The Knights of Galar - Zacian and Zamazenta for Smash

Which would you rather see get in Smash as a newcomer?

  • Zacian

  • Zamazenta


Results are only viewable after voting.

Cosmic77

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#1
Zacian and Zamazenta

home-char-sword-1559743084206.png
home-char-shield-1559743084203.png



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Overview
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Zacian and Zamazenta are a pair of wolflike Legendary Pokémon from the latest entry in the Pokemon series, Pokémon Sword and Shield. Not much is currently known about these Pokemon, although it is said that Zacian holds a shining blade in its mouth that can cut through anything, while Zamazenta turns back any attack with the gleaming shield that covers its body.


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Why These Two?
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Well, why not? Pokemon tend to be unique from the rest of the roster, don't they? I'd also like to see something besides a starter get in. We've gotten a starter Pokemon as a newcomer in every Smash game since Brawl. Even if the resulting character is fresh, a lot of the fun has been siphoned away from speculation because of this. Many unique and creative Pokemon are passed over in favor of one of the three safest and most obvious options, the starters. I think it's time we get something a little more unpredictable.

But why these two specifically you ask? Well, I could probably make a stronger argument for the pair as we learn more about them, but I feel like the designs speak for themselves. A quad character is already an unusual and rare thing for Smash, but having a quad with a sword or a shield would be extremely creative. Without even knowing what moves it can use, Zacian already has a huge chunk of it's moveset mapped out thanks to its sword, and because it's a Pokemon, I'm sure there's more to that sword than meets the eye. For those of you who don't care how creative Zacian could be because a swordfighter is a swordfighter, Zamazenta could be a very defensive character with multiple ways of deflecting, blocking, and counterattacking - a nice contrast to the abundance of characters that require aggressive, offensive playstyles.


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Questions & Answers
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Q: What could they do?

Aside from what I already explained, I couldn't tell ya. I'll need to learn a little more before I can really make my case for how unique they could be. Learning their type would be a good start.

Q: Isn't it way too late for these two?

Maybe, maybe not. Just depends on whether or not Nintendo would deem Sword and Shield worthy enough of a character. A second wave would help our chances tremendously though.

But a lack of time shouldn't be an issue. Aside from Piranha Plant, we know that Sakurai didn't start on DLC until after November 1st. If a Pokemon from Sword and Shield was one of the five characters Nintendo brought to Sakurai, that would still leave him with plenty of time to do research on the new Pokemon, make a decision, and finish the development of the Pokemon he chose by the deadline of spring 2020. If anything, this might be easier than it was with Greninja and Incineroar.

Q: Rex and Spring Man were a bust. If it was too late for them, how are these two any better?

A good point, but if promotion was on Nintendo's mind, it makes sense why Rex and Spring Man wouldn't be DLC. By the time the character came out, their games would be close to three years old. A Pokemon from Gen VIII would be a few months old at worst.

Q: How are these two better than the other Gen VIII Pokemon?

We don't know much about any of the new Pokemon, including these two.

Actually, we don't even know what most of the new Pokemon are yet. I won't be able to get into detail until we learn more.

Q: How the heck would Zacian hold items and grab fighters if it's already carrying a sword?

Because someone's gonna ask.

It's something that can easily be worked around. The design itself already shows us that it's capable of holding stuff without looking weird, which was the biggest obstacle. The solution from there on out is pretty straightforward. Just let it carry/grab two things at once.

Q: We're only getting third-parties. Why bother?

Now hold on! We don't know that for sure. That's just something fans have started assuming for themselves. Until we learn who the final character is or Nintendo themselves make a statement, it's fair game.

Q: A bit premature for this thread, ain't it?

Probably, but I'm a sucker for Pokemon characters.

Plus, I'm a Lycanroc supporter. Shouldn't surprise anyone. :p


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Supporters
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FOUNDER - Cosmic77
2. Garteam
3. fogbadge
4. Thatkidwiththeafro
5. Staarih
6. RealPokeFan11
7. kirbsmash
8. dezeray112
9. WeirdChillFever
10. Delzethin
11. Adelto
12. Poochy756
13. AndreaAC
14. Guh-Huzzah!
15. Veenon



Credit to:

Leparagon, for the Zacian and Zamazenta sprites.​
 
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Pokelego999

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#2
Finally. Someone said it isn't all third party.
Swordfighter pokemon. Makes sense.
Though,
I am glad there is some uniqueness and not just another final starter evo.
 

