The friendly dinosaur, all alone. Yoshi character discussion!

[jigglover]

Wait... you're actually serious about this??

Remember, it wasn't technically Mario, it was "Jumpman," and he was the main playable character and protagonist of the game. Donkey Kong was the name of the game, but it could probably go either way. Plus, compare the Mario franchise to the Yoshi and Donkey Kong franchise... oh, that's right, you can't. From the game "Donkey Kong" (which, again, starred BOTH characters), Mario took off on his own, instantly becoming popular and creating a massive franchise. Donkey Kong got his own series, like Donkey Kong Country, but still remained associated with the Mario series, and Yoshi's Island directly spun-off from Mario. It's different, because you really can't compare Mario with Donkey Kong and Yoshi. The difference is just to huge.

WTF!? I've been saying that for ages the only way you can compare the two series' is by getting an average, since that is the only fair way due to Mario's superior size. Finally, you've seen the light! I wasn't serious about the last couple of comments, but I thought it may make you do what you did, which was see what I was seeing in the logic and sense of yesterday.

 

[Airslash]

I want Shy Guy and Kamek as playable characters so badly.

<3

 

[Opossum]

I feel the need to bring up again, what Golden said, about Shy Guy being grouped in with Mario characters instead of Yoshi with his series trophy. None of the "Shy Guy is a Yoshi character" people have tried to explain that yet...

 

[jigglover]

Did the Yoshi series not have only Yoshi and Super dragon?

 

[Gene]

I like Yoshi better than Poochy, since I don't know him/her.

You should get to know Poochy sometime. He's not stupid.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

You should get to know Poochy sometime. He's not He ain't stupid.

Fixed just for you. Get it right next time.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

I feel the need to bring up again, what Golden said, about Shy Guy being grouped in with Mario characters instead of Yoshi with his series trophy. None of the "Shy Guy is a Yoshi character" people have tried to explain that yet...

THANK YOU!

That pretty much settles the debate right there, but stubborn people who can't admit when they're wrong will constantly concoct new, terrible arguments like "Duuuh Sakurai could change his mind?!?"

...

...No.

 

[jigglover]

THANK YOU!

That pretty much settles the debate right there, but stubborn people who can't admit when they're wrong will constantly concoct new, terrible arguments like "Duuuh Sakurai could change his mind?!?"

...

...No.

It did seem a lot like I won earlier in the thread. Or is that just me?

 

[Opossum]

It's just you, don't worry!

 

[jigglover]

I didn't see that coming.. Honestly, I won! Look at the first comment on this page!

 

[Opossum]

You...actually didn't.

You still have failed to bring up the trophy classification point, which utterly ruins your case.

That, and in a debate on characters for an upcoming video game that has no chance of determining the final outcome over the internet, there are no winners. Only neutral people and losers.

 

[jigglover]

You...actually didn't.

You still have failed to bring up the trophy classification point, which utterly ruins your case.

That, and in a debate on characters for an upcoming video game that has no chance of determining the final outcome over the internet, there are no winners. Only neutral people and losers.

Ok then, actually I did say that Sakurai didn't know much (if anything) about the Yoshi series because it's only two trophies were Yoshi and super dragon!

 

[Opossum]

So, due to that, we can assume that Shy Guy would still be considered a Mario character, as Sakurai depicted him as such.

 

[jigglover]

He might have played yoshis island ds!

 

[Opossum]

Assumptions only lead to crazy theories.

Sakurai may have changed his mind about "4th Parties" after watching a Mickey Mouse cartoon. Mickey for SSB4.


See how that works? I hope so; writing it was painful.

 

[jigglover]

Assumptions only lead to crazy theories.

Sakurai may have changed his mind about "4th Parties" after watching a Mickey Mouse cartoon. Mickey for SSB4.


See how that works? I hope so; writing it was painful.

Lol, all I'm saying is that Sakurai might have learned more about the yoshi series

 

[Opossum]

Yes, but we have no proof of such occurrences. Until then, we can only assume that his decision was made.

 

[Gene]

Fixed just for you. Get it right next time.

shinpichu. Where would I be without you?

 

[Robert of Normandy]

shinpichu. Where would I be without you?

Over there. Just over there.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

It did seem a lot like I won earlier in the thread. Or is that just me?

..."Won?" I didn't know this was a competition. All I'm trying to do is to get you to be reasonable and maybe use a bit of logic for once. It's a stupid debate (because the fact that Shy Guy is a Mario character is so damn obvious), but I just want to see if I can get you to finally understand. I'm not trying to "win" anything.

Sakurai may have changed his mind about "4th Parties" after watching a Mickey Mouse cartoon. Mickey for SSB4.

