Data The Ganon Chaingrabbing Guide

[Magus420]

Nah, there is no slow turn grab. It's just as fast as a fast turn to grab since it lets you grab behind immediately even while tilting to do the turn. You can tilt back frame 1 -> standing grab frame 2 to be grabbing on 8 (JC grab grabs on 10 with turn + dash + jump + 7).

 

[Bl@ckChris]

ok then.

my problems with standing/turning grabs must be the lightshield rather than the un-turn problem. i haven't played with the cg in a little while, so i forgot what my issues really were...i just knew that there were problems at times that caused me to drop the cg other than just a missed grab.

i definitely appreciate the quick responses, magus.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

another one of those silly DP's that i would like responded to:

what all kind of DI can be regrabbed by ganons uthrow against spacies? when the regrab is possible, it seems a lot easier to pull off than a dthrow regrab. although when its not, it seems impossible to follow at all...

 

[Magus420]

I don't know the percents, but at some point you should be able regrab if they do anything but DI mostly/fully away. If they DI away you can only go for the techchase. People tend to DI it not away much more often if you just d-throw regrabbed and they DI'd that away. It's probably better used like that at upper percents to set up a stronger move to kill/get them offstage with than you can get at that damage off d-throw (b-air vs f-tilt), though I haven't experimented using it shortly before the point d-throw CG is manageable where it might be decent because I'd rather techchase off d-throw than away DI on u-throw since you can do side-b/d-smash **** off d-throw which is a lot more reliable for me.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

ah, it took a few reads, but now i understand what you're saying.

simpler uthrow cg isn't as good as normal dthrow techchase, cause there are good 3/4 option follows off of mid low percent dthrows, but if they DO DI the uthrow away, then you end up with a more complicated chase.

given what was in the "techchasing fastfallers" thread way back when, i'd have to agree, it does seem pretty reliable.

 

[-ACE-]

If you grab a fastfaller at mid/high% while facing the edge, uthrow is pretty sweet. DI behind gives you bair/platform techchase, DI away gives you an edgeguard opportunity, and anything between you can either regrab or aerial.

 

[DippnDots]

bump for sticky

why hasnt this happened yet?

 

[-ACE-]

Because I don't mod the Ganon boards anymore

Because it's linked in the Ultimate Ganon Topic thread

Because (seemingly) most Ganons underrate chaingrabbing as a skill worth mastering

I'm for a sticky. Not every new Ganon main knows to go to the Ultimate Ganon topic. They just go linguini's thread and lurk or ask basic questions.

 

[DippnDots]

dunno, i've been cc'ing foxs falcos and sheiks lately in matches, this showed me how i was doing it wrong at certain percents, it's a hell of a lot easier than you might think

 

[-ACE-]

I'm not one of those ganon's lol. I love chaingrabbing and have it down 100% on all viable matchups besides spacies. I'm pretty good at chaingrabbing falco above 50%. Fox isn't as easy lol.

 

[Manondorf]

One time in a friendly I chain grabbed a sheik 0-death, finished with a fsmash for the win. I was at like 90% last stock too, haha.

 

[DippnDots]

I did that in a tournament recently, except i had only lost one stock and it was sheiks last around 80%

<3 FD sometimes

edit: he also hasn't played melee competitively since before brawl, but when he cp'd sheik there was no mercy

 

[Strong Badam]

Mew2King wouldn't let me CG his Sheik with Ganon else he'd do the same

 

[-ACE-]

I always cg and expect the same in return, it takes a lot of effort not to get grabbed but its essential to beating good sheiks sometimes, imo.

 

[Manondorf]

I always cg and expect the same in return, it takes a lot of effort not to get grabbed but its essential to beating good sheiks sometimes, imo.

Exactly. I won't be intimidated by my opponent no matter how strong they are. If you let them get inside your head before the match has even started then you've already lost.

