The Last Nintendo All-Star: Dixie Kong's Barrel of Support Buddies. THANK YOU, ISABELLE!!!

Reila

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Ugh... if Dixie Kong is an Echo Fighter of Diddy Kong, I hope she at least have these moves:

- spinning with her hair like Peach's floating jump
- spinning with her hair like Link's up special
- spinning with her hair as a dash attack
- grabbing and carrying enemies with her hair
Well... DK can carry opponents with his grab, and his Up-B is pretty much based on her helicopter hair. So if she is a DK/Diddy echo, she can have all of that.
 

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Like, I'm definitely not rooting for an Echo and I acknowledge that it is possible, but the way things currently stand we shouldn't treat Dixie like that's all she has going for her. Yes we know that a DK-Diddy hybrid is possible too now, along with flat-out Echo, Dr. Mario level all the way up to Wolf Level in addition to unique, but if we don't at least speculate on the possibilities we'll stagnate and this whole Echo discussion will get tiresome. Treating her like a guaranteed Echo and ruling out anything else is gonna create tunnel vision, and while I'm still hoping for Unique I'm willing to read opposing opinions for discussion's sake.

Y'all know where I stand with Dixie, and I'm gonna look at the currently confirmed echoes to compare and contrast their merits to Dixie later on.

EDIT: I really hope her trophy descriptions were onto something and not just words.
 
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MoonlitIllusion

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Ugh... if Dixie Kong is an Echo Fighter of Diddy Kong, I hope she at least have these moves:

- spinning with her hair like Peach's floating jump
- spinning with her hair like Link's up special
- spinning with her hair as a dash attack
- grabbing and carrying enemies with her hair
Strongly agree, she at least needs her hair spin, she needs to pick up things with her hair and she needs her canon dash attack, anything less would be a little insulting tbh and would misrepresent her entirely.

Sidenote, now that echoes can have some different moves I'd be super down for a funky echo, have his side special wack people with the board, have him use it in his up special, give him his TF ground slam animation and give him some funky taunts and victory animations. It makes too much sense
 

MoonlitIllusion

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Well... DK can carry opponents with his grab, and his Up-B is pretty much based on her helicopter hair. So if she is a DK/Diddy echo, she can have all of that.
Would that work with DK's much larger build though? I feel like taking DK's moves and slapping them on Dixie isn't as easy as people are making it seem, plus she grabs with her hair and not her arms, it'd basically be completely different by that point.
 

Reila

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Would that work with DK's much larger build though? I feel like taking DK's moves and slapping them on Dixie isn't as easy as people are making it seem, plus she grabs with her hair and not her arms, it'd basically be completely different by that point.
It is not as simple as copying and pasting, no, but the raw work behind the move is already done. It is only a matter of adjusting the hitbox of the move, since Dixie is significantly smaller than DK. Plenty of fighters of different builds share similar moves, after all.

Well, I am talking about DK's Up B > Dixie's helicopter hair.

The grab thing? Yes, it is not that simple, but again, they already have the code for that. It is a matter of adapting it. I am not the best programmer but I know that, at least.
 
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MoonlitIllusion

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I still think Dixie shouldn't be an echo fighter. I don't think giving her a ponytail recovery is enough to represent her properly. I still believe several of her moves should be her swing her ponytail, and that she should grab and throw people with her ponytail. Sakurai has done such a great job at representing these characters, he clearly understands the history of all of these characters, and for him to include a version of Dixie that doesn't attack with her hair just doesn't seem like something he would do.
Makes me think, he had to have played through the DKC trilogy in order to create K Rool's moveset, if he played through those games and then still made Dixie an echo that'd be really sad since she's really nothing like Diddy in those games
 

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I don't think that Dixie is popular just here on Smashboards. I saw a lot of polls and Dixie was, at least, in the top 20. In a recent poll Dixie placed 18th, so she definitely has support.
She's just disproportionately popular here. She's top 20 in most other parts of the Smash pantheon, it's true. But she's top 5 here. I would never deny her the well-deserved popularity she has overall, I was merely advising against using anecdotal data from Smashboards as an indicator of her overall standing.

If you use us as an example, she looks to be overall top 5, or at least top 10. But realistically she's probably somewhere in the teens, although each confirmation and deconfirmation moves her closer to the top. Smashboards loves Dixie more than any other part of the community, relatively speaking. But that's not to say she isn't all-around loved.
 
