The Ideal "4.0"

[PillsBuryDopeBoy]

and we would need larger stages, a lot larger.

Like just imagine how big final destination would have to be to fit 8 players all at once. And the the blast line would also have to be increased to accommodate the stage sizes.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

Like just imagine how big final destination would have to be to fit 8 players all at once. And the the blast line would also have to be increased to accommodate the stage sizes.

Yoshi's Story...

 

[PillsBuryDopeBoy]

Yoshi's Story...

 

[Shin F.]

8-Man Melee, Any character, Summit only.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

8-Man Melee, Any character, Summit only.

Items....

Spoiler

ONNNN!!!!

 

[PillsBuryDopeBoy]

Items.....




























































































ON!

Q -.-
YOU KNOW ITS NO ITEMS, FOX ONLY, FINAL DESTINATION!!!!

 

[The_NZA]

Q -.-
YOU KNOW ITS NO ITEMS, FOX ONLY, FINAL DESTINATION!!!!

I await the magnificent day when its
"no items ike only distant planet GO!"

 

[Spire]

One stage representing every character. I know this list will be somewhat controversial, but it's simply what I'd like to see:

• Wario — Warioware Inc.
• Mario — Metal Cavern
• Luigi — Luigi's Mansion (Revert: Dracula's Castle, fix for playability)
• Peach — Peach's Castle
• Bowser — Bowser's Castle (Replace: Delfino Plaza)
• Yoshi — Yoshi's Story (Melee)
• Donkey Kong — Kongo Jungle 64
• Diddy Kong — Rumble Falls
• Captain Falcon — Port Town Aero Drive (Fixed: keep it static, kill the rails, drop the cars)
• Wolf — Venom/New Stage
• Fox — Corneria
• Falco — Lylat Cruise
• Ice Climbers — Summit (Fixed: no breaking, no sliding, no hazards)
• Zelda — Hyrule Castle
• Sheik — Temple of Time (Replace: Temple)
• Link — Skyloft
• Toon Link — Pirate Ship (Fixed: no hazards)
• Ganondorf — Ganon's Castle/Pyramid of Power
• Mewtwo — Cerulean Cave/Cinnabar Mansion/Mewtwo's Castle (Replace: Saffron City)
• Lucario — Spear Pillar (No hazards)
• Pikachu/Jigglypuff — Pokémon Stadium
• Squirtle/Ivysaur/Charizard — Pokémon Stadium 2
• Samus — Norfair
• Zero Suit Samus — Frigate Orpheon (Fixed)
• Lucas — Fourside
• Ness — Onett (Redesigned & no hazards)
• Pit — Skyworld
• Kirby — Dreamland
• Meta Knight — Halberd (No hazards)
• King Dedede — Fountain of Dreams
• Ike — Castle Siege
• Marth/Roy — New Stage (What Fire Emblem stage would have been in Melee...? Maybe take the right half of Temple and work into an FE stage)
• Olimar — Distant Planet
• R.O.B. — Smashville/Training Room
• Mr. Game & Watch — Flat Zone (1 or 2)
• Snake — Shadow Moses Island
• Sonic — Green Hill Zone

 

[Freduardo]

It's not possible. It's just my crazy ideal. It's an ideal, it's allowed to be crazy. But yes, it would only be allowed on Temple and New Pork CIty sized stages.

 

[Yurya]

Gamemode:

Smash Bros Volleyball

modified soccerball, new stage, allow characters to input the DI of the ball, oh yeah.

 

[UberMario]

-Project M adopts the Expansion Pack to create their own unique roster, with 39 tournament viable stages on page 1 and the more casual stages on page 2
-Ganondorf gets a sword mode taunt switch ala Samus
-A launch option for Project M allows turbo wifi by default
-A launch option that causes it to rain bob-ombs, regardless of sudden death status
-Cloaking Device replaces Smoke Ball
-Red Shell replaces Deku Nut
-Roy gets his 3.0 Final Smash back
-Fox's Up Smash nerfed to Melee PAL levels

Alt Costumes:
-Hard Hat Wario
-Ice Mario with Ice Effect
-Sunshine Mario
-Ice Luigi with Ice Effect
-Ice Peach with Ice Effect
-Armored Bowser
-SSBM/SMW Yoshi
-Helmetless GP Legend Captain Falcon
-LTTP Link
-Classic Samus
-Zero Mission Justin Bailey Zero Suit Samus
-Kirby with a bowtie
-Maked DeDeDe
-Vanguard Ike


