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The Great Grand Father of Video Gaming! - Mr. Game & Watch for Smash Bros. Switch

Rakurai

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
759
Another thing about the bomb that makes it not quite as useful I initially thought is that it does not explode on contact with the opponent. It falls a set distance then blows up after it hits the limit or if it touches the ground, meaning it needs to be spaced/timed properly to hit airborne targets.

It also has basically no priority and gets destroyed if it collides with seemingly any other manner of hitbox. Even the windbox from things like Dedede's inhale or K.Rool's musket will make it disappear.
 

X3I

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 26, 2014
Messages
143
The clean hit is on 1st frames + super close range... Where other moves are better anyway
You're caring too much about something that don't really matter in my opinion
 
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WarioJim

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 2, 2014
Messages
134
The clean hit is on 1st frames + super close range... Where other moves are better anyway
You're caring too much about something that don't really matter in my opinion
Maybe you're right, but I loved the old F-Air and found it really useful, so I can't help compare what I've seen against what I've used for years now.
 

phantoon

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 28, 2015
Messages
32
any info on how G&W's down tilt works? things known for certain are the loss of the windbox and nerfed range but what about any knockback/damage changes? also, G&W's animation during the move (like he protects himself with the manhole) makes me think that there might be super armor or something similar, but this is mostly wishful thinking.
 

Chibi-Chan

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
402
Location
Mexico D.F.
any info on how G&W's down tilt works? things known for certain are the loss of the windbox and nerfed range but what about any knockback/damage changes? also, G&W's animation during the move (like he protects himself with the manhole) makes me think that there might be super armor or something similar, but this is mostly wishful thinking.
Down tilt is a completely new move. It sends at a very horizontal angle and it's extremely powerful, killing at like 90% near the ledge with no rage. Deals 10.8% damage on 1v1. Probably his best kill move on neutral now after what happened to Down smash and Dthrow.
 
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AegonTheConqueror

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 7, 2015
Messages
17
I like the new Fair tbh. Just another creative tool. To know the timing of that would require a deep knowledge of the character.

Does the first flag of uptilt start in front of him or behind?
 

Rakurai

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
759
Geez. All of G&W's specials seem to have gotten significantly buffed now.

Neutral B actually lets you control the angle the food flies at by holding towards/away from G&W while flipping food (Meaning those low angles that are great for edgeguards can be achieved reliably now).

Down B now grants i-frames on absorb that last long enough that G&W can go straight into shield out of them, making it extremely safe on top of the whole reflector thing. It also visibly covers your victim in oil and has the "dramatic KO" effect as a bonus.

Grounded up B seems to have a very powerful fixed knockback that launches foes slightly above where G&W ends up so he can get easy follow-ups off it at any percent. The aerial version still launches to the side for gimping purposes,

Side B drops more food with 7...but that's the only buff I've noticed (Unless the dramatic effects on the 9 count).
 
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Rakurai

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
759
The bucket doesn't seem to have a damage mulitplier on its reflector because Villager's Lloyd Rocket was doing 8% and Links fully charged neutral B 14%, which are the standard values to my knowledge.
 
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phantoon

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 28, 2015
Messages
32
The bucket doesn't seem to have a damage mulitplier on its reflector because Villager's Lloyd Rocket was doing 8% and Links fully charged neutral B 14%, which are the standard values to my knowledge.
it's been confirmed that bucket has a 1x multiplier for physical projectiles. even with a 1x multiplier, it's still amazing not to be harassed to no end by them
 

Phobos_Anomaly

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 10, 2018
Messages
50
Just an observation, but does anyone else find it odd that G&W was featured on the Japanese Smash Blog page as a featured fighter and not the US blog page?

Again, just a strange observation. Seems he was omitted from the US blog.
 

Rakurai

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
759
The bombs took a bit of getting used to, but fastfalling them so they cover your landing seems to be the best thing you can do with them.

The explosions actually do a really good job of obscuring what he's doing, so it makes it even more annoying of an option against human players.

The improved Chef is just as useful as I was hoping, too. There really isn't much a lot of characters can do to defend themselves from a low angled barrage of bacon off-stage, and it's also hilariously oppressive on-stage to characters with low air mobility like Dedede.
 
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KirbyWorshipper2465

Smash Legend
Joined
Oct 29, 2007
Messages
19,013
Location
The Western side of Pop Star.
Just an observation, but does anyone else find it odd that G&W was featured on the Japanese Smash Blog page as a featured fighter and not the US blog page?

Again, just a strange observation. Seems he was omitted from the US blog.
You're not the only one who noticed.

