Dixie Kong's Barrel Of Support Spirits. Farewell Everyone, Thank You ALL For Making This Thread An Excellent Place For DK Fans!

[Justin Little]

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Seeing this makes me want to see a Switch port with DK themed DLC. Imagine having a Kremling themed pirate ship, dressing your monkey companions as the Kongs, or equipping the Coconut Gun and Peanut Popgun. Despite being really popular, I know this game seems divisive with even some hardcore RARE fans, but I would certainly jump in if that DLC were to happen.

 

[BirthNote]

Ok I didn't hear back from @Final Smash Gamer regarding what moves Dixie shares with Diddy, so I'll post the DKC2 retrospective. They start talking about Dixie at the 9:30 mark:

Apparently they're not sure if the prehensile ponytail is what led to Dixie's creation or if they decided to tweak this character to have a prehensile ponytail. A "Chicken or The Egg?" scenario, but what's clear is that she started as Diddette in the drafts, getting immediately retooled and growing into her own character in the very early stages of development. It seems she looked "ridiculous" as Female Diddy, so they overhauld her. Remember that Diddy was meant to be DK Jr. in his drafts, and he grew to become his own character during DKC1s development. Calling Dixie "Diddy with a ponytail" is like calling Diddy "DK Jr with a red hat"

 

[Deleted member]

Ok I didn't hear back from @Final Smash Gamer regarding what moves Dixie shares with Diddy, so I'll post the DKC2 retrospective. They start talking about Dixie at the 9:30 mark:

Apparently they're not sure if the prehensile ponytail is what led to Dixie's creation or if they decided to tweak this character to have a prehensile ponytail. A "Chicken or The Egg?" scenario, but what's clear is that she started as Diddette in the drafts, getting immediately retooled and growing into her own character in the very early stages of development. It seems she looked "ridiculous" as Female Diddy, so they overhauld her. Remember that Diddy was meant to be DK Jr. in his drafts, and he grew to become his own character during DKC1s development. Calling Dixie "Diddy with a ponytail" is like calling Diddy "DK Jr with a red hat"

Okay I admit they don't share as many moves as I initially thought, aside of maybe their running animations and their guns in Tropical Freeze if we have to grasp at straws.

I insist however that I'd still enjoy having Dixie as a pseudo-clone at best, given how Sakurai initially envisioned her as a tag partner, and also given the parallels of how she plays compared to him in her playable appearances.

 

[BirthNote]

Okay I admit they don't share as many moves as I initially thought, aside of maybe their running animations and their guns in Tropical Freeze if we have to grasp at straws.

I insist however that I'd still enjoy having Dixie as a pseudo-clone at best, given how Sakurai initially envisioned her as a tag partner, and also given the parallels of how she plays compared to him in her playable appearances.

No hard feelings, just wanted an open dialogue. I ran through the games again and it turns out the popguns are the only identical moves, which surprised me cuz I thought I'd see more overlaps, especially with basic stuff. All in all, it's cool. Have a good one.

EDIT: Also when they hold barrels in Tropical Freeze

 

[Handy Man]

No hard feelings, just wanted an open dialogue. I ran through the games again and it turns out the popguns are the only identical moves, which surprised me cuz I thought I'd see more overlaps, especially with basic stuff. All in all, it's cool. Have a good one

This is why I constantly get frustrated by how many people think that Dixie should be an echo of Diddy. If anyone sat down and ever played DKC2, DKC3, or Tropical Freeze, they can clearly see that Diddy and Dixie share no moves or animations whatsoever. I remember a few people back during the Smash 4 days would say that King K. Rool would just be a Bowser clone, but if you played any DK game, you’ll know that King K. Rool doesn’t use his claws to attack at all and only breathes fire in Jungle Climber. If Dixie ever got into Smash, a lot of people would claim she’s “iconic and should have always been there”, pretending that the clone idea never happened, just like people did with King K. Rool when he got in. Revisionism is annoying.

