- Nov 15, 2007
"Who the hell is that?"
Never heard of it? That's not too surprising. The game largely flew under the radar in the States, as it was released towards the end of the Nintendo Entertainment System's lifespan. Not only that, it was a time in which nobody really knew what a JRPG was, much less cared about it. The genre didn't really become popular in the States until later FInal Fantasy games were released, so most Westerners have never played Dragon Quest III. Japan? That's a different story.
Dragon Quest is by far the most popular JRPG series there, along Final Fantasy. Dragon Quest III was responsible for making RPGs popular in Japan and made Dragon Quest famous. It was so influential-and remarkable for its time.
Addition: To show how popular Dragon Quest III is in Japan, even in modern times, here are two game surveys from Famitsu. Dragon Quest III was in the top 3 for both of the results.
Japan's 100 Favorite Video Games
Best All-Time Game (Famitsu 1500th edition)
Who is Erdrick?
Erdrick is the hero of Dragon Quest III. Admittedly, that's a spoiler. It's not actually clear until halfway through the game (that the hero is named by that. Note: 'Roto' in japanese). In the first two games, the protagonist is the descendant of the legendary hero Erdrick. The first half of Dragon Quest III took place in an entirely different world, so it seemed to be unrelated. So when the protagonist is sent to the old one and we discover that he's the legendary hero we had heard of but never got to play, it comes as a bit of a surprise. Technically, Erdrick is not even his real name. It's a title, bestowed upon him by the king. His "real" name is supposed to be the player's. Erdrick's personality and background is not extremely detailed; he's the chosen one, groomed by birth to stop the villain Baramos... and that's more or less all we get. Still, it was a simpler time, but the game has more to it too. Also, Erdrick can be male or female.
What would Erdrick offer to Smash?
There aren't many candidates for Dragon Quest characters in Super Smash Bros. The Slime is the most obvious one, but the Slime does very little besides attack and fuse with other slimes in most of the games it's in. It arguably fits better as an Assist Trophy. Erdrick is the protagonist of potentially the most popular Dragon Quest game in Japan, and as a character he's much easier to implement. Like Robin he uses both swords and magic, but he'd function very differently. He does not use any sort of tome in order to fight and his weapons do not break. Not only that, he would use Dragon Quest spells, not Fire Emblem spells. Erdrick would also fill a unique niche in Super Smash Bros. roster as a fighter who uses a sword and shield. Link also possesses a sword and shield, but he doesn't really use the shield as a weapon, whereas Erdrick could potentially incorporate the shield into his moveset. Not only that, Link uses a variety of weapons instead of magic. Erdrick also has access to many different weapons and items.
3. S SEGAGameBoy
9. Golden Icarus
16. Blackmage Kuja
26. Gum-Gum Smash
28. Aurora Jenny
35. Rumble Red
41. ryumo the Zekenator
50. Jovahexeon Joranvexeon
65. A Akira_Joker
67. Isaac: Venus Adept
69. Smashing Ramen
72. Plato Xaiver
76. Adol Christin
77. cool mario bros
Credit to GM_3826 for starting the thread way back near the start of Ultimate's speculation cycle.
shinhed-ichi is right; it's difficult to see Erdrick getting into the game... but that doesn't mean that we should lose hope! It'd be an awesome moment for Dragon Quest in general. The main thing he has going for him is Vergeben's leaks. While his not have been confirmed, they have been accurate so far. He has stated that there would be two Square Enix characters, so it is possible that he could be a DLC character.
~Info, Leaks, and Datamines~
I'm putting this section in spoiler tags. It contains a lot of info and leaks around erdrick being in DLC:
(Note: it's a long section)
In december some anonymous leaks popped up on 5ch, a japanese text forum, and one of them turned out to be quite notable for the information in it. It listed the two first dlc characters, one being Joker, and the other being Erdrick. Joker had already been revealed, but the rest of the details are important.
