The ideal patch: King Dedede

Joined
Dec 24, 2016
Messages
136
#1
You'll probably notice a common theme with this one, and this thread explains why:
https://smashboards.com/threads/king-dedede-hitbox-visualization.437049/
these hitboxes are way to small! Also WHY DID THEY NERF HIM IN PATCHES?! unacceptable.

Run Speed: 1.36 -> 1.38
Air Speed: 0.63 -> 0.658 (pre-patch value)
Gravity: 0.08788 -> 0.087
Rapid jab damage: 1 -> 1.5
Rapid jab hitbox size: 2.0/3.5/7.0 -> 2.2/3.7/7.2
Rapid jab finisher damage: 3 -> 4
Rapid jab finisher hitbox size: 10.0 -> 10.4
Dash attack FAF: 67 -> 62
Dash attack (clean) hitbox size: 7.0 -> 7.7
Dash attack (late) hitbox size: 6.0 -> 6.6
Dash attack now has super armour on frames 1-6, allowing him to tank powerful moves, then punish their lag with a powerful slam.
Ftilt FAF: 49 -> 45
Dtilt hitbox size: 7.0 (clean) 5.0 (late) -> 7.7 (clean) 5.5 (late)
Fsmash startup lag: 41 -> 37
Fsmash (early) hitbox details: now identical to the main hitbox in terms of size and damage (15 -> 24)
Fsmash hitbox size: 6.0/3.7/3.7 -> 6.3/3.8/3.8
Up smash hitbox details: now hits for consistant damage and knockback growth (96) throughout all its hitboxes
Up smash damage: 14 -> 16
Up smash hitbox size: 6.0/4.0/4.0/4.0 -> 6.2/4.2/4.2/4.2 and new hitbox added on the first frame of the hitbox period, positioned between the main hitbox and the floor, to hit very short opponents.
Down smash damage: 13 -> 13.5
Down smash hitbox size: 7.0/4.0 -> 7.3/4.2
Nair hitbox size: 10.0 (clean) 6.0 (late) -> 11.2 (clean) 7.1 (late)
Nair FAF: 40 -> 36
Nair autocancel ASA: 35 -> 32
Fair damage: 12 -> 13 (pre-patch value)
Fair KBG: 90 -> 95
Fair hitbox size: 8.0/5.0 -> 8.3/5.2
Fair autocancel ASA: 40 -> 35
Bair hitbox size: 10.0 -> 10.3
Damage to reflect gordo: 2 -> 6
 
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ExiaPilotDedede

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 26, 2015
Messages
79
#2
My wishlist:
1. Increase shield damage to the crash down sweet spot of Super Dedede jump. This move can currently just be shielded and punished.
2. Decrease the ending lag when Dedede swallows a projectile or give him health back for eating it.
3. Remove the hit stun when someone is mashing after being swallowed by inhale. If you mash fast enough, not only do you get out, but Dedede cannot do the spit or move. Make this more like a grab, if the opponent mashes when grabbed, it doesn't prevent you from throwing or pummeling, it just reduces the amount of time you have to follow up with those actions.
4. Up-B should break shields on the sweet spot crash down like bowser's Down-B (There is a hitbox that buries, make it break shields as well).
5. F-Air should spike on the tip of the hammer like Cloud's FAir.
6. Cut down the D-Air start up and ending lag and make the entire hammer spike, similar to Gannon's DAir.
7. Give jet hammer the ability to short hop.
8. Give jet hammer heavy armor when fully charged.
9. Decrease the end lag on a canceled UpB.
 

CaptainVul

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 15, 2014
Messages
100
Location
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3DS FC
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KaLefty
#3
I don't even want that much tbh

-F-Throw the same as Pit/Dark Pit. Dedede is already great on the ledge because of Gordo traps, but if he had a reasonable kill throw it would make his ledge game even scarier. And a big problem with Dedede in general is how hes pretty much the only heavy that can straight up lose to shields. This would help a lot and without a doubt the thing that I want the most.

-Less endlag on Side B. The most annoying thing to me is when you're doing an aerial Gordo Toss and your opponent completely ignores the Gordo and goes straight to punishing you before you land since the FAF is 64 on that move which is pretty ridiculous. And if the endlag of Side B is reduced you would have a better chance of actually reflecting Gordos back which seems to be what they intended for you to be able to do with that move but you only really see Dedede reflect Gordos back from across the stage making that kind of pointless. Also fix the Gordo catch animation while you're at it, that's even worse lol.

Those are the two buffs that I want the most and buffs that I think Dedede needs the most, if those are fixed I'd be pretty content with Dedede as he is.

But if you want to get GREEDY here are some more:

-Fix Dedede's hitboxes. We all know what I'm talking about here so I assume I don't have to say much lol. But my main gripe with Dedede's hitboxes are how more of them aren't like F-Tilt. If you look at the hitbox on that move it includes the hilt of the hammer and a lot of Dedede's moves are not like that at all. Its kind of annoying how a character can fall inside of Dedede and most of his moves won't hit the opponent at that area. This would obviously be the biggest buff which is why I doubt it will happen, and I also don't particularly think Dedede's hitboxes are his real problem which is why I didn't put it as a necessity.