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Makes me think, he had to have played through the DKC trilogy in order to create K Rool's moveset, if he played through those games and then still made Dixie an echo that'd be really sad since she's really nothing like Diddy in those games
THIS. You'd even have an easier time beating DKC2&3 using Dixie, and don't get me started on Tropical Freeze!
 

Reila

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She's just disproportionately popular here. She's top 20 in most other parts of the Smash pantheon, it's true. But she's top 5 here. I would never deny her the well-deserved popularity she has overall, I was merely advising against using anecdotal data from Smashboards as an indicator of her overall standing.

If you use us as an example, she looks to be overall top 5, or at least top 10. But realistically she's probably somewhere in the teens, although each confirmation and deconfirmation moves her closer to the top. Smashboards loves Dixie more than any other part of the community, relatively speaking. But that's not to say she isn't all-around loved.
My two cents:

If you count peeps who are not confirmed yet, I think she is definitely a top 10 here or outside of the forum. Random Pokémon #850, Waluigis, Ashleys, random Xenoblade 2 whatshisname and stuff aren't as popular as her. (The only VERY popular Pokémon not playable is Eevee and it is once again in a Pokéball).

There are definitely folks more popular than her who aren't playable or confirmed yet, such as Geno and probably Isaac, but I can't think of ten or twenty potential fighters that outshine her in popularity.

In my opinion, you are underestimating Dixie's popularity.
 
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Geoffrey Druyts

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I wanna throw in my support for Dixie Kong. I expected both Dixie and K Rool to be announced at the same time but that sadly didn't happen. Atleast I got my most requested Nintendo character in Smash, but I'd still like to have Dixie herself in Smash too.
 

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My two cents:

If you count peeps who are not confirmed yet, I think she is definitely a top 10 here or outside of the forum. Random Pokémon #850, Waluigis, Ashleys, random Xenoblade 2 whatshisname and stuff aren't as popular as her. (The only VERY popular Pokémon not playable is Eevee and it is once again in a Pokéball).

There are definitely folks more popular than her who aren't playable or confirmed yet, such as Geno and probably Isaac, but I can't think of ten or twenty potential fighters that outshine her in popularity.

In my opinion, you are underestimating Dixie's popularity.
I can't think of many characters who are definitely more popular than her, there's obviously ridley and k rool who are already in, Bandana Dee could be for sure. Maybe Isaac and Geno but I honestly think both of their popularity is extremely overrated since they're basically dead characters by this point. Ashley is possibly more popular in Japan but not worldwide and there's probably some pokemon up there but overall dixie could very well be sitting in the top 10 of the ballot for all we know.
 

Reila

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I can't think of many characters who are definitely more popular than her, there's obviously ridley and k rool who are already in, Bandana Dee could be for sure. Maybe Isaac and Geno but I honestly think both of their popularity is extremely overrated since they're basically dead characters by this point. Ashley is possibly more popular in Japan but not worldwide and there's probably some pokemon up there but overall dixie could very well be sitting in the top 10 of the ballot for all we know.
Oh yeah, I forgot Bandana Dee. He is popular here and in Japan, I want to believe? The thing about Isaac is that he has been very requested since Brawl, so he might have a shot. Then again his assist trophy was gone from Smash 4.
 

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Y'know, even though his voice is realistic, K. Rool manages to come off as silly, vicious and krazy. That leads me to believe Dixie will come off as girly (not too girly I think) and will have a realistic voice too. How will it sound I wonder. Will it be like a softer or higher pitched version of Diddy's? I can't differentiate between male and female monkey/chimp voices IRL so this will be interesting.
 

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Oh yeah, I forgot Bandana Dee. He is popular here and in Japan, I want to believe? The thing about Isaac is that he has been very requested since Brawl, so he might have a shot. Then again his assist trophy was gone from Smash 4.
Isaac (and Geno as well for that matter) have a very dedicated fanbase but I think it's size is overestimated since casual fans and new fans won't really know about them. Tropical Freeze's release about a year or so before the ballot came out definitely helps her as well, timing could have been on her side.
 

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Honestly, i don't wanna be too optimistic, but i really think that she's in the top 10 most popular characters worldwide.
Who's really more popular and asked than her (and not deconfirmed) ? Isaac, Geno, Bandana Dee and maybe Banjo&Kazooie ? And we know for a fact that she's going to have more support now that K Rool is in the game.
 