Assuming that the potential 5 slots would be clones to save effort:
-Ridley as a projectile-based, quicker Charizard clone
-Saki as a hybrid Marth/Fox clone
-Isaac as a heavy Zelda clone, with his down B being a smaller version of his assist trophy move which can block projectiles
-Little Mac as a Mario clone with Lucario's magic system, star punch over B, flameless raptor boost over side B, Luigi's down aerial and counter over down B
-Waluigi using a rebalanced/polished version of the PSA already out for him

Assuming that those actually happen:
-Little Mac AT reskinned to Box Boxer (was a sticker) or Doc Louis
-Isaac reskined to Ashley (was a sticker)
-Saki reskinned to Airan Jo

Considering the huge leap between 2.0 and 3.0, this would probably be big enough.

Spoiler

Pichu can go stay in the "never in Smash again" section with a non-decloned Young Link.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Lyn.

10lyns

 

[RIDLEY is too SMALL]

12. Removal of the Rock portion of the Pokemon Stadium 1 stage.

Yes please.

 

[BertEast]

Something of a buff for poor Jigglypuff. She struggles so hard in Project M.

 

[PillsBuryDopeBoy]

Something of a buff for poor Jigglypuff. She struggles so hard in Project M.

She struggles so hard in Project M.

She struggles so hard in Project M.

If jiggypuff gets buffed, all hell's gonna break loose. I mean the girl has 5 jumps, one of the best aerial games ever, she's hard as hell to combo on, she is one of the few characters that can't really be chained grabbed, she can easily get in and out of an opponents attack range, and she essentially is the definition of a "wall of pain". Sure you can say that she is very light, and can die at a pretty low percent, but in the grand scale of things, the positives out-way the negatives.

If anything if one character that many people struggle against.

 

[BertEast]

If jiggypuff gets buffed, all hell's gonna break loose. I mean the girl has 5 jumps, one of the best aerial games ever, she's hard as hell to combo on, she is one of the few characters that can't really be chained grabbed, she can easily get in and out of an opponents attack range, and she essentially is the definition of a "wall of pain". Sure you can say that she is very light, and can die at a pretty low percent, but in the grand scale of things, the positives out-way the negatives.
If anything if one character that many people struggle against.

Sure, on paper she is a great character, but her role as an aerial machine are well rivaled, and has lost spotlights to Wario and Pit(See Armada) and with many more characters having better recoveries and better aerials, she has a lot harder time. Let us look at Luigi for example. Luigi's aerials have priority of Jigglypuff, his recovery is great, and with his low hitstun can escape combos or aerial walls very easily. This is one example of a character who has an absolute advantage. A small portion of the cast still struggles against jiggs, but ask any PM jiggs main and he'll tell you that she feels weak.

Also: Headband Puff for alt. Costume

 

[Yurya]

Sure, on paper she is a great character, but her role as an aerial machine are well rivaled, and has lost spotlights to Wario and Pit(See Armada) and with many more characters having better recoveries and better aerials, she has a lot harder time. Let us look at Luigi for example. Luigi's aerials have priority of Jigglypuff, his recovery is great, and with his low hitstun can escape combos or aerial walls very easily. This is one example of a character who has an absolute advantage. A small portion of the cast still struggles against jiggs, but ask any PM jiggs main and he'll tell you that she feels weak.

Also: Headband Puff for alt. Costume

First off yes Jiggz is a terrible design as she is really hard to adapt too yet the jump in effectiveness once you do learn her is very big.

That said she does not need buffs unless she is also given nerfs. Your Luigi arguement doesn't hold weight as the difference between their air control and air speed is massive.

And headband Puff would be awesome but would take a helluva alot of work (the head band would need its own "bones").

 

[BertEast]

First off yes Jiggz is a terrible design as she is really hard to adapt too yet the jump in effectiveness once you do learn her is very big.

That said she does not need buffs unless she is also given nerfs. Your Luigi arguement doesn't hold weight as the difference between their air control and air speed is massive.

And headband Puff would be awesome but would take a helluva alot of work (the head band would need its own "bones").

I'm just saying for Jiggs vs Luigi it is pretty bad for Jiggs. And she has a hella lot of bad matchups. She doesn't need any huge buffs, just some that help her game. Return her F-throw, make rollout or sing more viable, Something.

 

[Yurya]

I'm just saying for Jiggs vs Luigi it is pretty bad for Jiggs. And she has a hella lot of bad matchups. She doesn't need any huge buffs, just some that help her game. Return her F-throw, make rollout or sing more viable, Something.

