The Hawk Samurai, Takamaru Ventures For Smash Switch (Operation #TakamaruForSamSho. See Page 26 for Details)

[bksbestbwoy]

Thinking about things also reminded me, how do people feel about Takamaru's visual design overall? Personally, I really really like it. It's simple and would look very good with playable character tier animations. I saw it a few times that a lot of people felt as though he was "too simple" almost to the point of being boring in the detractor messages during RTC and I just kinda find it weird that this is such a big hangup. We get a lot of exaggerated or over designed (not like badly so but) characters already that I feel Takamaru's simple design stands out further.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Thinking about things also reminded me, how do people feel about Takamaru's visual design overall? Personally, I really really like it. It's simple and would look very good with playable character tier animations. I saw it a few times that a lot of people felt as though he was "too simple" almost to the point of being boring in the detractor messages during RTC and I just kinda find it weird that this is such a big hangup. We get a lot of exaggerated or over designed (not like badly so but) characters already that I feel Takamaru's simple design stands out further.

Well what can someone expect for a character that haven't had a new game in YEARS? And the few redesigns he had stuck with most of the original look (minus the strange decision of giving him a ninjato to in the Assist Trophy than a katana).

Pit's design in the first Kid Icarus was a cartoony Greek Cupid, then Brawl spiced it up in a way that he fits. I feel Takamaru's design is fine enough really, even the Assist Trophy gives him a good idea that he fit enough with the same design.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

I feel Takamaru's design is fine the way it is. It's works the best for what it is, an Edo Era samurai apprentice.


And if we were to be quite frank, all retro Nintendo character's design are plain simple.

Balloon Fighter wouldn't look too out of place in a Mario game, being this standard cartoony middle aged man in overalls. The only thing making him stand out is balloons.

Ayumi Tachibana looks like your average Japanese high school girl.

Goku looks like any other accurate depiction of Sun Wukong from Journey to the West.

Hikari looks like the typical miko (shrine maiden) while Donbe is the wild child archetype.

Sheriff is just like any other cowboy in fiction, gruff and stuff.

Bubbles looks like a Castle Lololo character despite the concept of a bubblefish being unique.

Mach Rider is your average futuristic racer, who wouldn't look out of place in an F-Zero game.

Tamagon is basically a Bubble Bobble dragon, but with wings where his arms should be.

Urban Champion is just an adult man who happens to be cartoony.

And need I need to say more about the Pro Wrestling characters?

Takamaru's design can be "too simple" when these other classic Nintendo characters are just as simple.

 

[bksbestbwoy]

Yeah exactly. Though I was sad to see Takamaru with canon blue hair now (I really prefered the black hair from the official art for the game) and the loss of the sky blue inner jacket, I think it's a really strong design, especially in his standard trophy pose:

vs.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Yeah exactly. Though I was sad to see Takamaru with canon blue hair now (I really prefered the black hair from the official art for the game) and the loss of the sky blue inner jacket, I think it's a really strong design, especially in his standard trophy pose:

You know, I kind of missed the blue undershirt too since it clashes with his colors in a good way.

As for the blue hair, I can live with it. Even Nintendo had been sticking with the "his hair is blue" headcanon since Nintendo Land.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

You know, I kind of missed the blue undershirt too since it clashes with his colors in a good way.

As for the blue hair, I can live with it. Even Nintendo had been sticking with the "his hair is blue" headcanon since Nintendo Land.

I think Takamaru's hair being blue was just a way for him to stand out from the black ninjas in the game. And so he won't seem invisible when facing Murasame's true form, which takes place in a mostly black pocket dimension.

That could explain the artwork having black hair and most promotional material having blue hair sometimes.

 

[ThatShadowLink]

I like Takamaru’s classic and Sm4sh designs but as I said in RTC I’m all for his Samurai Warriors design. The colors were a bit subdued, and that gold trim is absolutely dope man.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

I like Takamaru’s classic and Sm4sh designs but as I said in RTC I’m all for his Samurai Warriors design. The colors were a bit subdued, and that gold trim is absolutely dope man.

I like that design too.

A color swap that references it would be nice.

 

[Deleted member]

I like the Sm4sh one, myself.
The Samurai Warriors is also good but it does't feel as fitting in Smash as his Sm4sh design.

