The Last Nintendo All-Star: Dixie Kong's Barrel of Support Buddies. New artwork on Post #7,610!

BirthNote

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Can't help it when everyone declares her either boring or dead.

Hard not to be bitter when people tell you to "shut up because you already got K. Rool" whenever you ask for Dixie.

And it's not just that Sakurai gave us only Rool and nothing else. He gave us so much DK content, what with the World of Light and the music, and even Banjo-Kazooie, and yet Dixie is the one thing that get passed over and tossed in the trash.
In that case we'll have to build her up ourselves. The reality is that she's getting overlooked constantly; people see her as little more than Diddy's Minnie Mouse and believe there's nothing she can do that Diddy can't, therefore she's unnecessary.

We know that isn't the case however. Yes, she's the Last Nintendo All-star, but what makes her such? What can she do that few Kongs, including her sister can't? The answer to the 2nd question stares us in the face every time we look at her. We're not Retro, Nintendo or Steve Mayles, but we can influence how people see her and how she's portrayed. As far as we know, they're not doing anything with Dixie, so right now we can as fans build her up to be this interesting character with tons of potential.

Keep in mind that as great as K. Rool's return was, he faced vile opposition and was callously decreed dead. There were kutthroats voicing their anxieties about every other page, and Nintendo didn't acknowledge him until Mario Odyssey. He survived because his fanbase, and if Dixie goes dormant then her fans need to keep her alive too. There's plenty of positives, games and imagination to keep Dixie alive; we focus on that and she'll be appealing to people who barely know about her.
 

StormC

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I can see the frustration because an alarming number of people have said that there are no hype worthy Nintendo characters left to include so everyone defaults to their most wanted third-party character for the Fighter's Pass, and by default that excludes Dixie.

It really bugged me that a lot of K. Rool supporters defaulted to Banjo-Kazooie and not Dixie Kong when K. Rool was finally included, and how they were vindicated at E3 2019. You'd think a bunch of self proclaimed hardcore Donkey Kong Country fans would root for Dixie to get included now that K. Rool was in, but they went to the other big Rareware character instead. This was despite Banjo-Kazooie not being owned by Nintendo anymore—or, if we're being generous, because of that, out of a perception that they needed stronger support as a result...*sigh* okay I'll view it through the generous lens.

Now there are plenty of Banjo and K. Rool fans that have expressed their support for Dixie Kong, but it's far less rabid and passionate, it seems. Most of them popped in after E3 2019, said they supported Dixie Kong, and then left. I can't blame them, since Sakurai has politely asked to stop with the requests since the Fighter's Pass characters have been finalized and there's nothing anyone can do about it. This left Dixie Kong fans in a limbo—we can't be as loud and passionate as the K. Rool fans have been because it wouldn't look good due to Sakurai's statements, but we can't stop supporting Dixie Kong because our historical belief that Dixie Kong was an "obvious" and "inevitable" inclusion has been proven wrong in both Smash 4 and, sadly in Ultimate. However, it's nonetheless discouraging that more K. Rool and Banjo fans haven't joined us in at least regularly participating in discussion and hopes about Dixie Kong.

This limbo sucks, is what I'm saying, but within this limbo we could still be doing things like getting others to agree that Dixie Kong's absence from the roster is one of the most egregious, and not have that brushed aside. It's a shame that it gets brushed aside so much, though at least plenty of people outside of this thread do agree that Dixie Kong's absence is very noticeable.
Don't really see why the blame is being laid at Banjo's feet for Dixie not having overwhelming support or the implication that DKC fans are less "hardcore" for choosing Banjo over Dixie. With Banjo there was the promise of bringing a classic, long-lost Nintendo character back home 20 years after a messy divorce and loss of custody. Banjo is also a new franchise and that is always going to have advantages to appealing to people that a secondary character like Dixie just doesn't (stage, music, costumes, etc.). Just because people might be less vocal and passionate for Dixie than K. Rool or Banjo doesn't mean they're less of DKC fans.

The simple truth is a character like Dixie just might not hold the bombastic appeal to Smash fans characters like K. Rool, Ridley, and Banjo-Kazooie do. She is largely viewed as an "alternate" version of Diddy, and frankly speaking the games don't really help since she has largely not been differentiated from Diddy in many meaningful ways in the context of a potential Smash fighter. You can't force the public to change their mind that easily or quickly, and it's not like it ever affected anything when the characters were decided on long ago.

The Dixie Twitter is doing exactly what it needs to. It's keeping the character in the public's conscience and keeping the conversation going, whether it's for future DLC or future Smash games. These things take time. Being upset because other characters are more popular is unproductive and kind of petty, if I'm honest. This thread can either be a place where we vent over milk that's already long been spilled and risk alienating potential supporters or try to be welcoming and positive about Smash and Dixie.
 
