The Last Nintendo All-Star: Dixie Kong's Barrel of Support Buddies. New art on Post #8346

Dukemon102

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I consider everything that guy (ZeRo) uploads as a low effort bait for views. So I never care about what he says.
But going on with Dixie. That Reddit poll is very surprising. A lot of people actually want her in. If only we could be more united and vocal like the K. Rool support group was.

I was busy with work and playing DK64 (Forget about 101% it, I'm not a masochist).
But I'm so hyped to play the new Yooka Laylee and the Impossible Lair. It's the third unofficial modern DK I needed after years replaying Returns and Tropical Freeze (Specially Tropical Freeze). Hopefully Playtonic manages to work with the DK franchise again. So DK won't have to deal with 5-15 years hiatuses and being consistenly ignored by Nintendo.
 
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So ZeRo just uploaded a speculation/rumor video. The leaker claims Geno is the final fighters pass character and all future DLC will be smaller budget and we will be getting echo packs. The 1st echo pack consists of Medusa (Yay!), Dry Bowser, and Dark Meta Knight and the 2nd echo pack will be Dixie Kong, Gooigi, and someone else (I forgot). Obviously take this with a huge grain of salt but yeah..

Honestly, Dixie and Medusa are the only ones I really care about in that pack, I think Gooigi, Dry Bowser, and Dark Meta Knight would be better off as alternate costumes.
 
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I think part of the Reddit dominance reflects the help of the Kremling Kampaigners who helped #KrocTheVote for Dixie because they were also wondering #WhereTheHair she was and RT'd the poll link on the Dixie Twitter to help right the #DixieWrong that is the lack of #DixieKong, otherwise referred to by her official position as #TheLastNintendoAllStar.


And yeah, I don't believe Zero is a credible rumor connoisseur. He picks up basically anything that could give him content. He's charismatic and can make a video about anything, which is a compliment and a criticism at the same time.
 
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Hi, this is very late, but speaking as a Dixie Kong fan, please disregard anyone who make a competition out of who is more """deserving""" of a Nintendo character not added to the game yet. On some level, we do think she deserves a spot, and it's okay to believe that she's that deserving, but we generally avoid being confrontational or hierarchical when it comes to ranking her importance "above" other potential newcomers. We know that's not cool.

Also, saying you know that saying "deserving" will "trigger" people and declaring you don't care is real ****ty. Don't ever use "trigger" in any context other than when describing sensitive content that could potentially activate someone's PTSD, that's just being an unlikable edgelord. "Bothered" or "annoyed" are better terms to use.
Cross posting from the newcomer speculation thread. Antics like these only make Dixie fans look bad, we all love Dixie here but please avoid this kind of posturing.
 

SeashoreWar

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I think part of the Reddit dominance reflects the help of the Kremling Kampaigners who helped #KrocTheVote for Dixie because they were also wondering #WhereTheHair she was and RT'd the poll link on the Dixie Twitter to help right the #DixieWrong that is the lack of #DixieKong, otherwise referred to by her official position as #TheLastNintendoAllStar.


And yeah, I don't believe Zero is a credible rumor connoisseur. He picks up basically anything that could give him content. He's charismatic and can make a video about anything, which is a compliment and a criticism at the same time.
#wherethehair is a pretty good hashtag for Dixie lol
 

GAINAX

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So ZeRo just uploaded a speculation/rumor video. The leaker claims Geno is the final fighters pass character and all future DLC will be smaller budget and we will be getting echo packs. The 1st echo pack consists of Medusa (Yay!), Dry Bowser, and Dark Meta Knight and the 2nd echo pack will be Dixie Kong, Gooigi, and someone else (I forgot). Obviously take this with a huge grain of salt but yeah..

If this ends up being true I'd say Sakurai has pretty much made the perfect roster. I've been prepared for Dixie to make it in as an echo and I'd much rather have this than nothing. So long as she's playable, I'll be over the moon. Hopefully she's one of those echo fighters who has lots of differences from their counterpart.
 
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Its been weeks since I said anything, but I feel I have a few worthwhile things for me to add that others have not picked up on in this thread, so I am going to just add a few things.

The Poll's been deleted. Huh... I wonder why.
It was created by a fan of Adol Christin (from the Ys series):
https://smashboards.com/threads/ado...al-falcom-support-thread.489045/post-23577133

Maybe he deleted it because Adol was not doing as well as he was hoping? Who knows though.

So ZeRo just uploaded a speculation/rumor video. The leaker claims Geno is the final fighters pass character and all future DLC will be smaller budget and we will be getting echo packs. The 1st echo pack consists of Medusa (Yay!), Dry Bowser, and Dark Meta Knight and the 2nd echo pack will be Dixie Kong, Gooigi, and someone else (I forgot). Obviously take this with a huge grain of salt but yeah..

That is 99% a fake leak. It was started by someone notorious for making fake leaks over at GameFAQs, and has said among other things for his fake leak that there will be Five Nights At Freddies's Mii costume and a Binding of Isaac Mii costume, and that Piranha Plant would get an Echo Fighter (Deku Baba), and makes claims into the mindset of the development team, which is a pretty obvious tell as far as fake leaks go.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/78017129
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/78039275

The original topics where he made the claims were deleted, but rest assured if even GameFAQs knows this guy is a liar (and I read the claims before they were deleted), there is no reason to take any credence in this at all. ZeRo should have been wary of anyone peddling to claim to have "inside" information considering there are a lot of liars when its comes to fake leaks pertaining to Smash Bros.

Cross posting from the newcomer speculation thread. Antics like these only make Dixie fans look bad, we all love Dixie here but please avoid this kind of posturing.
I very strongly disagree with what you have to say. Dixie Kong is among the few characters left that fit the traditional definition of what it looked to be for a character to make it into Smash Bros. This sort of "bitterness" about the term deserving is a recent phenomenon due to the fact that much of the characters that the Smash Bubble is peddling (especially on the Nintendo side of things) are characters that people would say would have little merit to making it in aside from fanbase popularity (that being said, I fully expect Geno to make it in as DLC due to Sakurai very clearly liking the character).