 

[ThatShadowLink]

Yomi's Biggest Fan I just realized I’m not on the supporters list.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

I like the Sm4sh one, myself.
The Samurai Warriors is also good but it does't feel as fitting in Smash as his Sm4sh design.

Likely because of the pseudo-realism of it.

He would fit in next to Captain Falcon, but not so much to Link.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

I like the Sm4sh one, myself.
The Samurai Warriors is also good but it does't feel as fitting in Smash as his Sm4sh design.

That's mostly because Koei normally goes will a semi-realistic design for their characters like Soul Caliber and Tekken.

It's stylized while still having some realism to it. Though I would be fine with any Takamaru design really.

Yomi's Biggest Fan I just realized I’m not on the supporters list.

Ouch, I will fix that right away.

 

[Organization XIII]

While you're fixing the supporters list you mind throwing me on there?

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

While you're fixing the supporters list you mind throwing me on there?

Sure, I can do that for you too.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Now let's take a trip down memory lane.

Anyone remembered the time when Zebei made a Character Support Thread group and how Takmarau was included as the one of the few Assist Trophies in the banner? Good times.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Now let's take a trip down memory lane.

Anyone remembered the time when Zebei made a Character Support Thread group and how Takmarau was included as the one of the few Assist Trophies in the banner? Good times.

I can't believe that people still remember that old group.

Meanwhile, guess which one of these characters were officially confirmed? The Inkling.

I have a good feeling that Takamaru and a few other characters features here could be luckier this time.

 

[DuwangAnon]

Personally, I wouldn't mind if Takamaru's design was updated a bit. It is good enough as-is, though.
How d'y'all think he'd play? Classic samurai? More dodge-y to reflect his game? A combination?

 

[CannonStreak]

Well, you can count me in as a supporter. I think it would be cool for Takamaru to join Smash as a playable character this time. I can see him being a great character, too, and I would definitely give him a chance if he were in.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Personally, I wouldn't mind if Takamaru's design was updated a bit. It is good enough as-is, though.
How d'y'all think he'd play? Classic samurai? More dodge-y to reflect his game? A combination?

I little bit of both would be necessary.

He can still use the traditional elements of a iajustu practitioner while at least being as defensive and ranged as he was in his home game.

I'd say giving him a more grounded style would be a way to balance him, as he is at his best on the ground than in the air. That's what he would have his projectiles for.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Well, you can count me in as a supporter. I think it would be cool for Takamaru to join Smash as a playable character this time. I can see him being a great character, too, and I would definitely give him a chance if he were in.

Glad to have more people like you on board. He is one of those characters you could tell would be fun to play as just by looking at the design. Or at least getting the feel of his hard as balls game on the 3DS. lol

Welcome to the clan.

Personally, I wouldn't mind if Takamaru's design was updated a bit. It is good enough as-is, though.
How d'y'all think he'd play? Classic samurai? More dodge-y to reflect his game? A combination?

If by classic samurai as in him being a more defensive character who's all about quick attacks when necessary, that would be alright. Though he would at least need some speed in other areas to be able to keep up with a faster character like Greninja. And like characters like Mega Man, he would have some good range game with the various ways he can throw his weaponry in battle. That way he can properly keep a dangerous foe away from him when he's backed in a corner.

Aussie brought up a good point about him not being all that great in the air. But we aren't talking Little Mac levels of bad, moreso that his aerials would be less effective than his deadly ground attacks. And of course, said projectiles would be proper means of trying to keep aerial foes away from him. There can also be some strategy with the Invisibility Cloak to ambush foes or simply evade them.

 

[bksbestbwoy]

Personally, I wouldn't mind if Takamaru's design was updated a bit. It is good enough as-is, though.
How d'y'all think he'd play? Classic samurai? More dodge-y to reflect his game? A combination?

I kinda made a move set eons ago back when this was the support thread for his inclusion in Smash 4. I basically see him as a mixed range attacker where his most lethal moves (A moves/smashes/tilts) are based around close range sword draw attacks (similar to his context/spacing sensitive katana attacks being mostly OHKOs in The Mysterious Murasame Castle) and his specials are all based on his supporting projectiles (throwing knives, windmill blades, fireballs) with the Shogi piece power ups as a secondary B press or hold on each to alter their throwing pattern. Up Special is a cartoony dash along the ground or upward through the air as a circle shadow to emulate how he works when invisible.