Garteam

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#4
I'm gonna put my support behind these two. I still think getting a Sword/Shield rep isn't possible for this Fighter's Pass based on timing, but I'd be very interested in seeing one of them in a Wave 2. Plus, it's still kinda weird that Mewtwo is the only legendary we have playable in Smash.
 

Cosmic77

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#5
I'm gonna put my support behind these two. I still think getting a Sword/Shield rep isn't possible for this Fighter's Pass based on timing, but I'd be very interested in seeing one of them in a Wave 2. Plus, it's still kinda weird that Mewtwo is the only legendary we have playable in Smash.
Updated list of supporters to include you.

Timing shouldn't have been an issue since this game has been publicly known to be in the works since 2017. Shouldn't be any different from how Sakurai handled Greninja in Smash 4's base roster. It's development started over a year before Greninja was even revealed and X/Y was officially released. Heck, if anything this should be far easier for him. It's unlikely he's even began on the fourth and fifth character. Since both are already revealed, it's likely GameFreak is almost complete with the game, making getting access to quality information on both Pokemon simplier.

The bigger obstacle is Nintendo. Obviously they've known about this game long before DLC talk even bagan, so it really just depends on how badly they wanted it. Pokemon doesn't really need the promotion to do well, so it's possible they didn't see a point in it if there was another character who would benefit them even more.
 
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Cosmic77

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#7
So just out of curiosity, what kind of special attacks/gimmicks would you like Zacian and Zamazenta to have if they got in Smash? Has anyone considered some type of tag team character, where both get in and you can switch between an offensive and a defensive character depending on what you need at the moment?

Any other ideas?
 

Garteam

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#8
So just out of curiosity, what kind of special attacks/gimmicks would you like Zacian and Zamazenta to have if they got in Smash? Has anyone considered some type of tag team character, where both get in and you can switch between an offensive and a defensive character depending on what you need at the moment?

Any other ideas?
I really want to see them explore the canine angle of Zacian/Zamazenta. For a roster as diverse as Smash Ultimate's is, most characters are generally pretty humanoid in their fighting style, even if they aren't human themselves. I want to see a character who completely breaks away from that convention and full dives into an animal-like fighting style. Ridley kinda does this already, but his moveset is more based around brutality than being a beast.

Otherwise, I'm not entirely sure what to make of their movesets. I'd probably have to learn a little more about the way these two function in Sword/Shield before I could developing some more in depth ideas.
 
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LukeRNG

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#9
I can see them being swappable like pokemon trainer but the moves would be the same for both pokemon like how simon has moves derived from richter. The stats could be different, like if you play as Zacian you offence gets stronger but you get more damage and your shield is weaker (and maybe are faster and more nimble), and if you play Zamazenta your shield gets stronger and take less damage but also cause less damage (you could also be slower and heavier).
Of course we've yet to know what signature moves and other differences they will have from eachother.

Can't really think how they could work as 2 characters.
 

fogbadge

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#11
So just out of curiosity, what kind of special attacks/gimmicks would you like Zacian and Zamazenta to have if they got in Smash? Has anyone considered some type of tag team character, where both get in and you can switch between an offensive and a defensive character depending on what you need at the moment?

Any other ideas?
i think we're gonna need to wait until we learn a bit more about them
 

Cosmic77

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#12
I really want to see them explore the canine angle of Zacian/Zamazenta. For a roster as diverse as Smash Ultimate's is, most characters are generally pretty humanoid in their fighting style, even if they aren't human themselves. I want to see a character who completely breaks away from that convention and full dives into an animal-like fighting style. Ridley kinda does this already, but his moveset is more based around brutality than being a beast.
If that's what you're looking for, then Zamazenta might be the one you'll want to support. As cool as Zacion looks, it'll be hard to deliver on your wish for a primal animal fighter when most of it's tilts and Smash attack will likely involve the sword. Zamazenta would be more likely to receive attacks involving actual animalistic attacks.