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ze9

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If anything, Banjo and K. Rool's inclusions bode well for Dixie. They're finally starting to acknowledge Rare's impact on Nintendo's legacy. In the span of four games, we only got 2 of Rare's breakout characters: Donkey and Diddy (the essentials). Then, in just one game, we got another 2, K. Rool and B-K.
We're at 4/5, Dixie is the only missing one now. It's a shame, but someone has to be last. At least they're finally working towards that, and I want to stress again the finally. Before (and even after) E3 2018, I was dead sure we wouldn't have seen neither Dixie nor K. Rool ever get in Smash. I feel much more optimistic now.
 

GoodGrief741

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Squeaky wheel gets the grease. Nothing squeaks louder than a character 10 years disappeared, especially when your last appearance is Nuts & Bolts.

Nevermind all that. Right now it's our turn to squeak. All the demographically-similar characters are in, last appearance is a 5-year old game, it's looking like a good foundation to build a campaign on.
 

Planet Cool

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(other than the quick thrown together quick cash grab Switch port)?
Why do people keep saying this? The Switch port of Tropical Freeze is great! They added a new playable character and even updated some models. (DK's new nose, anyone?) And don't tell me you don't enjoy playing Tropical Freeze on the go. I don't know what's going on at Retro or why they've taken so long to announce a new game but I think we can stop giving them crap over the port.

I'm really glad I got Dixie Kong! What a lucky draw!
February! How apropos!
 

Mariomaniac45213

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Why do people keep saying this? The Switch port of Tropical Freeze is great! They added a new playable character and even updated some models. (DK's new nose, anyone?) And don't tell me you don't enjoy playing Tropical Freeze on the go. I don't know what's going on at Retro or why they've taken so long to announce a new game but I think we can stop giving them crap over the port
I mean it was $10 more expensive on Switch for what? An easy mode for a game IMO that was already made easier than Returns in the original release due to all the extra items they give you in Funky's shop, the high amount of lives/coins you earn in game, the fact they give you an extra hit point on mine cart and rocket barrel levels compared to Returns, the fact Dixie exists, and the new "Kong Pao" move which is a screen nuke. Tropical Freeze is the easiest DKC game since the 1st IMO. Sorry a new nose doesnt cut it for me.

The port could've had extra levels (especially considering the game already had less stages than Return from the jump) or a secret K.Rool boss fight or mini-games or SOMETHING. Especially considering Retro hasnt made anything since Tropical Freeze in 2014. Dont try and tell me they didnt have time to add extra content besides Funky Kong. Lol At least DKCR3D had 8 extra levels to justify its rerelease.

Also compared to the extra content Pokken Tournament, Mario Kart 8, Hyrule Warriors, Captain Toad recieved with their Switch ports it just makes the Tropical Freeze port seem even more lazy. The only port lazier than TF IMO is NSMBU because unlike TF being a fantastic game on its own that game was always bland and boring. Not to mention Mario Maker 2 made that game completely irrelevent 5 months later. That game was simply crapped out to fill an empty Q1 line-up.
 
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Mushroomguy12

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Well, if anyone wants positivity, the Dixie Kong for Smash Twitter recently posted this little gem.

For those interested, this is actually a small portion of a bigger piece of artwork.

Even if she hasn't found her way among the Smashers, at the very least it's nice to see Dixie has found a family among the other rejects. If anyone here is part of the support threads for these other characters feel free to share this there too. Perhaps unity is best in these trying times. Even the simple act of spreading artwork like this, that displays Dixie assembled alongside all these other characters can go a long way, as one of many tiny steps that will together build a grand staircase.
 
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BirthNote

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She is largely viewed as an "alternate" version of Diddy, and frankly speaking the games don't really help since she has largely not been differentiated from Diddy in many meaningful ways in the context of a potential Smash fighter.
Can you elaborate? You're not under attack but I do disagree. The games differentiate her enough to make her the preferred Kong of choice, whether it's DKC2, 3 or Tropical Freeze, and in the context of Smash we have a decent starting point. A unique mid-air jump thanks to Tropical Freeze, a Dash Attack, Cargo Grab and at least one Cargo Throw, a Down Smash/Down Tilt (Tropical Freeze's groundpound), an UpB that could also be a glide, and 4 vehicles from DKC3. Even her new popgun can be differentiated from Diddy by having it function like it does in Tropical Freeze: bouncing repeatedly instead of firing on an arc that straightens out the longer it's charged.

Sakurai's pulled off more from characters with far less to work with. Fox, Olimar, Falcon, Rosalina, etc. I never would have imagined Rosalina playing like she does but the Smash team made it a no-brainer, and she barely does anything canonically besides advise and run a space station. A monkey alone can provide enough material for a Platform Fighter; a monkey with a large Prehensile hairy Combat Tentacle growing out of her head that defies physics and runs the length of her body, who also can use vehicles and a bubblegum gun shouldn't be hard to brainstorm either. There's not many 5-limbed fighters in that genre.
 