By "deserving" people mean this: A character that is a major important character in a one of Nintendo's major franchises, that is also popular part of the overall brand to the franchise. Most of these have already been added in at this point. I think the only ones left that do fit this definition are Dixie Kong, Bandana Dee, and a few Mario characters, most notably Toad (whom it is pretty strange no member of the mushroom-people is on the roster when Toad, Captain Toad, and even Toadette all have strong credentials). Waluigi and Paper Mario are some other characters that are well known parts of the Mario brand (though I still think the Toads are a more important priority to be placed on the roster over Waluigi, but I doubt that is going to happen).

Take a look at the Nintendo version of Monopoly:
https://www.mariowiki.com/Nintendo_Monopoly

For the character spaces, Dixie Kong was one of three DK related spaces on it, as well as among the few characters in general for it at this point is still not on the Smash Bros. roster (heck, even Piranha Plant, the only generic Mario enemy on the board, is now a part of the roster).

She is absolutely an iconic and worthy figure head to the DK brand.

She is a character that is on par with the series major actors that were introduced in Melee and Brawl. I am not going to bow down to whatever the Smash Bubble says I should say or think. Even though I am a big fan of Dixie, I try to have a fair appraisal of her. For example, I am pessimistic on her prospects going forward. I do think one thing most people overlook is just what an important part to the DK brand she is, and I think people who overlook this is due to the fact she missed DK64 AND Country Returns.

The reason I feel strongly about this is because I was constantly attacked for eight years straight for defending and promoting Roy's possible return to Smash Bros., which was an incredibly unpopular position among the Smash Bubble (even though Roy himself was highly supported among Smash fans in general to the point of being in the Top 10), because the consensus was among those types that a clone-type fighter had no place on the roster, or that newcomers had to fit other "more important criteria" (like being female, I remember at one point when the Smash Bubble was big on Caeda/Sheeda, and these types would abandon her when Lucina showed up). You should not have to bend your words or opinion just because it is not cool with an internet mob. I am sorry if that is an unpopular opinion now, but it is my perspective as a veteran speculator and character supporter for nearly 20 years.

You should not be afraid to speak up for what you believe and think, even if it is unpopular with the crowd or the most popular people in the crowd. Do not sacrifice who you are to placate people who will be quick to tear you apart for a single different opinion. There is a reason why the social side to this website has a notorious reputation and why so many people have left it already. People want to have their own opinions, and don't want to be attacked for thinking something that is labelled "wrong" by people who simply squat on the internet all day.

""Absorb what is useful. Reject what is useless. Add what is essentially your own."- Bruce Lee

As I said in my Dixie Kong essay, Dixie Kong is one of the few characters left that belongs to a bygone age of Nintendo All-Stars making up the bulk of the roster's newcomers (now it seems to have shifted mostly towards Nintendo "fresh faces" and characters that are notable to gaming in general). Outside of the Mario universe (which has the most visibility of any of Nintendo's franchises by far), the only two major re-occurring characters left not part of the roster that are from major Nintendo franchises are Bandanna Dee and, the girl with the whirl, Dixie Kong.

I posted that essay for a reason. I hope when people speak up for Dixie Kong they use some of the ideas presented within it.

As for favorite female characters in general, I would say my two favorite are Samus and Dixie Kong, which has been the case even from childhood. They are both even among my Top 10 favorite game characters in general regardless of gender. They are just phenomenal game characters in general that are dear to me going back over 20 years. There was a point in the 1990's where they were two of my Top 3 favorite gaming characters in general (with the other character filling out the trifecta being Yoshi).

Those two ladies are not just among the best on the female side of things, but I think personally can roll with the best of the best of the "boys" as well.
 
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I very strongly disagree with what you have to say. Dixie Kong is among the few characters left that fit the traditional definition of what it looked to be for a character to make it into Smash Bros. This sort of "bitterness" about the term deserving is a recent phenomenon due to the fact that much of the characters that the Smash Bubble is peddling (especially on the Nintendo side of things) are characters that people would say would have little merit to making it in aside from fanbase popularity (that being said, I fully expect Geno to make it in as DLC due to Sakurai very clearly liking the character).
My impression with the bitterness around "deserving" is simply that Smash Ultimate is, currently, a miraculous fighting game roster. It's filled way past the brim with Nintendo and third-party all-stars alike, plus lots of beloved side-characters and one-offs beloved snd demanded by fans, and best of all, there were no cuts and previously cut fighters came back. But in the wake of this roster are many people who feel that their favorite characters who did not make it in were more "deserving" than some other characters that are currently playable. While some of them have a point, others who actively resent those "undeserving" characters take it further and lash out against their inclusion. This being the game where "Everyone Is Here", people do not take kindly to this sentiment at all and see it as going against the spirit of this miracle of a video game.

This is not to say I do not sympathize with fans of characters who could not make it into Smash Ultimate, but rather that the bad apples have soured the term by trying to use it as a bludgeon against the fact that this Smash game had the fewest base game newcomers in order to realistically bring every veteran back. However, this particular theory of mine about the bitterness behind "deserving" admittedly does not have much to do with Dixie Kong, I just felt like adding to this part of your post.

By "deserving" people mean this: A character that is a major important character in a one of Nintendo's major franchises, that is also popular part of the overall brand to the franchise. Most of these have already been added in at this point. I think the only ones left that do fit this definition are Dixie Kong, Bandana Dee, and a few Mario characters, most notably Toad (whom it is pretty strange no member of the mushroom-people is on the roster when Toad, Captain Toad, and even Toadette all have strong credentials). Waluigi and Paper Mario are some other characters that are well known parts of the Mario brand (though I still think the Toads are a more important priority to be placed on the roster over Waluigi, but I doubt that is going to happen).
That's generally what I mean when I say "Dixie Kong deserves to be in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate," as well. However, "deserving" has grown to have other meanings within the context of Smash speculation / fan-rallying. Sometimes it means "this old game's character should be remembered and not forgotten because I like them that much" or sometimes it means "this very new Nintendo game made a big impression on me and I their character should make it in before Nintendo possibly leaves it in the dust in the future" or it could mean other things, depending on the person.

To add onto my previous point, however, is that one of the reasons "deserving" has gotten such a bitter reaction as of late is because there are a fair number of people who extend your definition of "deserving". It goes from "A character that is a major important character in a one of Nintendo's major franchises, that is also popular part of the overall brand to the franchise" to "A character that is a major important character in a one of Nintendo's major franchises, that is also popular part of the overall brand to the franchise, and as such should make it in over other, less important characters." You see this sentiment all the time, especially among Nintendo fans who dislike Fire Emblem and dislike that it has "more characters than more (ahem) deserving series". Or they may not use the word "deserving" but instead use descriptors like "too many" which heavily imply that a series like Fire Emblem "does not deserve" that many characters. For fans of such series, it is doubtlessly exhausting and aggravating to hear this sort of thing slung toward your way, especially of your are rallying behind more characters for that series.