Oh if we are talking redesigning Puff then I can go on forever, because as it stands now she is very centralized around bair and Rest. Not that that isn't effective: Hbox has shown that she can still destroy with those tools, but since we are talking "Ideal 4.0," there are a few ideas to redesign Puff:

Significantly weaken Rest or just straight up remove it so it is a taunt or something.
Slow Bair down while buffing KO abilities.
Increase jump height.
Speed Pound up significantly and lower the KB angle to go straight back; better combo possibilities.
Give Fair a nice sweetspot for KOs and a sour spot for combos.
Transform Rollout to be much like Sonic's Homing Attack but with KO kb and significant punishability.
Without Rest, Sing could be made much more effective.

Then again the biggest problem PM faces is that "everything is subject to change" and it might be best if the PMBR keeps their hands off for good so people won't be punished for learning a character that gets changed. Then again this thread is called the "Ideal 4.0."

 

[Szion]

Not Pichu

Agreed!

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Maybe the problem about Jigglypuff is that the moveset is a bit one-sided and you keep using the same moves which often leads to very good and very bad but not balanced matchups. A little buff on underused moves (for example the brawl sweetspot on Fair [i think there is one :D] or a change of one throw) could definitely help Jigglypuff in the very bad matchups.

 

[trash?]

puff isn't really... good for the sake of being good. they were good because of how anti-metagame they were in melee. they conveniently countered things that people did at the time (remember, they started hitting big at a time where M2K's style of play was basically a complex flowchart, and they could easily ruin that flowchart without much trouble), and played nice with top tiers, so top tier they were. this isn't really the case in project m, a game where the characters who could've theoretically countered them in melee only got better.

ofc, things like wario having a OHKO move on jiggs doesn't help lmao

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Jiggs can rest Wario after footstooling him guaranteed (uncommon situation but it helps a bit in that tricky matchup at least) ^^

 

[trash?]

he can, yes. but that has little comparison to an upb wario can do at any time, at any percent, and kill with, assuming good techskill

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Can you crouchcancel the Up-B to not die? Because it might get you a free rest

 

[turtletank]

Jigglypuff need to be redesigned, a buff isn't enough.

 

[PillsBuryDopeBoy]

Jigglypuff need to be redesigned, a buff isn't enough.

A Jigglypuff redesign would be pretty awesome.

 

[Jevedor]

-Ganondorf gets a sword mode taunt switch ala Samus

This, or the Black Shadow model swap giving Ganondorf a new move set.

 

[BertEast]

Oh if we are talking redesigning Puff then I can go on forever, because as it stands now she is very centralized around bair and Rest. Not that that isn't effective: Hbox has shown that she can still destroy with those tools, but since we are talking "Ideal 4.0," there are a few ideas to redesign Puff:

Significantly weaken Rest or just straight up remove it so it is a taunt or something.
Slow Bair down while buffing KO abilities.
Increase jump height.
Speed Pound up significantly and lower the KB angle to go straight back; better combo possibilities.
Give Fair a nice sweetspot for KOs and a sour spot for combos.
Transform Rollout to be much like Sonic's Homing Attack but with KO kb and significant punishability.
Without Rest, Sing could be made much more effective.

Then again the biggest problem PM faces is that "everything is subject to change" and it might be best if the PMBR keeps their hands off for good so people won't be punished for learning a character that gets changed. Then again this thread is called the "Ideal 4.0."

For designing,
Speed up pound.
Give Sing a more effective reach
Give some utility out of rollout, such as an air dodge or allow her to use fair out of it. Or something

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Is there also a possibilty making more of the matchups from won or lost to even without changing the character completely? Beacuse I don't think Jigglypuff mains would like it despite I see there is in a way a need for it. Just a few possibilities that wouldnt change the char entirely:
-Jiggs can footstool shielded opponents but can't rest after that (maybe just like Warios waft the sleep would just fail) for like 2,5 seconds
-Fair sweetspot with kill power
-Bair disjointed hitbox getting a tiny bit smaller

 

[SPIRE_FAN]

- The option to play as Pokemon Trainer (as in the way he played in Brawl but the Pokemon don't get exhausted) and I mean as an *option*. So the 3 Pokemon he uses will not be any different from their project m versions, just their down-B replaced with Pokemon Change. Or make Pokemon Change a Taunt, but in that case, the Pokemon would have to have a stamina mechanic again.
- Smash 64 and Brawl Final Destinations as alternate stages
- Smash 64 and Melee Battlefield as alternate stages (I understand you can just download stage mods, but it would be cool to actually have these stages in the game)
- Let all of the Pokemon Trainer Pokemon use Triple Finish for Final Smashes (or at least give them something). Yes, people do play 4-player party mode in Project-M (very fun).
- For Alternate Costumes/Alt Characters as Costumes: Dark Samus, Young Link, and Different Pokemon Trainers (HGSS, RSE, DPPL, BW, BW2, and XY would all be great choices)
- Pichu

- Fighting Alloy's as Characters (Just Kidding).