GoodGrief741

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Well, if anyone wants positivity, the Dixie for Smash Twitter recently posted this little gem.

For those interested, this is actually a small portion of a bigger piece of artwork.

Even if she hasn't found her way among the Smashers, at the very least it's nice to see Dixie has found a family among the other rejects. If anyone here is part of the support threads for these other characters feel free to share this there too. Perhaps unity is best in these trying times.
This is so cute!
 
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Just responding to a few points.

Don't really see why the blame is being laid at Banjo's feet for Dixie not having overwhelming support or the implication that DKC fans are less "hardcore" for choosing Banjo over Dixie. With Banjo there was the promise of bringing a classic, long-lost Nintendo character back home 20 years after a messy divorce and loss of custody. Banjo is also a new franchise and that is always going to have advantages to appealing to people that a secondary character like Dixie just doesn't (stage, music, costumes, etc.). Just because people might be less vocal and passionate for Dixie than K. Rool or Banjo doesn't mean they're less of DKC fans.
I didn't mean to imply that they're less of DKC fans, rather I was commenting on the irony of how, when K. Rool support was at its fever pitch, everyone supporting him usually went on and on about how big DKC fans they are, yet the post-K. Rool support was mostly focused on Banjo after all was said and done. I'm also aware of how many wanted both K. Rool and Dixie as a package deal, though I did not mention that explicitly as I was focusing on the other group that went to Banjo.

The simple truth is a character like Dixie just might not hold the bombastic appeal to Smash fans characters like K. Rool, Ridley, and Banjo-Kazooie do. She is largely viewed as an "alternate" version of Diddy, and frankly speaking the games don't really help since she has largely not been differentiated from Diddy in many meaningful ways in the context of a potential Smash fighter. You can't force the public to change their mind that easily or quickly, and it's not like it ever affected anything when the characters were decided on long ago.

The Dixie Twitter is doing exactly what it needs to. It's keeping the character in the public's conscience and keeping the conversation going, whether it's for future DLC or future Smash games. These things take time.
I am aware of how it will take time, I was just expressing a little frustration, is all. I mentioned the unfortunate limbo we are stuck in and how it means we can't do that much with our support, so it was an extension of that sentiment.

Being upset because other characters are more popular is unproductive and kind of petty, if I'm honest. This thread can either be a place where we vent over milk that's already long been spilled and risk alienating potential supporters or try to be welcoming and positive about Smash and Dixie.
I wasn't necessarily upset that Banjo was more popular, more that it seemingly acted as something of a vacuum when both Banjo and Dixie could have been supported at similar levels, even if Banjo was more supported for all the understandable reasons you outlined. This line of mine:

TheYungLink said:
This was despite Banjo-Kazooie not being owned by Nintendo anymore—or, if we're being generous, because of that, out of a perception that they needed stronger support as a result...*sigh* okay I'll view it through the generous lens.
Was meant as an admittance of yes, it makes more sense why Banjo was more feverishly supported after all. I am not holding anything against Banjo specifically. I should have made it more clear that my bigger issue was just that the level in support between the two characters was wider than I would have liked

As for the comments claiming I'm petty, I hope I made it clear I'm just venting a bit and I'm not trying to spoil the fun or celebration of Banjo finally coming back to Nintendo. I never insulted Banjo, the Banjo games, or Banjo fans.

Lastly, I've long been welcoming and positive about Smash and Dixie. Pretty much all the comments of mine in this thread follow that to a tee. When I made those comments about Banjo's support, I was more looking at the reality of the situation and how, from the perspective of some Dixie fans it could be seen as frustrating, than I was "blaming" it.

I did not quote the comment that Mushroomguy12 Mushroomguy12 made, though if I did my comment would have been more clear, so that's on me for letting my habit of not always quoting people get the better of my point. I do not agree with their negative attitude on the situation but I felt they were being brushed aside a little too swiftly, so I made my post to consider their perspective. The Banjo stuff was added by me to expand on their "and even Banjo-Kazooie" point as I was similarly incredulous at the time. It may have come across as more harsh than simple frustration, so if it felt like I demeaned Banjo fans like yourself, or if it felt like I was pointing fingers, I apologize. Like I said earlier, I only meant to comment on the reality of the situation and not to hold anyone specifically in bad faith.

I hope this clears everything up.
 
