The Last Nintendo All-Star: Dixie Kong's Barrel of Support Buddies. THANK YOU, ISABELLE!!!

~ Kiriko-Chan ~

~A Light Novel Protagonist~
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I appreciate the sentiment, but no need to add me.

In case you didn't know, it's Valk~!



Just donning a tongue-in-cheek halloween look, that is all.


On the bright side, Daisy being in Mario's roster means she might get some differentiation in some of her moves in future Smash entries (even if Mario's moveset had to be changed in drastic ways just so Dr. Mario would feel less redundant).
I'd wanna say same, but just look what happened to Dark Pit and Lucina - they didn't receive any modification whatsoever from last game, and IDK if I wanna gamble on Daisy like what fans of Dorf had to do for over three games until he got to use anything remotely characteristic to him.

Weird thing too because the only character gaining further modifications seems Dr.Mario, though since he's animated identical to Mario anyway, feels more seniority move done to him due being in Melee.
 
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I appreciate the sentiment, but no need to add me.

In case you didn't know, it's Valk~!



Just donning a tongue-in-cheek halloween look, that is all.




I'd wanna say same, but just look what happened to Dark Pit and Lucina - they didn't receive any modification whatsoever from last game, and IDK if I wanna gamble on Daisy like what fans of Dorf had to do for over three games until he got to use anything remotely characteristic to him.

Weird thing too because the only character gaining further modifications seems Dr.Mario, though since he's animated identical to Mario anyway, feels more seniority move done to him due being in Melee.
Well, the break between 4 and Ultimate was quite short compared to some other entries, so of course Pittoo and Lucina got squat, and they're both from franchises Sakurai favors the most.

In any case, it's all conjecture at this stage, so we don't know for sure what will be done for Echoes after this game.
 
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I know a lot of people want Dixie in whether she is a unique or echo fighter, but I'd prefer her to be sort of how Lucas is to Ness. She has her own moves that definitely can't translate well into Smash if she's an echo of Diddy (like all of her cool hair stuff). But at the same time maybe it's possible to make her totally 100% unique. I only beat DKC 1, so I'm not too well versed in what Dixie can do, but I do know that she has a lot of uniqueness and it'd kinda suck a little bit if she was just an echo.
 

ZeroJanitor

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one idea i had for a semi-clone style moveset: diddy's dash attack and neutral air are both cartwheels, which is based on his attack from the snes games. dixie's attack from those games is spinning horizontally and flicking her hair, so her dash attack and neutral air could be that. the latter would actually be kinda like dk's neutral air in function.
 

MoonlitIllusion

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one idea i had for a semi-clone style moveset: diddy's dash attack and neutral air are both cartwheels, which is based on his attack from the snes games. dixie's attack from those games is spinning horizontally and flicking her hair, so her dash attack and neutral air could be that. the latter would actually be kinda like dk's neutral air in function.
Considering that DK and Diddy both have their rolls as their dash attack, not having that for dixie would be crazy, as for her neutral air I could see it being kinda like marth's, with her spinning around and whipping her hair, kinda like this
 

Koopaul

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Another part of the problem that I'm not seeing mentioned is that Dixie is a particularly "Western" character, since she was created by Rare and even Tropical Freeze was technically western developed (Retro Studios)

So when we're talking about a japanese developer working from japan on a game for a company known for making decisions that highly benefit japan at the expense of the global market, it makes sense that DKC content is not even in Sakurai's mind.
Diddy wasn't even thought about for Melee when, to us, it would have been extremely obvious. By the time he happened in Brawl, that's when Diddy already had both presence from Mario Kart AND Mario Tennis... and I'm willing to bet the only reason that happened is because DK needed a partner in Double Dash, much like Waluigi only exists because of Wario needing a partner and Toadette only exists because of Toad needing a partner.
Only reason Dixie came close at that point was Sakurai probably looking at a reel of who Diddy was and noticing Dixie in the background and thought of that as a possible mechanic.

So really, this is how low Nintendo of Japan sees DKC characters. That's why it took several years, a decade or so long campaign, and a ballot for then to realize that K. Rool was a thing. It's why characters like Snake, Cloud and Bayonetta got in first... because all of them are characters that are japanese-created and staples of gaming to a japanese perspective.