However, he eventually was posted on the US blog this Friday. The description only talks about his Judge special and Octopus. And the thumbnail isn't even displayed right. No Memories post, the Fire controversy and now this. He just can't catch a break.

At least his Oil Panic's been buffed.
 
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Beltbuckle

Smash Rookie
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May 19, 2014
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I like the new Fair tbh. Just another creative tool. To know the timing of that would require a deep knowledge of the character.

Does the first flag of uptilt start in front of him or behind?
I know the game is out now and You've probably already seen for yourself, but the first flag always comes out the way GW is facing.
 

Semako

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 8, 2018
Messages
32
Location
Vienna
I still need to get used to his new fair, but I like it. What I don't like is his new upair, it has no windbox, doesn't kill (unless you hit like with the edge of the puff's final hit or so, once I got a kill against a 120% opponent, where the puff launched him diagonally upwards...) and is noticeably laggier. Stuff like landing uair (1st puff) to grab/upsmash doesn't work anymore. Also I miss the good old times when I could upsmash any aerial approach..
 
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Rakurai

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
759
Up smash is definitely nerfed as far as when the armor frames kick in.

All it really does now is prevent the move from trading hits and requires punishes to be timed more precisely now that the armor lasts through the end frames instead of the start-up.

On the other hand, I really love the bury on down smash because it lets you punish people really hard if they mess up, since now they get a down smash bury + charged forward/up smash to the face instead of just one or the other.
 
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Bendario

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
172
It feels like is pretty worthless now. Aside from oil panic's admittedly great buff and the already mediocre chef getting a minor biff, everything else is either notably worse or about the same, in a game where EVERYONE else got far better. And losing 2 of his air kill moves entirely for vastly inferior moves makes him unsalvageable. The poor guy is tragically bad now.
 

Rakurai

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
759
It feels like is pretty worthless now. Aside from oil panic's admittedly great buff and the already mediocre chef getting a minor biff, everything else is either notably worse or about the same, in a game where EVERYONE else got far better. And losing 2 of his air kill moves entirely for vastly inferior moves makes him unsalvageable. The poor guy is tragically bad now.
I'm not sure what's "notably worse" other then up smash.

Both uair and fair are more side grades then nerfs as they serve very different purposes from the original moves and give him more options in neutral now. Lacking aerial kill options outside dair (Which isn't that powerful) and bair/up B gimps does kind of hurt, but he builds damage more easily now and his tilts are more then strong enough to KO people.

If you think he's that terrible, you'd probably trying to use him with a Smash 4 mindset when you should be exploiting the new options available to him from his changed moves and the changes in Ultimate's engine. Harass the heck out of people who are trying to land with uair and force them to respect your space with retreating fast-falled fair bombs. Use the new dash mechanics to land your tilts more easily and force them into a bad spot with the low launch angles on ftilt/dtilt (Assuming they don't just KO them outright), then harass with Chef or go for a gimp using up B or bair.
 
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Mr.989

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 13, 2016
Messages
24
Location
Austin, TX
Has anyone else noticed that his bacon is a reflector? I haven't checked it out too much yet but when I was fighting King Dee Dee to unlock him he was shooting alot of those spike ball things at me and a few times while I was shooting bacon they connected and they shot back towards him. Has anyone else noticed anything similar?
 

Semako

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 8, 2018
Messages
32
Location
Vienna
That is only because the gordo gets thrown back to Big D whenever it takes around 2 or 3% of damage. Other projectiles don't have this property. The Matchup vs Big D is probably one of the easiest for G&W, as he just needs to spam Neutral B all day, until he can kill with a chair, dtilt or smash.
 

Rakurai

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
759
A lot of people seem to think G &W's new fair is garbage just because of how easily the bombs get stuffed by other attacks, but I don't really agree.

They feel pretty effective as a defensive option by doing retreating fast-falled fairs that place the explosions between you and your opponent, but they also work really well against shields, particularly because they can't be punished by parries due to being projectiles. If you short-hop them at close range and the initial weak hit gets parried, they'll just get blown up if they try to challenge it as the explosion will be active during the frames they'd normally be able to punish within, and if they keep shielding, they leave themselves open to being grabbed. Even if they parry the explosion, they won't be able to get anything out of it due to you not being stuck in hitlag.

I think the key thing is not drop bombs in situations where they can actually get stuffed by an attack in the first place and leave you open. Dropping them lower to the ground helps with that.
 
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King9999

Smash Journeyman
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240
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Ontario, Canada
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Add me to the list of people not feeling the new f-air. But I like the new u-air even less.
 