Also, your definition of "deserving" is limited to series with recurring central characters like Mario and Kirby, but, as my Fire Emblem example up above has showcased, people around this site clearly do not limit their use of the term "deserving" to only the contexts of those Nintendo series. Which, again, further explains the bitterness behind the term as well as clarifies that, on this site at least, people generally mean different things when they say "deserving" instead of only one commonly agreed-upon definition.

Take a look at the Nintendo version of Monopoly:
https://www.mariowiki.com/Nintendo_Monopoly

For the character spaces, Dixie Kong was one of three DK related spaces on it, as well as among the few characters in general for it at this point is still not on the Smash Bros. roster (heck, even Piranha Plant, the only generic Mario enemy on the board, is now a part of the roster).

She is absolutely an iconic and worthy figure head to the DK brand.

She is a character that is on par with the series major actors that were introduced in Melee and Brawl. I am not going to bow down to whatever the Smash Bubble says I should say or think. Even though I am a big fan of Dixie, I try to have a fair appraisal of her. For example, I am pessimistic on her prospects going forward. I do think one thing most people overlook is just what an important part to the DK brand she is, and I think people who overlook this is due to the fact she missed DK64 AND Country Returns.

The reason I feel strongly about this is because I was constantly attacked for eight years straight for defending and promoting Roy's possible return to Smash Bros., which was an incredibly unpopular position among the Smash Bubble (even though Roy himself was highly supported among Smash fans in general to the point of being in the Top 10), because the consensus was among those types that a clone-type fighter had no place on the roster, or that newcomers had to fit other "more important criteria" (like being female, I remember at one point when the Smash Bubble was big on Caeda/Sheeda, and these types would abandon her when Lucina showed up). You should not have to bend your words or opinion just because it is not cool with an internet mob. I am sorry if that is an unpopular opinion now, but it is my perspective as a veteran speculator and character supporter for nearly 20 years.

You should not be afraid to speak up for what you believe and think, even if it is unpopular with the crowd or the most popular people in the crowd. Do not sacrifice who you are to placate people who will be quick to tear you apart for a single different opinion. There is a reason why the social side to this website has a notorious reputation and why so many people have left it already. People want to have their own opinions, and don't want to be attacked for thinking something that is labelled "wrong" by people who simply squat on the internet all day.

""Absorb what is useful. Reject what is useless. Add what is essentially your own."- Bruce Lee

As I said in my Dixie Kong essay, Dixie Kong is one of the few characters left that belongs to a bygone age of Nintendo All-Stars making up the bulk of the roster's newcomers (now it seems to have shifted mostly towards Nintendo "fresh faces" and characters that are notable to gaming in general). Outside of the Mario universe (which has the most visibility of any of Nintendo's franchises by far), the only two major re-occurring characters left not part of the roster that are from major Nintendo franchises are Bandanna Dee and, the girl with the whirl, Dixie Kong.

I posted that essay for a reason. I hope when people speak up for Dixie Kong they use some of the ideas presented within it.

As for favorite female characters in general, I would say my two favorite are Samus and Dixie Kong, which has been the case even from childhood. They are both even among my Top 10 favorite game characters in general regardless of gender. They are just phenomenal game characters in general that are dear to me going back over 20 years. There was a point in the 1990's where they were two of my Top 3 favorite gaming characters in general (with the other character filling out the trifecta being Yoshi).

Those two ladies are not just among the best on the female side of things, but I think personally can roll with the best of the best of the "boys" as well.
I agree with all the sentiments regarding how worthy and iconic Dixie Kong is here, I just don't feel like trying to position her as more "deserving" than other characters being speculated / wished for will accomplish anything. This is due to the fact that Dixie fans, as well as fans of other Nintendo characters, are currently stuck in a limbo:

Sakurai's statement from last year after the November Smash Direct told everyone that the fighters for the pass are decided, so please stop with the requests. We don't know if "please stop with the requests" applies to the characters being made after the Fighter's Pass or not. If it doesn't, we'll jump on that opportunity and promote the hell out of Dixie, I believe this thread can pull it off, even if we'll need a lot of help, but as of right now it's up in the air; we've taken Sakurai's statement to heart and have avoided making a super huge fuss out of respect in the meantime.

That said, however, during all this uncertainty, when none of us know what is going to happen next, I simply do not see any productive reason for fans of Nintendo characters to get into competitions with each other over who is the most "deserving". Dixie Kong in particular, whose credentials are self-evident, does not need any fans on her behalf trying to size her up as "more deserving" than other characters.

another user said:
Hot Take: Dixie Kong deserves to get into Smash more than any other Nintendo character not in the game.
another user said:
Which Nintendo character deserves a spot over Dixie? Im all ears
The first part of my post I linked earlier was in response to these two posts, which I won't link directly but are in the Newcomer Speculation Thread. My problem with these posts isn't that I disagreed with them, it was that it showed someone trying to use Dixie's status to label others as "not as worthy". I just don't think that's very productive and I'd rather stress Dixie Kong's importance in other ways.

In fact, I have done that, very recently:

I know she's under discussed atm since Donkey Kong Country seems to be on a hiatus right now since the only big news is the Switch port of Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze, but please don't forget about Dixie Kong when discussing potential female characters in Smash.

She may or may not have a completely unique moveset, but many of us Dixie fans feel that she could still be an Isabelle styled semi-clone with a unique special attack or two, plus many unique normal attacks involving her ponytail. We think that if Dixie Kong was going to be an Echo Fighter, she would be in Smash Ultimate already, but it seems that Sakurai is not fond of the idea and, frankly, Isabelle was the bigger "clone that can't be an echo" to prioritize at the time, so I can see why she was the only semi-clone newcomer in Smash Ultimate.

If we get further DLC that isn't a pack and may just be standalone characters, we think Dixie Kong could be among them depending on if Nintendo wants to sell any more Nintendo characters. I firmly believe Dixie Kong's inclusion would be a huge deal, and that she should be as discussed as the other potential female newcomers this thread brings up.