 

[SwizzyUK]

I always cg and expect the same in return, it takes a lot of effort not to get grabbed but its essential to beating good sheiks sometimes, imo.

Agreed. Ganon's grabs have really surprising ranges as well so works wonders for catching your opponent out. If I don't get 2 kills per game from chaingrabs against sheik then I've either been severely outclassed, or I feel like I've failed... at life.

Edit: I do mostly play PAL though, so don't feel the pain of my own medicine from sheik very often

 

[King Mob]

Is there any way to see those gifs and videos again?

 

[Linguini]

lol king mob, what a ganon name.

 

[King Mob]

lol king mob, what a ganon name.

That's exactly what I thought when I read The Invisibles, which is what I took it from. Anyway, is there a download link anywhere for the gifs magus posted? Maybe even webms of them?

 

[MudkipUniverse]

This is amazing. Chaingrabs are not used too much in the ganon meta, for whatever reason.

I guess that is how we can push the meta

 

[Superspright]

It isn't used because people make execution errors on it primarily, and also the read is very subtle (even worse when your opponent gets good at DIing just barely behind you to screw up your read). It's the hardest CG in the game, and if you drop it you probably lose momentum...there's a lot of reasons why most don't even attempt it. It's THE strongest tool he has against a lot of the cast--especially Sheik. If someone got consistent with it it would be noticeable in the way people played against them. So far his grab game isn't that good yet, but if it ever was it would be silly.

 

[-ACE-]

Reads? Relying on reads will get you nowhere fast. You should be going for regrabs on reaction only, when you are certain you can get the regrab. Set your own limit, percent-wise, according to your reaction skills so that you don't miss regrabs.

The exception is buffering a dthrow at low% which gives them minimal time to DI, so you can halfway expect them to have no DI (depends on the scenario and how well you know your opponent).

Vs spacies at 0% you can jab, and regrab them during landing lag (jab doesn't knockdown at that low of a percent), and repeat it again. And then techchase. Not a chaingrabbing scenario but a good opener for quick damage and frustrating your opponent.

 

[Superspright]

I meant read as in read the DI...not as in reading someone ahead of time.

 

[WoK_a^2]

Bump for a rehost /recapture for those gifs?

Awesome vids btw, the slow mo on dreamland makes the music sound so evil and fits the cg perfectly haha

 

[-ACE-]

Bump for a rehost /recapture for those gifs?

Awesome vids btw, the slow mo on dreamland makes the music sound so evil and fits the cg perfectly haha

I doubt you'll be seeing those pics again.

 

[WoK_a^2]

Alright, when I get home I guess I'll have to capture them myself and upload them for us Ganons. Do you have any recommendation on the best way to show the different grab lengths? Just screen shot them with the active hit boxes? And were they gifs or images?

 

[-ACE-]

gifs of action replay I think.

Showing all frames of grab duration/yellow hitboxes.

 

[WoK_a^2]

Cool I'm on vacation right now but get back in a few days. 20xx and my capture card are waiting for me.

 

[-ACE-]

NOICE.

I should have gotten recording equipment a long time ago lol

 

[WoK_a^2]

Okay so the site lost it so im going to one day make gifs of them again

 

[krazyzyko]

What about pivoting? Does it cover slight DI behind and no DI?

 

[-ACE-]

What about pivoting? Does it cover slight DI behind and no DI?

It can be done, but the strategies Magus describes are much more practical. Take it from me. Just do what Magus says in this thread, it is truly an unholy bible for chaingrabbing.

 

[-ACE-]

WORLD RECORD Ganon chaingrab on Fox 39-death ONLINE (HQ)

If I can do it a lot of others can too.Magus420 has the Falco World Record at 20-death.I have done this many other times over the past decade but now I can f...

youtu.be

Never stop grinding.

 

[-ACE-]

I think he likes me!

youtu.be

Show this to anyone saying you can't react to falco at 50%. You can actually react below 50%.

ON FOX AS WELL.