 

[BertEast]

Lyndis, Sothe, Micaiah, anybody. I want more Fire Emblem characters!

 

[Val KIlmer]

Let's face it. There's a reason why the updated versions only increase the number by a small fraction: The updates are minor.

What changes/additions would be enough (or mandatory) for a PM update to be considered in your eyes "4.0"?

Personally I just want Young Link and his flaming arrows.

 

[Daftatt]

Things I'd like to see:

• The ability to C - Stick buffer AND play on WiFi without having to switch anything. I'd like to be able to use Ganon's Dair without having ANY landing lag.

• Pichu added, with a unique moveset. He can keep his lame damage trait if they give him a good grab/combo game to make up for it. Basically, he needs to be roughly even to Pikachu, instead of it being very clear who the superior "chu" is

• Snake to be given two grenades again. I like the shorter fuse, but that doesn't make up for one grenade if you ask me.
• This one will sound shaky, but the addition of Assist Trophy characters such as Waluigi that have mostly sufficient data for a hack.
• ALL levels, from ALL three games, with the ability to turn the stage hazards on or off.
• Basic Project M. I know it'll likely never happen, and everyone but me seems to hate BB, but I think that since only the more dedicated smash players bother to download/install PM, you'll have far less taunt partiers, and the like. It'll be quick and easy to get a match, one on one, or FFA.

• Custom costumes for EVERY character, and at least two for each. I'd also like Melee counterparts to the characters that changed like Ganon
  
• Final Smashes for the Pokemon who have none.
• Adventure Mode from Melee (A HUGE part of the nostalgia I got from Melee that went missing in PM)
• Certain characters buffed or further luigified in order to make them more unique. For example, making Roy's Dair have less landing lag than even Marth's, in order to help make him on par with Marth, instead of Marth always dominating Roy, (Not sure if that's the case in PM, but he was higher on the tier list by far in Melee) and giving a few more original moves to clones/ semi clones like Ganon, Falco, Roy, so on so forth.

buffer? go back to brawl . PM is not going to add a buffer mechanic considering you can already turn one on if you don't like timing things correctly. Snake does NOT need buffed, watch rolex, snake is really really good. They could add more levels, but the PMBR will only add in levels that are professional looking, so that rules out most things on brawl-vault. Adventure mode? Do you even know how the modding works? They cannot do that. Roy's dair does not need buffed, marth does not always dominate roy (watch some freaking matches this isn't melee anymore). THEY CANNOT change falco, the entirety of people who actually know how to play him would flip, falco is fine as he is.

 

[br8k]

Lyndis, Sothe, Micaiah, anybody. I want more Fire Emblem characters!

Oh man, for Fire Emblem characters I'd love Linus and Lloyd Reed from FE7. They're heroic good guys who you're forced to kill because they're manipulated to be loyal to the bad guys to the death. Cool characters.

Lloyd, being a Swordmaster, would probably be like that Lyn moveset that's floating around. Linus is literally of the "Hero" class, so he has a shield...... Not sure how to implement that best though. Speaking from an IDEAL and unrealistic perspective, it would be interesting to have a character who uses a shield for their shield, giving them the ability to perfect shield any attack from the front without concern about timing, but without any back protection, and/or no jump OoS. I doubt that can be coded conveniently though. It would probably be better to make him based off Link for the sword+shield base, but with non-projectile specials.

Both characters have Badass Longcoats, even in their sprites.

Linus's critical hit would make a reasonable Ike-esque up-B. Lloyd's critical hit would be a cool chargeable B, the longer you hold B, the more teleporty after-images of him appear, and the more slashes he does when he releases. Maybe you could even store it like Sheik, although that would be weird given the tension of the move. edit: Maybe could even have a down-b transform-style bro swap. brosbrosbros

I can dream. >:[

 

[BertEast]

Oh man, for Fire Emblem characters I'd love Linus and Lloyd Reed from FE7. They're heroic good guys who you're forced to kill because they're manipulated to be loyal to the bad guys to the death. Cool characters.