For those interested, here's her support thread: https://smashboards.com/threads/the...ost-8260-for-some-secret-instructions.446464/

This post from that thread is a great summation of the merits of Dixie Kong in particular.

I hope this doesn't come across as shilling or anything. It's better for women to discuss among themselves about this topic, so I was originally only planning to contribute with the tweet I linked on the first page, then more or less just stay out of the talk to just listen. I just noticed a Dixie Kong-shaped hole in the discussion was all.
This was in a thread in General Discussion regarding the frustration some fans felt regarding the current lack of female characters in the Fighter's Pass besides Kazooie. I saw people weren't talking up Dixie, so I posted that, and within that post, I linked not only to this thread but your own essay. It got a favorable response within that thread, and people talked about Dixie when previously they weren't.

I just think that this is more conducive to positivity regarding Dixie rather than saying she's more deserving in comparison to other characters. Within our current predicament (the aforementioned "limbo" causes in part by Sakurai's statement last year), it's all we can really do. Without any clarity on whether Dixie could be Fighter Pack #5 (I doubt it) or part of the additional DLC that is being developed should Nintendo decide they want Nintendo characters as DLC again, we are stuck, plain and simple. So I feel that, as a bunch of Nintendo fans currently stuck between a rock and a hard place, that we should make that little uncomfortable space between those two things as comfortable as possible.

Lastly, there is your raising up of Dixie as this very important figure within Nintendo, which I 100% agree with. So, if we can't (or rather, I don't want us to) position her as "the most deserving", what's the best way to raise her status?

Well, it's already staring us in the face: Dixie Kong, as the thread title states, is "The Last Nintendo All-Star".

In this post-all-star era, where most Nintendo all-stars are in Smash Ultimate, and, as a result, where most Nintendo requests today come from more recent games or from side characters in existing ones (when they're not dominated by third-party character requests, I mean), it all looks like fair game. This is DLC, not base game, so the rules are different, they're looser, and so lots of characters that don't fit the traditional definition you gave for "deserving" are all likely and possible.

But none of this necessarily makes Dixie Kong less important. Dixie Kong has a strength behind her, which, ironically, is that she is the most commonly described as "missing". The other characters who get described this way as much as Dixie Kong are Waluigi and Badanna Waddle Dee. Waluigi has popularity behind him, but is not a core part of the cast of the main series Mario games, instead he is a core part of Mario spin-off games (which I don't want to downplay too much, Mario spin-offs are clearly very popular); Bandanna Waddle Dee, on the other hand, is a core part of the Kirby series, but his problem is the opposite of Dixie Kong's—he was not heavily featured in older games of his series, but is heavily featured in newer games. Meanwhile, Dixie Kong was a core member of the DKC series, starting with the second game in the series, DKC2 (one of the most beloved and bestselling games in the series), continuing with the overlooked DKC3, and then most recently in DKC: Tropical Freeze.

People may call Dixie Kong "missing" the most out of anyone else because she was a core part of the DKC series pretty much from the start, compared to Waluigi and Bandanna Waddle Dee whose importance came later. As such, her absence is felt among the strongest.

This is not to downplay the feelings of Waluigi and Bandanna Waddle Dee fans. I do not feel that they are "less deserving" than Dixie Kong. If they make it in before her, we should not grumble nor grouse. All I'm saying is that Dixie Kong's importance within the Donkey Kong franchise has been around longer, and thus people have had more time to accept that she is integral to the series' identity. So, Dixie Kong is "The Last Nintendo All-Star" that is a core part of their series. And that signifier means something to a lot more people than we generally think.

So, moving forward, let's make that the thing we keep referring back to. It's the strongest tool we have to get people to see Dixie Kong in a more grand light. And let's not, intentionally or accidentally, trample over other Nintendo character requests in the meantime.
 
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My impression with the bitterness around "deserving" is simply that Smash Ultimate is, currently, a miraculous fighting game roster. It's filled way past the brim with Nintendo and third-party all-stars alike, plus lots of beloved side-characters and one-offs beloved snd demanded by fans, and best of all, there were no cuts and previously cut fighters came back. But in the wake of this roster are many people who feel that their favorite characters who did not make it in were more "deserving" than some other characters that are currently playable. While some of them have a point, others who actively resent those "undeserving" characters take it further and lash out against their inclusion. This being the game where "Everyone Is Here", people do not take kindly to this sentiment at all and see it as going against the spirit of this miracle of a video game.
Fair enough. Sakurai said the same that he was disappointed that some people were still disappointed with Ultimate's roster even with no cuts happening, and said that he pretty much learned you cannot please everyone. As I said before, this roster is a miracle plain and simple. It gave me 95% of everything I ever wanted in Smash Bros.

I never ever thought we would ever get a Smash Bros. roster with this kind of roster. Ridley and every veteran returning alone are things I thought were unlikely to ever happen after Smash 4's release. Heck, Dark Samus making it defied all the traditional expectations on what characters are capable of making it in (and she was not a shock character like Piranha Plant was).

This is not to say I do not sympathize with fans of characters who could not make it into Smash Ultimate, but rather that the bad apples have soured the term by trying to use it as a bludgeon against the fact that this Smash game had the fewest base game newcomers in order to realistically bring every veteran back. However, this particular theory of mine about the bitterness behind "deserving" admittedly does not have much to do with Dixie Kong, I just felt like adding to this part of your post.
I can sympathize with them. However, they also need to realize that not every character can make the roster, or even has the qualifications (in most normal circumstances) to make it.

There are some Nintendo characters that I really like that I know will never make it on the roster. Pico is one of them. He is my favorite F-Zero character, which is one of my favorite Nintendo franchises in general. F-Zero has been a dead franchise for nearly 15 years (it now has been dead longer than it for how long it received games 1990 to 2004, as opposed to 2004 to 2019).

However, Pico simply receiving a role in the World of Light where you got to control his machine (Wild Goose) made me really happy. It was not even a Mii costume or Assist Trophy role. Just seeing a character you really appreciate get some sort of notice feels really special, even if they are not part of the roster, and I think many lose sight of that.

Personally, I liked the spirit system for this reason as it gave nearly every minor Nintendo character some sort of shout out.