 

[BirthNote]

This is why I constantly get frustrated by how many people think that Dixie should be an echo of Diddy. If anyone sat down and ever played DKC2, DKC3, or Tropical Freeze, they can clearly see that Diddy and Dixie share no moves or animations whatsoever. I remember a few people back during the Smash 4 days would say that King K. Rool would just be a Bowser clone, but if you played any DK game, you’ll know that King K. Rool doesn’t use his claws to attack at all and only breathes fire in Jungle Climber. If Dixie ever got into Smash, a lot of people would claim she’s “iconic and should have always been there”, pretending that the clone idea never happened, just like people did with King K. Rool when he got in. Revisionism is annoying.

Seriously, THIS is my frustration as well! The problem is people take a split second to look at them and assume they're just palette swaps. All it takes is a quick rundown of their animations to break that mindset. They don't run, walk, stand or move the same and that's just the basics. Even their zipline animations from DKCTF are different. I really wanna make a diagram that shows all their in-game animations, attacks, etc. It'll shut down the Diddy in Drag mindset for good.

I've seen the revisions so many times it's annoying as well. So many people say "X can't get in because of Y", and when they're proven wrong? "I just KNEW X would make it in, anyone who doubted is an idiot!" Like it's ok to be wrong, just admit it and grow as a person.

 

[Justin Little]

I don't know how anybody can look at Dixie and her hair and think "Yeah, she shouldn't use that. Make her Diddy." And before someone brings up C. Falcon and Snake's useless guns, they would have to actually animate her hair. Might as well put that animation to good use and actually incorporate her most unique attribute into her moveset.

That's another thing, no one in Smash uses their hair to attack, glide, and grab. How unique can you get?

Spoiler

And no, Bayonetta doesn't count. She uses her hair to summon demons from hell to attack. Big difference.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

A lot of the significant differences between the two become obvious once you've played both DKC2 and Tropical Freeze (and even to some degree playing the other games).

I always felt Diddy would be ideal of for Smash as a hit and run character. Emphasize that he's quick and his forward attacks hitting really hard at the cost of vertical movement and lacking any sort of strong grab. If he were to have an animal buddy based attack, Rambi would be perfect.

By contrast Dixie would be one that's slower, but is masterful a picking her spots via the helicopter spin and is remarkably effective when she gets close via her hair. Continuing that theme her animal buddy might be Squawks or Rattly to emphasis her verticality and precise jumps.

 

[SeashoreWar]

Back with an update to Donkey Kong Racing. It's time for the Jungle Beat kongs to get updated.

Everyone got a new drawing. Some got outfit changes. Some got color changes. But everyone is possessed by Ghastly King again.

Finally onto the DK crew!

Spoiler: Comparison

 

[TropicalBreeze]

I remember a few people back during the Smash 4 days would say that King K. Rool would just be a Bowser clone, but if you played any DK game, you’ll know that King K. Rool doesn’t use his claws to attack at all and only breathes fire in Jungle Climber.

Glad this image was able to peacefully retire, got pretty sick of posting it every time someone made that argument.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I think there's just a general tendency by non-fans of the DKC series to assume it has a greater resemblance to the Mario series than it actually does. Hence the belief about Dixie being a semi-clone to Diddy like early Luigi was to Mario or the silly notion of K Rool in any way being similar to Bowser in playstyle. That's on top of the general lack of understanding about the depth of movement with hop and bop platformer characters anyway.

 

[InASnowBoundLand]

Back with an update to Donkey Kong Racing. It's time for the Jungle Beat kongs to get updated.

Everyone got a new drawing. Some got outfit changes. Some got color changes. But everyone is possessed by Ghastly King again.

Finally onto the DK crew!

Spoiler: Comparison

Oh hey, great job! I think it was a good choice to make them look more corrupted. I think that's how they're most remembered. I like the feathers and the changes to the belt to Ghastly King especially!

Sumo's Kong outfit is very interesting. That's the kind of look you don't take out on a windy day, but very interesting.

I will post it on Friday, just have a few things to get to!

 

[Gorgonzales]

Glad this image was able to peacefully retire, got pretty sick of posting it every time someone made that argument.
View attachment 306708

That's a great way to show how ridiculous it would be to have K Rool as a Bowser clone.
It's both hilarious and terrifying.

 

[SeashoreWar]

Oh hey, great job! I think it was a good choice to make them look more corrupted. I think that's how they're most remembered. I like the feathers and the changes to the belt to Ghastly King especially!

Sumo's Kong outfit is very interesting. That's the kind of look you don't take out on a windy day, but very interesting.

