of the set ups and confirms listed here.

That's debatable. I find bowser's new Bow Wow combo to be even more absurd. Man, I wish developers could come up with more unique ways for characters to get kill confirms without grabs. Its getting stale for me when I fight a Donkey Kong, Boswer, Mario, and many other characters' when their gameplan is to just fish for grabs. Besides, you're a luigi main. Don't you know Luigi used to be able to do more than just down throw<cyclone?

I feel for you, but keep in mind that some of these are needed to keep the character an actual threat (the Ding Dong, Bowser's Showtime combo, and to a point Ryu since shoryuken is kind of his thing).

If this is true, that this one combo keeps them a relevant character, shouldn't that make Dk and Bowser a one trick pony? As for Ryu, he's capable of more than just down tilt to up b

 

[G. Stache]

I feel you dude but about half of those I don't mind that much like Fox's Nair to Upsmash. It reminds me that Smash 4 is more than just grab followups even though most of the time "combos" do come from a grab. But some of these I do agree that are BS like Donkey Kong's Ding Dong. That's more powerful than any other of Luigi's combos pre patch.

That's debatable. I find bowser's new Bow Wow combo to be even more absurd. Man, I wish developers could come up with more unique ways for characters to get kill confirms without grabs. Its getting stale for me when I fight a Donkey Kong, Boswer, Mario, and many other characters' when their gameplan is to just fish for grabs. Besides, you're a luigi main. Don't you know Luigi used to be able to do more than just down throw<cyclone?

If this is true, that this one combo keeps them a relevant character, shouldn't that make Dk and Bowser a one trick pony? As for Ryu, he's capable of more than just down tilt to up b

To be fair, the whole point of superheavies is: 'I'm a huge arse hurtbox with all these problems, but I kill super early'. That's why I don't mind Bowser's Showtime. He has all these things that give him an uphill battle, but at least he's finally got kill power. I also think the devs put the kill confirms on grabs is because it's a simple way to make opponents fear you at boxing range (also, Bowser finally has a great use for his Marth-Ranged pivot grab). Also, yes, I'm well aware of Luigi's old kill confirms (and he fact that he still presumably has some off soft Nair. But most of kills came off d throw, so it's essentially one kill confirm with many masks. Finally, yes, it's the grab confirms of Bowser and DK that keep them a relevant threat. Of course they have other attributes, but easy kills off grabs is the main reason to use them. Also, when I said that Ryu having his shoryuken being confirmed and that strong was kinda alright in a certain sense, I meant that it Nintendo wanted to make him accurate to his respective game. I don't play street fighter, but when I think of Ryu, I think of Shoryuken. I still think it's a dumb thing to have, don't get me wrong.

 

[Green L]

To be fair, the whole point of superheavies is: 'I'm a huge arse hurtbox with all these problems, but I kill super early'. That's why I don't mind Bowser's Showtime. He has all these things that give him an uphill battle, but at least he's finally got kill power

I'm pretty sure bowser already had tons of ko power. All of his smashes and aerials are powerful and does a lot of damage per hit. Does anyone remember that grabs are useful for all characters whether they have followups or not? They're for stage positioning and control. I don't mind Ryu's kill confirms because its unique and one of the rare ones that don't revolve around grabs and technically, all melee attacks are supposed to be feared at "boxing range".

 

[Süberr]

Vs Ganondorf: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMW4oSQ0nAg

Vs Captain Falcon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OyAFupiipg

Two matches that basically went my way all through out. The next ones will be more challenging ones.

OoooH that 0-93% is niceeee.

I really need to start using tilts more..

Uair to bair is nice too.

 

[G. Stache]

I'm pretty sure bowser already had tons of ko power. All of his smashes and aerials are powerful and does a lot of damage per hit. Does anyone remember that grabs are useful for all characters whether they have followups or not? They're for stage positioning and control. I don't mind Ryu's kill confirms because its unique and one of the rare ones that don't revolve around grabs and technically, all melee attacks are supposed to be feared at "boxing range".

Yes, Bowser did have an extremely strong f smash and u smash, and his Uair and Bair were still scary in the right situations. But he had no confirm. He had to essentially read the opponent hard to the point where Sheik killed earlier than Bowser on average (and she was much more consistent). Also, yes, throws are good for positioning. I never said that Bowser didn't have uses for his throws, but now he has a great use for one that also kills consistently. His grab reward was rather mediocre before. Now it's very good. Problem I have with your Ryu statement is that ou make it sound like if it's different from grab follow ups, it's fine. I don't really care how different it is or how hard it is to perform. Players are showing that it's way overtuned at top level. Anything that's overtuned should be toned down. I'm not advocating for any mega nerfs. But let's be reasonable: shoryuken is downright silly. Also, yes, for the most part melee attacks are considered boxing range. But grabs on average are rather quick and easier to put combos onto. When the devs are balancing all 58 characters, they want to balance things simply but meaningfully. Grab combos to them are a simple way to do just that

 

[Xephilon]

OoooH that 0-93% is niceeee.

I really need to start using tilts more..