Here is a translated version of it:
The stage is Mementos
Jack Frost appears on screen with a skill
Marketing of P5R (complete version) and P5U (fighting game)
P5R is 2019
P5U is delayed because Arc is busy with the development of a Granblue fighting game
Stage is Alefgard
Erdrick (Male) and Erdrick (Female), 2 colors each of Anlucia and the Dragon Quest XI Hero
Slime appears on screen with a skill
Achieved through active collaboration on Square’s side
To the benefit of overseas marketing for the DQ series
Among the claims, It lists that Mementos is the stage coming with Joker. As it turns out, it was much later found through datamined data that it is highly likely the case. Dataminers had come to know that 'jack' is the codename given for joker in the Ultimate's data, and these strings were uncovered:
Digging through LVD files in Ultimate, and I found "Jack_Menentoes_" lying around amongst the strings. The format of this string matches stage name strings in ui_stage_db ("[Series]_[Stage]"), and Joker's internal name is "jack". Mementos stage confirmed? pic.twitter.com/eCh3PxU2bR— Dr. HyperCake (@DrHyperCake) February 20, 2019
Note: As of Joker's release in smash, we know that Mementos is the stage, however we've seen nothing of Jack Frost, so that's a heavy hit on the leak unless it was simply scrapped for whatever reason.
It also lists two versions for Persona 5, to come in the future. P5R did get revealed later on, and according to PolarPanda , who has some inside information, there is actually a P5U game that's been delayed.
Persona 5U is internally delayed, the 5chan leak was correct. Arc System Works has been putting most of their work towards the Granblue Fighting Game and Blazblue. However, it's still coming. It doesn't look to be a 2019 game, though.— Sabi (@New_WabiSabi) March 4, 2019
This boosts the credibility of the leak, though now it did get something wrong, now that we've seen joker's full moveset.
As for what the leak says on Erdrick being a dlc fighter, there's not too much we can say about it yet either, but it's interesting that it lists two other characters as alternate costumes, Anlucia and Luminary.
Luminary is the main protagonist from Dragon Quest 11, the most recent Dragon Quest game, and Anlucia is a main character from Dragon Quest 10. Both are heroes that use swords and magic just like Erdrick. (Note : there is no main character in the tenth game because it's an MMO, where you can totally customize your character, so Anlucia is the next best choice.) Both are modern characters that could contrast nicely with Erdrick as a retro pick. Character heights are pretty variable with Dragon Quest, so they could easily be designed to work fine as one fighter in Smash.
It's hinted that Luminary has some kind of relation with Erdrick. The specifics involve a spoiler from his game, so read at your own discretion:
As for Anlucia, there is no connection that we know of, but Dragon Quest X is still a modern game in the series and can fill for another female alt since Luminary has no female version.
She is recognizable enough in japan to be in the latest 'Itadaki Street' game along with Final Fantasy characters (as a crossover).
This is her appearance in that game. Notice that it's a shorter (chibi) version of her, adding to that heights can be pretty flexible.
I might as well share a chibi Luminary too:
Insiders & Leakers
In addition to the anonymous leak, there are leakers that have mentioned Erdrick. Two of the most notable ones are Tansut and Vergeben.
Tansut leaked Cloud as Smash 4 dlc before his reveal, and recently mentioned that he knew about him far in advance. He says that this same source told him Erdrick is going to be a dlc fighter, with a male and female alt.
2) Post saying that Erdrick came from the same source
3) Post saying that there's male and female versions
4) First post about DQ (with the semi-vague DQ image)
As for Vergeben, he was the most notable leaker during this smash cycle. His information was correct about most characters coming to the game before they were revealed (including that all veteran characters would be returning). He knew about some of the characters way in advance too. And, he's recently backed Erdrick for being Square Enix's second fighter, as dlc.
Lately, Vergeben's credibility has been put in question because he got information wrong in February's Nintendo Direct. He made claims about games that did not pan out. It does hurt his image, however it's important to know that from everything said, his main sources were not the ones that gave him the false information. A user called ZenythVidya pressed him for having poorly made assumptions around the information he had, including about the 2d zelda, and released private messages about what he did know. (and that he could've known better)
2) Zenyth's post about how Verge could've cleared things up
More from Zenyth(upset about the bad info):
i also told him to NEVER share rumors for upcoming directs and look what happened.