That's generally what I mean when I say "Dixie Kong deserves to be in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate," as well. However, "deserving" has grown to have other meanings within the context of Smash speculation / fan-rallying. Sometimes it means "this old game's character should be remembered and not forgotten because I like them that much" or sometimes it means "this very new Nintendo game made a big impression on me and I their character should make it in before Nintendo possibly leaves it in the dust in the future" or it could mean other things, depending on the person.
I am unfamiliar with how the term "deserving" has been twisted to meet the definitions of the character being championed by the user saying the term. However, even during pre-Smash 4, people would say a character had special qualifications over other characters simply due to them being female or a villain. I always thought those arguments were silly. Ridley for example, was a villain, but he was different from say Ghirahim, in the sense that he was one of the main figures to his respective franchise, while the latter was likely a one-off, to use an example. Simply ticking a box is not enough. Sure Dixie is female, but she is not valuable because she is simply female, the same way Ridley is a villain, but he was not an important addition simply due to being one of Metroid's villains, but rather they are integral and iconic parts to their respective franchises.

To add onto my previous point, however, is that one of the reasons "deserving" has gotten such a bitter reaction as of late is because there are a fair number of people who extend your definition of "deserving". It goes from "A character that is a major important character in a one of Nintendo's major franchises, that is also popular part of the overall brand to the franchise" to "A character that is a major important character in a one of Nintendo's major franchises, that is also popular part of the overall brand to the franchise, and as such should make it in over other, less important characters." You see this sentiment all the time, especially among Nintendo fans who dislike Fire Emblem and dislike that it has "more characters than more (ahem) deserving series". Or they may not use the word "deserving" but instead use descriptors like "too many" which heavily imply that a series like Fire Emblem "does not deserve" that many characters. For fans of such series, it is doubtlessly exhausting and aggravating to hear this sort of thing slung toward yourneay, especially of your are rallying behind more characters for that series.
I am not sure this has been stated, but I think with Fire Emblem, the reason it got so many characters is due to special circumstances. Four of the seven characters are based off of a single character (Marth). Roy was a last minute character addition. Lucina was a last minute character addition. Chrom was likely a last minute character addition. Ike and Robin were the only two newcomers after Marth who were intended from the beginning (Sakurai intended on a Fire Emblem newcomer at the beginning of the project for for both Brawl and Smash 4, though not specifically Ike and Robin).

With Corrin, again it was special circumstances. Sakurai was given the directive by Nintendo to select a character to help promote one of their upcoming titles (think Nintendo titles released in 2015). This is pretty similar what happens with Pokemon (where the Pokemon Company tells Sakurai to include a Pokemon newcomer, but allows the selection up to Sakurai).

The three biggest 2015 titles at the time for Nintendo were Splatoon, Xenoblade X, and Fire Emblem Fates. Splatoon was an unproven franchise, so Sakurai was probably naturally skeptical of including a full newcomer from it even though it was being developed by Nintendo themselves. Xenoblade X is a bit strange, but even then, Sakurai said of Shulk that he was a character that he normally would not have included as a newcomer in Smash Bros. (I feel Xenoblade did not decisively become one of Nintendo's most notable franchises until Xenoblade 2's release, of which even Sakurai felt he wanted to include Rex, but due to timing was unable to include him).

This naturally left Fates, which was not just one game, but three. It also was a game from an established franchise, and coming off Awakening, which had been the the most popular game in the franchise since the Super Famicom days. Sakurai also probably looked at the precedent of Roy, and how well received he was. So Sakurai went with Corrin as the character to promote a 2015 Nintendo release.

Fire Emblem only has four fully unique fighters, with the remainder being a semi-clone, and two echoes (the cloniest type of clone in most circumstances). Its the same kind of thinking where people think Dr. Mario being on the roster, took a spot from a fully unique character being on the roster.

The same kind of thing happened with Star Fox. Both Falco and Wolf were last minute additions, and there was griping about Star Fox having too many characters during the pre-Smash 4 days as well.

I think people need to have a little more critical thinking.

However, I can sympathize with people who think Fire Emblem has received enough focus in Smash Bros., and that other franchises need to be looked at more, whether already on the roster or not there yet. I think for many Fire Emblem characters in general though, the popularity for many characters comes and goes (see the example I mentioned of Caeda for how much of her Smash Bubble popularity dissipated, the same also happened with Micaiah).

Also, your definition of "deserving" is limited to series with recurring central characters like Mario and Kirby, but, as my Fire Emblem example up above has showcased, people around this site clearly do not limit their use of the term "deserving" to only the contexts of those Nintendo series. Which, again, further explains the bitterness behind the term as well as clarifies that, on this site at least, people generally mean different things when they say "deserving" instead of only one commonly agreed-upon definition.
Yes, I can see with that. I meant more along the lines of the traditional definition, particularly, "Nintendo All-Star". However, I feel that many now don't see it through through that lens. Ultimate now actually has nearly as many third-party newcomers as Nintendo ones (7 third-party newcomers as opposed to 9 Nintendo newcomers). The focus has changed.

Even with Smash 4, the focus was given on promoting a mix of fresh faces (Rosalina, Robin, Corrin, Greninja, Lucina, Dark Pit, arguably Palutena) and adding new franchises to the roster (Little Mac, Villager, Wii Fit Trainer, Mii's). I think the focus towards third-parties in general began with Smash 4's DLC (where 3 of the 4 newcomers were third-party).

There is also the fact that in general, the characters that would be seen as "Nintendo All-Stars" have mostly been added in at this point. Ridley and K. Rool I feel scratched an itch for most "old guard" Smash Bros. fans, and do not feel like championing the few things left that would seem like conspicuous absences to Smash fans circa the first three games of the series. Many of these people held on for Banjo-Kazooie (especially K. Rool fans) as their last hurrah, and with upcoming DLC seeming to be exclusively third-party (at least in the case of newcomers), just want to move on with their lives at this point, and don't want to argue with people for that remaining 5%, which is very understandable (I feel the same).