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Alright, after seeing the direction that Echoes are taking in this game with the latest Direct, I can definitely see Dixie Kong as an Echo Fighter. Chrom has a unique Up Special (or rather, borrows it from another FE character) and Dark Samus has a differently functioning Side Special... And they each have incredibly unique animations. If Dixie has a Helicopter spin for her Up Special (maybe borrowing from DK's up special, like how Chrom's borrows from Ike's) and if she has the gumball popgun instead of the peanut popgun with slightly different functionality (again, like how Dark Samus's missiles are slightly different than Samus's) and the rest of her using unique animations but the same-ish moves (cartwheel would obviously change to a pirouette), just really acrobatic and ponytaily in presentation, she would not only work well, but satisfy.

So yeah, I wouldn't have wanted her an echo prior to the Direct, but now, I'm all aboard (plus it would put her head logo right next to Diddy's, for always and forever!)
 

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My two cents:

If you count peeps who are not confirmed yet, I think she is definitely a top 10 here or outside of the forum. Random Pokémon #850, Waluigis, Ashleys, random Xenoblade 2 whatshisname and stuff aren't as popular as her. (The only VERY popular Pokémon not playable is Eevee and it is once again in a Pokéball).

There are definitely folks more popular than her who aren't playable or confirmed yet, such as Geno and probably Isaac, but I can't think of ten or twenty potential fighters that outshine her in popularity.

In my opinion, you are underestimating Dixie's popularity.
It's true that most of her competition has either hit the big time or been sent to the graveyard. She was undoubtedly losing to Ridley, Wolf, Rex/Pyra, K Rool, Bandana Dee, Ice Climbers, Snake, Inkling, Isaac, Ashley and possibly Geno before the game's reveal, but a large number of those characters are no longer in contention.

Ultimately, it would take an unrealistic amount of work to deduce her exact standing in the overall pantheon, as there are millions of fans to consider who use different media to talk about Smash, and many are from other nations. I've seen her not even make top 25 in one poll, barely make top 20 in another, yet still hit top 10 or even top 5 elsewhere. She's probably one of the most inconsistent characters in terms of popularity, as she's all over the spectrum in different places. This is all I meant when I advised we use caution. I don't want us being shocked and appalled if she doesn't make it in but characters we see as "less popular" do.

It's always good to not lose sight of the bigger picture. Remember Waluigi and Ashley. We thought they had everything working in their favor and they were big competition for Dixie. And well...look at them now. It leaves us to wonder if they were as popular as we believed, or if they were just considered non-priorities in this massive game.

All that said, Dixie has a couple things going for her that they didn't:
-Echo fighter potential because of her resemblance to Diddy and relationship to him.
-A return to prominent roles in a recent game that has yet to show up in Smash despite it's success.
-Her series is getting recognized this time around to a much bigger degree.
-She actually jumps, runs and fights in her games. Nothing needs to be compromised, re-imagined or re-invented to make her a fighter. You could lift 50% of her straight from her games and she'd fit in just fine.

Don't think me defeatist. I think her odds are damn good. I just don't want us to think shes a lock just because our awesome community is all on her side.
 
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Now that we know Echo = Clone. Yes. Before, we just thought echo meant that they mimmicked another character.
We all have been thinking of her as a semi-clone, and echo is just Sakurai's wording. I guess it could work. I just want Dixie, and I'd love for her to be unique, but I take echo in the sense of semi-clone.
 

Reila

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Isaac (and Geno as well for that matter) have a very dedicated fanbase but I think it's size is overestimated since casual fans and new fans won't really know about them. Tropical Freeze's release about a year or so before the ballot came out definitely helps her as well, timing could have been on her side.
You are not wrong, but to be fair, for casual fans someone like Ridley might as well not exist and he is playable. Same goes to King K. Rool who was MIA until he showed up again in Smash. So who knows, really.
She was undoubtedly losing to Rex/Pyra,
If you are going to say this, it is better that we just agree to disagree.
 
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cybersai

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I think Dixie is more popular than any possible newcomer right now not counting a Pokemon and maaaybe Geno. Bandana Dee has a huge following in Japan but not much in the west.

Even as much as I love Skull Kid, I don't think he's as mainstream as Dixie due to only being in one real game.
 

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What's confusing about Echoes ATM is that Chrom is, but Toon Link and Dr. Mario aren't. I'm not criticizing but I am scratching my head.
Toon Link I get because Link and Toon Link have very different build but there's literally no reason for Doc to not be an echo besides the fact that he's a veteran and that in itself is barely a valid reason
 

Reila

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Yeah, she can't really lose to a character that literally didn't exist when the ballot was happening
It is just bizarre to me. I don't think Shulk himself was more popular than Dixie before he got into Smash. He had very vocal supporters (and I was one of them), but that is it. If he was more popular it wasn't by much. Rex and Pyra are nobodies in comparison.
What's confusing about Echoes ATM is that Chrom is, but Toon Link and Dr. Mario aren't. I'm not criticizing but I am scratching my head.
Dr. Mario is puzzling, but maybe they didn't want to call him an echo because he is such an old Smash rep? I don't know. As for Toon Link, he is very different from the other Links and he has different proportions too, so maybe that is why. I know as little as you, so I am just theorizing, really.
 
