The ideal patch: Greninja

Dec 24, 2016
For some reason, greninja was heavily nerfed in patch 1.0.4, but in this particular patch note thread, i plan on undoing these nerfs (and adding a few buffs as well). Here are Greninja's "1.1.7" patch notes:

Hard landing lag: 4 frames -> 3 frames
Dash attack FAF: 31 -> 28
Standing grab active frames: 10-11 -> 9-11
Dash grab active frames: 9-10 -> 9-11
Pivot grab active frames: 15-16 -> 12-14
Pummel damage: 2 -> 3
Up smash (thrust) hitbox radius: 5 -> 6.5 (old value)
Up smash (clean) hitbox radius: 6 -> 7 (old value)
Up smash (clean) damage: 11 -> 13 (old value)
Up smash (clean) Y-offset: -4 -> -5 (old value)
Up smash (late) damage: 10 -> 11 (old value)
Down smash KBG: 90 -> 93 (old value)
Fair KBG: 84 -> 92 (old value)
Uair (last hit) KBG: 168 -> 190 (old value)
Hydro pump Base KB: 65 -> 85 (old value)
Hydro pump KBG: 100 -> 130 (old value)
Hurtbox details: Greninja's head hurtbox size has been reverted to it's pre 1.0.4 size

As usual if there is anything i have done wrong, or you want me to add, please let me know (but please be polite as you do so).
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Smash Journeyman
Dec 17, 2014
lol im pretty sure this would make him high tier or top tier, which I am totally okay with. Personally, I think his killing power is already good as is. Greninja's 2 main weaknesses are his mediocre frame data getting him stuffed out by characters like sonic, fox, falcon. This along with his poor oos game. While I would love to have his old hydro pump back and his better hitboxes, the boost in power seems unreasonable, since his smashes can already kill some characters in the 70% range. I would take a look at the frame data of his aerials. The grab buff is very nice.


Smash Cadet
Aug 23, 2015
Burlington, Vermont
His upsmash is crazy good and old hydro pump was absolutely stupid. I'd love to see him get buffs but I don't think that's where he needs it. The only buff I would really want is a few frames of landing lag taken off of nair. It'd make him more aggressive, make footstool combos off nair work for a wider percent range, and it would make his kill confirms off of nair more reliable. Other than that I'd be fine with some quality of life buffs, more 2-3 active frames on hit 1/2 of bair, less lag in the air for fair, upair, and nair, make ftilt have either less startup or Endlag, etc. I've given up on down b but I guess they could rework it