I agree with all the sentiments regarding how worthy and iconic Dixie Kong is here, I just don't feel like trying to position her as more "deserving" than other characters being speculated / wished for will accomplish anything. This is due to the fact that Dixie fans, as well as fans of other Nintendo characters, are currently stuck in a limbo:

Sakurai's statement from last year after the November Smash Direct told everyone that the fighters for the pass are decided, so please stop with the requests. We don't know if "please stop with the requests" applies to the characters being made after the Fighter's Pass or not. If it doesn't, we'll jump on that opportunity and promote the hell out of Dixie, I believe this thread can pull it off, even if we'll need a lot of help, but as of right now it's up in the air; we've taken Sakurai's statement to heart and have avoided making a super huge fuss out of respect in the meantime.
Its a bit of a Catch-22. Dixie needs promotion to get in, but at the same time she can't build a fanbase without seeming like realistic circumstances for her to get in. Even still, you have the example of Bandana Dee still doing well in polls as this time. I think Dixie fans should try at every opportunity to think of ways to speak up or promote her. However, again, there is only so much we can do, especially since most of us do not have the time or passion to build a massive online support base.

That said, however, during all this uncertainty, when none of us know what is going to happen next, I simply do not see any productive reason for fans of Nintendo characters to get into competitions with each other over who is the most "deserving". Dixie Kong in particular, whose credentials are self-evident, does not need any fans on her behalf trying to size her up as "more deserving" than other characters.
This is a point where I am going to strongly disagree. We should talk up her credentials as much as possible. I don't think people really realize just how much of a trailblazer she was. Even compared to characters like Lara Croft, Dixie was revolutionary and perhaps even more so. Dixie managed to become extremely popular even in the 1990's, when the gaming industry cared little to appeal to demographics outside of boys and young men. Dixie got top billing in a stand alone title that she had to share with a big baby sidekick released AFTER the 64's release and 3D gaming really took off, and it still managed to be among the Top 10 best selling games for the SNES. That is really impressive, especially for 1996/1997 and for a 2D game and the kind of protagonists DKC3 had.

Aside from "Nintendo All-Star", a meme that really needs to be hammered about Dixie Kong is that she has "Mario appeal". She is loved by a cross section of many demographics despite her unorthodox design due to her fun gameplay mechanics and personality charm, and her appreciation as a female hero, is not because she is female, but because she is simply a great character in general (just like Mario is not loved due to his character design, but due to factors related to his personality charm, games, and gameplay). I feel with time, if people really look at her, they are going to realize that Dixie not just stacks up well compared to possible Nintendo newcomers, but also with the characters from her own franchise and gaming a whole. She really could have been the Wario to the DK brand had Rare chosen to go that route (her prehensile hair has a lot of applications to it that would be very well suited for a spinoff). One could imagine a Metroidvania-style game with Dixie as the protagonist going through Rare's atmospheric environments and a moody soundtrack composed by David Wise and Evalyn Fischer.

Dixie Kong embraces femininity, but, is also appealing to everyone. I don't think people understand how profound that is. When games make female characters they are usually either characters designed to appeal to the sex drive of of the largest consumer demographic (average young adult males) or written or designed as basically neutral or non-gender beings (think Link and Samus). Dixie is a character who has feminine characteristics outside of sex appeal or being a romantic partner totem (waifuism), but also subverts some expectations placed upon femininity especially within the medium of storytelling (she is very assertive and has never been kidnapped, which is a fate that has happens many times in the DK stars, and even to co-stars DK and Diddy, twice).

I said this before, but I feel she might very well be the pinnacle of Rare's character designs.

The first part of my post I linked earlier was in response to these two posts, which I won't link directly but are in the Newcomer Speculation Thread. My problem with these posts isn't that I disagreed with them, it was that it showed someone trying to use Dixie's status to label others as "not as worthy". I just don't think that's very productive and I'd rather stress Dixie Kong's importance in other ways.

In fact, I have done that, very recently:
I appreciate you linking my post. I hope it convinced a few naysayers about Dixie's worth and merit. Thank you.

This was in a thread in General Discussion regarding the frustration some fans felt regarding the current lack of female characters in the Fighter's Pass besides Kazooie. I saw people weren't talking up Dixie, so I posted that, and within that post, I linked not only to this thread but your own essay. It got a favorable response within that thread, and people talked about Dixie when previously they weren't.
Again, thank you.

I just think that this is more conducive to positivity regarding Dixie rather than saying she's more deserving in comparison to other characters. Within our current predicament (the aforementioned "limbo" causes in part by Sakurai's statement last year), it's all we can really do. Without any clarity on whether Dixie could be Fighter Pack #5 (I doubt it) or part of the additional DLC that is being developed should Nintendo decide they want Nintendo characters as DLC again, we are stuck, plain and simple. So I feel that, as a bunch of Nintendo fans currently stuck between a rock and a hard place, that we should make that little uncomfortable space between those two things as comfortable as possible.
I do agree there is not much that can be done right now unfortunately. I think its a matter of delivery. We should be polite about Dixie's credentials. I don't think we should outright name particular characters, but we should be able to say things like "Dixie is one of the few characters left that would fit right in with Brawl's newcomer pool." Basically, build Dixie up, as opposed to tearing other characters down.

Lastly, there is your raising up of Dixie as this very important figure within Nintendo, which I 100% agree with. So, if we can't (or rather, I don't want us to) position her as "the most deserving", what's the best way to raise her status?

Well, it's already staring us in the face: Dixie Kong, as the thread title states, is "The Last Nintendo All-Star".
I feel while there are several other iconic Nintendo characters not already in Smash Bros. (most of them on the Mario side of things) that can also be called Nintendo All-Stars, Dixie is really the only character left that really screams Nintendo All-Star. Bandana Dee and Waluigi are among the most recognizable parts of their franchises, but they are not an incredible part to their respective series identity as Dixie is.

I think the only other one that could argue that for is Toad (the Mushroom people in general are an incredibly important part to the Mario brand). Though for Toad, I think might be hurt by being seen as much of a "NPC" as he/they (since I am lumping Toadette as part of the "Toad" brand) are seen as one of the main protagonists.

In this post-all-star era, where most Nintendo all-stars are in Smash Ultimate, and, as a result, where most Nintendo requests today come from more recent games or from side characters in existing ones (when they're not dominated by third-party character requests, I mean), it all looks like fair game. This is DLC, not base game, so the rules are different, they're looser, and so lots of characters that don't fit the traditional definition you gave for "deserving" are all likely and possible.
Sakurai simply cannot be predicted. I never would have guessed Dark Samus, Richter, and Piranha Plant would ever be playable in a Smash Bros. game (for Dark Samus I felt her boat sailed after Brawl's release). Special circumstances can arise to make many characters we deem "impossible" or "unlikely" be made to be as part of the roster. We can make some informed speculation, but ultimately, we will be blindsided a lot of the time.