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Ultinarok

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Yeah, she can't really lose in popularity to a character that literally didn't exist when the ballot was happening
During the ballot era she was obviously winning. Rex and Pyra have taken over Japan though in recent years. The ballot alone is likely not the only consideration being made for participation in Smash. Rex and Pyra have been shooting up the ranks in popularity (mainly in Japan, and I emphasize this) since XC2 came out. They scored number one more anticipated/expected/wanted whatever on more than one poll. Obviously not during the ballot. But in the last several months, for sure.

Remember that Dixie is a western character. I would be astounded to find out she was somehow more popular in Japan than in the West. The opposite is true for Rex. I suppose "undoubtedly" is a strong word in their case. So I will just say, there's a chance that Japan has put them in contention. Shulk was obscure because his game wasn't well known at the time. But Smash has definitely changed that and turned the series into a true IP, and one that clearly is trying to take off as the next great JRPG series. Overseas, its starting to work.

But again, all of our data is anecdotal. We are all being presumptuous about everything. Only someone with the time and the means could ever deduce absolute popularity to a T. I'm by no means trying to argue with anyone on here about it.
 
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N3ON

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Lemme say that I was truly surprised Dixie didn't show up in the K. Rool trailer. I still think she stands a good chance at being an echo (in the same vein as Chrom's hybrid composition) but that seemed like an opportune moment to show her. Like with Robin and Lucina. Or even when Dark Pit was teased in the Palutena trailer. Ah well.
 
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Lemme say that I was truly surprised Dixie didn't show up in the K. Rool trailer. I still think she stands a good chance at being an echo (in the same vein as Chrom's hybrid composition) but that seemed like an opportune moment to show her. Like with Robin and Lucina. Or even when Dark Pit was teased in the Palutena trailer. Ah well.
There is one thing that could be teasing her: if you know about the original trilogy of DKC, then you know that donkey and diddy are captured by Rool before the events of dkc 3, a dixie-centered game. The segment at the end of the k. Rool trailer where he buries the two could likely be hinting at a part two of the trailer, where Dixie is revealed and has to save the other two trademark kongs from the clutches of K. Rool.
 
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MoonlitIllusion

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During the ballot era she was obviously winning. Rex and Pyra have taken over Japan though in recent years. The ballot alone is likely not the only consideration being made for participation in Smash. Rex and Pyra have been shooting up the ranks in popularity (mainly in Japan, and I emphasize this) since XC2 came out. They scored number one more anticipated/expected/wanted whatever on more than one poll. Obviously not during the ballot. But in the last several months, for sure.

Remember that Dixie is a western character. I would be astounded to find out she was somehow more popular in Japan than in the West. The opposite is true for Rex. I suppose "undoubtedly" is a strong word in their case. So I will just say, there's a chance that Japan has put them in contention. Shulk was obscure because his game wasn't well known at the time. But Smash has definitely changed that and turned the series into a true IP, and one that clearly is trying to take off as the next great JRPG series. Overseas, its starting to work.

But again, all of our data is anecdotal. We are all being presumptuous about everything. Only someone with the time and the means could ever deduce absolute popularity to a T. I'm by no means trying to argue with anyone on here about it.
While you might not be wrong it's generally agreed upon that Rex and pyra came out way too late to be considered for the base game anyway
 

Reila

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Old Melee clones aren't echoes, same reason Pichu isn't either.
But technically there is really not a significant difference between echoes and clones.

Pichu and Toon Link have different proportions/builds, but Dr. Mario is definitely puzzling since the differences are solely visual and on numbers.
While you might not be wrong it's generally agreed upon that Rex and pyra came out way too late to be considered for the base game anyway
I don't think they are big names even for DLC. If this was Smash 4? Yeah, but in a game focused on bringing fan favorites and big names, I doubt it.
 
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N3ON

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There is one thing that could be teasing her: if you know about the original trilogy of DKC, then you know that donkey and diddy are captured by Rool before the events of dkc 3, a dixie-centered game. The segment at the end of the k. Rool trailer where he buries the two could likely be hinting at a part two of the trailer, where Dixie is revealed and has to save the other two trademark kongs from the clutches of K. Rool.
If she's unique, that's possible, but I don't think she will be.