Which means that unless Nintendo actually thinks and makes decisions globally FOR ONCE and considers what is significant to people outside their country of origin, I don't expect stuff like Dixie to just make it in without another high profile ballot grassroots campaign to make them notice.

This is also why you have things like Dark Samus being an echo and Isabelle being a semi-clone. Who made Dark Samus? A western developer. Isabelle? Japanese made. I'm ready to bet that Dark Samus was just tossed in because they could while Isabelle involved detailed demands from the AC devs.
I highly doubt this is true. There are lots of Nintendo games that show a lot of DKC love. But I will admit it's possible that Sakurai himself is unfamiliar with the DKC series or is disinterested in it. Not because it's a Western developed game (c'mon guys that's silly) but because he simply didn't really get into it. The man can't be a fan of every Nintendo game ever made.

You also have to consider that the best selling DK games never had Dixie Kong in them. #1 DKC, #2 DKC Returns, and #3 DK64. Then there's the fact that general audiences and just a lot of people in general see Dixie as a "female Diddy" sadly. You guys act as if Dixie is a shoe-in. Do we really know that? I'm certain the only reason K. Rool got in and got this much love is because he won the Ballot. If that's the case we better hope there is another Ballot and that the Dixie supporters rally behind her more than ever.

As for the Isabelle VS Dark Samus thing. Once again it comes down to the fact that Dark Samus has the same proprtions as Samus, and Isabelle doesn't have the same proprtions as Villager. Then add on the super popularity of Isabelle and it just makes sense.
 
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Glaciacott

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You also have to consider that the best selling DK games never had Dixie Kong in them. #1 DKC, #2 DKC Returns, and #3 DK64. Then there's the fact that general audiences and just a lot of people in general see Dixie as a "female Diddy" sadly. You guys act as if Dixie is a shoe-in. Do we really know that? I'm certain the only reason K. Rool got in and got this much love is because he won the Ballot. If that's the case we better hope there is another Ballot and that the Dixie supporters rally behind her more than ever.
Weird that you have this impression that people see her as a shoo-in, because what I see is the opposite.
Post-K. Rool the hype went up considerably because people saw Chrom and figured that Dixie could perhaps actually be an echo fighter.
Post-Isabelle that hype died down a lot given it gives more credence to Vergeben who has never mentioned Dixie, and the case of Isabelle showed that Dixie would be treated more as a semi-clone than an echo, which, combined with the vergeben stuff makes it even less likely she's in the base roster.

So with all that in mind, no one is acting as if Dixie is a shoo-in. We act as if Dixie DESERVES to be in this game, which she does, but that's a different argument. You'll notice most people that love Dixie are already resigning themselves to having to campaign hard for her to have her hopefully be considered as DLC. What you said about K. Rool making in because of the ballot is also exactly what I was saying, even if you disagree with the reasons of why Country content has been pushed aside post Rare.

As for the Isabelle VS Dark Samus thing. Once again it comes down to the fact that Dark Samus has the same proprtions as Samus, and Isabelle doesn't have the same proprtions as Villager. Then add on the super popularity of Isabelle and it just makes sense.
This is one of those Sakurai explanations I don't buy. The difference in proportions between Smash Villager and New Leaf Isabelle is definitely there, but it would not have been that much of a reach for them to have the same skeleton, much in the same way you can rationalize Marth/Lucina and Roy/Chrom as having the same skeleton.
Isabelle could have very easily been an echo fighter, and I'm willing to bet money on the fact that the only reason she isn't is not because of design considerations, but because of business ones: wanting to make the character a unique fighter due to her popularity and high importance as a face of a highly popular franchise.
So sure, Dark Samus being an echo is not something that happened because she's not japanese, but its lack of uniqueness outside of aesthetics definitely makes sense as a symptom of a character whose developers probably didn't get the chance of having as much input in its design as those for characters like Isabelle.
 
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Koopaul

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There's also the fact that Animal Crossing New Leaf sold over 11 million copies by itself while the entire Metroid Prime series combined sold over 7 million.

As for who "deserves" to be in Smash? There is no standard for who deserves to be in Smash or not. Are we forgetting that freaking Ice Climbers got in the game before Diddy Kong, Wario, and King Dedede?

It mostly comes down to Sakurai's will. Things like popularity, relevance, and history play a factor. But ultimately it's up to the man himself what gets in or not.
 