Rakurai

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
759
It does kind of suck to have lost uair as a kill move, but being able to easily tack on percent by spamming at uair at characters with bad air mobility or by reading their movement is a boon when G&W can just use his tilts to get KOs instead of needing to commit to something heavy.

It also works as an up/down throw follow-up at practically any percent and you can do stuff like down throw > double uair > up B at mid percents for some fairly easy damage.

Overall, I don't feel like losing his uair kill confirm is as bad as some think due to his easier damage building and powerful tilts that can easily be used to punish. When you do get a chance at a hard punish, you can kill even sooner then in Smash 4 due to the bury on down smash being strong enough to reliably connect semi-charged smashes at kill percents (Even the level 9 AI can't mash out fast enough to avoid it).
 
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NouveauRétro

Smash Journeyman
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May 10, 2015
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319
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Long Island, currently upstate
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Royal_Bros.
New uair feels clunky and not great at first but eventually, you'll have that moment where like Cloud or Link or Bowser or someone else who would normally cover themselves landing with a hitbox and you just uair and their attack clanks once and then immediately hits them and you keep pestering them with up air. Feels really good to shoot them up to juggle once you're used to the increased startup and endlag.
 

Sixell

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 4, 2015
Messages
47
Can we talk about how good down smash is though? With proper spacing (the edge of the hammer), you can bury the opponent and set up for a usmash or fsmash kill confirm or at least one attempt at judge. If anything, his ground game has improved significantly. Generally, his up B, Chef, and grounded down smash combos are great! I do miss the old Fair, but it's alright for baiting grounded approaches.
 

Rakurai

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
759
Down smash seems like it's almost always going to be a better option then fsmash against unburied opponents considering that it has more reach and the sourspot leaves them in a more favorable position prior to KO percents.
 
Joined
Jul 6, 2012
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Location
Barnegat, New Jersey
A lot of people seem to think G &W's new fair is garbage just because of how easily the bombs get stuffed by other attacks, but I don't really agree.

They feel pretty effective as a defensive option by doing retreating fast-falled fairs that place the explosions between you and your opponent, but they also work really well against shields, particularly because they can't be punished by parries due to being projectiles. If you short-hop them at close range and the initial weak hit gets parried, they'll just get blown up if they try to challenge it as the explosion will be active during the frames they'd normally be able to punish within, and if they keep shielding, they leave themselves open to being grabbed. Even if they parry the explosion, they won't be able to get anything out of it due to you not being stuck in hitlag.

I think the key thing is not drop bombs in situations where they can actually get stuffed by an attack in the first place and leave you open. Dropping them lower to the ground helps with that.
I'm with you, I actually like this fair a decent amount. Fast fall Fairs are MINT.
 

Hartless

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 18, 2018
Messages
2
I'm with you, I actually like this fair a decent amount. Fast fall Fairs are MINT.
I know I'm new to the site, but in the vid, both hits of fair at max. 22% combos into judge so I'm alright with it tbh!
 

Neb

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 19, 2008
Messages
1,810
Location
Melbourne, FL
R Rakurai

Wanna know your thoughts on G&W's closeup game. Seems to be his biggest problem in my experience when character's have the data to box him out up close. On the ground he can only run away with upb or jump and retreat with fair/bair. Once they get below him, if they have the frames, G&W struggles getting down without time to setup fair or dair - good players will adapt to those options rather quickly. It translates into him getting off the ledge too. He just get's knocked around against character's who have rush and pressure games, supported by the new engine. Because of his frames, many of G&W's options force him to over-commit when he just wants to zone or protect himself.

Personally think he will benefit from a hit and run approach; play more surgical with his hitboxes.
 
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Rakurai

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
759
I don't think G&W is really suited to going toe-to-toe with other fighters, either. Jab and up B are honestly his only close-range options that can reliably punish most shielded moves, and I tend to go for the latter due to it being both safer and more rewarding.

I spend lots of time just spacing with the turtle and bombs or maybe flipping some bacon if I see an opening. I need to get into a habit of using ftilt and dtilt to punish instead of dash attack, though.

On a related note, I've realized that the bombs having an attackable hitbox can actually be a good thing as it can potentially create openings if they get hit by moves that have really high hit lag such as tippered Marth aerials.
 
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Neb

Smash Lord
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Apr 19, 2008
Messages
1,810
Location
Melbourne, FL
Yea. It's sad because if he wants to start something he has to go out on a limb, and since he's light and doesn't have easy kill setups - it becomes a losing game. Us figuring out the full extent of his upb follow-ups are gonna subvert that to an extent; otherwise G&W's mobility, retreating hitboxes, bucket absorption/reflector, fair, and occasionally chef, make for quite the wall. Everyone I have played has complained about how annoying G&W is to approach now. He could stall out games if there are platforms.