I might try my hand at a 2.0 version of this move set when I get some free time to kill. I want to do some for a few people (Takamaru and Inklings mostly), but I do wish I could animate them.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

I kinda made a move set eons ago back when this was the support thread for his inclusion in Smash 4. I basically see him as a mixed range attacker where his most lethal moves (A moves/smashes/tilts) are based around close range sword draw attacks (similar to his context/spacing sensitive katana attacks being mostly OHKOs in The Mysterious Murasame Castle) and his specials are all based on his supporting projectiles (throwing knives, windmill blades, fireballs) with the Shogi piece power ups as a secondary B press or hold on each to alter their throwing pattern. Up Special is a cartoony dash along the ground or upward through the air as a circle shadow to emulate how he works when invisible.

I might try my hand at a 2.0 version of this move set when I get some free time to kill. I want to do some for a few people (Takamaru and Inklings mostly), but I do wish I could animate them.

You do animation?

Anyways, that's just about right for a good playstyle for Takamaru. Good luck with the moveset.

 

[bksbestbwoy]

You do animation?

Anyways, that's just about right for a good playstyle for Takamaru. Good luck with the moveset.

I wish. lol

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

I kinda made a move set eons ago back when this was the support thread for his inclusion in Smash 4. I basically see him as a mixed range attacker where his most lethal moves (A moves/smashes/tilts) are based around close range sword draw attacks (similar to his context/spacing sensitive katana attacks being mostly OHKOs in The Mysterious Murasame Castle) and his specials are all based on his supporting projectiles (throwing knives, windmill blades, fireballs) with the Shogi piece power ups as a secondary B press or hold on each to alter their throwing pattern. Up Special is a cartoony dash along the ground or upward through the air as a circle shadow to emulate how he works when invisible.

I might try my hand at a 2.0 version of this move set when I get some free time to kill. I want to do some for a few people (Takamaru and Inklings mostly), but I do wish I could animate them.

Good luck with the new moveset. And hit me up if you want me to replace the old one with the new.

And by the way, your way of Takamaru's playstyle, sounds just perfect for him. Especially the way you wanted to incorporate the Shogi pieces.

 

[Organization XIII]

It's been a minute since I played The Mysterious Murasame Castle but didn't Takamaru always have his sword drawn? Why does everyone keep saying he'll use iajutsu, did he use that style in Samurai Warriors 3?

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

It's been a minute since I played The Mysterious Murasame Castle but didn't Takamaru always have his sword drawn? Why does everyone keep saying he'll use iajutsu, did he use that style in Samurai Warriors 3?

Takamaru has his sword sheathed the whole time. He only pulls it out when he attacks an enemy upclose or block incoming shiruken.

Sure it's not that noticeable in sprite form, but it's there.

As for Samurai Warriors 3, well he takes it out where there are enemies visible in front of him, which is the whole time. That's just how the Warriors game works.

 

[Mr.J]

To be honest, I do kinda feel upset of seeing Takamaru placed as nothing but an assist trophy, to me. What an assist trophy is... It's something that I think is meant for a character that has his/her franchise already represented with a character. Take for example Punch-Out, Little Mac happens to be a playable character, so having a boxer from his game wouldn't hurt his franchise. As it can branch out to his franchise further and showcase a character that perhaps does not fit the requirements to be a playable character.

Now with Takamaru, I find it difficult to see him as an assist trophy, as he's the only character from his franchise. And keeping him as an assist trophy would only make his game lesser known, compared to the playable characters. Personally I would love for him to be playable instead, as having him in Super Smash Bros could lead to further possibilities with the retro cast.
That is how I see it.

And not to mention, it can even lead to more paths to open for Takamaru and his franchise. If you look at Pit and Kid Icarus for example. As you know, Pit wasn't very well known by the time he was announced in Brawl, but in due time. When Sakurai decided to make a game for Pit, more people got to know him and his background a lot more. Which is a good thing, and something I want to see happend to more retro characters. Yes that includes Takamaru as well.

Before I forget, I personally love seeing more retro characters represented in the playable cast, rather than assist trophy, while it is nice to see some of them as assist trophies. I do not think it is the right fit for them to be there. But that's just my opinion and how I feel of the situation.
Either way, I do fully support this thread, and I hope more things can come out of it!