(If you want to read a bit on one theory regarding the minecraft info, you can check out this document in support of Erdrick by MintPepsi, talking about it in the Leaks and Rumors. Some also heard it may not have come from a main source.)
Other leakers and insiders have talked about Erdrick, like Hitagi and xenother, though they don't have as good of a track record. (Note: xenother does not have a public record for leaking, but PolarPanda has backed him for having insider information.)
Smash Ultimate was datamined and they found data for new fighters. There were two after piranha plant and both were codenamed. The first was named 'Jack', which refers to Joker, while the second is called 'Brave'. There was also fighter data for both.
Ok so since the secret's out, here's confirmation. Params in Ultimate confirm the code names of 2 future characters, "jack" and "brave".— jam1garner (@jam1garner) January 3, 2019
The labels for these characters:
fighter_kind_packu (piranha plant) pic.twitter.com/rCRRg8KR3W
Weight — 101
Max Walk Speed — 1.28
Max Run Speed — 1.74
Air Speed — 1.2
Fall Speed — 1.9
Fast Fall Speed — 2.88
Gravity — .09
Height — 13
Shield Size — 11.8
Jumps — 2
Air Acceleration: 0.055
Wall Jump — False
Wall Cling — False
Crawl — False
Tether — False
What's key here is the codename itself. Dragon Quest protagonists are Heroes, and in japanese they are called Yuusha. The word can directly translate to Brave. It can be used as a noun, so even though it doesn't make sense in english, it's possible to inadvertently call a DQ hero a 'brave'. This is further backed by the fact that even the general director for the Kirby series called their shield 'the brave's shield':
This leads a lot of people to believe that the codename in the data refers to a hero from Dragon Quest. It could also be something diferent, but it strengthens the case for Erdrick nonetheless.
One issue that some people have regarding the data is that the height stat is around Ness'. This isn't really a problem though, for three reasons. One is that a lot of data changes, especially for characters in early development, even piranha plant's data significantly changed between patches. The second is that the height stat is not taken directly from the model's height, as there are differences that the stat doesn't reflect. It may simply be used for some calculations within the game. It's still generally correlated with the characters' height, but may not need to be finalized until the end of development. Now that Joker is in the game, we can confirm that his height is higher than the value of 15. (image in training mode, counts 17 spaces)
walk max speed 0.56 >0.76
base run accel 0.02 > 0.06
max run speed you know this already [note: it was a huge change]
jump heights all significantly changed
gravity 0.085 > 0.14
fall speed 1.6 > 1.95
ff speed 2.56 > 2.73
weight 94 > 112
number of jumps 3 > 2
landing lag for every move changed
theres actually a huge number of things that changed from 1.0.0 but iStop listing or I'll be here all day.
Relying too much on the attributes isn't good idea at this point.— Meshima (@Meshima_) January 4, 2019
They have just placeholder landing lag, this implies they are on the very early point of adjustment.
Considering the fact about Plant and Cloud in S4, there is high chance that the values gets drastically changed.
DLC params usually change when they are released regardless of leaks, current values should be what they are planning to use or testing during character development— Ruben (@Ruben_dal) January 4, 2019
Also, here is an image that shows all characters' height values as well as their shield size. The black numbers are the height, and the red numbers are shield size. It's important to note that the order the characters are in is roughly based on the character model, not the height value. There are a few inconsistencies, including falco who's height value is quite lower than where he stands.
The third reason that the height stat is no problem for erdrick is also an excuse to post more art
The original artwork for Erdrick was chibi (a.ka. short) in style. Bonus: The second image here shows off the armor suit.
(original versions for erdrick)
And here is some art from the Gameboy Color game's manual (for chibi female):
Erdrick did undergo a few revisions throughout the years. There are various designs that could be used, and sakurai could either go for a smaller retro one or one of the more modern designs, or maybe some kind of mixed redesign. In whatever case there's plenty of potential.
Erdrick and Dragon Quest for Smash!
Types of Weapons:
Swords, Axes or Clubs, Flails (or Whips), Spears, & Boomerangs (in the remakes) + more
Types of Spells:
Fire, Lightning, Explosion, Healing, Buffing, Debuffing, & Repelling, as well as a Fast Travel spell.
