The future of wave dashing/wave landing.

Atem

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#1
In the trailer directional air dodging was told to return. This is the technique that made wave dashing possible in Melee. But this new directional air dodging has a draw back of the more you use it the slower it gets. So my question is how is how will wave dashing be used?

I personally think to will basically replace perfect pivoting for spacing and will help people get onto the ledge.
 
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Tybis

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#5

Wavedashing does exist, but is nowhere near as spammable as Melee's.
One thing to keep in mind is that landing lag for air dodging was introduced in Smash 4 and seems to be in Ultimate as well.
 

NobleClamtasm

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#7
Let's not make any conclusive statements here. Keep in mind that we are judging an unfinished demo. During the Smash 4 invitational, the Nintendo reps were very open to the players' criticism, notably the landing lag on aerial attacks, which were addressed by the game's launch. And let's not forget the huge hitstun patch that came a few months after Smash Wii U's release. Lowering the landing lag of directional air dodges can be an incredibly easy fix that I'm sure the pro players are being very vocal about.
 

Atem

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#8
Let's not make any conclusive statements here. Keep in mind that we are judging an unfinished demo. During the Smash 4 invitational, the Nintendo reps were very open to the players' criticism, notably the landing lag on aerial attacks, which were addressed by the game's launch. And let's not forget the huge hitstun patch that came a few months after Smash Wii U's release. Lowering the landing lag of directional air dodges can be an incredibly easy fix that I'm sure the pro players are being very vocal about.
I personally believe that wave dashing will happen because this is a huge focal point in the presentation.
 

dahuterschuter

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#9
I personally believe that wave dashing will happen because this is a huge focal point in the presentation.
Wavedashing was not a focal point in the presentation.

Directional airdodging has already been shown not to produce wavedashing in Sm4.5sh, much like Brawl.
 

Atem

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#10
Wavedashing was not a focal point in the presentation.

Directional airdodging has already been shown not to produce wavedashing in Sm4.5sh, much like Brawl.
It was a large part of the technical side with other things being pushed to the side in just mentions.
 

dahuterschuter

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#11
It was a large part of the technical side with other things being pushed to the side in just mentions.
It was not a large part, no, and even if the Direct was forty minutes of "You can airdodge directionally in this version of the game" instead of half a minute, it only means that there would then be forty minutes of evidence wavedashing is not a property of these directional airdodges instead of half a minute of evidence. As it stands, we now have hours of evidence from game footage at the invitational and the showroom floor and the Treehouse that airdodging directionally into the ground does not produce a wavedash.

Now, what evidence do you have to suggest that airdodging directionally into the ground in this port does produce a wavedash? I've been waiting for you to post it for almost two hours and you haven't?
 

Atem

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#12
It was not a large part, no, and even if the Direct was forty minutes of "You can airdodge directionally in this version of the game" instead of half a minute, it only means that there would then be forty minutes of evidence wavedashing is not a property of these directional airdodges instead of half a minute of evidence. As it stands, we now have hours of evidence from game footage at the invitational and the showroom floor and the Treehouse that airdodging directionally into the ground does not produce a wavedash.

Now, what evidence do you have to suggest that airdodging directionally into the ground in this port does produce a wavedash? I've been waiting for you to post it for almost two hours and you haven't?
The directional air dodge and perfect shielding were a large part of the technical aspect not the entire presentation. Also if there edvice of what you are talking about name the timestap so I can see it because I have not seen what you are talking about.
 
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dahuterschuter

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#13
The directional air dodge and perfect shielding were a large part of the technical aspect not the entire presentation.
Right, and as I said, the size of their time on screen is completely irrelevant to the properties of the mechanic shown. Thy were shown in that thirty seconds not to produce wavedashing. Then they were shown across the rest fo the day not to as well.
Also if there edviceof what you are talking about name the timestap so I can see it.
Sure bro, here's literal hours of nobody wavedashing, from the thousands of people playing it n the showroom floor, to even the professional Melee players in the invitational:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GY2YQzqydSw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FchkqXEg0qs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpjFpt-7k_Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oPhDrn7juE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_mbvCzjpPw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvnKqRd5HkY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyZqZ1XH0kM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXzlF9_8Ezs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAWlA5EKJoU

There's this awesome feature on a website called youtube.com that allows you to search for specific footage. Just type in "Smash Bros Ultimate" in the search bar (that's the box at the top) and it will allow you to find content on the game in question. You're welcome m8!