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StormC

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Can you elaborate? You're not under attack but I do disagree. The games differentiate her enough to make her the preferred Kong of choice, whether it's DKC2, 3 or Tropical Freeze, and in the context of Smash we have a decent starting point. A unique mid-air jump thanks to Tropical Freeze, a Dash Attack, Cargo Grab and at least one Cargo Throw, a Down Smash/Down Tilt (Tropical Freeze's groundpound), an UpB that could also be a glide, and 4 vehicles from DKC3. Even her new popgun can be differentiated from Diddy by having it function like it does in Tropical Freeze: bouncing repeatedly instead of firing on an arc that straightens out the longer it's charged.

Sakurai's pulled off more from characters with far less to work with. Fox, Olimar, Falcon, Rosalina, etc. I never would have imagined Rosalina playing like she does but the Smash team made it a no-brainer, and she barely does anything canonically besides advise and run a space station. A monkey alone can provide enough material for a Platform Fighter; a monkey with a large Prehensile hairy Combat Tentacle growing out of her head that defies physics and runs the length of her body, who also can use vehicles and a bubblegum gun shouldn't be hard to brainstorm either. There's not many 5-limbed fighters in that genre.
Using DK64 as a comparison, it initially gave Diddy tools to work with, namely the Peanut Popguns and the Rocketbarrel Boost. Those made him stand out from every other Kong because nobody else had items just like them (and there's also Chimpy Charge if they really felt like they needed more). Dixie not being in DK64 means she really didn't gain any extra abilities; imagine if she took Tiny's place and had a shrinking power, she would have a whole gimmick right there. The only thing she got in Tropical Freeze was a popgun specifically modeled off of Diddy's. That's what I mean. The public perception of the character because of the games is that her potential is mostly limited to borrowing from Diddy. Her hair hasn't been used in the games besides grabbing, dashing, and flying; certainly enough to stand out, but to most people, not enough to make a whole moveset out of. The fact that most of Diddy's Smash moves are kind of generic monkey attacks means I don't expect a lot different from Dixie, if I'm honest.

The characters you listed are somewhat different as they are meant to be representative of a series (except Rosalina). Fox, Olimar, and Captain Falcon are the main characters of their games, meaning they are there to represent the series and all it entails and thus more liberties are taken with them to replicate the feeling of their games (even Captain Falcon represents how F-Zero racing is fast, heavy, and explosive). Rosalina has more liberties taken with the Luma assistant and the focus on cosmic-based magic, but she has a cohesive theme and identity as a character that translates easily to a Smash fighter as a magical space princess. With Dixie, you either would have to get very creative with her hair and have her do stuff with it that she doesn't use in the games, or borrow game mechanics from the DKC series (I think I made a moveset once where her down B summons an Animal Buddy).

There's no rules about it either way, I would be fine with Dixie being a Isabelle/Lucas level semi-clone or being totally unique, my point is more just that the character doesn't "pop out" as much to most people because she lacks the immediate and obvious things to stand out from Diddy that some of the other characters have. I kinda see it like Isabelle; people came up with all sorts of creative fan movesets for the sake of hoping to make her unique and stand out, but then she ended up still using Villager heavily as a basis, even though a lot of people tried to argue that Isabelle was too important for that and they would never do that. I don't think there is only one way to crack this egg, but I do personally think Dixie's best shot in future Smash games is as a semi-clone. It's good to campaign for her to be unique, but it really is Sakurai's call at the end of the day.
 
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StormC

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TheYungLink TheYungLink that's all well and good, hopefully I wasn't jumping on you too much. Venting is one thing, but I think it's generally best to not take it out on other characters (which isn't necessarily what you were doing).

For most people Dixie has always been kind of a B-level want, is the thing, she has rarely been the "please god if you could only add one character make it her" character for people. Most people want her in, but few people have her as her favorite. At least, that used to be the case. I would almost think the fact that Banjo is finally in means another titanic speculation character stops taking up so much attention and some of the fans can trickle down into other choices. I know with Banjo-Kazooie and K. Rool in, Dixie is definitely my most wanted character left, but I can also admit that I'm not as obsessed with getting her in as I was with K. Rool, Ridley, Mega Man, and Banjo-Kazooie (hell, even Banjo I didn't think about seriously until K. Rool got in). She would be my primary anchor for Smash 6 speculation but I don't even know if I'll be around for that, honestly.

The key thing is to make sure Dixie doesn't disappear. If new DK games are released and Dixie is not in them in any capacity, we have to communicate to Nintendo that this isn't acceptable and she deserves to be put in the same category as DK and Diddy. The biggest thing keeping Dixie's fanbase from growing right now is the lack of new DK games and the uncertain future of the series. K. Rool still has the new car smell, once we get into Smash 6 there will be more hunger for another DK newcomer and Dixie will be the obvious choice - the fact that Dixie is still highly speculated and wanted despite us just getting K. Rool, an even more popular DK character, shows that the DK series has been seriously hungry for newcomers and Smash fans know it.
 