Firzz (Blaze)-> A simple fire spell; affects one enemy.
Heal -> A simple healing spell.
Poof (Expel ) -> Blows away weak enemies.
Zoom (Return) -> Instantaneous travel to a previously visited location.
Sizz (Firebal) -> A weak fire spell that affects a group of enemies.
Kaclang (Ironize ) -> Makes the hero immune to all enemy attacks for a short period of time.
Snooze (Sleep) -> May put a group of enemies to sleep.
Fizzle (StopSpell) -> Try to block the enemies' spell.
Holy Protection (Repel) -> Causes weak enemies to leave you alone.
Sizzle (Firebane ) -> This fire spell affects a group of enemies.
Zap -> Affects one enemy; the first lightning type spell.
Midheal (Healmore) -> A stronger form of Heal.
Boom -> Damages all targets with a powerful explosion.
Fullheal (Healall) -> Restores an ally to full health.
Zing (Vivify ) -> 50% chance to revive a deceased party member.
Omniheal (Healusall) -> Restores the party to full health.
Kazap (Thordain) -> Causes around 200 points of electrical damage to all enemies.
Evac -> Teleports outside.
There are other elemental-type words for spells that may be worth mentioning, even if Erdrick doesn't learn them normally:
Woosh -> Wind-type magic
Crack -> Ice-type magic
Zam -> Dark-type magic (stygian bolt)
In addition to other classes, if we extend beyond Dragon Quest III, there are tons of skills that heroes are able to use. Along with other weapons and spells, this makes Erdrick's moveset potential immense. It wouldn't be all that odd to be able to use later skills, as they even have Erdrick using GigaSlash or Gigagash in Dragon Quest Battle Road Victory:
Note: Most of the movesets we made showcase variety, and involve multiple weapons as well as skills beyond Dragon Quest III.
-Since Luminary is known to only have swords, much of these wouldn't apply. Naoyatodo's moveset uses just a sword for the main weapon used though.
A: Jab or kick
AA: Shield hit
AAA: Bigger sword hit finisher after knocking someone with the shield hit.
A-rapid: Multi-fists (fisticuff) -> Rapid random punches and kicks.
Forward-tilt: Wind Sickles (fisticuff) -> Hands charge up to then launch a wave of arcing wind forward, having great range but not a lot of knock back (maybe just a small wind box along with the damage)
Down-tilt: Leg Sweep (staff/pole) -> Use a staff weapon to sweep forward on the ground. Or simply a sweeping kick. Has a chance to trip.
Up-Tilt: Sword/Axe swing going up OR Whip hit upwards like the belmonts.
Dash Attack: Running Elemental Slash -> An elementally charged up slash like a Fire Slash, or other sword skill like Luminary has in DQ11
Forward Smash: Gigaslash ->Huge lightning infused sword attack forward and towards the ground.
Up Smash: Shining Shot (bow) -> Shoots upwards with a shining arrow that hits upwards and then rains down around erdrick to hit all around.
Down Smash: Whip attack on both sides like the belmonts OR Boom -> Big explosion all around erdrick. Third idea is a strong mace hit back and forth.
Neutral-Aerial: Axes of Evil -> Swings and spins around an axe hitting back and forth, with an effect on it like in the games, providing a big hit box around.
Forward-Aerial: A good Sword strike like some of the sword characters.
Back-Aerial: Boomerang throw or skill, like Starburst Throw backwards (wouldn't go too far, and only does a weak arm hit if boomerang is already out) OR Slime throw (throws a slime that looks happy to be thrown, and hits others on contact)
Up-Aerial: Axe/Sword swing up OR Bang -> could act like Ivysaur's up-air to some degree.
Down-Aerial: Whip hit downwards or Bow shooting arrow downwards -> A bit like Megaman's down-air, but faster startup and no spiking hitbox.
B: Sizzle -> Casts fire that moves forward in a wave motion close to the ground, and also sweeps backwards at some points. (Good as a setup, or making opponents go in the air) Powered up version stays longer if charged with tension.
Side-B: Zap -> Casts lightning that goes forwards and upwards. Is more powerful version and a longer arc if charged with tension.
