The ideal patch: Jigglypuff

[TheLobsterCopter5000]

I have been looking forward to this one! So i have been playing as Jigglypuff for a long time, and for a while i have been noting down things that i think need improving whenever they come up, and after making some modifications, this is the final result.

Air speed: 1.269 -> 1.278
Air acceleration: 0.08 -> 0.105
Air deceleration: 0.05 -> 0.072
Gravity: 0.5309 -> 0.528
Jumpsquat: 6F -> 3F
Ground jump force increased to match first mid-air jump.
Hard landing lag: 4F -> 2F
Shield health: 50 -> 60
Jab 1 hitbox size: 3.5/3.9 -> 3.6/4.0
Jab 2 hitbox size: 3.5/3.9 -> 3.6/4.1
Jab 2 FAF: 20 -> 17
Dash attack (late) hitbox active: 10-20 -> 10-22
Dash attack hitbox size: 5.0(clean) 4.0(late) -> 5.3(clean) 4.3(late)
Dash attack FAF: 40 -> 35
Forward tilt hitbox size: 3.5/3.5/3.5 -> 3.8/3.8/3.8
Up tilt hitbox size: 4.5/4.0 -> 5.0/4.5
Up smash hitbox details: sourspot replaced with extended sweetspot
Up smash hitbox size: 4.8/7.2 -> 5.1/7.5
Down smash hitbox size: 4.8/5.7/4.8/5.7 -> 5.2/6.1/5.2/6.1
Down smash KBG: 69 -> 76
Air Dodge Intangibility: 4-29 -> 3-30
Nair (clean) KBG: 100 -> 105
Nair (clean, foot) hitbox size: 4.0 -> 4.3
Nair (late) hitbox size: 3.5 -> 3.7
Nair (late) hitbox active: 8-30 -> 8-32
Fair hitbox size: 4.5/3.2 -> 4.8/3.5
Fair (late) hitbox active: 10-20 -> 10-23
Fair FAF: 37 -> 34
Uair hitbox size: 4.0/3.0/3.0 -> 4.4/3.4/3.4
Uair FAF 45 -> 38
Uair landing lag 15F -> 12F
Bair BKB: 0/30 -> 30
Bair hitbox size: 4.0/4.5 -> 4.2/4.7
Dair (loop hits 1-8) damage: 1.5 -> 1.625
Dair (all hits) can no longer rebound
Dair feet/legs now have intangibility active for 7-29
Dair final hit: now always sends opponent in front of Jigglypuff
Standing grab hitbox size: +0.2 each hitbox
Dash grab hitbox size: +0.2 each hitbox
Pivot grab hitbox size: +0.3 each hitbox
Pummel damage: 3.1 -> 3.3
Pummel FAF: 21 -> 18
Up throw KBG: 30 -> 60
Back throw KBG: 25 -> 55
Rollout hitbox size: 2.5 (smaller than rest) -> 3.9
Rollout begin charge: -3 frames
Rollout charge time: -8 frames
Rollout Damage: 7-14 -> 8-16
Rollout KBG: 92 -> 96
Rollout Further Details: Jigglypuff can now move to the left and right as she falls, like in Brawl, and this becomes active as soon as she begins falling.
Pound hitbox active: 13-28 -> 13-30
Pound Damage: 11 -> 12
Pound Shield damage: 20 -> 24
Pound FAF: 46 -> 42
Pound hitbox details: new reflect box: active frames: 13-32 position: same as main hitbox size: 7.0 reflect strength: 1.5x breaks at: 50%
Pound Further Details: Jigglypuff now slides 12% further when using the move in the air (by extending how long she is sliding forward for, rather than sliding faster).
Sing Active Frames: 29-33, 73-77, 122-134 -> 27-35, 71-79, 120-139
Sing FAF: 180 -> 164
Sing hitbox size: (1) +0.3 (2) +0.3 (3) +0.4
Sing sleep duration formula: see below
Rest hitbox active: 2-4 -> 2-6
Rest KBG: 66 -> 73
Rest shield damage: 0 -> 30
Rest hitbox size: 3.4 -> 3.8
Rest Further Details: Rest now has a unique attribute of forcing the target into a star KO or screen KO animation when KOing off the upper blast line. Jigglypuff is also stalled in the air while using aerial rest, resulting in equivalent stats of:
gravity = 0.048 (normally 0.05309) fall speed: 0.86 (normally 0.98). Does not apply to sustained knockback.

So as for the sing sleep duration formula, i do not actually have access to the currently used formula, but i do have access to the melee one: no of frames = (2 x damage) + 95 - (7 x inputs). I can use this as a template for the applied change to the current formula (which is the same except for the numbers), as so: ((+0.5) x damage) +(+10) -((-1) x inputs). So the melee formula would become (2.5 x damage (rounded up)) + 105 - (6 x inputs).

 

[FunAtParties]

I have been looking forward to this one! So i have been playing as Jigglypuff for a long time, and for a while i have been noting down things that i think need improving whenever they come up, and after making some modifications, this is the final result.