With this new fair, though, I think G&W actually has great shield pressure options that compliment the patient approach. Earlier this week I broke shields on several occasions simply poking with bair or nair (especially through platforms) and then shortly after approaching with FF'd fair into a smash. They have to shield. Great mix-up in those scenarios after 40% is Judgement/Bucket because the risk/reward is huge. You either poke through the shield, break the shield and get a free fully charged dsmash > fully charged fsmash, or you kill them. I see an evasive neutral that goes aggro on low shields being the future.

This ain't for every match-up, but the current threats ie. Pikachu/Pichu, Chrom, Marth/Lucina, Fox/Wolf, Yoshi, etc. So far at least.
 
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meleebrawler

Smash Hero
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Sep 8, 2014
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Does his new bomb remind anyone of Samus's? At least the one in Brawl and 4? They seem to have very similar timers and uses anyway...

I can see them being useful for ledge traps if you have the time, covering a lot of options with a hitbox in one location and moving G&W in another.
 
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NouveauRétro

Smash Journeyman
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May 10, 2015
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319
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Long Island, currently upstate
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Royal_Bros.
G&W's never been a rushdown character since like Melee, he's still bait and punish using big disjoints with better frame data than your average swordsman. his punish game's a lot different but his neutral is largely the same but better with new options.
R Rakurai

Wanna know your thoughts on G&W's closeup game. Seems to be his biggest problem in my experience when character's have the data to box him out up close. On the ground he can only run away with upb or jump and retreat with fair/bair. Once they get below him, if they have the frames, G&W struggles getting down without time to setup fair or dair - good players will adapt to those options rather quickly. It translates into him getting off the ledge too. He just get's knocked around against character's who have rush and pressure games, supported by the new engine. Because of his frames, many of G&W's options force him to over-commit when he just wants to zone or protect himself.

Personally think he will benefit from a hit and run approach; play more surgical with his hitboxes.
 

Neb

Smash Lord
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G&W's never been a rushdown character since like Melee, he's still bait and punish using big disjoints with better frame data than your average swordsman. his punish game's a lot different but his neutral is largely the same but better with new options.
I said he is struggling against rushdown character's, not that he is one. And G&W's frame data is nowhere near as a good as a swordsman. As far as everything else you said, we are in agreement.
 

Tw0Dimensi0nal

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 28, 2018
Messages
10
Been pretty quiet on this side of the boards! I'm a longtime lurker and G&W main. Got my G&W into Elite and tend to hover around the elite threshold.

I too am sad about the decrease in invincibility frames in Usmash, but what we gained in a Dsmash that grounds into an Fsmash kill confirm on almost the entire cast around 70% has been fantastic. Seriously, a good read with bacon and a couple of aerial mix-ups and that's it, they're KO'd as soon as they get too close. We may be capable of dying pretty quickly, but we can kill even faster, since we have a confirm at 70%, while we can still survive a lot of stuff at that percent.

The best part about it is it's way more fun to play as him this way than just brainlessly spamming Usmash when in desperate situations like in Sm4sh. Because I don't need to get my opponent up to a super high percent, I feel like I can bring games back even when I'm down a stock or two.
 
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Rakurai

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
759
I really love the fact that G&W's up B out of shield now launches people upward while he's grounded because it meshes perfectly with his new projectile uair and puts people in a really uncomfortable position where they're often forced to air dodge if they don't want to get juggled by uair spam (Which in turn can leave them open to even worse punishment if you read it).

it was always easy to pull off, but now you get rewarded for it instead of just getting people off him.
 
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Rakurai

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
759
It depends on how good your opponent is at mashing, but up until around 60% or so if you connect a second down smash on someone while they're buried, it won't knock them out of it and when it ends, they'll receive a very light vertical knockback that makes it really easy to get aerial follow-ups or possibly even an up smash if the opponent is large or a fast faller.

A second smash becomes guaranteed against a level 9 AI starting from 60%, so you can likely get away with it sooner on a human player due to them needing time to process that they've been buried coupled with their mashing generally not being nearly as good.

Alternatively, stepping forward and flipping neutral B at point blank does 15% per hit and won't end the bury prematurely, either, though the launch angle afterward won't be very favorable for follow-ups.
 
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Wonks

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 12, 2012
Messages
374
Does anyone have any techniques on the best way to land "Judge"? Most times when I connect it's pure luck. Or is this just a byproduct of G&W's poor close-up game?
 
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