But none of this necessarily makes Dixie Kong less important. Dixie Kong has a strength behind her, which, ironically, is that she is the most commonly described as "missing". The other characters who get described this way as much as Dixie Kong are Waluigi and Badanna Waddle Dee. Waluigi has popularity behind him, but is not a core part of the cast of the main series Mario games, instead he is a core part of Mario spin-off games (which I don't want to downplay too much, Mario spin-offs are clearly very popular); Bandanna Waddle Dee, on the other hand, is a core part of the Kirby series, but his problem is the opposite of Dixie Kong's—he was not heavily featured in older games of his series, but is heavily featured in newer games. Meanwhile, Dixie Kong was a core member of the DKC series, starting with the second game in the series, DKC2 (one of the most beloved and bestselling games in the series), continuing with the overlooked DKC3, and then most recently in DKC: Tropical Freeze.

People may call Dixie Kong "missing" the most out of anyone else because she was a core part of the DKC series pretty much from the start, compared to Waluigi and Bandanna Waddle Dee whose importance came later. As such, her absence is felt among the strongest.
I agree with this. I do think Waluigi and Bandana Dee could very well be the next generation's Ridley and K. Rool (the most wanted Nintendo characters by a very large margin, especially if they are not DLC for Ultimate). Dixie by contrast is simply the last piece of the puzzle for old guard Nintendo and Smash Bros. fans. There are younger fans that know of Dixie's importance, but they did not grow up with her like much of us did (unless they had the GBA DKC ports, or had the titles bought off the Virtual Console). The only major focus Dixie had during this decade was Tropical Freeze, in comparison to Bandana Dee being prominent in nearly every Kirby title released during the 2010's, and Waluigi having near perfect attendance in Mario spinoffs.

This is not to downplay the feelings of Waluigi and Bandanna Waddle Dee fans. I do not feel that they are "less deserving" than Dixie Kong. Of they make it in before her, we should not grumble nor grouse. All I'm saying is that Dixie Kong's importance within the Donkey Kong franchise has been around longer, and thus people have had more time to accept that she is integral to the series' identity. So, Dixie Kong is "The Last Nintendo All-Star" that is a core part of their series. And that signifier means something to a lot more people than we generally think.
That is a good way of putting it. Dixie Kong has cemented herself as part of the core identity to her franchise. I think in time Bandana Dee will get there for Kirby (he really needs his own name in my opinion, they should have called him Bandy starting with Return to Dream Land like they originally intended). Waluigi I think might possibly make the jump outside of spinoffs like Toadette did, probably to a Luigi's Mansion title or Wario Land/Ware title, or even his own spinoff.

I do think both are much more likely than Dixie to make it in Smash's roster though. Both have far louder requests for them than Dixie, as well as a much more secure future in their own respective franchises than her (another DK title being made is likely years away, and even if another one is made, there is no guarantee she will be in it as DK64 and Returns have shown).

So, moving forward, let's make that the thing we keep referring back to. It's the strongest tool we have to get people to see Dixie Kong in a more grand light. And let's not, intentionally or accidentally, trample over other Nintendo character requests in the meantime.
I appreciate you taking the time to further explain yourself, and thus being able to gain a better look into what you were trying say/convey. I do agree we should not put down other characters. I do think Dixie has one of the strongest resumes as far as Nintendo not yet part on the roster though, however, we should explain just why this is the case, and just how groundbreaking Dixie was and how she in general is such an integral part of the DK brand.

Again, I will re-iterate, when the topic of female characters or Dixie's worth in general comes up, we really need to ham up the idea of "Mario appeal", and how not just she is one of the few female characters to have it, but also gaming characters in general.
 
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By "deserving" people mean this: A character that is a major important character in a one of Nintendo's major franchises, that is also popular part of the overall brand to the franchise. Most of these have already been added in at this point. I think the only ones left that do fit this definition are Dixie Kong, Bandana Dee, and a few Mario characters, most notably Toad (whom it is pretty strange no member of the mushroom-people is on the roster when Toad, Captain Toad, and even Toadette all have strong credentials). Waluigi and Paper Mario are some other characters that are well known parts of the Mario brand (though I still think the Toads are a more important priority to be placed on the roster over Waluigi, but I doubt that is going to happen).
I think Impa also fits into this category, considering how huge Hyrule Warriors has become. (Yeah, yeah, it's a spin off, but that's where Waluigi and Daisy get most of their credentials from, Waluigi wouldn't even exist without Spinoffs and he’s a behemoth in the fanbase now). Especially considering how the Wii U never really got an exclusive main series Zelda game (and didn't even have a new main series title at all until BOTW, which was shared with an newer console rather than an older one like the Wii and Twilight Princess), Hyrule Warriors was pretty much the biggest thing we had for Zelda for almost the entirety of the Wii U generation, to the point that it's still being sold for full price on Switch just like Tropical Freeze. Adding to her credentials is her major story roles in some of the biggest games in the Zelda series like OOT and Skyward Sword, and the fact that she was the only nonoriginal non Tri Force wielding character to stand in the main cast of Hyrule Warrior's main story rather than being from one of the other worlds. Obviously Dixie is at the top, but if your including Bandanna Dee and Paper Mario you might as well include her as well.

I would also talk about characters from smaller series like Rex and Isaac, but I guess they don't really fit your definition since neither of them are from major franchises. They would more be passion characters like Krystal then outright All-Stars anyway.
 
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Dinoman96

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Hyrule Warriors wasn't published by Nintendo in Japan and doesn't even have any spirits in Ultimate. Let's not get ahead of ourselves here, lol
 
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Hyrule Warriors wasn't published by Nintendo in Japan and doesn't even have any spirits in Ultimate. Let's not get ahead of ourselves here, lol
And was still the best selling original Zelda game for almost the Wii U’s entire lifecycle until BOTW came out, in which the system was on its deathbed (and was dwarfed by the Switch version anyway).
 
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Dinoman96

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And was still the best selling Zelda game for almost the Wii U’s entire lifecycle until BOTW came out, in which the system was on its deathbed (and was dwarfed by the Switch version anyway).
Do we have concrete sales figures for HW (at least for Wii U)?