This right here is the exact reason why the whole "Sakurai could have changed his mind" argument is extremely ignorant and an all-around terrible argument, making you look bad as a speculator.

Lol, all I'm saying is that Sakurai might have learned more about the yoshi series

Uh, proof? How the hell are we supposed to know that? Besides, the last "Yoshi game" was released in 2006, and Sakurai has already acknowledged the fact that it was the Shy Guy's last mainstream appearance. Hell, he even says in a trophy description that Shy Guy "has appeared in a number of Mario and Yoshi games." He knows about Shy Guy's relevance in the Yoshi series. But he's also smart enough to realize that Shy Guy is a MARIO character, which is why he placed him among the MARIO series trophies.

I have yet to hear a logical argument from you, but I would like to hear one against this.

 

[jigglover]

I've already had one. Sakurai clearly didn't want to put many Yoshi trophies in, since he must have been unsure on their standings. The only Yoshi trophies are Yoshi himself and his final smash!

 

[Mypantisgone]

I've already had one. Sakurai clearly didn't want to put many Yoshi trophies in, since he must have been unsure on their standings. The only Yoshi trophies are Yoshi himself and his final smash!

You're saying this like Yoshi didn't have many trophys in Melee,as if Sakurai knew a lot.
He is an encyclopedy.
:l

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

arguing by saying what somebody else was thinking is generally not a good argument, considering no one can really know what somebody else is truly thinking. You can argue that Yoshi could have gotten more trophies, but saying why Sakurai did it implies you know exactly what he's thinking, which is a 100% flawed logic and holds almost zero weight

EDIT: To keep this on topic, i really dont see any new Yoshi characters joining. It could be because i view Yoshi as the only main character of the series that means anything to Smash Bros or could contribute.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

I've already had one. Sakurai clearly didn't want to put many Yoshi trophies in, since he must have been unsure on their standings. The only Yoshi trophies are Yoshi himself and his final smash!

Actually, not true. The Baby Mario and Baby Peach trophies are also in the Yoshi's Island series. Sakurai knows exactly what he is doing.

This is another flawed argument, because once again, you are acting as if you what exactly what Sakurai was thinking. I don't even know why Yoshi's Island having only four trophies has anything to do with Shy Guy being a "Yoshi character." You still have not presented a good argument.

arguing by saying what somebody else was thinking is generally not a good argument, considering no one can really know what somebody else is truly thinking. You can argue that Yoshi could have gotten more trophies, but saying why Sakurai did it implies you know exactly what he's thinking, which is a 100% flawed logic and holds almost zero weight

EDIT: To keep this on topic, i really dont see any new Yoshi characters joining. It could be because i view Yoshi as the only main character of the series that means anything to Smash Bros or could contribute.

Agreed on both comments.

The Yoshi's Island series is almost too closely related to the Mario series to completely differentiate the two. I mean, it's just barely a different series. Donkey Kong and Wario games are understandable, considering they have entirely different casts of characters and no instances of Mario and friends or Bowser or any of that Mushroom Kingdom-y stuff. This is why the Yoshi series will not receive a newcomer anytime soon.

 

[jigglover]

Actually, not true. The Baby Mario and Baby Peach trophies are also in the Yoshi's Island series. Sakurai knows exactly what he is doing.

This is another flawed argument, because once again, you are acting as if you what exactly what Sakurai was thinking. I don't even know why Yoshi's Island having only four trophies has anything to do with Shy Guy being a "Yoshi character." You still have not presented a good argument.



Agreed on both comments.

The Yoshi's Island series is almost too closely related to the Mario series to completely differentiate the two. I mean, it's just barely a different series. Donkey Kong and Wario games are understandable, considering they have entirely different casts of characters and no instances of Mario and friends or Bowser or any of that Mushroom Kingdom-y stuff. This is why the Yoshi series will not receive a newcomer anytime soon.

Let's say that Shy guy is a mario character, we still have Kamek, or is he a mario character too? At least he acknowledges that the babies are Yoshi characters, so we can still get baby bros. - oh wait, is that only baby mario and peach, is Baby luigi not? In that case I'd better change the baby bros. to baby mario and Peach in the OP. If trophies determine everything, then Yoshi baby mario and baby peach are the only members of the yoshi series, thank you for clearing that up for me.

 

[Deleted member]

Lack of a trophy means nothing. Don't be jumping to sarcastic conclusions.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Let's say that Shy guy is a mario character, we still have Kamek, or is he a mario character too? At least he acknowledges that the babies are Yoshi characters, so we can still get baby bros. - oh wait, is that only baby mario and peach, is Baby luigi not? In that case I'd better change the baby bros. to baby mario and Peach in the OP. If trophies determine everything, then Yoshi baby mario and baby peach are the only members of the yoshi series, thank you for clearing that up for me.