Also 2 hours dude why?
Why have I been waiting for two hours? Well that's on you isn't it? I've been waiting for YOU to post evidence of wavedashing in this game. You haven't. Why haven't you? Because you don't have any. So I guess the long answer to that question is just, "Because in two hours you've failed to post your evidence".
 
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OldmanKarp

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#14
The main issue here is that there is a huge delay between when you are first allowed to air dodge and when you input the jump, preventing wavedashing from occuring. In order to allow it, they would have to remove that lag, a relatively simple fix. Problem is that it was mostly likely deliberately put in to prevent wavedashing. Sakurai believes that melee gave players tendonitis with the technical demands, so this is something he wants to avoid. The fact that nintendo is being open to feedback is slightly encouraging, but it will take a lot of pressing to even have a slight chance of them adding in wavedashing.

EDIT: there is apparently a pseudowavedash that Chu was doing
 
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Atem

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#15
Right, and as I said, the size of their time on screen is completely irrelevant to the properties of the mechanic shown. Thy were shown in that thirty seconds not to produce wavedashing. Then they were shown across the rest fo the day not to as well.
Sure bro, here's literal hours of nobody wavedashing, from the thousands of people playing it n the showroom floor, to even the professional Melee players in the invitational:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GY2YQzqydSw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FchkqXEg0qs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpjFpt-7k_Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oPhDrn7juE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_mbvCzjpPw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvnKqRd5HkY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyZqZ1XH0kM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXzlF9_8Ezs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAWlA5EKJoU

There's this awesome feature on a website called youtube.com that allows you to search for specific footage. Just type in "Smash Bros Ultimate" in the search bar (that's the box at the top) and it will allow you to find content on the game in question. You're welcome m8!


Why have I been waiting for two hours? Well that's on you isn't it? I've been waiting for YOU to post evidence of wavedashing in this game. You haven't. Why haven't you? Because you don't have any. So I guess the long answer to that question is just, "Because in two hours you've failed to post your evidence".
A chill dude I am not killing anyone. But in those videos yes directional air dodging was used (in on with Shofu only once to avoid an attack) very little and actually never used directly down like you said. Also Armada said that wave lands and maybe with some practice (new physics engine) they can wave dash.

The main issue here is that there is a huge delay between when you are first allowed to air dodge and when you input the jump, preventing wavedashing from occuring. In order to allow it, they would have to remove that lag, a relatively simple fix. Problem is that it was mostly likely deliberately put in to prevent wavedashing. Sakurai believes that melee gave players tendonitis with the technical demands, so this is something he wants to avoid. The fact that nintendo is being open to feedback is slightly encouraging, but it will take a lot of pressing to even have a slight chance of them adding in wavedashing.

EDIT: there is apparently a pseudowavedash that Chu was doing
Probably but I think it could be possible if enough hours are put in. It could be a new technique no one knows about yet. But who knows.
 
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dahuterschuter

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#16
We expected civil behavior. In addition, aggressively going after a user is inappropriate and will not be tolerated. Respect is a requirement here, not an "option".
A chill dude I am not killing anyone. But in those videos yes directional air dodging was used (in on with Shofu only once to avoid an attack) very little and actually never used directly down like you said. Also Armada said that wave lands and maybe with some practice (new physics engine) they can wave dash.
Oh you watched all the hours of footage pretty fast didn't you?

Do you think that no-one tried to wavedash all day today? Do you really think that? Do you think it wasn't the first thing that every Melee player tried to do when playing the game?

Do you know why none of the Melee players ever wavedashed in the invitational?

Now please, I've been waiting so, so, so long, I just posted several hours of people not wavedashing because it's not possible. All I'm asking is for you to post one wavedash from al the footage today. Just one. If you can post one second of wavedashing from today's showcases, it will invalidate all my hours and hours of video evidence of no wavedashing. I'm begging you to do it. I would love for it to be in the game. Please prove me wrong. Just one second of wavedashing. If you don't have that attached to your next post, I'm not even going to bother giving you another Alert.
 

OldmanKarp

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#17
Probably but I think it could be possible if enough hours are put in. It could be a new technique no one knows about yet. But who knows.
It would honestly take 10 minutes tops given that directional air dodging is it's own action command, unlike in smash 4. One would just have to code in a method that transfers the momentum from the air dodge into pure horizontal momentum upon hitting the ground if the condition that one is hitting the ground is met, and then just reduce the number of frames of startup lag universally to 1 or 2. That's not really the issue. The fact is that if there were any practical form of wavedashing intended to be in the game, we would have seen it at some point during the invitational. The task here is to convince the developers that it's a worthy addition, not to try to discover something that doesn't exist.
 