Kritter

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I was dumbfounded when Dixie didn’t get into Smash 4. Between being cut from Brawl and 4 having an emphasis on female fighters, I thought she was a shoe-in. It feels so weird to think she was so close and now may not even be in consideration, but hopefully the fact that she was planned at one point will help her chances.

On a different note, can anyone explain to me the appeal of Bandana Waddle Dee? I absolutely cannot understand his popularity. I’ve played a ton of Kirby games and can’t even think of what he’s been in. The Wii game? He seems like a generic enemy with no unique personality and I don’t know why he is brought up so much. Dixie seems to be objectively a more deserving pick. If someone can explain to me his popularity I would appreciate it.
 

StormC

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On a different note, can anyone explain to me the appeal of Bandana Waddle Dee? I absolutely cannot understand his popularity. I’ve played a ton of Kirby games and can’t even think of what he’s been in. The Wii game? He seems like a generic enemy with no unique personality and I don’t know why he is brought up so much. Dixie seems to be objectively a more deserving pick. If someone can explain to me his popularity I would appreciate it.
Not sure why you're asking the Dixie thread, but...

He's cute and he has a spear which is a weapon no other Smash character has. He has a variety of moveset options with the spear in the games, including elemental attacks. He's portrayed as the fourth main Kirby character, he's been in every Kirby game since Return To Dream Land as either a playable character or an NPC. He has a fleshed out personality in spin-offs, particularly Battle Royale:


And promo material positions him as the fourth pillar of the Kirby quartet:



No, he's not as big as Dixie, but practically nobody is at this stage.
 

Kritter

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Thanks for the explanation. There must be a few recent Kirby games that I missed. I’m glad you say that he has a unique personality because that explains some of the popularity, but I’m starting to think it comes down to the Kirby fans being louder and/or there are more of them than DK fans.
 

StormC

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Thanks for the explanation. There must be a few recent Kirby games that I missed. I’m glad you say that he has a unique personality because that explains some of the popularity, but I’m starting to think it comes down to the Kirby fans being louder and/or there are more of them than DK fans.
Kirby fans haven’t had a newcomer since Brawl and Smash’s overall lack of non-Sakurai Kirby content is part of the push, people see him as a representative of the post-Sakurai era of Kirby.
 

BirthNote

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Using DK64 as a comparison, it initially gave Diddy tools to work with, namely the Peanut Popguns and the Rocketbarrel Boost. Those made him stand out from every other Kong because nobody else had items just like them (and there's also Chimpy Charge if they really felt like they needed more). Dixie not being in DK64 means she really didn't gain any extra abilities; imagine if she took Tiny's place and had a shrinking power, she would have a whole gimmick right there. The only thing she got in Tropical Freeze was a popgun specifically modeled off of Diddy's. That's what I mean. The public perception of the character because of the games is that her potential is mostly limited to borrowing from Diddy. Her hair hasn't been used in the games besides grabbing, dashing, and flying; certainly enough to stand out, but to most people, not enough to make a whole moveset out of. The fact that most of Diddy's Smash moves are kind of generic monkey attacks means I don't expect a lot different from Dixie, if I'm honest.
I see your point regarding DK64; not starring in that game limits Dixie's scope so we can't stray too far from what we can imagine, but luckily there's a bright spot. Diddy's moveset--when it does pull from source material--is more representative of DK64 than it is of any DKC. He's got more attacks based on that game than he does from the SNES days; that's a result of being the most "normal" Kong of the bunch, but DK's not much...let's call it 'faithful' to what DKC is either. K. Rool is by far more representative of the series than either Kong; with Dixie we potentially have a chance to make a DKC-styled Kong, incorporating elements from the old and new games and DKC3 in particular. Throw in stuff that anyone with a 3rd arm could do in a fight on top of what we see Dixie do canonically and we've got a pool of ideas coalescing.

The characters you listed are somewhat different as they are meant to be representative of a series (except Rosalina). Fox, Olimar, and Captain Falcon are the main characters of their games, meaning they are there to represent the series and all it entails and thus more liberties are taken with them to replicate the feeling of their games (even Captain Falcon represents how F-Zero racing is fast, heavy, and explosive). Rosalina has more liberties taken with the Luma assistant and the focus on cosmic-based magic, but she has a cohesive theme and identity as a character that translates easily to a Smash fighter as a magical space princess. With Dixie, you either would have to get very creative with her hair and have her do stuff with it that she doesn't use in the games, or borrow game mechanics from the DKC series (I think I made a moveset once where her down B summons an Animal Buddy).
Well I'll throw Bowser Jr into the mix as well, and limit my scope for a bit to just him and Rosalina.

