The Jiggz Match-Up Thread

Thinkaman

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
6,040
Location
Madison, WI
3DS FC
1504-5749-3616
NNID
Thinkaman
#41
But just remember this: no Jigglypuff is ever going to beat a MK who knows what he's doing and is taking the match very seriously.
Apparently all the Meta Knights in the entire Midwest are not very serious...
 

*JuriHan*

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 30, 2008
Messages
4,700
3DS FC
1392-4901-1779
#43
I main both Meta knight and Jigglypuff, and fought many (good) Jigglypuffs with my Meta knight.

In the air, it's pretty even. Jiggly has better mobility and pound is a god send.

On the ground is where Jigglypuff runs into trouble. There really isn't much she can do about f-tilt, as it has amazing priority and range. Someone said this earlier but your best bet is to grab ***** a Meta knight on the ground, Jiggly's grab range is much better than MKs, so use this to your advantage.

Good Meta knights are not going to get hit by rollout unless you really, really catch them off guard. Tornado shuts down rollout completely. Personally I have never been hit with rollout when playing as Meta knight.

Well that's my two cents.
 

Thinkaman

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
6,040
Location
Madison, WI
3DS FC
1504-5749-3616
NNID
Thinkaman
#45
Yeah, while I can't say that Peach doesn't ever hit me with fair (heck, she gets most of her KOs agaisnt me with it), it's not exactly the hardest thing to avoid. If you are at a KO-able percent... and Peach just started floating towards you... it's no mystery what she is about to do. PND's advice is sound: go UP. Worst case, you go for a dair.

As for needing the opinions of MK mains... huh? Do you really want me to go solicit the opinions of the good MK players I have played? (And beat?)

Domo said Jiggs goes even with MK after I played him, Affinity said something similar but I don't remember if he said anything that explicit. Overswarm said Jigglypuff was one of MK's hardest matchups BEFORE I played him, and after I beat him in a game jokingly shrugged and said "Jiggs Counters Meta Knight!" You try telling MetalMusicMan or Legan that MK has an advantage on Jiggs, and they'll laugh at you.

All results align with my view on the matchup. I have always done worse against DDD, Snake, Marth, Wario, Wolf, Luigi, Zelda, Ness, and of course G&W than MKs played by the same or equally skilled players.
 

Thinkaman

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
6,040
Location
Madison, WI
3DS FC
1504-5749-3616
NNID
Thinkaman
#48
I think I was just harassing him with pokes off the side of Stadium until he ran out of jumps and went for an up-B. Not really anything worth talking about.

peach's fair is crazy, there are so many mindgames to it and so many different ways she can use it.
Yes, Peach's fair is crazy smart and has a lot of 'dem mindgames. We sat down the other day and had a long discussion on philosophy, economics, and the nature of man's inalienable rights. Peach's fair might be one of the most intelligent and--

Oh wait, I must have been mixing up an animation in a fighting game with something that has a mind.

Sarcastic criticism of gross overuse of the word mindgames: Just one of the many services I offer.
 
Joined
Aug 14, 2005
Messages
5,567
Location
Northwest NJ
NNID
Dapuffster
#49
Ike has us at 60... huh? Ike, who can't hit us with anything but jabs and is gimped incredibly easily, has an advantage against Jiggs? When I played Mr. Doom in several games recently, who I consider a better and smarter player than me, I think I won a majority. (Close games though!)
Ike's retreating f air outranges Jiggly's arieals. He can sheild your attacks if you get in and then counter with his jab. Then his back air will kill you at ridicously low %. He is not as easy to gimp as you think, if he dosn't have to use his side b to get back to the stage he will get back to the stage. Ike up b is very hard to stop because he will have done it before you even get the chance to hit him.

For Jiggly's side of the matchup though, Jigglypuff can do lots of stuff in the air to him, if he has to use his side b hes dead, and if you cp him to frigate he might as well just call it quits because you know...
 

Thinkaman

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
6,040
Location
Madison, WI
3DS FC
1504-5749-3616
NNID
Thinkaman
#50
All that is true, but that's just it; it's not like Ike has a lot of options or the speed to make the options he has hard to avoid. (Besides jab)

His fair is like Peach's and his bair is like Pit's; scary, but you know they are there and can avoid them to a good degree.
 

Metatitan

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 3, 2008
Messages
3,576
Location
Six Feet Under
#51
All that is true, but that's just it; it's not like Ike has a lot of options or the speed to make the options he has hard to avoid. (Besides jab)

His fair is like Peach's and his bair is like Pit's; scary, but you know they are there and can avoid them to a good degree.
his fair is nothing like peach's. his has lag and hers does not. shield approaching works well for ikes trying to camp u with fair.
 

