The ideal patch: Sheik

Joined
Dec 24, 2016
Messages
136
#1
I don't have much to change about Sheik, since as i've stated before, I want this project to focus more on buffs than nerfs, but there are a couple of minor nerfs I would like to make to her.

Ftilt BKB: 20 -> 30
Fair FAF: 35 -> 36
Fair autocancel: 11 -> 13
Fair landing lag: 10 -> 11
Bair FAF: 38 -> 40
Bair landing lag: 12 -> 13
Bair autocancel: 31 -> 33
Uair FAF: 44 -> 48
Uair landing lag: 21 -> 22
Uair (final) KBG: 138 -> 135
Needle storm charge frame speed multiplier: 1 -> 1.1 (takes 10% longer to complete)
Needle storm (up to 5 needles) FAF: 48 -> 49
Needle storm (6 needles) FAF: 54 -> 55
Needles SDI multiplier: 1 -> 1.3
 

JasonKaroshi

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 15, 2016
Messages
81
Location
Vancouver, BC
#2
Listen, I'm a fan of your concept, and I have given my two cents on Falco, but I'd like to note that your buffs/nerfs are rather strange. You increase/decrease the frame data by a smidgen, but what you should be focusing on is the mechanics of the game. For example, instead of doing "Fair landing lag: 10 -> 11", maybe change the trajectory of the move so she can't link 4-5 f-airs. Or, do what I did for Falco. Instead of changing his laser from doing 3 to 4 damage, change the mechanic. I gave it a reload system, where he can spam them, but is left vulnerable if he doesn't properly capitalize.
 

sman5093

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Messages
105
Location
Austria
#3
I don't even know why there would be a reason to actually nerf shiek in the current position she is right now. Yes at the hands of a top player she can be incredible but her main issues are reliable kill confirms. Rising needles to bf and weak hit Nair into bf are probably the most consistent. Rage in this game works very much against her. It happens often that enemies get out of percentrange for a reliable kill confirm. Also when your opponent has enough rage it happens often that he just outright kills you even if you had like 60% lead on them. Before 1.1.5 i agree, she really needed a nerf. D-throw into up-air 50/50 was really stupid but this is not the case anymore imo. Many ppl have dropped shiek since 1.1.5 because now u need to be able to utilise a lot of tech with her to be useful. She is still a very strong character on paper due to her frame data but your neutral game needs to be significantly better than your opponents to make her work now. I think she is really fine where she is now. Another sheik nerf will just make ppl drop her completely. Just my opinion on this matter.
 
Joined
Apr 16, 2015
Messages
915
Location
Somewhere in this Universe
NNID
MrGameguycolor
Switch FC
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#4
I don't even know why there would be a reason to actually nerf shiek in the current position she is right now. Yes at the hands of a top player she can be incredible but her main issues are reliable kill confirms. Rising needles to bf and weak hit Nair into bf are probably the most consistent. Rage in this game works very much against her. It happens often that enemies get out of percentrange for a reliable kill confirm. Also when your opponent has enough rage it happens often that he just outright kills you even if you had like 60% lead on them. Before 1.1.5 i agree, she really needed a nerf. D-throw into up-air 50/50 was really stupid but this is not the case anymore imo. Many ppl have dropped shiek since 1.1.5 because now u need to be able to utilise a lot of tech with her to be useful. She is still a very strong character on paper due to her frame data but your neutral game needs to be significantly better than your opponents to make her work now. I think she is really fine where she is now. Another sheik nerf will just make ppl drop her completely. Just my opinion on this matter.
Uhhhh....

Buff Burst Grenade?
 

JagerCry

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 13, 2017
Messages
35
Location
Tri-state
#5
Sheik doesn't need any more nerfs. This little nerfs like 1 more frame of lag or 1% less damage seem silly and pointless to me. Nintendo did a lot of them like reduce Sheik's weight a smidge. It's just done solely to try to appease people that are complaining. While I completely agree Sheik's needle range nerf was good and her fair range nerf was good, her throws combos were essentially removed with 1.1.5. I get that taking 5 f-tilts in a row or 3 fairs in a row feels lame. But Sheik has to be played nearly perfectly as she struggles to get KO's and is a fairly light character that needs to build percent on her opponents putting them at or near max rage before getting the KO. Yes, Sheik has the frame data and the kit to win neutral against literally every opponent and yes her recovery back to ledge is essentially free but one mistake, getting grabbed once, taking one smash gets her KO'ed so easily.
No matter what character you play vs Sheik chances are Sheik will land more attacks on you. It's just the way the character is built. Fast, weak attacks. But when people who have been playing Sheik for two and a half years are picking up secondaries and it's not even to cover "bad matchups" it shows how difficult it is to be consistently proficient with the character.
I personally would happily trade getting several fairs or tilts in a row for free for more reliable KO option. It would make a more enjoyable experience playing vs Sheik and IMO a more enjoyable experience playing as Sheik. I'd rather see changes in her f-tilt, up-tilt, and fair knockback then just straight frame and percentage nerfs but she would likely require some sort of KO option buff to compensate.
Even if Nintendo say ports Sm4sh to the switch or adds a couple characters or stages and makes them available on Wii U which would require another patch it's probably the most likely scenario that Sheik remains untouched. The best Sheik players are still doing well with her in tournaments because of all the practice they had invested into the character. If Sheik got her 1.1.5 nerfs back in 1.0.4 there's a strong chance you wouldn't see any top level Sheiks. Just my two cents.
 
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