Jigglover... sometimes, I wonder if you read what you are typing before you actually post it. It's good to know what you are talking about before you actually talk about it.

Once again, terrible argument. Your use of sarcasm is laughable, considering you aren't even arguing any previous point I have made. I never said that the Baby Bros. can't make an appearance because Baby Luigi doesn't have any trophies in the Yoshi series, so... I'm not sure exactly where you are going with this...

All I said was that Shy Guy is considered to be a Mario character by Sakurai (y'know... the guy who makes the games), as evidenced by the fact that Shy Guy's trophy is among the Mario characters. Never did I say that the lack of a characters trophy in any series automatically blocks out their inclusion.

Oh, and I'm still waiting to see you produce something logical in response... it hasn't come yet.

 

[jigglover]

Sakurai isn't the only person who makes this game for crying out loud! If other people in production think that shy guy is a Yoshi character, and also think that he should get in, then by all chances he can. Trophies are fairly irrelevant in the game in the long-run, and not much thought goes into them, and in all likelihood, where they go. I suppose that it makes sense looking at Dark Samus' as well.

 

[Opossum]

My school has a janitor. If the janitor wants to change the dress code, does that mean the Principal or Superintendent doesn't get a say?


Ultimately, Sakurai still has the final say, regardless what the lower downs (would that be the opposite of "higher-ups") think or say.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

No, but we know that Sakurai creates the roster himself. That's what we're talking about here isn't it? The roster? Regardless, he has the last word on ANY element of the game, being its director and all (thats a big title).

Trophies give us insights on how Sakurai and his development team(s) see certain characters. It just so happens that they see Shy Guy as a Mario character.

Will they change their minds? We don't know. Do other developers think differently? We don't know. So stop using those arguments.

 

[jigglover]

For crying out loud! Sakurai does get the final say, but other developers can sway his opinion! Even one can. Shy guy obviously had no consideration pre-brawl as a playable character, or at least what series he'd be in, and Sakurai probably just chucked him in the mario series since he looked at his first game.

 

[Opossum]

Again, you're basis for your argument is things that could have happened. We're, logically, using things that have happened. All you're doing is losing credibility. And fast.

 

[jigglover]

You have one reasonable argument, his first game appearance was Doki Doki Panic Super mario bros. 2.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

For crying out loud! Sakurai does get the final say, but other developers can sway his opinion! Even one can. Shy guy obviously had no consideration pre-brawl as a playable character, or at least what series he'd be in, and Sakurai probably just chucked him in the mario series since he looked at his first game.

What Opposum said. It's entirely possible that someone could "sway his opinion," but how do you know that will happen? From the past, we KNOW that Sakurai and/or his development team has placed Shy Guy within the Mario series (as a side note, Sakurai wasn't "swayed" then, was he?). There's my proof. We don't KNOW that Sakurai will change his mind or have his opinion "swayed by others." Where's your proof of that?

See the difference? I'm just trying to help you think logically based on Sakurai's actual words and actions rather than what you think he might do. "It is possible that Sakurai will change his mind about anime characters, so therefore, I believe it is highly likely that we will see anime characters like Naruto and Goku in SSB4." See why that argument sucks?

You have one reasonable argument, his first game appearance was Doki Doki Panic Super mario bros. 2.

-Shy Guy appeared first in Super Mario Bros. 2 (Doki Doki Panic). He was a character before YOSHI HIMSELF.
-Shy Guy has appeared in many Mario games (remember, appearance is what matters, not mainstream vs. spin-off, and not the characters role). He CONTINUES to appear in Mario games, while the Yoshi's Island series hasn't had a new game since 2006.
-Masahiro Sakurai, THE DIRECTOR OF THE SMASH SERIES has placed Shy Guy's trophy among the SUPER MARIO series, NOT the Yoshi's Island series.

Count 'em. THREE.

That last point pretty much seals the deal though. You don't even need the first two points with that last one.

 

[jigglover]

Ugh.. This has gone on for what? 4 days? Just call a truce. OK?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I hate to tell you, but this is hardly a truce. You haven't even responded to any point anyone here has made, and all you have used to support your thought is circumstantial "evidence". You CANNOT use circumstantial stuff like you have to support an idea, because you just can't prove it

 

[Spydr Enzo]

I don't know if this is as much a truce as it is a surrender from your side of the argument. You literally have not presented a single reasonable, logical, or valid argument.

I'll tell you what... This is quite a pointless debate (due to the extremely slim chances of a new Yoshi character, as well as the even slimmer chances of Shy Guy being playable), and so I will not continue to argue if you do not continue to present fallacious arguments that hold no weight. My point has been made quite clear (yet you fail to accept it), and so I will accept the "truce" as a "surrender" and an admission of the fact that, ultimately, you were wrong.