I will post it on Friday, just have a few things to get to!

Thanks! Lol you don't wanna be behind Sumo in a race either.

 

[BirthNote]

Back with an update to Donkey Kong Racing. It's time for the Jungle Beat kongs to get updated.

Everyone got a new drawing. Some got outfit changes. Some got color changes. But everyone is possessed by Ghastly King again.

Finally onto the DK crew!

Spoiler: Comparison

Good work! The Jungle Beat Kongs look more paranormal now, and I especially like Ghastly's look

 

[Mushroomguy12]

DK Toys

#DixieKong, #DiddyKong, & #DonkeyKong toys by @xalabaiastore (Brazil). https://t.co/m3EoF4rSve pic.twitter.com/NJLq2eGesq

— Dixie Kong for Smash (@DixieforSmash) March 11, 2021

 

[SeashoreWar]

Good work! The Jungle Beat Kongs look more paranormal now, and I especially like Ghastly's look

Thanks! I really do like how Ghastly turned out although Ninja might be my favorite!

 

[BirthNote]

Hey, what if for a Final Smash, Dixie's joined by Tiny, Chunky and Kiddy to beat the hell out of her target? They're all family after all; Tiny and Dixie are sisters, and Chunky and his brother are Dixie's cousins. Basically, they jump whoever you use it on, and if you use it on up to 4 opponents simultaneously, each Kong personally beats down 1 of the 4. It'll be a Cinematic Final Smash; yeah there's a ton already, but it's a good way to bring back some forgotten Kongs for a sec.

 

[Deleted member]

I guess it was already suggested earlier, but:

Dixie's Final Smash idea. #SuperNES #NintendoSwitchOnline #NintendoSwitch pic.twitter.com/dG5aTTwJSi

— Buy Metroid Prime Remastered (@FinalSmashGamer) December 30, 2020

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I wouldn't be averse to an animal buddy combination attack with the affected fighter/s knocked over by Rambi, shot by a web from Squitter, picked up by Squawks to be dropped in water, before getting hit by Enguarde.

 

[Arcadenik]

I insist however that I'd still enjoy having Dixie as a pseudo-clone at best, given how Sakurai initially envisioned her as a tag partner, and also given the parallels of how she plays compared to him in her playable appearances.

About Dixie Kong being planned to be Diddy Kong’s tag team partner in Brawl... what if she was scrapped for the same reason Rex was scrapped and Pyra / Mythra got in instead?

 

[GAINAX]

Personally, I think Dixie's guitar would make for a good final smash. Similar to the instrument attacks in DK64.

 

[Diddy Kong]

About Dixie Kong being planned to be Diddy Kong’s tag team partner in Brawl... what if she was scrapped for the same reason Rex was scrapped and Pyra / Mythra got in instead?

Am guessing Pyra and Mythra are just about the closest in concept of what a Diddy and Dixie tagteam would look like. Except for the extreme polarity in between the characters, and them sharing their normals. Sure Dixie would borrow some assets from Diddy, but the main reason I think she's absent untill this day is that she was planned to be much more. Otherwise she would've probably been an Echo Fighter, and she isn't.

 

[BirthNote]

Or do you simply pull her from DKC2/3?

We can't leave Tropical Freeze out the mix! There's at least 3 abilities we can mine for ideas, plus those Jungle Beat inspired beatdowns means punching, kicking and slapping is fair game.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Playing both Crash 4 on Switch and seeing the discussion about Bowser's Fury being a refreshing take on Mario has had me thinking about a quesiton we've often discussed. Let's say DK does indeed go to 3D, what form should it take? The way I see we have five paths, with potential overlap:

The Crash Bandicoot Path (Corridor 3D)
Pros: Very easy to translate the tight platforming focus of the 2D games and the magnificent set pieces the Country games are so good at.
Cons: More limited means for level exploration & trickier to fully give the title a sense of big scope for its second 3D outing.

Donkey Kong 64 Path (Sandbox Redux)
Pros: Excellent chance to sand over the rough edges of DK 64 & give the likes of Dixie a 3D space to work in while experimenting with Kong movements.
Cons: Less emphasis on the DKC's platforming strengths & potential scrutiny for how it measures up to the likes of Odyssey.