I can see them being swappable like pokemon trainer but the moves would be the same for both pokemon like how simon has moves derived from richter. The stats could be different, like if you play as Zacian you offence gets stronger but you get more damage and your shield is weaker (and maybe are faster and more nimble), and if you play Zamazenta your shield gets stronger and take less damage but also cause less damage (you could also be slower and heavier).
Of course we've yet to know what signature moves and other differences they will have from eachother.

Can't really think how they could work as 2 characters.
I imagined them functioning identical to PT and his three Pokémon, but the focus would be on playstyles. Choose Zacion if you need to be aggressive and keep your opponent at bay. Choose Zamazenta if you're looking to take advantage of an aggressive but predictable player and counterattack/reflect projectiles/reduce damage taken.
 

Staarih

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#13
Sure, count me in.

Another non-humanoid/quadrupled character is something I've been wishing for a while in the midst of the plethora of humanoid characters, and Pokémon would be one to surely deliver at that. As Lycanroc, the best bet for one as of late, is slowly losing its time in the limelight, Zacian/Zamazenta might be the next best thing. And even a non-starter at that, I'd take it. I dunno if I'm into them having the same slot/being swappable, but then again it's difficult to choose one as they're pretty much equal. I personally prefer Zamazenta, but Zacian inherently has more potential because of the sword (another sword character lul).

Anyway, we'll see how things turn out, I've really grown to like their designs, might be some of my favourite legendaries yet.
 

Cosmic77

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#14
Sure, count me in.

Another non-humanoid/quadrupled character is something I've been wishing for a while in the midst of the plethora of humanoid characters, and Pokémon would be one to surely deliver at that. As Lycanroc, the best bet for one as of late, is slowly losing its time in the limelight, Zacian/Zamazenta might be the next best thing. And even a non-starter at that, I'd take it. I dunno if I'm into them having the same slot/being swappable, but then again it's difficult to choose one as they're pretty much equal. I personally prefer Zamazenta, but Zacian inherently has more potential because of the sword (another sword character lul).

Anyway, we'll see how things turn out, I've really grown to like their designs, might be some of my favourite legendaries yet.
Regarding the swappable character thing, I was just spitballing a few ideas. I don't even know if Sakurai would consider something like a second "transformation" Pokemon character. PT already does a near-perfect job of representing that.

But yeah, these two would be a nice compensation for not getting Lycanroc. Really wanted another quad like Ivysaur instead of the Pokemon who are bipeds and incredibly easy to imagine in a fighting game. Although at this point, I think I'm more concerned about not getting a starter than I am getting a quad. It's getting to a point where Pokemon newcomers are predictable and somewhat unimaginative. Feels like FE reps in the sense that you can narrow it down to just the main lord or the avatar. In this case, the starters.
 
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#15
Any Pokémon that sounds really cool in Smash is one that I will support. Coming from the owner of the Xurkitree thread, I don't care if there's 10 Pokémon in the game. Unlike FE, Pokémon has some of the most fun and diverse movesets in the game. I'm supporting Zacian
 

fogbadge

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#16
Any Pokémon that sounds really cool in Smash is one that I will support. Coming from the owner of the Xurkitree thread, I don't care if there's 10 Pokémon in the game. Unlike FE, Pokémon has some of the most fun and diverse movesets in the game. I'm supporting Zacian
going by your avatar might i guess youd be up for corviknight as well?
 

Cosmic77

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#20
I'd say maybe another important pokemon. I'm supporting, but it's most likely going to be someone else.
Wait, are you referring to Corviknight or the Legendaries? If it's the latter, then I don't know which Pokemon would be considered more important than the boxart Legendaries, aside from maybe starters.
 

Pokelego999

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#23
Wait, are you referring to Corviknight or the Legendaries? If it's the latter, then I don't know which Pokemon would be considered more important than the boxart Legendaries, aside from maybe starters.
Boxart legendaries are normally too big.
 
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Cosmic77

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#24
I feel that it's too little, too late for any of the 8th generation Pokemon to get any kind of representation in Smash Ultimate.
Time was never the real problem. The general public has known a new game featuring a new Gen would be coming out since E3 2017. If Nintendo wanted a Gen VIII Pokemon, they could've easily told Sakurai to repeat what he's done before - pencil in a spot for a new Pokemon and work on the other characters first. That way GameFreak would have more notes, finalized pictures, and spreadsheets of attacks to look at. It really wouldn't have been that hard.