Up-B: Bang jump -> Casts bang downwards, causing an explosion shooting erdrick upwards. Does not put in free-fall, but can't jump after it. (Can be useful to quickly go in the air after someone and following up, or shooting arrows downwards at someone on the ground, etc) More powerful blast and height with tension charge.
Down-B: Blockenspiel (shield) -> Both a blocking ability as well as an attack. Take reduced damage and no knockback, and attack at the same time (maybe with a small delay?) with the shield. OR Tension up which has a bit of startup (or Feel the burn, which would act like Incineroar's revenge in smash). Give a charge, powering up moves (can be stacked, but may take longer or more to do so).
Grabs: Slime could come out as part of grab or some throws.
Final Smash: Gigagash. Super powered up version that hits a big and wide arc forward. Maybe even party members showing up and using MPathy to give mp to erdrick to use the powerful move, almost like a DBZ spirit bomb moment.
In this post I'm going to talk about 2 possible mechanics that could work for a dragon quest hero. It's not a moveset, but instead a mechanics set. Both Leveling up and having Mana points could work entirely seperately, but I decided to put them together here.
Mana points are used by magical spells, and maybe even some other attacks (like in order to turn them into more powerful skills.)
In order to avoid players being passive by regenerating mana automatically, regaining mp could happen on attacks that are landed. (Bonus: on level ups too)
Alternate idea: Fast automatic mp regeneration.
The hero character would gain exp in order to level up and gain boosts, at least on attacks as well as higher max mp. (speed and knockback possibly too?)
Smash has all kinds of matches (long and short), which means the mechanic has to be limited in some way in order to prevent a character from being overpowered on longer matches, and allow shorter matches to be balanced as well. This can be done by either a low level/strength cap, or resetting levels each stock, or losing 1 level when losing a stock along with a cap.
Gaining exp to level up would be on attacks landed, in addition to some other actions. so that even matches with short stock counts would allow to level up.
example tilt-attack: 10% dmg
max mp: 10
lvl2: 12% dmg & 12 max mp.
lvl3: 14% dmg & 14 max mp.
(example) Sizz using 2mp. Zap using 4 mp. etc
MP regen per hit: 2 or 3 mp depending on which attack. And no regen on magic attacks.
extra -> mana regained on level ups: 4-5 mp
exp needed to level up: 100 (lvl2) -> 150 (lvl3) -> 200 (lvl4) -> etc
(note: that's for if exp points get back to 0 on a level up.)
Exp gained per attack or spell landed: 30 pts
on shield: 5 pts
on grab: 5 pts
on throw: 20 pts
on KO: 80 or 100 pts ?
on item pick-up: 5 pts ?
So, starting out, the hero would need about 4 normal hits for the first level up, but then that would increase by around 2 each time. (so getting to level 3 from lvl2 would take 5 or 6 clean hits). Other actions would give some exp too, but not as much as getting a clean hit or ko.
Everytime someone would get a normal hit, we could see either near it or near the hero's portrait how much exp and mp were gained, either with numbers or bars, or both.
It could feel like attacks in rpgs that give back some mp, as well as gaining something towards leveling up.
This is one way that the mechanics could work in smash, and there are a few ways to design it so that the character is balanced. I think my favorite is a combination of both a low enough level cap (anywhere between lvl 4 to 9 or 10), and losing a stock removing a level or 2. Resetting back to lvl 1 when losing a stock could be fine too if the character is designed with fast levelling in mind.
thanks for reading
Many people may be interested in trying Dragon Quest but don't know where to start. Though the games have a lot of similarities, each is still significantly different enough, making each special in themselves, but not all of them are necessarily as easy to get into for people new to the series. This post from TheYungLink may help some:
I'll say that these are the ones you shouldn't start with:
- Dragon Quest 1&2. The only reason you might want to start with these games is because you've heard that playing these games makes eventually playing Dragon Quest 3 way better. You heard right. However, I doubt a newcomer wants to make a 3 game commitment as their "first" foray into Dragon Quest, especially if they've already played tons of RPGs that have great stories and will be disappointed that these first couple of games merely have somewhat charming writing and tense resource management to complement the incredibly straightforward battle system.