Super Mario 3D World Path (2D Levels in 3D)
Pros: Most ideal method for introducing DKC co-op in a 3D space & lets the Kongs be differentiated just enough in the abilities to make them unique.
Cons: If built for multiplayer, platforming would be less precise & set pieces somewhat compromised to allow several players at once.

Mario Galaxy Path (A Linear/Non-linear Hybrid)
Pros: A safe way of getting core DKC gameplay while experimenting with more open 3D settings for some levels.
Cons: The lack of outright focus on either type of aforementioned level type could be a turnoff to some.

Bowser's Fury (Open World DK)
Pros: Would be wholly uncharted territory for Donkey Kong & opens up the most options for Kong combat & abilities.
Cons: Potential risk for a currently strong but not mega franchise (sales wise) & might limit the number of playable Kongs and/or focused platforming.

 

[BirthNote]

Playing both Crash 4 on Switch and seeing the discussion about Bowser's Fury being a refreshing take on Mario has had me thinking about a quesiton we've often discussed. Let's say DK does indeed go to 3D, what form should it take? The way I see we have five paths, with potential overlap:

The Crash Bandicoot Path (Corridor 3D)
Pros: Very easy to translate the tight platforming focus of the 2D games and the magnificent set pieces the Country games are so good at.
Cons: More limited means for level exploration & trickier to fully give the title a sense of big scope for its second 3D outing.

Donkey Kong 64 Path (Sandbox Redux)
Pros: Excellent chance to sand over the rough edges of DK 64 & give the likes of Dixie a 3D space to work in while experimenting with Kong movements.
Cons: Less emphasis on the DKC's platforming strengths & potential scrutiny for how it measures up to the likes of Odyssey.

Super Mario 3D World Path (2D Levels in 3D)
Pros: Most ideal method for introducing DKC co-op in a 3D space & lets the Kongs be differentiated just enough in the abilities to make them unique.
Cons: If built for multiplayer, platforming would be less precise & set pieces somewhat compromised to allow several players at once.

Mario Galaxy Path (A Linear/Non-linear Hybrid)
Pros: A safe way of getting core DKC gameplay while experimenting with more open 3D settings for some levels.
Cons: The lack of outright focus on either type of aforementioned level type could be a turnoff to some.

Bowser's Fury (Open World DK)
Pros: Would be wholly uncharted territory for Donkey Kong & opens up the most options for Kong combat & abilities.
Cons: Potential risk for a currently strong but not mega franchise (sales wise) & might limit the number of playable Kongs and/or focused platforming.

I'm torn; the best I can do is narrow down my picks because these are VERY good options:

Crash Bandicoot Path: I would love this. DKC inspired Crash Bandicoot, and to see DK take this on would be exciting. Imagine all the gameplay differences they could have with Kong-specific levels and sections, plus the minecart stages would be phenomenal. Throw in the action-packed setpieces of Retro's games and this would be an outstanding game.

Super Mario 3D World Path: Sackboy A Big Adventure has made me very excited for these types of games. I would jump at the chance to play a game where each player is a different Kong who has their own set of moves in a streamlined button layout, much like how Smash has the same control scheme but different playstyles. Imagine all the teamwork combinations you could have with this; each Kong has their own unique flair that complements the rest in levels that prioritize co-op. The minecart levels will get retooled into something like this:

Sackboy: A Big Adventure BLOWING OFF STEAM 100% (All Level Stats,No Deaths,Orbs,Score,Prizes)

Sackboy: A Big Adventure is a 2020 platform game developed by Sumo Digital and published by Sony Interactive Entertainment for the PlayStation 5 and the Play...

youtu.be

It would be a game best enjoyed with others, which will amplify the fun. Plus the level of detail would be INCREDIBLE.

Mario Galaxy Path: Would absolutely adore it. Tight, streamlined platforming with jaw dropping setpieces; some levels are sandboxes, some are sidescrollers and others 3D Corridor platforming with a wide enough space to keep from being claustrophobic? YES.

Haven't played Bowser's Fury and I'm not crazy about an improved DK64, but that's just me.

 

[ZeroJanitor]

I think Donkey Kong could be good with levels more in the vein of like, a Sonic Adventure 2 level, or some of the more linear segments in Super Mario 64. It's a point-A-to-point-B path but isn't just a straight line, there's twists and turns and different elevations that take advantage of 3D space. I think it'd be fun to see how DKC physics work in levels like that.