Air Speed: 1.269 -> 1.278
Jumpsquat: 6F -> 4F
Hard landing lag: 4F -> 2F
Shield health: 50 -> 60
Jab 1 hitbox size: 3.5/3.9 -> 3.6/4.0
Jab 2 hitbox size: 3.5/3.9 -> 3.6/4.1
Jab 2 FAF: 20 -> 17
Dash attack (late) hitbox active: 10-20 -> 10-22
Dash attack hitbox size: 5.0(clean) 4.0(late) -> 5.2(clean) 4.2(late)
Dash Attack FAF: 40 -> 35
Forward tilt hitbox size: 3.5/3.5/3.5 -> 3.7/3.7/3.7
Up tilt hitbox size: 4.5/4.0 -> 4.7/4.2
Up smash hitbox details: sourspot replaced with additional sweetspot
Up smash hitbox size: 4.8/7.2 -> 5.0/7.4
Down smash hitbox size: 4.8/5.7/4.8/5.7 -> 5.0/5.9/5.0/5.9
Down smash KBG: 69 -> 75
Air Dodge Intangibility: 4-29 -> 3-30
Nair (clean, foot) hitbox size: 4.0 -> 4.3
Nair (late) hitbox size: 3.5 -> 3.7
Nair (late) hitbox active: 8-30 -> 8-32
Fair hitbox size: 4.5/3.2 -> 4.7/3.4
Fair (late) hitbox active: 10-20 -> 10-23
Fair FAF: 37 -> 34
Uair hitbox size: 4.0/3.0/3.0 -> 4.4/3.4/3.4
Uair FAF 45 -> 38
Uair landing lag 15F -> 12F
Bair hitbox size: 4.0/4.5 -> 4.2/4.7
Dair (loop hits 1-8) damage: 1.5 -> 1.625
Standing grab hitbox size: +0.2 each hitbox
Dash grab hitbox size: +0.2 each hitbox
Pivot grab hitbox size: +0.3 each hitbox
Pummel damage: 3.1 -> 3.3
Pummel FAF: 21 -> 18
Up throw KBG: 30 -> 55
Rollout hitbox size: 2.5 (smaller than rest) -> 3.9
Rollout begin charge: -3 frames
Rollout charge time: -8 frames
Rollout Damage: 7-14 -> 8-16
Rollout KBG: 92 -> 96
Rollout Further Details: Jigglypuff can now move to the left and right as she falls after landing the move speed (calc as air speed) = 0.425 acceleration and deceleration = 0.07 friction = 0.02. Sweetspot ledge = true.
Pound hitbox active: 13-28 -> 13-30
Pound Damage: 11 -> 12
Pound Shield damage: 20 -> 24
Pound FAF: 46 -> 42
Pound hitbox details: new reflect box: active frames: 13-32 position: x=0 y=4 z=10 size: 7.0 reflect strength: 1.5x breaks at: 50%
Pound Further Details: Jigglypuff now slides 12% further when using the move in the air (by extending how long she is sliding forward for, rather than sliding faster).
Sing Active Frames: 29-33, 73-77, 122-134 -> 27-35, 71-79, 120-139
Sing FAF: 180 -> 164
Sing hitbox size: (1) +0.3 (2) +0.3 (3) +0.4
Sing sleep duration formula: see below
Rest hitbox active: 2-4 -> 2-6
Rest KBG: 66 -> 73
Rest shield damage: 0 -> 30
Rest hitbox size: 3.4 -> 3.8
Rest Further Details: Rest now has a unique attribute of forcing the target into a star KO or screen KO animation when KOing off the upper blast line. Jigglypuff is also stalled in the air while using aerial rest, resulting in equivalent stats of:
gravity = 0.048 (normally 0.05309) fall speed: 0.86 (normally 0.98). Does not apply to sustained knockback.

So as for the sing sleep duration formula, i do not actually have access to the currently used formula, but i do have access to the melee one: no of frames = (2 x damage) + 95 - (7 x inputs). I can use this as a template for the applied change to the current formula (which is the same except for the numbers), as so: ((+0.5) x damage) +(+10) -((-1) x inputs). So the melee formula would become (2.5 x damage (rounded up)) + 105 - (6 x inputs).

So you seem to know a lot about this stuff, so I have to ask: what do you intend to come from this? What I mean is combo game, edgeguarding, practical uses for attacks etc...

I had a buff idea for uair that was nerf bkb and kbg, buff damage output (more hitstun right?), and frame data, so that way it combos into itself and other attacks (like Rest) more reliably. Don't know if it would work as expected, but I do think the concept would work well into the character.

 

[TheLobsterCopter5000]

So you seem to know a lot about this stuff, so I have to ask: what do you intend to come from this? What I mean is combo game, edgeguarding, practical uses for attacks etc...

I had a buff idea for uair that was nerf bkb and kbg, buff damage output (more hitstun right?), and frame data, so that way it combos into itself and other attacks (like Rest) more reliably. Don't know if it would work as expected, but I do think the concept would work well into the character.

Ok, there are a couple of problems with the Uair suggestions you made, and i will try to address them. Firstly, increasing damage does not necessarily lead to more hitstun. Hitstun is based purely on knockback, and since you planed on reducing the knockback, this would result in less hitstun. Damage does affect knockback, but you suggested to reduce the knockback values.

As for Uair comboing into itself and rest, the problem there isn't the Uair, but Jigglypuff, as her floaty nature means that she would not be able to get the necessary height in time to get a follow up off of Uair.

 

[FunAtParties]

Ok, there are a couple of problems with the Uair suggestions you made, and i will try to address them. Firstly, increasing damage does not necessarily lead to more hitstun. Hitstun is based purely on knockback, and since you planed on reducing the knockback, this would result in less hitstun. Damage does affect knockback, but you suggested to reduce the knockback values.

As for Uair comboing into itself and rest, the problem there isn't the Uair, but Jigglypuff, as her floaty nature means that she would not be able to get the necessary height in time to get a follow up off of Uair.

Thanks for the info, so is there any way we can get uair to perform like I would like or no because of her floatiness?

 

[TheLobsterCopter5000]

Thanks for the info, so is there any way we can get uair to perform like I would like or no because of her floatiness?

other than making it a very weak spike (which would completely eliminate its usage as an emergency kill move) no.

 

[FunAtParties]

other than making it a very weak spike (which would completely eliminate its usage as an emergency kill move) no.

Yeah that'd be weird