Thinkaman

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
6,040
Location
Madison, WI
3DS FC
1504-5749-3616
NNID
Thinkaman
#52
His fair is like Peach's and his bair is like Pit's; scary, but you know they are there and can avoid them to a good degree.
Obviously Ike's fair and Peach's fair are nothing alike mechanically, except in the vague sense that both have good range and can KO. The point was that their value to the matchup is diminished despite being a good option, because there aren't any other good options.

It's like playing Rock-Paper-Scissors with just the Rock.

I think I'm making the Ike matchup sound better than it is, though, rather than my true opinion of 60:40. One good read is all Ike needs...
 

Thinkaman

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
6,040
Location
Madison, WI
3DS FC
1504-5749-3616
NNID
Thinkaman
#54
Because there is so little discussion on this board as it is that we'll take anything we can get, rather than constraining discussion any further to isolated and specific topics?
 

Thinkaman

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
6,040
Location
Madison, WI
3DS FC
1504-5749-3616
NNID
Thinkaman
#57
I've dumped everything I have to say about Jiggs vs. Meta Knight into posts on this board, and so have many others. It's been discussed to death, including multiple topics and discussions devoted strictly to Meta Knight. Are we waiting on the people who have already posted entire topics about Meta Knight to post even more, or are we waiting on new people to come to this deserted sub-forum to post?

If anyone has been withholding some insightful wisdom about this matchup from us, feel free to enlighten us all.

Otherwise, I wanna talk about Wolf, and I'm sure everyone else has their own ideas for matchups to discuss. Not like we have any other posts to organize or sort through.
 

Thinkaman

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
6,040
Location
Madison, WI
3DS FC
1504-5749-3616
NNID
Thinkaman
#59
As Jigglypuff the shine doesn't bother me.

The laser is more annoying than most projectiles, because the hitbox for it seems talk enough to keep me from being as low to the ground as I want to be.

SH bair spam is just awful, I have no idea how to deal with it. Wait, would DACUS work?

Hmm...
 

Cold Fusion

ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ JIGGLYPUFF OR RIOT ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ
Joined
Mar 30, 2009
Messages
836
#61
I have two questions. One, can Jigglypuff effectively deal with a Meta Knight that is planking? Two, how well can Meta Knight deal with a Jigglypuff that is planking?
 

Thinkaman

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
6,040
Location
Madison, WI
3DS FC
1504-5749-3616
NNID
Thinkaman
#62
Jigglypuff has zero problem with plankers since she has fast enough aerial mobility to steal ledges and not endanger herself to the usual degree while doing so.

planking agianst MK isn't terribly effective, since he has multiple jumps, a useful fair and dair for assualting space, and an up-B (and down-B) that can steal edges very well.
 

Thinkaman

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
6,040
Location
Madison, WI
3DS FC
1504-5749-3616
NNID
Thinkaman
#64
It probably does, but the issue is the speed at which Wolf is able to rapidly do it. Instead of the normal situation of just reading an attack, you have to read precisely when he is going to do it since you have such a small window. Maybe others don't have issue with it, but I certainly do.

...though if anyone listening thinks they should go Wolf against me, prepare for a Ness surprise...
 
Joined
Aug 14, 2005
Messages
5,567
Location
Northwest NJ
NNID
Dapuffster
#65
It probably does, but the issue is the speed at which Wolf is able to rapidly do it. Instead of the normal situation of just reading an attack, you have to read precisely when he is going to do it since you have such a small window. Maybe others don't have issue with it, but I certainly do.

...though if anyone listening thinks they should go Wolf against me, prepare for a Ness surprise...
Miss with pound against Wolf and you'll get a bair in the face.

Not to mention his dsmash rapes jigglypuff and kills her early.

His fsmash however can be perfect sheilded into a rest I think.

imo in this matchup you need to stay out of the air and learn how to perfect sheild. His only thing keeping you away from him on the ground are his lazer and f smash. Both are easy to powersheild and if you master it you can approach him with no problem. In the air he wins cause of that **** b air.
 

Thinkaman

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
6,040
Location
Madison, WI
3DS FC
1504-5749-3616
NNID
Thinkaman
#66
Wolf's jabs and even f-tilt are surprisingly good against a basic ground approach though. Rolling is a questionable idea given his d-smash and conditioning to use it.

I normally just grab him out of f-smashes, meh. Rest certainly isn't worth it except to KO.
 
Joined
Aug 14, 2005
Messages
5,567
Location
Northwest NJ
NNID
Dapuffster
#67
What i've been thinking recently. If your a stock ahead with jiggly, is it worth it to rest them at low % and know that your too low for them to kill? The flower effect deals quite a bit of damage and their fully charged smash probably dosn't deal as much.
 