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Glaciacott

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There's totally standards for who deserves to be in Smash lol. Sakurai may ultimately disagree and not actually put characters in the game, but whether a character gets in the game or not doesn't mean a character didn't deserve (or not) to be in the game.

Ice Climbers were from one of the notable titles of the NES and definitely deserved inclusion, much in the same way Duck Hunt deserved inclusion and the likes of Balloon Fighter would as well. That Balloon Fighter didn't happen because of design reasons while the other two did is a different situation, doesn't mean Balloon Fighter is not a deserving option.

Which is why I just outright point out Dixie is deserving. The only thing keeping her out are limitations external to her deserving inclusion, like other deserving characters and veterans being prioritized.
 
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Koopaul

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Says who? You are making your standards of what makes something deserving. Ice Climber really isn't that notable from the NES in fact the game sucks.

Hey if you can do that so can I!

Dr. Wright is totally desrving because he's from Sim City which is a big series developed by legend Will Wright and based on him too. Birdo is totally deserving because she is the most notable boss from SMB2 and a recurring Mario character. Tetris Block deserves to be a character because it's one of the most successful video game series of all time.

You see? Anyone can justify any character and say they are deserving. And then you get these petty wars over "Who is more deserving to be in Smash?" and nobody is right or wrong because we can assign more value to certain things than others. I could say Birdo is more deserving than Dixie because she is more historical and had more appearances than she did. See how pointless that is?
 

Marcello691

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I highly doubt this is true. There are lots of Nintendo games that show a lot of DKC love. But I will admit it's possible that Sakurai himself is unfamiliar with the DKC series or is disinterested in it. Not because it's a Western developed game (c'mon guys that's silly) but because he simply didn't really get into it. The man can't be a fan of every Nintendo game ever made.

You also have to consider that the best selling DK games never had Dixie Kong in them. #1 DKC, #2 DKC Returns, and #3 DK64. Then there's the fact that general audiences and just a lot of people in general see Dixie as a "female Diddy" sadly. You guys act as if Dixie is a shoe-in. Do we really know that? I'm certain the only reason K. Rool got in and got this much love is because he won the Ballot. If that's the case we better hope there is another Ballot and that the Dixie supporters rally behind her more than ever.

As for the Isabelle VS Dark Samus thing. Once again it comes down to the fact that Dark Samus has the same proprtions as Samus, and Isabelle doesn't have the same proprtions as Villager. Then add on the super popularity of Isabelle and it just makes sense.
DK64 and DKC2 both sold over 5mil copies, and DKC 3 sold more than dk64 in japan even though it came out after the n64 launch.
I don't think the "sales argument" works here, because if we go by sales, diddy, Dixie and k.rool should have been in melee already. So there must be another reason and that's why many people assume that Sakurai doesn't like the dk franchise as there are franchises who sell waaaaaay less than the dk games and they still have more representation in the smash games.
I do think the ice climbers didn't deserve to be in melee but in later installments because their game was not a huge seller like duck hunt which sold almost 30mil copies due to being a pack-in game. So if we go by sales then duck hunt should have been in melee instead...
So back to dixie, I don't think she is a shoe-in, but I must admit I thought this when brawl was announced, I was sure that dixie along with k.rool and diddy would be in the game...
Dixie really should be in smash, that makes sense but Sakurai has his own imagination of the perfect smash game, so who knows if she's in the base roster.
I know one thing for sure, if she's not in the base game, we have to do our best to reach out to Sakurai so that she will become available as a dlc character!
 

Luigi player

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For Smash4 I considered her a shoe-in. I thought since she was already worked on for Brawl she had to be considered heavily and made playable since the DK franchise lacked newcomers a lot.. but alas.
Not this time since we've seen Sakurai neglect the DK franchise and now that we have K. Rool it could somewhat lower her chances because of not many newcomers.

I actually expect her not to be in.. but it's not impossible. Maybe around 30 % or so. Hoping for DLC mostly or to be surprised and she's just there in the base game.
 