I feel like people keep mistakenly using Rex as an example why newer characters won't get in. It's actually way different. For starters, XC2 would be close to two years old before Rex would be officially revealed, so the push for Nintendo to add Rex would come almost entirely from whatever fan support he has, not promotion. Second, if there's only five characters and Rex was already too late for the base roster, then how do we know bad timing or timing in general had anything to do with Rex being a Mii costume instead of DLC? Simply put, maybe Nintendo chose others over him.

A Gen VIII Pokemon is possible, but as I've stated before, it all falls on who Nintendo wants in Smash.

Boxart legendaries are normally too big.
I don't think we should use the size argument anymore, especially after Ridley.

But, if it really seems like that big of an issue to you, just remember that Pokemon have never followed accurate heights in Smash, both playable and non-playable. Compare Pikachu's actual height to Mewtwo and Greninja.
 
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Cosmic77

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#29
I just realized Zacian actually has wings. I don't know if they're purely asthetic, but imagine having a flying dog who fights with a sword in Smash.

Tell me you wouldn't want to see that.

i mean is mewtwo even a cat? i mean sure "mew" comes from cats but still
Mewtwo's design was inspired from Mew's, who was clearly modeled after some sort of feline. It's just that the artists added a lot of features that would make Mewtwo look like an alien or monster.
 
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#30
Started supporting Lycanroc because his four-leggedness required him to spin, jump and slide around in order to attack with realistic momentum but this is that but with a sword so yeah I support. Zamazenta would also be cool but less flexible due to the more defensive playstyle.
 

SvartWolf

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#31
that's.... a weird way to spell Sif...

yeah... still prefer lycanrock and i like the idea of lycanrock rock attacks over this guys, but at least this guys put a lot of interesting stuff than lycanrock would also bring...

still though, i really believe that the whole fighter pass will be new series, so no pokemon.. although pokemon is like THE franchise that like being an exception to all rules :/

I still think i prefer amateratsu though :x
 
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Cosmic77

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#32
that's.... a weird way to spell Sif...

yeah... still prefer lycanrock and i like the idea of lycanrock rock attacks over this guys, but at least this guys put a lot of interesting stuff than lycanrock would also bring...
To be fair, there's still a lot about these two that we don't know about. Once we learn what type they are, we can start looking at possible moves - moves that help distinquish it from the other options. I'm sure they're both steel, but chances are they'll have a second one too. Maybe Water/Steel and Fire/Steel? Does anyone see it differently?
 

fogbadge

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#33
Mewtwo's design was inspired from Mew's, who was clearly modeled after some sort of feline. It's just that the artists added a lot of features that would make Mewtwo look like an alien or monster.
well alright but if you want to compare animal amounts felines are doing better than frogs

and in terms of your list, you left out apes (2), lizards (1), crocodiles (1) and dinosaurs (2)





sorry for being a pedant
 
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LukeRNG

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#34
that's.... a weird way to spell Sif...

yeah... still prefer lycanrock and i like the idea of lycanrock rock attacks over this guys, but at least this guys put a lot of interesting stuff than lycanrock would also bring...

still though, i really believe that the whole fighter pass will be new series, so no pokemon.. although pokemon is like THE franchise that like being an exception to all rules :/

I still think i prefer amateratsu though :x
I would wait till we see all 5 characters to confirm that they're all from new series. I don't know if it's still a missconception from Reggie's statement at the game awards where people thought they heard him say "characters from new series" instead from what he actually said: "These characters will be new to the smash series, just like Joker, characters you wouldn't anticipate to be in super smash bros.". Again, i'm not saying that all 5 characters couldn't be from new series, but it's still too soon to confirm with just Joker. I'd at least wait till after the nintendo direct at e3, where i do think they will announce the next 2 dlc fighters.