Though in general I also think people trying to tie the trailers together or to a larger narrative will be in for disappointment.
 
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There is one thing that could be teasing her: if you know about the original trilogy of DKC, then you know that donkey and diddy are captured by Rool before the events of dkc 3, a dixie-centered game. The segment at the end of the k. Rool trailer where he buries the two could likely be hinting at a part two of the trailer, where Dixie is revealed and has to save the other two trademark kongs from the clutches of K. Rool.
You smarty you! I did not even think of that. How cool.
 

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If she's unique, that's possible, but I don't think she will be.

Though in general I also think people trying to tie the trailers together or to a larger narrative will be in for disappointment.
You're not entirely wrong but there's only one example of 2 characters from the same series having a cgi trailer each and that was rosalina and bowser jr who's only connection is that they were both in galaxy. Could be an exception for these 2 since they're so closely connected for all we know
 
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But technically there is really not a significant difference between echoes and clones.

Pichu and Toon Link have different proportions/builds, but Dr. Mario is definitely puzzling since the differences are solely visual and on numbers.

I don't think they are big names even for DLC. If this was Smash 4? Yeah, but in a game focused on bringing fan favorites and big names, I doubt it.
Dr.Mario has a different weight, power, and speed, and also a few unique moves(Down-Air and Down-Special), while I assume echo fighters have the same weight and speed.
 
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N3ON

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You're not entirely wrong but there's only one example of 2 characters from the same series having a cgi trailer each and that was rosalina and bowser jr who's only connection is that they were both in galaxy. Could be an exception for these 2 since they're so closely connected for all we know
Well that's why I said if she's unique it's possible. I think every unique character will get their own trailer, like last time, (eg. Rosalina & Bowser Jr) but the echoes/clones (eg. Dr. Mario) will not. But personally I doubt it'll be a continuation, it's not like Bowser Jr's trailer was a continuation from Rosalina's, it was its own separate entity.
 

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While you might not be wrong it's generally agreed upon that Rex and pyra came out way too late to be considered for the base game anyway
I don't want anyone to think I'm coming to be devil's advocate or be pessimistic. I just know from personal experience that it's a bad idea to bank too much on what seems to be a sure thing.

I did it to myself during the Smash 4 days, when I was hounding for the return of Wolf. The problem was that I banked on it too much, and when he didn't get in, I let myself get disappointed and ultimately my enjoyment of the game diminished somewhat. I would rather not do that again, or let anyone on here do it to themselves. Sometimes being a little glass half-empty is healthy and keeps everyone grounded. And I want to keep myself grounded so I can enjoy this amazing game, even if my most desired newcomers don't appear.

What happened with Waluigi was this phenomenon taken to the highest degree.
Many banked on him so hard, they allowed themselves to become legitimately angry and even hateful when he didn't get in. I know we're better than that, and we should keep it that way.
 
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Well that's why I said if she's unique it's possible. I think every unique character will get their own trailer, like last time, (eg. Rosalina & Bowser Jr) but the echoes/clones (eg. Dr. Mario) will not. But personally I doubt it'll be a continuation, it's not like Bowser Jr's trailer was a continuation from Rosalina's, it was its own separate entity.
I agree with this, but even if it was a hint in the K. Rool trailer, I'd take it as a nod to the series, as a lot of the things did.
I think Sakurai will casually just drop Dixie out there if she is revealed, unless of course, she is a fully new one and does get a CGI.
 

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Toon Link I get because Link and Toon Link have very different build but there's literally no reason for Doc to not be an echo besides the fact that he's a veteran and that in itself is barely a valid reason
Yea if it wasn't for Chrom I wouldn't question Toon Link, as up til now Echoes seemed to be characters with slight alterations, and the perceptions that were forming was that Echo meant practically the same, Clone meant slight changes, Semi-Clone meant they took a base moveset and made something new out of it whereas Wolf and Lucas are basically brand new sets entirely. That's how it seemed to my understanding but maybe I'm missing something.

Dr. Mario is puzzling, but maybe they didn't want to call him an echo because he is such an old Smash rep? I don't know. As for Toon Link, he is very different from the other Links and he has different proportions too, so maybe that is why. I know as little as you, so I am just theorizing, really.
Maybe Sakurai will clear it up in Famitsu or something.

Old Melee clones aren't echoes, same reason Pichu isn't either.
I legit forgot Pichu was in the game LMAO
 
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