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MoonlitIllusion

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DK64 and DKC2 both sold over 5mil copies, and DKC 3 sold more than dk64 in japan even though it came out after the n64 launch.
I don't think the "sales argument" works here, because if we go by sales, diddy, Dixie and k.rool should have been in melee already. So there must be another reason and that's why many people assume that Sakurai doesn't like the dk franchise as there are franchises who sell waaaaaay less than the dk games and they still have more representation in the smash games.
I do think the ice climbers didn't deserve to be in melee but in later installments because their game was not a huge seller like duck hunt which sold almost 30mil copies due to being a pack-in game. So if we go by sales then duck hunt should have been in melee instead...
So back to dixie, I don't think she is a shoe-in, but I must admit I thought this when brawl was announced, I was sure that dixie along with k.rool and diddy would be in the game...
Dixie really should be in smash, that makes sense but Sakurai has his own imagination of the perfect smash game, so who knows if she's in the base roster.
I know one thing for sure, if she's not in the base game, we have to do our best to reach out to Sakurai so that she will become available as a dlc character!
Also worth noting that among the fanbase DKC2 is pretty much the most popular game, DK64 may have sold well but not many look back on it fondly. Meanwhile DKC2 is beloved to this day and Dixie is pretty much most people's preferred options due to her different abilities. The same could also be said for Tropical freeze which is becoming beloved, Dixie is once again the most popular partner.
 
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Diddy Kong

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I appreciate the sentiment, but no need to add me.

In case you didn't know, it's Valk~!



Just donning a tongue-in-cheek halloween look, that is all.




I'd wanna say same, but just look what happened to Dark Pit and Lucina - they didn't receive any modification whatsoever from last game, and IDK if I wanna gamble on Daisy like what fans of Dorf had to do for over three games until he got to use anything remotely characteristic to him.

Weird thing too because the only character gaining further modifications seems Dr.Mario, though since he's animated identical to Mario anyway, feels more seniority move done to him due being in Melee.
Yeah about Doc, I think Sakurai changed him up a little so that he wouldn’t have to make Dr.Mario a Echo of Mario.

Kind of his way of saying: Noooo Dr.Mario is not a Echo, he’s a beloved veteran! :D And this applying to Young Link and Pichu as well, tho with the changes to Link and Pikachu, they stand out now more as semi clones or something similar.

I also still really want Dixie in desperately honestly. So this might actually be a good thing. Dixie likely won’t end up being a full blown Echo, but COULD end up playing more like Diddy than we all hoped for.
 

Arymle Roseanne

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Yeah about Doc, I think Sakurai changed him up a little so that he wouldn’t have to make Dr.Mario a Echo of Mario.

Kind of his way of saying: Noooo Dr.Mario is not a Echo, he’s a beloved veteran! :D And this applying to Young Link and Pichu as well, tho with the changes to Link and Pikachu, they stand out now more as semi clones or something similar.

I also still really want Dixie in desperately honestly. So this might actually be a good thing. Dixie likely won’t end up being a full blown Echo, but COULD end up playing more like Diddy than we all hoped for.
Well it wouldn't hurt if she was a semi clone of Diddy at least, they might be able to allow her to grab items with her ponytail and have her trademark dash attack which also could be used as her neutral aerial.

I mean the differences don't have to be too drastic but at least she would feel a little more in character rather than just a glorified redskin.
 

ZeroJanitor

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^im glad you added gorilla because i was very confused at first
 

ZeroJanitor

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it doesnt help that she doesnt blink in that animation

modded-in characters in brawl tend to have very stiff and uncanny animations anyway since they're made by fans with no budgets but the pmdt's animations generally look pretty good. had the character been developed further they might have tweaked the animation to look more life-like at some point.
 

Marcello691

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What?? It's the worst DKC by a huge margin. All other DKCs are like 10/10 or better but 3 is more like 7-8/10 (still a good game though)
I wouldn't say it's the worst, I would rank the DKC games like this:

DKCTF
DKC2
DKC3
DKC
DKC Returns

I don't know why people like the first dkc so much, I'm a huge dk fan and I played every dk game multiple times, but dkc is not that good of a game. The music is the best thing about dkc. I loved that dk was playable though! Everything else was better in dkc2 and dkc3 (better graphics, better controls, better level design, better boss fights)
Tropical Freeze is almost perfect, the only things missing are the animal buddies and the kremlins.
 