Uair to bair is nice too.

Yeah, Luigi Utilts are amazing. I use them a lot as an anti-air.

Just letting you know, that combo is not exactly true. After Utilt, Ganondorf has a chance to jump out. If he does, its a chase, if he doesn't, it turns into that combo.

 

[G. Stache]

Vs Ganondorf: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMW4oSQ0nAg

Vs Captain Falcon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OyAFupiipg

Two matches that basically went my way all through out. The next ones will be more challenging ones.

Very great Luigi play from you. But I wasn't too confident of your opponents' skill. Regardless, might I recommend more SH Dairs once you get closer to the opponent. It's a good thing to hit shield with since it gives you options on what to do after (Bair/Fair or a retreating Nair), it can lead into Fair or Bair at low percentages, and it can be a quick punish to any misplaced attacks. I saw Boss using it a bit, so I've adapted using it and it's been working wonders whenever I get the chance to close in. Also, as we should all know, the sweetspot for up b comes out frame 6. Coincidentally, d smash comes out frame 6 too. It's rather risky, but keep in mind that if you can punish with d smash, you can most likely punish with up b. Just something to think about. Other than that, your combos are on point and I saw some very smart use if U tilt (a tilt that I previously thought worthless). Overall, very nice Luigi play. I'd be interested to see more videos of this kind of thing.

 

[Xephilon]

I use SH Dair depending on the MU and how the opponent plays. In those videos, opponents were being predictable and/or reckless (and I know the MU all too well), meaning I dont have to be as safe with my spacing, just give a very good punish with my grabs. Like I said, it went my way all through out the match so its more of a combo exhibition/Luigi tools. On real fights, I rely a lot on SH Fair/Dair or RAR Bair to space out.

I'll post later two matches where I had a tough time. one against a Sheik (if my friend sends it to me today) and one vs a Marth that knows how to space (if I consider it to be good once I see it again). Thank you for the feedback.

 

[SpiceGC]

I have a HUGE problem with sticking to mains... personally I am a big fan of Luigi's ariels and grab combos, even after the patch. But for some reason I can not really stick to the character because of his personality. Don't get me wrong I enjoy his personality in the Mario games, but in a fighting game he is a little to goofy for my taste. So I was wondering if anybody had any suggestions for characters with good grab and ariel combos who has a cool design and personality (also if they were also featured in melee that would be great it doesn't matter how different the characters may be as long as they are in both I am good).

 

[Xephilon]

Good grab combo characters:
Sheik, Mario, Kirby, Roy, Falco, ROB, ZSS, Pikachu...There's plenty, just keep experimenting.

Also guys, another tournament happened yesterday. Got 4th out of 35 players, not bad I guess. Lost to the #5 player in the region but it was close, I did a mis-input when we were both at kill percents and I died...I did a dashattack...And then on Loser's semis I lost to a Bowser Jr./Sonic player who was REALLY good. I eliminated him in winners by little and then he eliminated me in losers.

My next objective is to master button mashing. I'll keep you guys updated, the next tourney will be on the 5th and 12th of Feb.

 

[FUEGO!]

Points of interest: - It involves your triceps, not just your thumb.

Holy cow that explains why I can do it. My triceps are insane because of playing Percussion and Drums all through school.

 

[Yonder]

Holy cow that explains why I can do it. My triceps are insane because of playing Percussion and Drums all through school.

Mine are pretty OK too, I like to think , I hit the gym a lot. I should post my tricep day workouts, lots of supersets...for Luigi cyclone science!

 

[meleebrawler]

Mine are pretty OK too, I like to think , I hit the gym a lot. I should post my tricep day workouts, lots of supersets...for Luigi cyclone science!

Or you could just play Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam and practice with Luigi's Bros. Attacks.

 

[Xephilon]

Y Yonder Arm size? I think mine was 14" or 14.5" back in november. I stopped going to the gym for a while but I'm getting back into it now.

As for the cyclone thing, I can't keep the shaking for more than a few seconds...hurts like a b****

 

[Ghazis]

Hey guys, I was wondering do you have any tips for vs Ness? Every local I go to I get eliminated by Ness, Rosa or any character that can wall me out easily, it feels like any time I get in they use 1 move run across stage and I have trouble getting in again.. Yoshi is another character I struggle vs but I know I can win that match up eventually

 

[FUEGO!]

Or you could just play Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam and practice with Luigi's Bros. Attacks.

I like to cite Paper Mario for my success in mash practice. The action commands make you mash very often, it's where I think most of my recent practice came from when I got it on the VC for my WiiU.

 

[meleebrawler]

I like to cite Paper Mario for my success in mash practice. The action commands make you mash very often, it's where I think most of my recent practice came from when I got it on the VC for my WiiU.

Oh, so it's no coincidence that Trio Kite is the biggest mash marathon this side of Whomp Dominoes?

The button mashing moves in Paper aren't really hard (though Supernova in TTYD can test you), it's the stick flicking that tends to get me.