And just to be clear, I'm not arguing to be a jerk, or because I like to argue (although I cannot lie, I do enjoy a good debate), but rather because many people on these forums have illogical and unreasonable thought processes when it comes to roster selections. All I'm trying to do is to help people think a bit more critically and logically... something that never hurts. That's all!

 

[jigglover]

Yoshi has had: 10
Mario has had: 130
DK has had: 59
Wario has had: 13
Luigi has had: 2, 1 upcoming
Dr. Mario has had: 8
Paper Mario has had: 4

This is the number of appearances (exactly) of each series or sub-series of Mario. Can you see why trying to compare a character from one of the sub-series' of mario to the mario series, you'd need to use an average. In shy guy's case, 10 yoshi games and 130 mario, it's practically impossible for him not to be in more mario games; as it is for every other character in the series. On weight-loss shows, they judge how much wait someone has lost with a percentage, rather than the actual weight-loss because it's only fair. This is exactly the same.

I don't know if this is as much a truce as it is a surrender from your side of the argument. You literally have not presented a single reasonable, logical, or valid argument.

I'll tell you what... This is quite a pointless debate (due to the extremely slim chances of a new Yoshi character, as well as the even slimmer chances of Shy Guy being playable), and so I will not continue to argue if you do not continue to present fallacious arguments that hold no weight. My point has been made quite clear (yet you fail to accept it), and so I will accept the "truce" as a "surrender" and an admission of the fact that, ultimately, you were wrong.

And just to be clear, I'm not arguing to be a jerk, or because I like to argue (although I cannot lie, I do enjoy a good debate), but rather because many people on these forums have illogical and unreasonable thought processes when it comes to roster selections. All I'm trying to do is to help people think a bit more critically and logically... something that never hurts. That's all!

I too like a good debate, and it took me 30 minutes to relay the information from here: http://www.mariowiki.com/List_of_Mario_games_by_date to my post after reading scolosis jones, and I'm hoping you may finally see it how I do.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

No truce? That's fine with me, I don't mind continuing the debate.

Yoshi has had: 10
Mario has had: 130
DK has had: 59
Wario has had: 13
Luigi has had: 2, 1 upcoming
Dr. Mario has had: 8
Paper Mario has had: 4

This is the number of appearances (exactly) of each series or sub-series of Mario. Can you see why trying to compare a character from one of the sub-series' of mario to the mario series, you'd need to use an average. In shy guy's case, 10 yoshi games and 130 mario, it's practically impossible for him not to be in more mario games; as it is for every other character in the series. On weight-loss shows, they judge how much wait someone has lost with a percentage, rather than the actual weight-loss because it's only fair. This is exactly the same.

I too like a good debate, and it took me 30 minutes to relay the information from here: http://www.mariowiki.com/List_of_Mario_games_by_date to my post after reading scolosis jones, and I'm hoping you may finally see it how I do.

I can see what you are trying to say, but it is still illogical.

First of all, the fact that there are 130 Mario games compared to Yoshi's meager amount of 10 doesn't make Shy Guy more of a Yoshi character, but in fact it does the opposite. There are many people who don't even consider the Yoshi's Island series as a separate series from Mario (or rather, consider it just a sub-series, but still MARIO). Basically, Yoshi is a Mario character, but Sakurai acknowledges that the character has spawned his own sort of sub-series, and so he gets his own series. The same can't be said for Shy Guy. He has appeared in more Yoshi games "on average", but he originated in Mario and appears in more Mario games (as he continues to do, unlike Yoshi's Island). This makes him more recognizable as a Mario character. He is basically a Mario character at his core, that happens to appear in more Yoshi games "on average."

By the way, the whole "on average" rule is something that you just made up. Show me where Sakurai back-up this rule of yours, and maybe I'll accept it ("I have a feeling that Sakurai counts characters on average" doesn't count. It doesn't matter what you "feel"). But until then, the argument is illogical, and it can't be accepted. Oh, and this isn't a weight-loss show... I don't know why you even bothered to bring that up...


I understand that you might think it makes more sense for Shy Guy to be a part of the Yoshi series, but honestly, it doesn't matter what you think. It also doesn't matter what you think Sakurai thinks, or what you think Sakurai's developers thoughts might make him think (confused?). What matters is what Sakurai has told us and shown us... nothing more. Right now, this isn't you vs. me... it's you vs. Sakurai. Think about it.

 

[jigglover]

I've thought about it, and what you say does make sense, but I do too! Where is your evidence that Sakurai doesn't do it by an average?