Lloyd, being a Swordmaster, would probably be like that Lyn moveset that's floating around. Linus is literally of the "Hero" class, so he has a shield...... Not sure how to implement that best though. Speaking from an IDEAL and unrealistic perspective, it would be interesting to have a character who uses a shield for their shield, giving them the ability to perfect shield any attack from the front without concern about timing, but without any back protection, and/or no jump OoS. I doubt that can be coded conveniently though. It would probably be better to make him based off Link for the sword+shield base, but with non-projectile specials.

Both characters have Badass Longcoats, even in their sprites.

Linus's critical hit would make a reasonable Ike-esque up-B. Lloyd's critical hit would be a cool chargeable B, the longer you hold B, the more teleporty after-images of him appear, and the more slashes he does when he releases. Maybe you could even store it like Sheik, although that would be weird given the tension of the move.

I can dream. >:[

There are just so many great fire emblem characters that could be added. Jaffar would be pretty awesome too.

 

[MoonlapseOpethian]

-Project M adopts the Expansion Pack to create their own unique roster, with 39 tournament viable stages on page 1 and the more casual stages on page 2
-Ganondorf gets a sword mode taunt switch ala Samus
-A launch option for Project M allows turbo wifi by default
-A launch option that causes it to rain bob-ombs, regardless of sudden death status
-Cloaking Device replaces Smoke Ball
-Red Shell replaces Deku Nut
-Roy gets his 3.0 Final Smash back
-Fox's Up Smash nerfed to Melee PAL levels

Alt Costumes:
-Hard Hat Wario
-Ice Mario with Ice Effect
-Sunshine Mario
-Ice Luigi with Ice Effect
-Ice Peach with Ice Effect
-Armored Bowser
-SSBM/SMW Yoshi
-Helmetless GP Legend Captain Falcon
-LTTP Link
-Classic Samus
-Zero Mission Justin Bailey Zero Suit Samus
-Kirby with a bowtie
-Maked DeDeDe
-Vanguard Ike


Assuming that the potential 5 slots would be clones to save effort:
-Ridley as a projectile-based, quicker Charizard clone
-Saki as a hybrid Marth/Fox clone
-Isaac as a heavy Zelda clone, with his down B being a smaller version of his assist trophy move which can block projectiles
-Little Mac as a Mario clone with Lucario's magic system, star punch over B, flameless raptor boost over side B, Luigi's down aerial and counter over down B
-Waluigi using a rebalanced/polished version of the PSA already out for him

Assuming that those actually happen:
-Little Mac AT reskinned to Box Boxer (was a sticker) or Doc Louis
-Isaac reskined to Ashley (was a sticker)
-Saki reskinned to Airan Jo

Considering the huge leap between 2.0 and 3.0, this would probably be big enough.

Spoiler

Pichu can go stay in the "never in Smash again" section with a non-decloned Young Link.

These seem like good ideas indeed. I'm defnitely favoring the Ganon sword mode. I used a mod with it, but a PM official version would be alot smoother and prevent desynchs.

 

[LeoEmpire]

As a predominantly casual player, I wouldn't mind seeing a little bit more for us: specifically in the stage department.

What y'all did with Green Hill Zone gave me an idea of having modes for each stage. One that was more balanced and competitive and one that had hazards and mechanics, these could even be in the same relative area (like how the Brawl Green Hill was in the background for Project M's). This not only allows for more options in tournament play, but it would also give us casual players back the fun stages and still enjoy the new character balances and Melee mechanics.

I don't have any idea if that would be possible, but I would like to see maybe a version of the patch that only alters the overall play mechanics and the characters while leaving the Brawl stages intact. I feel like that might be relatively doable.

 

[Banjodorf]

Wishlist:

More balancing
Color sliders back. Those things were awesome.
Lyn + Isaac or just one of them. Or something. Both is my ideal, but not expected/logical.
More alt costumes! Aside from character slots, that's one of the only fun aesthetic things left to add. Tuxedo Snake, Sonic white/gold/orange colors, Top hat/suit Pikachu, Samus suits! (Light Suit ftfw.)
A tuned version of splat's Bowser's Castle/Clock Tower stages? PLEASE? They're so glorious!

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

I downloaded Calabrel's pack to make every stage like a tournament legal one. Guess I'm odd.