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

To be honest, I do kinda feel upset of seeing Takamaru placed as nothing but an assist trophy, to me. What an assist trophy is... It's something that I think is meant for a character that has his/her franchise already represented with a character. Take for example Punch-Out, Little Mac happens to be a playable character, so having a boxer from his game wouldn't hurt his franchise. As it can branch out to his franchise further and showcase a character that perhaps does not fit the requirements to be a playable character.

Now with Takamaru, I find it difficult to see him as an assist trophy, as he's the only character from his franchise. And keeping him as an assist trophy would only make his game lesser known, compared to the playable characters. Personally I would love for him to be playable instead, as having him in Super Smash Bros could lead to further possibilities with the retro cast.
That is how I see it.

And not to mention, it can even lead to more paths to open for Takamaru and his franchise. If you look at Pit and Kid Icarus for example. As you know, Pit wasn't very well known by the time he was announced in Brawl, but in due time. When Sakurai decided to make a game for Pit, more people got to know him and his background a lot more. Which is a good thing, and something I want to see happend to more retro characters. Yes that includes Takamaru as well.

Before I forget, I personally love seeing more retro characters represented in the playable cast, rather than assist trophy, while it is nice to see some of them as assist trophies. I do not think it is the right fit for them to be there. But that's just my opinion and how I feel of the situation.
Either way, I do fully support this thread, and I hope more things can come out of it!

Sometimes, Sakurai has his reasons for making a certain character an Assist Trophy. Whether it be feeling that character isn't well known enough to be playable or not fully feasible enough to work. In his case, I can see why he made Takamaru an Assist Trophy since someone like him wouldn't be met with warm reception like Lucas or the Fire Emblem duo in the past. So he played things safe.

Though now I feel is the time for him to be included now that a decent amount of Westerners know who he is. Whether it's because of Smash itself, Murasame Castle's localization, or the few cameos he had in the last decade (most notably Samurai Warriors 3 and Nintendo Land). Like you, I would be all for many classic Nintendo characters getting a time to shine in the modern public. Smash alone helps with that if we look at characters like Pit and the sadly cut Ice Climbers (who are likely to return). Smash is not just a celebration of gaming, but Nintendo's history as a whole.

And thanks for your support. You are now the newest member of the clan.

 

[EmceeEspio]

I said I wasn't comin' back to Smashboards and definitely wasn't gonna come back to speculation since we still don't know anything from the teaser, but.... I lied. Here I am, back in the Takamaru thread.

Yes, I'm still alive.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

I said I wasn't comin' back to Smashboards and definitely wasn't gonna come back to speculation since we still don't know anything from the teaser, but.... I lied. Here I am, back in the Takamaru thread.

Yes, I'm still alive.

Welcome back fellow ronin, long time no see.

That used to be me as well. lol

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

I said I wasn't comin' back to Smashboards and definitely wasn't gonna come back to speculation since we still don't know anything from the teaser, but.... I lied. Here I am, back in the Takamaru thread.

Yes, I'm still alive.

Nice to see you again Emcee.

I doubt I have to add you again since you are already on the list. Once a ronin, always a ronin. Here's to hoping our boy gets better justice.

 

[bksbestbwoy]

It's been a minute since I played The Mysterious Murasame Castle but didn't Takamaru always have his sword drawn? Why does everyone keep saying he'll use iajutsu, did he use that style in Samurai Warriors 3?

Yeah, as mentioned before, Takamaru spends most of the time in game with the sword sheathed opting for it when enemies got too close. Only time you could even freely spam swings was when you used the invisibility scroll.

Stuff like this is why the Assist Trophy feels like it could have been done better. You regularly see him doing things like the stance in the standard trophy too.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Yeah, as mentioned before, Takamaru spends most of the time in game with the sword sheathed opting for it when enemies got too close. Only time you could even freely spam swings was when you used the invisibility scroll.

Stuff like this is why the Assist Trophy feels like it could have been done better. You regularly see him doing things like the stance in the standard trophy too.

Yeah, Sakurai probably had his blade out all the time in the Assist Trophy just as a nod his artwork or he was too lazy to animate fluid sheathing and unseating animations for his attacks.