According to this thread on ERA, Wind Waker HD sold the most at over 2 million. I heard awhile back that Koei Tecmo said HW shipped a million, but that was it.
 
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See, that's the thing though. It was literally the only non-port Zelda game on Wii U (before BOTW) lol

It just seems really weird to boast how it was the best selling original Zelda game when there was literally no competition.
And it was that lack of competition that made it stand out more. If we did have an actual Zelda game on it, then maybe it wouldn’t be as iconic.
Waluigi doesn’t even exist in any main Mario platformers, and characters like Daisy and Birdo haven’t shown up on them in years. Yet they are all beloved Mario staples. Mario Kart and Mario Party have sometimes outsold the main series.

Impa herself does regularly appear in main series Zelda games, and some of the biggest ones at that. Her role isn’t exactly small either, she is a major player in the story compared to most NPCs outside the Triforce Trio.
 

Crepuscular

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This is anecdotal of course, but I'm constantly reading smash fan comments on reddit, twitter, youtube, etc. and I really feel like support for Dixie has risen A LOT right now as compared to a year or even six months ago. I'm seeing her name get dropped everywhere now (uh, and also doing it myself lol <3).

K. Rool being in now has helped a lot obviously, but I think Fighters Pass #1 turning out to be a huge sausage-fest is driving people to Dixie too (and other female characters, but especially first-party Nintendo female characters, of which there really aren't a ton left).
 
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^I've also noticed a lot more people on Twitter supporting Dixie, however in my own anecdotal experience, I don't see her brought up a lot with regards to female characters specifically. What I see is more conventionally attractive humanoid characters like Lara Croft, Pauline, Shantae, etc. being talked about while Dixie is more in the category of "first parties" or "echo material".

I guess that means Dixie Kong transcends gender.
 

DX_E

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The Dixie Kong for Smash twitter looks like it's doing great! Almost at 400 followers. Maybe it can get to 500 before the end of the year. I love that new Dixie Kong twitter account as well (@KongDixie) It comes out with some krazy weird awesome.
 

Troykv

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How are you doing with the campaign, Dixie buddies? It has been a while since the last time I appeared here.
 
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BirthNote

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So ZeRo just uploaded a speculation/rumor video. The leaker claims Geno is the final fighters pass character and all future DLC will be smaller budget and we will be getting echo packs. The 1st echo pack consists of Medusa (Yay!), Dry Bowser, and Dark Meta Knight and the 2nd echo pack will be Dixie Kong, Gooigi, and someone else (I forgot). Obviously take this with a huge grain of salt but yeah..

Yea, I watched the video and the Gooigi / Dixie Kong part sounds like BS. It seems like a giant ***-pull to round out the rest of the leak, which is likely a hoax.
 
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"Yooka-Laylee and the Impossible Lair" is finally out today and the great news is that so far it has received mostly positive reviews and even though I prefer Donkey Kong's universe and characters, This game looks like it might scratch that Donkey Kong Country itch until we get a new one (Hopefully soon).

Playtonic Games showed off that they are more than capable off developing a very good quality 2D platformer by looking back at their Rareware Donkey Kong Country roots as well as taking notes on Retro Studios modern take on the series as well.

I'm sorry if I sound like a broken record, But that's just because I have been a such a big advocater of the idea and really hope they pitch themselves and others will push for them too, But I really hope this is the game that makes Nintendo take notice and have them take shot at the Donkey Kong franchise for a while, With Nintendo backing them Playtonic Games can probably expand their team or maybe even have co-development support from Retro Studios (That is if they have some expendable staff/resources seeing how they are currently in early development of Metroid Prime 4 and they also had outside support for Tropical Freeze) That way the Donkey Kong IP can finally have a dedicated studio/team to consistently output not just only games for the Country series, But maybe even spinoffs or a 3D Platformer too.
 
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smashkirby

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"Yooka-Laylee and the Impossible Lair" is finally out today and the great news is that so far it has received mostly positive reviews and even though I prefer Donkey Kong's universe and characters, This game looks like it might scratch that Donkey Kong Country itch until we get a new one (Hopefully soon).

Playtonic Games showed off that they are more than capable off developing a very good quality 2D platformer by looking back at their Rareware Donkey Kong Country roots as well as taking notes on Retro Studios modern take on the series as well.

I'm sorry if I sound like a broken record, But that's just because I have been a such a big advocater of the idea and really hope they pitch themselves and others will push for them too, But I really hope this is the game that makes Nintendo take notice and have them take shot at the Donkey Kong franchise for a while, With Nintendo backing them Playtonic Games can probably expand their team or maybe even have co-development support from Retro Studios (That is if they have some expendable staff/resources seeing how they are currently in early development of Metroid Prime 4 and they also had outside support for Tropical Freeze) That way the Donkey Kong IP can finally have a dedicated studio/team to consistently output not just only games for the Country series, But maybe even spinoffs or a 3D Platformer too.
As I've said, Playtonic is (mostly) composed of ex-Rare employees. Nintendo gives them DK, and they'll most likely know where to take the Kong family and the Kremilngs.
 

Mariomaniac45213

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Playing through Impossible Lair right now. The game is already a massive improvement over the original game Im only 4 levels in but I gotta say the soundtrack has yet to grab me (hoping they get a bit more "bouncy" later on..) and sometimes its hard to decipher where a secret is or whats part of the actual stage (as in what you can jump on or not). Also their is quite a bit of "oops you missed this collectible and it was your only shot to get it without retrying the entire level".

But other than those minor nitpicks I'm having a real good time with the game and would love for Nintendo to hand the keys over to Playtonic for a DK game or Nintendo just make Playtonic another "2nd party" like Retro Studios, Monolith Soft, Intelligent Systems, Next Level Games, Monster Games, Hal Lab., Good-Feel, ND Cube, etc.
 

Dinoman96

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But other than those minor nitpicks I'm having a real good time with the game and would love for Nintendo to hand the keys over to Playtonic for a DK game or Nintendo just make Playtonic another "2nd party" like Retro Studios, Monolith Soft, Intelligent Systems, Next Level Games, Monster Games, Hal Lab., Good-Feel, ND Cube, etc.
For the record, Retro and Monolith are actually subsidiaries of Nintendo, they're not just affiliated developers like HAL Labs, Next Level or AlphaDream (RIP).
 
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