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Atem

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#20
Thread will be open now.

A reminder to be respectful to other users and to not be aggressive with your arguments. It doesn't serve any purpose other than annoying others and possibly causing tons of drama.
Thank you so much

It would honestly take 10 minutes tops given that directional air dodging is it's own action command, unlike in smash 4. One would just have to code in a method that transfers the momentum from the air dodge into pure horizontal momentum upon hitting the ground if the condition that one is hitting the ground is met, and then just reduce the number of frames of startup lag universally to 1 or 2. That's not really the issue. The fact is that if there were any practical form of wavedashing intended to be in the game, we would have seen it at some point during the invitational. The task here is to convince the developers that it's a worthy addition, not to try to discover something that doesn't exist.
The game is not finished so wave dashing could be added in but it could be in. The odds are slim but any chance sounds pretty amazing. It also took people along time to discover the untechable situation that is horrid today. It could be there if months straight are put into it.
 

Squii The Fish

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#21
Hi

I think taking out perfect pivot is awful.

I like perfect pivot.

Wavedashing is ok too bad it dosen't work in the E3 build.

But removing perfect pivot makes me sad.

Currently we have dashing, walking and rolling and jumping for approach options. This is like smash 64.
Except without fun and silly 64 hitstun and L cancelling.

Perfect pivot would you let you slide into a enemy while attacking.
It looks pretty cool.
its like wavedashing except with a set distance. It was a good compromise imo.

Inb4 dash can be canceled into anything.
Thats still cool and the game looks fun.
But RIP perfect pivot.
 

Legendary Spirit Tamer

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#22
Wavelanding is in the e3 build at least. Whether or not Wavedashing becomes a part of it is hard to say. It seems like Wavedashing might be kept out due to how powerful a tech it is, with Wavelanding, which is weaker, kept in. Who knows.
 

Octavium

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#24
I guess wave dashing is coming back npw,just have to find a way so it won't be an overwhelming tactic for players to face
No worries, despite some of the best players to ever play smash bros participating in the invitational (some maining melee), there is not a single shred of evidence about wavedashing being a thing in SSBU.
 
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ckrocker

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#25
Wow it’s been years since I’ve been here. So after seeing Armada’s video it seems the only thing keeping wavedash from being a viable tech is end lag reduction. Still, seem kind of pointless to have it with the dash cancel tech in place but we’ll see...
 

SynikaL

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#33
Dash dancing is in, not as effective as melee though according to Armada.
Well, I saw Zero doing it in-between stocks with a very small degree of displacement. This is similar to how it's been since Brawl. Has it changed from that, or is what Zero was doing in the Grand Finals essentially it?
 

T-Donor66

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#34
Actually wave dashing was known by the developers while creating the game. Also this is classified as an exploit of the physics engine and not a glitch
Oh, I know. I just threw out a nonsensical generalization in reply to his generalization, his Sma4.5h comment.
Well, I saw Zero doing it in-between stocks with a very small degree of displacement. This is similar to how it's been since Brawl. Has it changed from that, or is what Zero was doing in the Grand Finals essentially it?
Hmm. Not really sure, I’m just going off of what Armada said in his newest video.
 
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Atem

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#36
To continue the topic since we know wave landing will be one hundred percent in the game. How will the meta use it? Will it be common or will those rolls be used for defensive play?
 

EMT~

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#39
Copying (with some edits) from a post I made in another thread:

From what I've heard, it seems that wavedashing is back in the game, but it's not very good. Zer0 described it as "[adding wavedash] half-way in" (https://youtu.be/oL2wQv8CGTo), and Mew2King says that it's "not done correctly" and that it "sucks" (https://youtu.be/ZRWxcEsJP_k) as currently implemented. I'm sure in part that it's less spammable than in Melee because of the new dodge decay mechanics applying to airdodges as well. But regardless, the actual act of wavedashing seems to be in the game. Wavelanding actually is back confirmed and legit, but it's nerfed from Melee. You can't use waveland to slide off platforms, and it has the same dodge decay issue as mentioned above. Armada talks about this in his experience with the game, at least the former issue (https://youtu.be/B0r8BpON5mE).
 
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