Then agin, I doubt any Assist Trophy had a lot of detail or work put into them compared to the playable characters.

 

[RhymesWithEmpty]

On the topic of Takamaru's design, I've always liked the idea of him getting an update a-la Pit, although in his case his proportions would go from realistic to slightly more cartoony. Nothing too crazy, but I feel like it would make him a but more interesting to people who might otherwise complain about another "blue haired swordsman." Just something to set him apart from the Fire Emblem cast. Something like one of these:

https://www.deviantart.com/art/Hero-of-Murasame-Castle-370551812
https://www.deviantart.com/art/Takamaru-Returns-179505163

Maybe give his outfit a few small tweaks/updates, but mostly keep it simple and focus on making him an expressive character.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

On the topic of Takamaru's design, I've always liked the idea of him getting an update a-la Pit, although in his case his proportions would go from realistic to slightly more cartoony. Nothing too crazy, but I feel like it would make him a but more interesting to people who might otherwise complain about another "blue haired swordsman." Just something to set him apart from the Fire Emblem cast. Something like one of these:

https://www.deviantart.com/art/Hero-of-Murasame-Castle-370551812
https://www.deviantart.com/art/Takamaru-Returns-179505163

Maybe give his outfit a few small tweaks/updates, but mostly keep it simple and focus on making him an expressive character.

Jmatchhead is a nice DeviantArtist and his updated Takamaru looks great. Cartoony, but still not too stylized. The sprite animations he made are just as good.

Though like you said. A few tweaks/updates and she should be fine while still being an expressive character.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

On the topic of Takamaru's design, I've always liked the idea of him getting an update a-la Pit, although in his case his proportions would go from realistic to slightly more cartoony. Nothing too crazy, but I feel like it would make him a but more interesting to people who might otherwise complain about another "blue haired swordsman." Just something to set him apart from the Fire Emblem cast. Something like one of these:

https://www.deviantart.com/art/Hero-of-Murasame-Castle-370551812
https://www.deviantart.com/art/Takamaru-Returns-179505163

Maybe give his outfit a few small tweaks/updates, but mostly keep it simple and focus on making him an expressive character.

I used to have that as my avatar years ago. Brings back memories.

Although your idea wouldn't be as bad. Not that I am against a realistic or anime-esque Takamaru, I would be fine with any direction Sakurai goes with the character. Like a semi-super deformed design would help make him stand out more from Link and the Fire Emblem cast.

 

[ThatShadowLink]

I'm biased towards realistic anime aesthetics for what I hope should be obvious reasons.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

You, I've thought of something.

What if we have gotten Lana or a Warriors character AND Takamaru as newcomers?

That would be a funny reunion in Smash knowing that he used to be in Samurai Warriors 3.

 

[RhymesWithEmpty]

Jmatchhead is a nice DeviantArtist and his updated Takamaru looks great. Cartoony, but still not too stylized. The sprite animations he made are just as good.

Though like you said. A few tweaks/updates and she should be fine while still being an expressive character.

Yeah, I really like his iteration of Takamaru. It is maybe sliiightly more cartoony than what I'd envisioned, but it's about the closest thing I've seen so far. I just imagine him as a sort of dorky samurai, so a more cartoony face could really help get some fun expressions across and add a lot personality to him.

I used to have that as my avatar years ago. Brings back memories.

Although your idea wouldn't be as bad. Not that I am against a realistic or anime-esque Takamaru, I would be fine with any direction Sakurai goes with the character. Like a semi-super deformed design would help make him stand out more from Link and the Fire Emblem cast.

Haha, I did remember somebody using that as their avatar! But yes, I think a semi-super deformed design would be the perfect thing to help him stand out, at least visually.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

So fellow ronins, I've been thinking long and hard about things and I would like to say it's time for us to make our very own Takamaru Discord Server.

Not because it would be another way for us to hang out. But it's to aggressively push the idea of Takamaru as a fighter or discuss many ways we would like to see our own revival for the Mysterious Murasame Castle. There will be a general Smash speculation channel and some stuff for fanart. Off topic is needed to since we don't want anyone to feel completely alienated.

If the Kutthroats and Bomberman fans can have a Discord server, so can we.

How many of you would be up for it happened this week?