I feel that it's too little, too late for any of the 8th generation Pokemon to get any kind of representation in Smash Ultimate.
In my eyes, it really depends on whether there will be a second fighter's pass or not. It's very possible for it to happen, but of course we'll have to pay attention to all gen 8 pokemon that exist at the time of the second pass being revealed to see if the legendaries will have competition or not (most notably, the starter pokemon). Unless my starter pick, sobble, has an amazing final evolution, i'll still support Zacian/Zamazenta because they seem to have a lot of potential.
 

Cosmic77

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#35
Okay, so there's something interesting about Zacian that a lot of us may have missed during the presentation.

zacian.jpg


Apparently, those things on its back that I mistook for wings are actually parts of the sword. They can separate from Zacian and fuse with the initial sword to create the larger version in the top right.

Now that's actually something we can use to make a case for Zacian being a unique fighter. While in this powered-up state, his sword could have a much larger disjointed hitbox and additional power, making it easier to safely poke at people from a distance. Don't know if that'd be his main gimmick, but at least there's more to the sword than we initially thought.
 

Pokelego999

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#36
Time was never the real problem. The general public has known a new game featuring a new Gen would be coming out since E3 2017. If Nintendo wanted a Gen VIII Pokemon, they could've easily told Sakurai to repeat what he's done before - pencil in a spot for a new Pokemon and work on the other characters first. That way GameFreak would have more notes, finalized pictures, and spreadsheets of attacks to look at. It really wouldn't have been that hard.

I feel like people keep mistakenly using Rex as an example why newer characters won't get in. It's actually way different. For starters, XC2 would be close to two years old before Rex would be officially revealed, so the push for Nintendo to add Rex would come almost entirely from whatever fan support he has, not promotion. Second, if there's only five characters and Rex was already too late for the base roster, then how do we know bad timing or timing in general had anything to do with Rex being a Mii costume instead of DLC? Simply put, maybe Nintendo chose others over him.

A Gen VIII Pokemon is possible, but as I've stated before, it all falls on who Nintendo wants in Smash.



I don't think we should use the size argument anymore, especially after Ridley.

But, if it really seems like that big of an issue to you, just remember that Pokemon have never followed accurate heights in Smash, both playable and non-playable. Compare Pikachu's actual height to Mewtwo and Greninja.
Ridley was only because of fan demand. And what I mean by "too big" is like if you say ho-oh or arceus or something. These guys are slightly smaller, but out of the two, Zacion is more likely. He's small enough, and another swordfighter. Unless They get high demand, we won't see em in smash.
 

Cosmic77

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#37
Ridley was only because of fan demand. And what I mean by "too big" is like if you say ho-oh or arceus or something. These guys are slightly smaller, but out of the two, Zacion is more likely. He's small enough, and another swordfighter. Unless They get high demand, we won't see em in smash.
Fan demand doesn't magically make the issue of a character's size go away. Sakurai decides whether or not he can make a character work, and so far, size doesn't seem to be an issue for him.

Zacian and Zamazenta are large, yes, but they aren't anywhere near Ridley's average size outside of Smash. It's nothing Sakurai shouldn't be able to handle if he were seriously considering them.
 

Pokelego999

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#38
Fan demand doesn't magically make the issue of a character's size go away. Sakurai decides whether or not he can make a character work, and so far, size doesn't seem to be an issue for him.

Zacian and Zamazenta are large, yes, but they aren't anywhere near Ridley's average size outside of Smash. It's nothing Sakurai shouldn't be able to handle if he were seriously considering them.
His average size is about a head taller than samus
 

Cosmic77

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#39
Tomorrow is finally E3. We might finally learn some more info about these two, such as what type they'll end up being and what moves they'll be able to use. In the meantime, all we can do is speculate.

Here's a very detailed piece of fan art featuring sword wolf and shield wolf. Seems like people are really into their designs.

 

RandomAce

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#40
I’m not sure about them.

I like that Game Freak decided to use divine wolves for their legendaries this generation, but I’m not that keen on their designs. They’re still awesome, but I feel that the Sword sticks out too much for Zacion, and Zamazenta looks like a lion at times, among a couple minor things.

Sadly, I still would prefer Lycanroc if I’m being completely honest with you. But I’m still willing to look at what the rest of Gen 8 has to offer before I start pushing for a specific Pokémon I may like.
 
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