 

[ThunderSt0rm]

I liked practicing my mash with Fire Bros attack in Superstar Saga when I went back to replay it not too long ago.

 

[Yonder]

So, Luigi clocks in at 16th, middle tier [D] on the Backroom's Smash 4 tier list. Thoughts?

The placement is alright, I'd switch him and Yoshi [15th] who is in C tier with Falcon. I'd also make the D and C tiers B tier. I just don't see Luigi as a middle tier, he's lower high.

 

[FUEGO!]

So, Luigi clocks in at 16th, middle tier [D] on the Backroom's Smash 4 tier list. Thoughts?

The placement is alright, I'd switch him and Yoshi [15th] who is in C tier with Falcon. I'd also make the D and C tiers B tier. I just don't see Luigi as a middle tier, he's lower high.

My thoughts exactly, I was thinking if anything he should be between Cap and Yoshi in their "C" tier

 

[FUEGO!]

Oh, so it's no coincidence that Trio Kite is the biggest mash marathon this side of Whomp Dominoes?

The button mashing moves in Paper aren't really hard (though Supernova in TTYD can test you), it's the stick flicking that tends to get me.

It's not so much about them being hard, but it's about the fact of how often you are required to mash in those games. Just makes going turbo mode easier.

EDIT: I'm sorry for the Double post, But why the hell can't you delete posts anymore?

 

[Xephilon]

Hey guys, I was wondering do you have any tips for vs Ness? Every local I go to I get eliminated by Ness, Rosa or any character that can wall me out easily, it feels like any time I get in they use 1 move run across stage and I have trouble getting in again.. Yoshi is another character I struggle vs but I know I can win that match up eventually

Well Rosa is a bad MU for Luigi. What you want to do is play safe, knock Luma off stage with any aerial or dash attack and then focus on Rosa. If you can't do that, then make your combos short and sweet to avoid getting hit by Luma.

For Ness, perfect shielding and cyclone gimping are a must. If you learn these, you'll be fine. Use fireballs very sparingly and be careful of his frame 5 Nair. Every Ness has a bad habit, EVERY Ness. Its your job to find it.

Yoshi is like a 50/50, again, short and sweet combos.

As for struggling to get in, you've got to get better at three things: Reads, Pivot grabbing and Perfect Shielding.
If you know they roll away or use a certain move or you think they gonna do X thing, go for the read and punish.
If they roll towards you, you Pivot grab them.
If they have a tendency of using projectiles, perfect shield them and slowly approach them. You'll get better over time.

Hope this helps a bit.

 

[Ghazis]

Well Rosa is a bad MU for Luigi. What you want to do is play safe, knock Luma off stage with any aerial or dash attack and then focus on Rosa. If you can't do that, then make your combos short and sweet to avoid getting hit by Luma.

For Ness, perfect shielding and cyclone gimping are a must. If you learn these, you'll be fine. Use fireballs very sparingly and be careful of his frame 5 Nair. Every Ness has a bad habit, EVERY Ness. Its your job to find it.

Yoshi is like a 50/50, again, short and sweet combos.

As for struggling to get in, you've got to get better at three things: Reads, Pivot grabbing and Perfect Shielding.
If you know they roll away or use a certain move or you think they gonna do X thing, go for the read and punish.
If they roll towards you, you Pivot grab them.
If they have a tendency of using projectiles, perfect shield them and slowly approach them. You'll get better over time.

Hope this helps a bit.

I don't struggle too hard vs rosa since my local rosa is a ness main lol.. But Ness gives me so many problems.. I have above average reads, I power shield a good amount and I'm working on the cyclone gimp

But vs ness I'd do so much work to rack up % .. Then I get pk fire, dthrow, fair/nair/uair and he's suddenly up in % and I get impatient and make bad choices .. plus his aerial movement is incredible and irritating at the same time .. I have alot to work on

 

[G. Stache]

I don't struggle too hard vs rosa since my local rosa is a ness main lol.. But Ness gives me so many problems.. I have above average reads, I power shield a good amount and I'm working on the cyclone gimp

But vs ness I'd do so much work to rack up % .. Then I get pk fire, dthrow, fair/nair/uair and he's suddenly up in % and I get impatient and make bad choices .. plus his aerial movement is incredible and irritating at the same time .. I have alot to work on

Everyone has trouble Match ups that they need to put extra time into. For instance, I actually struggle with Kirby even though it's an easy +2/+3 for us. Exploit what you can and adapt to the MU. It's a slow process and certainly doesn't happen overnight. Keep chipping away at the Ness MU is all I can say. I explained about it a bit in the Match up analysis thread if you want to look there

 

[Ghazis]

Everyone has trouble Match ups that they need to put extra time into. For instance, I actually struggle with Kirby even though it's an easy +2/+3 for us. Exploit what you can and adapt to the MU. It's a slow process and certainly doesn't happen overnight. Keep chipping away at the Ness MU is all I can say. I explained about it a bit in the Match up analysis thread if you want to look there

I think I'll do that thanks for the advice, I think it's just cause I feel like luigi has to always be on his A game for this match up that I dislike it so much