Strong DK

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I wouldn't say it's the worst, I would rank the DKC games like this:

DKCTF
DKC2
DKC3
DKC
DKC Returns

I don't know why people like the first dkc so much, I'm a huge dk fan and I played every dk game multiple times, but dkc is not that good of a game. The music is the best thing about dkc. I loved that dk was playable though! Everything else was better in dkc2 and dkc3 (better graphics, better controls, better level design, better boss fights)
Tropical Freeze is almost perfect, the only things missing are the animal buddies and the kremlins.
I fully agree with Tropical Freeze part. Would have been perfect with kremlings.
About the other part i guess it just is different tastes with different people. For me best DKC to worst is:
DKCTF
DKCR/DKC
DKC2
DKC3
 
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Arymle Roseanne

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I fully agree with Tropical Freeze part. Would have been perfect with kremlings.
About the other part i guess it just is different tastes with different people. For me best DKC to worst is:
DKCTF
DKCR/DKC
DKC2
DKC3
Yes everyone has different taste of the games. I honestly loved Dkc3 but the only problems that make it weaker than the previous two were my dislike for Kiddy Kong and it being a bit too easy in my opinion. I do like it a little more than DkcR though.
Dkc 1,2 & TF were absolute masterpieces in my opinion, 2 is my favorite SNES game.

Dkc2
Dkc1/DkcTF
Dkc3
DkcR
 

Koopaul

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Also worth noting that among the fanbase DKC2 is pretty much the most popular game, DK64 may have sold well but not many look back on it fondly. Meanwhile DKC2 is beloved to this day and Dixie is pretty much most people's preferred options due to her different abilities. The same could also be said for Tropical freeze which is becoming beloved, Dixie is once again the most popular partner.
Does that even matter? Judging by K. Rool and how it seems like Nintendo was surprised by his demand to come back, Nintendo seems to be completely unaware of how fanbases feel until they get extremely vocal. All they have are sales figures and maybe Japanese fans to go by.
Then you have another factor that Nintendo and Sakurai are sometimes gonna do what they want despite the demands. And then sometimes they realize that fanbases aren't as big as they are vocal. Like Metroid fans, who despite being loud and loyal, are much smaller than they realise.

Fans sometimes create echo chambers and start to believe that what they all believe is the truth. Then you step outside that fanbase and realise "What? The Metroid series doesn't make that much money and Nintendo has no obligation to make these games? Especially when the Metroid games the fans want are really expensive, and something smaller and cheaper makes the loyal fans angry?"

*Ahem* But back to Dixie. I will say that DLC is likely, but I wonder if a Tropical Freeze stage will come with her? It would be a great package deal I'd say. But I once again wonder if Sakurai or his team ever played Tropical Freeze. And if they do research on it we might just get the first level of Lost Mangroves.
 

Strong DK

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Yes everyone has different taste of the games. I honestly loved Dkc3 but the only problems that make it weaker than the previous two were my dislike for Kiddy Kong and it being a bit too easy in my opinion. I do like it a little more than DkcR though.
Dkc 1,2 & TF were absolute masterpieces in my opinion, 2 is my favorite SNES game.

Dkc2
Dkc1/DkcTF
Dkc3
DkcR
Those two are my major problems with DKC3 too. Kiddy and too easy. Even with tuffst.
And also the atmosphere in the game feels so different compared to 1-2 like there is something wrong imo.
 
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Mariomaniac45213

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I wouldn't say it's the worst, I would rank the DKC games like this:

DKCTF
DKC2
DKC3
DKC
DKC Returns

I don't know why people like the first dkc so much, I'm a huge dk fan and I played every dk game multiple times, but dkc is not that good of a game. The music is the best thing about dkc. I loved that dk was playable though! Everything else was better in dkc2 and dkc3 (better graphics, better controls, better level design, better boss fights)
Tropical Freeze is almost perfect, the only things missing are the animal buddies and the kremlins.
I agree with the ranking except switch DKC and DKC3. Returns is dead last for me. To me that game felt too play it safe and uninspired for my tastes. While I dont think DKC3 is THAT great it isnt as bad as a lot of people make it out to be. At least DKC3 tried new things and fresh ideas so that alone makes it better than Returns in my book. All Returns had was EXTREMELY lame enemies and a terrible blow mechanic to differentiate itself.
 
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I think DKC3 is more fun from a gameplay perspective. But DKC1 is way better in terms of aesthetics like music and character designs.

DKC2 is Top.
DKCTF is below DKCTF.
DKCR is good but I don't really like the art style of a lot of things. I don't like a lot of changes period.
 
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