During his speculation Jr's biggest criticism was that he's not much different from his dad, and the one thing that makes him stand out only turns him into another Mario clone. He, like Dixie isn't the main character of his role and has looks that are similar to someone else's; he and Dixie were the most obvious to write off despite hints that they can do so much more. Even when the Clown Car was brought up people barely envisioned much around it; how could he possibly fight in a mini mech that does little more than jab with boxing gloves? The Smash team managed to pull it off and take reasonable liberties as they showed the car doing stuff we didn't see in the games...and nobody bats an eye. With the right minds behind it they can do the same with Dixie's hair; a heavy tentacle sprouting from one's head can work for a fighting game as a whip, a helicopter and more. There are many ways to grab, there are many ways to whip one's hair back and forth, and there's tons of angles to do it from. Mac and Marth only have punches and sword attacks but they have a complete moveset; Dixie has more to work with than her hair. We just need to get the ideas flowing.

Also, my point stands in regards to Rosalina as she was perceived as highly unlikely against the likes of Bowser Jr, Toad, Waluigi, Paper Mario, etc and barely a moveset to brainstorm with her. Don't get me wrong she's in my top 10 played fighters list, but a Space Princess with Star Babies is less to go off of than a 5-limbed fighter, especially in a fighting game. Having one more appendage to fight with than most characters already sprouts practical ideas--like unorthodox attacks especially when your hands are busy--and the mechanics of DKC3 are unique to Dixie (...and Kiddy), so a moveset that represents the nature of DKC3 the way Fox/Falcon/Olimar's sets represents their games shouldn't be unfeasible for her. Since there's no character besides K. Rool with a DKC-heavy moveset, Dixie can fill that hole, show her own innate abilities, highlight DKC3 specifically and boast reasonable leaps in her attack potential. Dixie's the only main Kong to use hovercrafts, jet skis, boats and gyrocopters outside of spinoffs, and that was from her main starring game. Add in Animal Buddies and you have a healthy amount of directions you can take.

There's no rules about it either way, I would be fine with Dixie being a Isabelle/Lucas level semi-clone or being totally unique, my point is more just that the character doesn't "pop out" as much to most people because she lacks the immediate and obvious things to stand out from Diddy that some of the other characters have. I kinda see it like Isabelle; people came up with all sorts of creative fan movesets for the sake of hoping to make her unique and stand out, but then she ended up still using Villager heavily as a basis, even though a lot of people tried to argue that Isabelle was too important for that and they would never do that. I don't think there is only one way to crack this egg, but I do personally think Dixie's best shot in future Smash games is as a semi-clone. It's good to campaign for her to be unique, but it really is Sakurai's call at the end of the day.
True, there are no rules about it. My goal has been to show that Dixie's got a lot going for her under the surface; I'm not saying my moveset should get immortalized in a Smash game but I do wanna stir the pot of ideas and keep the creativity bubbling. Right now she's not popping out and she's getting written off; one reason why is people genuinely don't know what she can do, and I wanna show that within reasonable bounds to inspire others and let the appreciation for a 5-limbed chimp with helicopter hair grow. Right now, it's up to us fans to keep her alive in creative ways; now that we have a twitter running we can broadcast those fanmade ideas however they manifest, but one way to stop her detractors is to show she's not simply Girl Diddy.

Unique is my ideal outcome but if we get semi-clone I won't complain, though I do prefer Wolf-Level. Expecting less than Semi-Clone is sadly leading people to keep writing her off to focus on 'bigger fish' and making Dixie less appealing, so I personally wanna inspire many different ideas. I don't wanna give the impression that we should take what we get and shut up. I wanna telegraph the idea that "Dixie's a great character to set foot in the arena; here's a few of MANY reasons why."
 

Planet Cool

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I'm sure someone's pointed this out already (this thread has gotten pretty toxic since I've been away, so I only half-skimmed the last five or so pages), but the reason most King K. Rool supporters pivoted to Banjo and not to Dixie is that we're pretty sure she'll join the series sooner or later. For Christ's sake, guys - she skipped one Donkey Kong Country in 2010 and was regularly featured in spin-offs even in the GameCube and early Wii era. She is in no danger of being forgotten, at least not like Banjo and K. Rool were. I'm a big fan of hers and it's a bummer that it seems she isn't coming to Ultimate, but I don't think that warrants this kind of negativity.

Quoth Mariomaniac45213

I mean, I'm not saying I don't wish the port had had some extra stuff, but I'm not down with this attitude that every port has to "justify its release." To me, the fact that the game is good and can now be enjoyed by millions more people is justification enough, especially given how terrible the game industry is at valuing and preserving its history. If you're content with the Wii U original and don't think the portability, graphical improvements, and/or Funky are worth ten extra bucks, don't buy the port. There's no need to be condescending to those of us who are able to appreciate what it brought to the table.

Also, remember that people from Nintendo like Risa Tabata and Kensuke Tanabe are the ones calling the shots here, not Retro themselves. What goes and doesn't go into the port is entirely their decision.
 