 

[BirthNote]

That's a fairly strong moveset BirthNote. I think my overall preference for the Neutral B would another animal buddy (just just because Dixie's hair feels so ideal for basic and Smash attacks) but the complexity of the attack does have me considering that it could be worth keeping and assigning something like a Rambi Charge to the Forward Special instead.

Thanks. Looking back, I'd probably scrap the Down B and replace it with a tweaked version of her Side B, leaving that input free for a brand new idea. There's still a good handful of options: an Animal Buddy, Kiddy Kong, a vehicle from DKC3, something with bubblegum, a brand new hair idea, etc.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I always envisioned Dixie having a hair spin attack that works quite like the DKC2 enemy Cat O'Ninetails' main attack, a sweep which you can catch your opponents in and throw them into a direction of choice with no damage, but good knockback. I think it would suit Dixie well.

 

[Doc Monocle]

I always envisioned Dixie having a hair spin attack that works quite like the DKC2 enemy Cat O'Ninetails' main attack, a sweep which you can catch your opponents in and throw them into a direction of choice with no damage, but good knockback. I think it would suit Dixie well.

Way to tip the hat to an old Donkey Kong Country II friend. It is a creative idea for a command grab. The one bothersome point about it ,in my opinion, is that Dixie would then be borrowing an attack from an enemy. Would a hero in a crossover fighting game be well portrayed by stooping to the level of a generic hostile that harassed them with the attack in question?

 

[Ridley_Prime]

I mean Pac-Man uses enemies from his games for his smash attacks. This would only be for one move though, and I agree that the Cat O’ Ninetales whirlwind spin would fit Dixie for an outside the box kind of idea.

 

[Gorgonzales]

Way to tip the hat to an old Donkey Kong Country II friend. It is a creative idea for a command grab. The one bothersome point about it ,in my opinion, is that Dixie would then be borrowing an attack from an enemy. Would a hero in a crossover fighting game be well portrayed by stooping to the level of a generic hostile that harassed them with the attack in question?

I don't really see the problem if it's just one or two moves? Smash always takes creative liberties, and some characters take move inspiration from different sources. It's a nice callback imo.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I don't really see the problem if it's just one or two moves? Smash always takes creative liberties, and some characters take move inspiration from different sources. It's a nice callback imo.

I mean, up untill Smash 4, Spinning King was basically Dixie's Helicopter Spin, but on DK, done awkwardly. I could see the attack of the Cat O'Ninetails suit more reasonably on Dixie than even that.

It would be kind of funny tho, all Kongs having command grabs except for DK. He should get one too honestly.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I mean, up untill Smash 4, Spinning King was basically Dixie's Helicopter Spin, but on DK, done awkwardly. I could see the attack of the Cat O'Ninetails suit more reasonably on Dixie than even that.

It would be kind of funny tho, all Kongs having command grabs except for DK. He should get one too honestly.

You mean like how all the Rare characters have a bury move with the exception of Diddy?

 

[Diddy Kong]

You mean like how all the Rare characters have a bury move with the exception of Diddy?

This is a little more reasonable however ! How could one possibly picture Diddy burying people into the ground ? For Banjo, it's an actual move of his games right, and DK and King K.Rool are super heavyweights.

But Donkey Kong could do without the Headbutt I feel. It's the only move that really sticks out that I don't find fitting. I also would've given him a F Tilt more akin to Bowser and Wario instead of a slap. Down Air could be the jump attack punch animation from DKC Returns and Tropical Freeze. Side B could be a command grab or barrel throw, F tilt a wicked punch (that's faster and stronger too) and D Air the Retro DKC stomp, and I'd think he's golden.

Speaking of, I would reduce the size of his overall body except his limbs so he isn't as gigantic but retains his range. Right now he's the easiest to combo character and easiest character to intercept his recovery... That's bad. Up B should allow for some vertical distance by tapping B like Luigi's old Down B. Moves like F Air, D Air and N Air should get slight armor too I feel. He won't have disjointed attacks , so armor is the second best thing.