-Give some type of logical method for Gordo sticking. You guys did the labbing and we figured out that even at the correct angles its pretty much random, which is kind of silly imo. Gordo sticking becoming a reliable aspect of Dedede's edge guarding game would make him a lot better.

-Buff knockback on Up Tilt and make it frame 6 or 7. That would give Dedede a strong and fast anti-air which is something he needs pretty badly and its something that both Bowser and Donkey Kong have.

-Buff Fair to be similar to Ike's Fair. Before they nerfed it Fair was about that strong, so basically just return Fair to how it was before.

-Up B sweet spot landing breaking shields is a cool idea. Its a lot slower than Bowser's Down B and tbh its one of Dededes most iconic moves. And landing on stage would Up B past the ledge would become a cool mixup.

-The FAF on cancelled Up B is pretty lulzy, I don't really understand why its like that but if they do the buff that I put above it would make more sense for it to have that much endlag I guess.

-Dair's spike hitbox could be a bit bigger. I usually don't have much trouble getting the sweet spot since I play a lot of Pit and his Dair sweet spot is a lot worse but it wouldn't hurt for Dedede's Dair to be a bit bigger especially since theres so many easy to spike Dairs in this game.

With all of that Dedede would probably be close to high mid tier imo but he would still have a lot of flaws which is completely fine.
 
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ExiaPilotDedede

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 26, 2015
Messages
79
#4
I don't even want that much tbh

-F-Throw the same as Pit/Dark Pit. Dedede is already great on the ledge because of Gordo traps, but if he had a reasonable kill throw it would make his ledge game even scarier. And a big problem with Dedede in general is how hes pretty much the only heavy that can straight up lose to shields. This would help a lot and without a doubt the thing that I want the most.

-Less endlag on Side B. The most annoying thing to me is when you're doing an aerial Gordo Toss and your opponent completely ignores the Gordo and goes straight to punishing you before you land since the FAF is 64 on that move which is pretty ridiculous. And if the endlag of Side B is reduced you would have a better chance of actually reflecting Gordos back which seems to be what they intended for you to be able to do with that move but you only really see Dedede reflect Gordos back from across the stage making that kind of pointless. Also fix the Gordo catch animation while you're at it, that's even worse lol.

Those are the two buffs that I want the most and buffs that I think Dedede needs the most, if those are fixed I'd be pretty content with Dedede as he is.

But if you want to get GREEDY here are some more:

-Fix Dedede's hitboxes. We all know what I'm talking about here so I assume I don't have to say much lol. But my main gripe with Dedede's hitboxes are how more of them aren't like F-Tilt. If you look at the hitbox on that move it includes the hilt of the hammer and a lot of Dedede's moves are not like that at all. Its kind of annoying how a character can fall inside of Dedede and most of his moves won't hit the opponent at that area. This would obviously be the biggest buff which is why I doubt it will happen, and I also don't particularly think Dedede's hitboxes are his real problem which is why I didn't put it as a necessity.

-Give some type of logical method for Gordo sticking. You guys did the labbing and we figured out that even at the correct angles its pretty much random, which is kind of silly imo. Gordo sticking becoming a reliable aspect of Dedede's edge guarding game would make him a lot better.

-Buff knockback on Up Tilt and make it frame 6 or 7. That would give Dedede a strong and fast anti-air which is something he needs pretty badly and its something that both Bowser and Donkey Kong have.

-Buff Fair to be similar to Ike's Fair. Before they nerfed it Fair was about that strong, so basically just return Fair to how it was before.

-Up B sweet spot landing breaking shields is a cool idea. Its a lot slower than Bowser's Down B and tbh its one of Dededes most iconic moves. And landing on stage would Up B past the ledge would become a cool mixup.

-The FAF on cancelled Up B is pretty lulzy, I don't really understand why its like that but if they do the buff that I put above it would make more sense for it to have that much endlag I guess.

-Dair's spike hitbox could be a bit bigger. I usually don't have much trouble getting the sweet spot since I play a lot of Pit and his Dair sweet spot is a lot worse but it wouldn't hurt for Dedede's Dair to be a bit bigger especially since theres so many easy to spike Dairs in this game.

With all of that Dedede would probably be close to high mid tier imo but he would still have a lot of flaws which is completely fine.
I like all of this, though I would definately like to see something happen with jet hammer. It's pretty useless/very situational. I think the only time I ever pull it out is to bait a counter, and that only really works on FG.

Also if the cancel height for bAir could be lowered, it would be awesome. With Dedede's jumps being rather slow, it's annoying that just being 10px too low means the move gets no hitbox.
 
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MERPIS

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 28, 2015
Messages
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#5
tbh I'd accept an autocancel fair, bigger hitboxes, faster frame data, a kill throw, not even a strong one, maybe like a marth tier kill throw. and more kill power on fair.
 
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