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Mushroomguy12

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I'm sure someone's pointed this out already (this thread has gotten pretty toxic since I've been away, so I only half-skimmed the last five or so pages), but the reason most King K. Rool supporters pivoted to Banjo and not to Dixie is that we're pretty sure she'll join the series sooner or later.
I’ve been “pretty sure” she’d join since she was cut from Brawl.

Several games later, I’m not so sure anymore.
 
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StormC

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I don't think it's really gotten toxic at all. A few people have aired their gripes but it's been pretty minor. Trust me, SmashBoards threads have gotten MUCH WORSE than this. It's downright civil in here.

For what it's worth, I definitely don't think Dixie is a sure thing. It's very possible Sakurai doesn't see her as worthy of standing on her own. That's why we do need to keep fan support consistent and visible, while respectful as always.
 
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RetrogamerMax

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Maybe not a great thing to say in the Dixie thread, but I'd say at this point Bandana Dee is as big as Dixie.
Maybe on Smashboards, but on any online polls Dee is always in the top 5 most notably top 3. So Bandana Dee is still a tons more popular than Dixie.
 
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As a K.Rool and Banjo-Kazooie fan I want Dixie in and 100% support her.

Bear and Bird literally came from Cloud Cuckooland, aka the clouds, for those not familiar with Banjo Tooie :p. So it makes some sense that once the hype and anticipation escalated over the past 6 months, then lots of interest and attention veered towards Bear and Bird and away from others.

Personally, I'm suffering a bit from Smash speculation fatigue so that's affected engagement in regards to jumping in for another round to strongly get behind Dixie.

But having to deal with the dregs of Smash speculation in certain threads (Not the character support threads, this one included, they're great) and wading through the neurotic binjuice narrative about certain franchises that are our lord and savior, that we should be grateful for the "dead" scraps, well that rubbish gets very tiring quickly. And I have better things to do then engage with some of the seemingly popular and well "respected" children on here.

All in the middle of trying to have reasonable and balanced discussion without the passive-aggressive, hyperbole BS.

There is also a strong feeling of satisfaction, but at the same time a slight emptiness knowing that a certain pony tailed chimp is missing.

It's important to keep the conversation going and with a strongly rumoured recent resurgence for DKC, you'd think that would bode well for Dixie.

My 2c.
 

ze9

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Bandana Dee got 10 times as much Dixie's exposure in recent years, so it kinda makes sense.
Eh, the little guy deserves his spot too.

I don't feel that bad about Dixie's fanbase though. We're not as loud as others but she's clearly a fan-favourite.
What really keeps me on my toes is, well... DKC's future as a series. Just a new game alone could skyrocket Dixie's popularity. Meanwhile, if nothing comes out for a long time, getting her in will be harder and harder.
 

StormC

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Speculation burnout is also definitely a thing, 100%. A lot of K. Rool fans already felt it after he got in. Banjo was a bit of a last hurrah in that regard.

Hopefully the new generation of speculators really takes to Dixie Kong and keeps the fire lit. I'm coming up on 30, I don't know how much more I got in me.
 

RetrogamerMax

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So regarding your most wanted characters, who did you get over the years and who are you still waiting for?

Me well, I got Mewtwo back in Melee, Meta Knight and Dedede back in Brawl, got back Mewtwo in Smash 4, got K. Rool, Ridley, and Banjo & Kazooie in Ultimate. Almost 18 years I waited for the last 3 and it was such a emotional moment for me when each of them got in.

I'm still waiting for Goemon, Krystal, Dixie Kong, Porky, and Pig Ganon and I know all these characters will never all be together in Smash like I dream. So I'll probably stick around the speculation scene until at least two more of them get in and than I'll retire from Smash speculation forever as more than half of my dream would be good enough.
 
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Mushroomguy12

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Maybe on Smashboards, but on any online polls Dee is always in the top 5 most notably top 3. So Bandana Dee is still a tons more popular than Dixie.
Yup, that's why there's no excuse for us. People are still asking for him in ENORMOUS quantities even after the Fighter's Pass was all but confirmed to be 3rd Parties and new franchises. Even after his "spirit", which as far as I'm concerned, shouldn't deconfirm anyone by itself, at when it comes to DLC after the Fighter's Pass.
D52Gvg8W0AEgTI-.jpg
He's literally the only 1st Party character in the Top 7 here. Dixie Kong doesn't even make it on the list.
 
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Dinoman96

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It just doesn't seem like Sakurai really thinks much about Bandana Dee.

See, when you look at the other fan favorite characters that didn't make it in, like Krystal, Isaac, Shantae, Geno, Shovel Knight, etc you can see that they were at least given consolation prizes in the form of assist trophies, Mii costumes or notable spirit battles in the single-player modes. Even Dixie got a hat.