Diddy I wouldn't change too much, except his recovery maybe. Too easy to intercept, and is too risky with little reward. Although the barrel shenanigans and kamikaze attacks are fun, I'd want a more stable recovery like one with resemblance to R.O.B., or even Fox. Also allow him to shoot at least one Peanut from his Neutral B while doing this. A buff to his dash attack would be great too.

 

[Mariomaniac45213]

Playing both Crash 4 on Switch and seeing the discussion about Bowser's Fury being a refreshing take on Mario has had me thinking about a quesiton we've often discussed. Let's say DK does indeed go to 3D, what form should it take? The way I see we have five paths, with potential overlap:

The Crash Bandicoot Path (Corridor 3D)
Pros: Very easy to translate the tight platforming focus of the 2D games and the magnificent set pieces the Country games are so good at.
Cons: More limited means for level exploration & trickier to fully give the title a sense of big scope for its second 3D outing.

Donkey Kong 64 Path (Sandbox Redux)
Pros: Excellent chance to sand over the rough edges of DK 64 & give the likes of Dixie a 3D space to work in while experimenting with Kong movements.
Cons: Less emphasis on the DKC's platforming strengths & potential scrutiny for how it measures up to the likes of Odyssey.

Super Mario 3D World Path (2D Levels in 3D)
Pros: Most ideal method for introducing DKC co-op in a 3D space & lets the Kongs be differentiated just enough in the abilities to make them unique.
Cons: If built for multiplayer, platforming would be less precise & set pieces somewhat compromised to allow several players at once.

Mario Galaxy Path (A Linear/Non-linear Hybrid)
Pros: A safe way of getting core DKC gameplay while experimenting with more open 3D settings for some levels.
Cons: The lack of outright focus on either type of aforementioned level type could be a turnoff to some.

Bowser's Fury (Open World DK)
Pros: Would be wholly uncharted territory for Donkey Kong & opens up the most options for Kong combat & abilities.
Cons: Potential risk for a currently strong but not mega franchise (sales wise) & might limit the number of playable Kongs and/or focused platforming.

I will rank them in order I would want:

1. Crash 4 - Seems the most optimal way to bring DK into 3D properly IMO.

2. 3D World - 4 player multiplayer 3D DK with tight level design is also pretty great.

3. Bowsers Fury - Bowsers Fury was amazing and what I wanted Odyssey to be. So if DK followed that route I would be estatic.

4. Galaxy - Love the Galaxy games but Idk if I want this for DK. Jungle Beat was already a psuedo prototype for the Galaxy games anyway.

5. DK64 reboot - Huge meh from me.

Now here's a curveball for you what about a Sonic Adventure styled 3D DK game where each Kong got their own mini adventure with unique levels to each that catered to their own gameplay styles. So take what DK64 did with its 5 playable Kongs but apply it to a more linear level design.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Just remembered, you can DI the Cat O’ Ninetales attack, which you kinda have to on the Screech’s Sprint level to avoid dying to the spikes above. DI’ing a Dixie version of this move could lead into some interesting potential setups for her though.

 

[BirthNote]

Dixie using the Cat O' Nine Tails is one of the oldest ideas for her and it still works really well. A tornado that grabs, carries and throws at least 1 victim per use would be fun in Free For Alls.

 

[Dinoman96]

It's kinda funny to think that DK and Diddy both have a handful of extra moves in DK64 that could of been incorporated in their Smash movesets but they just...didn't.

Stuff like Chimpy Charge, Simian Spring, and that weird mid-air tail spinning move are stuff Diddy could of had somewhere. DK could of had the front kick attack, and also obviously the Coconut Gun, though tbf I can see why they're not in a rush to give DK some kind of projectile considering he's supposed to be a closed ranged brawler type.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

It's kinda funny to think that DK and Diddy both have a handful of extra moves in DK64 that could of been incorporated in their Smash movesets but they just...didn't.

Stuff like Chimpy Charge, Simian Spring, and that weird mid-air tail spinning move are stuff Diddy could of had somewhere. DK could of had the front kick attack, and also obviously the Coconut Gun, though tbf I can see why they're not in a rush to give DK some kind of projectile considering he's supposed to be a closed ranged brawler type.

Meanwhile DK's been using Dixie's classic hair twirl for his Up-B since 64, while Dixie's been absent all that time.....