- Dragon Quest 9. It's completely different from the rest of the series, and whether you like it or not will have no bearing on your opinion of the other games. It's good for playing after getting familiar with the other games proper, especially since it has lots of callbacks, but it's not a proper first impression at all.
- Dragon Quest 10. It's an MMO that's not even playable outside of Japan lol.
- Dragon Quest 3. It stands on its own, and is a great RPG to play even today! But all your party members are customizable by the player, and while that's fun and affects the game on repeat playthroughs, if you're looking for cool interactions between party members you're out of luck. The exploration and battle tactics aspect of this game are timeless, however, if that's what you're into.
- Dragon Quest 6. I played this one recently and had a good time. However, it isn't quite as impressive as the ones in the following section, and the story is neat but it isn't as thoroughly emotionally affecting as some people may want. It has a class system like Dragon Quest 3 and 7, however like in Dragon Quest 7 it takes a long time before you're even able to access it. Unlike Dragon Quest 3, however, all your party members are actual characters who develop lightly over the course of the story, so if that's giving you reservations about trying Dragon Quest 3 right away, perhaps this is a good compromise.
- Dragon Quest 7. The game is almost like a giant compilation of entertaining short stories, but the emphasis is on "giant". The story has a cool premise where you travel back in time on various islands to save them all from ruin in the present, each acting as a chapter on it's own, but to fully do that, you need to thoroughly explore each island you save both in the past and in the present. This particular game is loooooong, bar none the longest Dragon Quest game in the series not including side quests, because of all the running around and careful combing you do of every room and every dungeon of every island across both time periods. Lots of backtracking in this one, though it's mitigated by the absolutely enormous script, with nearly every NPC in the game having their dialogue changed after almost every event in the game, so as you talk to everyone while searching for ways to resurrect the next island, you won't be bored hearing the same thing over and over again. I'd definitely recommend this game only for players who have already beaten a Dragon Quest game and have decided they want a cozy, longform adventure that will last them a long time, but for your first Dragon Quest? Well, you should really know what kind of commitment you're making before you jump in, if you decide to make this one your first.
- Dragon Quest 4. Either the DS or the smartphone versions are greatly recommended, but this game has a unique hook most RPGs even today don't have: it has 5 chapters, the first 4 of which focus on a different set of party members as they each go through a little story that reveals more of the main plot. The 5th and final chapter introduces the main character proper who you finally get to control (you name them at the beginning of the game) as they find and recruit the party members of the first 4 chapters on their journey around the world to defeat the main villain. It's a super cool game. That said, you have to put a lot of time into the game to reach Chapter 5, so keep that in mind if you want to check it out. If you get the smartphone version, you won't get buttons like with the DS version, but you'll get a feature called "party chat," which is pressing the talk button to trigger a conversation with each of your party members reacting to the current situation. The writing is SUPER charming and funny and more than makes up for the fact that your finger is used for moving around rather than a D pad.
- Dragon Quest 5. The one I started with. I'm currently replaying it and it's still my favorite game so far. You want a Dragon Quest game with a really good and gripping story? Here you go: you play as a child following around their father, and eventually learn that your mother is missing. Stuff happens, and now you're playing as an adult, and the entire world has changed, as you continue your search. The game handles themes of growing up and becoming an adult extremely well, and it helps make the "save the world" backdrop feel extremely personal. Saving the world is secondary to finding out answers about your family and friends, which you journey around the entire world to discover. Along with human party members, the hero can eventually learn to recruit monsters into their party, giving the game a great mix of customization (monsters) and character interaction (main character with the human party members). As the cherry on top, this game has party chat just like with DQ4. This game is so tender and warm, I love it with all my heart, and I'm extremely glad it's the first one I played.
- Dragon Quest 8 and 11. I still haven't gotten around to these games, but I've heard nothing but good things about both of them. From what I know, Dragon Quest 11 is somehow even better than 8, so if anything 11 is the best modern game to try out as your first, and maybe check out 8 afterward since they're both gorgeous third person RPGs instead of the more classic top down ones like the earlier ones.
Dragon Quest 3 is a good game too
More info about the games may come in the future.