Bandana Dee's only presence in Ultimate is that of being an upgrade for the regular Waddle Dee spirit...he didn't even get a spirit battle. I mean, the guy literally wasn't even in Smash 4 in any shape or form, despite that game using Return to Dreamland assets.
 

Justin Little

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A lot of people who would otherwise vote for Dixie jumped on the Banjo train after K. Rool was revealed. I'm curious to see where she will be in the polls now that both are in the game. Nevertheless, she was still pretty high up in the polls during the ballot and pre-Ultimate.
 

Mushroomguy12

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It just doesn't seem like Sakurai really thinks much about Bandana Dee.

See, when you look at the other fan favorite characters that didn't make it in, like Krystal, Isaac, Shantae, Geno, Shovel Knight, etc you can see that they were at least given consolation prizes in the form of assist trophies, Mii costumes or notable spirit battles in the single-player modes. Even Dixie got a hat.

Bandana Dee's only presence in Ultimate is that of being an upgrade for the regular Waddle Dee spirit...he didn't even get a spirit battle. I mean, the guy literally wasn't even in Smash 4 in any shape or form, despite that game using Return to Dreamland assets.
Which is why fan support is so important. Rool and Banjo were similarly ignored until their massive fan outbursts, that's what sustains characters like Waluigi and Dee and that's what COULD sustain Dixie if we were louder.

Dixie got more acknowledgement than Dee in Ultimate, but if this trend keeps going I could see Dee getting more acknowledgement than her in the future.
 
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ze9

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To be fair, Banjo has only been very vocally talked about in the last few months, when the leaks were out of control and when his apparition had already been decided for a long time.
What counts is the ballot, and I'm pretty sure Dixie didn't do too shabby there. She appeared in all the polls, and she got acknowledged in Ultimate, just like all the other fan-favorites that didn't become playable. We just have to keep up the support.
 
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So regarding your most wanted characters, who did you get over the years and who are you still waiting for?
Got Bowser, Wario, Diddy, Sonic, Pac-Man, Duck Hunt, Isabelle, Chrom and Ludwig Von Koopa(who was a joke support even if he's my favourite Koopaling).

Been waiting on Toad and Meowth since Smash 64, Dixie Kong since Brawl, and Bandana Waddle Dee, Impa and/or Tingle since Sm4sh.

I don't even think these guys are particularly obscure or minor Nintendo stars. If you'd told me back during the days of Melee I'd still be waiting for Toad and Dixie Kong after three more installments with bonus character DLC thrown atop the last two I'd have thought you were joking.
 

StormC

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So regarding your most wanted characters, who did you get over the years and who are you still waiting for?
Roughly in order in terms of hype for characters I actively wanted: :ultkrool::ultcloud::ultbanjokazooie::ultmegaman::ultdiddy::ultkingdedede::ultridley::ultmetaknight::ultpalutena::ultwolf:
Still waiting for: Dixie Kong, Bandana Dee, Ganon

I went into Smash 4 wanting both K. Rool and Dixie, towards the tailend of Smash 4 speculation I hopped on the Bandana Dee and Ganon trains, but the only one I'm especially invested in is Dixie. Dixie is definitely a cut above many of the characters already in Smash and poor timing and circumstance has led to her missing out. Hopefully it will be amended in the future.
 
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While I'm big fan of Rare (Especially Donkey Kong & Banjo-Kazooie) and do support Dixie Kong for Smash, I'll be honest I'm not absolutely begging on my knees for her like I was for Banjo-Kazooie and King K. Rool Dixie is cool, But I was always a bigger fan of DK, Diddy Kong and even Chunky Kong.

Also the chance to actually bring back Banjo-Kazooie on a Nintendo console via Super Smash Bros was an oppurtunity that many did not want to pass up and felt like this was their only real chance at some sort of redemption since the "Microsoft Buyout" which is why they were so massively requested, Many also agree that Banjo-Kazooie also feels more like a long lost 1st/2nd Party Nintendo Character rather than your usual 3rd Party or even as a 1st Party Microsoft Xbox character and would have likely made it in Melee back in 2001 if it weren't for the buyout.

I don't have lot of gas left in the tank left to keep rallying for characters after King K.Rool and Banjo-Kazooie and I promised myself that once BK made it in my work here would be done and would leave SmashBoards, But I will stick around until the end of the year once final DLC gets announced and then likely call it quits.

I'm pretty much completely satisfied with the roster ,But my last remaining choices for 1st Party picks that I would still like to see is either a Pokemon (8th Gen Rep) and Dixie Kong.

3rd Party would definitely have to be Crash Bandicoot now that Banjo-Kazooie made it in and if it came down to only one choice then I would have to go with Crash Bandicoot since Pokemon is already well represented and Donkey Kong for the "most part" too.
 
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