Teh Future

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 6, 2008
Messages
4,872
Location
St. Louis, MO
#70
What i've been thinking recently. If your a stock ahead with jiggly, is it worth it to rest them at low % and know that your too low for them to kill? The flower effect deals quite a bit of damage and their fully charged smash probably dosn't deal as much.

Ive actually thought about that too but it only does like 40% but f you just manage to get stage control and read your opponet you can easily just combo them to like 60. I mean if you get in the position to rest at low percentages you can just combo into another areial and then try to follow up from there
 

Thinkaman

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
6,040
Location
Madison, WI
3DS FC
1504-5749-3616
NNID
Thinkaman
#71
When I'm a stock ahead I just go "all damage mode". Don't worry about staling moves, since there's no pressure to kill before they kill you to even the stocks anyway. Just fair and dash attack to your heart's content. (The change in style throws them off a bit too.)
 
Joined
Aug 1, 2008
Messages
1,793
#72
About Peach:

NikoK admitted that Jiggs has the advantage, although only slight. Yeah, THAT NikoK. We have the advantage.
I dissagree with that. Peach has the advantage but just slight. Her movement almost never leaves her vulnerable. Her smashes are fast, and her d-smash hinders the safety of the ledge that we so gratefully take advantage of.

Her horrizontal recovery is very hard to gimp. If she glides with the parasol, she can swing to and fro, drop, and recover as she wishes, while carrying with her a hitbox. If she floats, she can use all of her aireals (which are all in my opinion amazing), out maneuver you, out space you, and she can use her parasol out of all that.

Her turnips are annoying as **** and are proven to kill some aproach options. I suggest n-air, f-air, and pound to cut through them. sheild dashes also work.

All of her aireals ****. I'd relate this to the G&W matchup (which dosn't seem like a practical relation at all.) Like G&W, peach pressures your aireal ability.

When fighing peach, come up with a creative aproach like a DACUS, d-air, n-air, pound, or a grab.
 

Thinkaman

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
6,040
Location
Madison, WI
3DS FC
1504-5749-3616
NNID
Thinkaman
#73
Peach is mobile, but if you are letting Peach frequently out-maneuver Jigglypuff, something is wrong.

As for turnips, why not just catch them?

As for parasol being something in Peach's favor... huh?
 
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
6,792
Location
Cleveland, OH
#74
yeah Mcan idk what you mean by the parasol, peach can't even grab the ledge if her backs turned with that, and she has lag if she lands on the stage, plus the hitbox is only that little peck of the parasol after its out...sure she can open and close it, but she can still be snapped out of from the sides of below
 

Thinkaman

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
6,040
Location
Madison, WI
3DS FC
1504-5749-3616
NNID
Thinkaman
#75
If Peach is parasoling and isn't below Jigglypuff, best case for her is getting a bair and worst case is a Rest or Rollout.
 
Joined
Aug 1, 2008
Messages
1,793
#76
Peach is mobile, but if you are letting Peach frequently out-maneuver Jigglypuff, something is wrong.

As for turnips, why not just catch them?

As for parasol being something in Peach's favor... huh?
Sorry if I was unclear about that. The parasol is simply an small annoyance in gimping her recovery. I didn't mean that the parasol is a great asset to peach mains. It sounds pretty stupid now that you mention it. lol

Also, of course peach can out maneuver you. Yes, I understand that jigglypuff is very mobile in the air, but peach provides a s*** load of aireal pressure that limits your options. She has the ability to preform three consecutive aireals at ground level; I learned that that is not fun to deal with.

If Peach is parasoling and isn't below Jigglypuff, best case for her is getting a bair and worst case is a Rest or Rollout.
I was refering to off stage, but you're probobly not refering to that statement.

Good idea though. The only thing you have to be aware of is that peach can bring up the parasol again (which may not cause any problems whatsoever). Smashes are also a good safe option if she lands close.
---------------------------------------------
And im not saying that im right about the matchup, and im not saying that anyone here is wrong about it.

My ratio is between 45:55 & 40:60 in peaches favor.
(43:57)?
 

Thinkaman

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
6,040
Location
Madison, WI
3DS FC
1504-5749-3616
NNID
Thinkaman
#78
It's certainly an odd matchup. Jiggs gives up her excellent grab game for the most part, and Peach gives up her excellent dair pressuring for the most part.
 
Joined
Jun 28, 2007
Messages
9,410
Location
Safari Zone. Shiny, and holding a Lucky Egg.
3DS FC
2406-5625-4787
#80
I think its Turnips that gives Peach that slight advantage.
Also, even the thought of getting being able to kill her in one hit with Mr. Saturn (doesn't even matter if she can avoid it, the possibility is still there) also gives her an advantage in my book.

That could be applied to Bomb pulling as well, but they're much rarer.
 
Top