:034:
Smash Hero
Okay, rather than having separate threads on each of these things: I'll just compile one thread with all the **** I tested. I feel so important. Since Sliq and Jekyll are pretty much gone (busy with school, I think) and I have summer hoildays - I'll be your local tester for now. Just relay everything to me and I can test if you're too lazy. It's much preferred if you do it, but I won't hope for that.
Anyway. Let's get on with business.
Boost Smashing
Boost Smashing is the art of canceling your dash attack into an upsmash. For some characters, this results into a gigantic slide across the stage, most notable example being Snake (also known as mortar sliding), Link, Falco and Wolf. Any player who has been up against a good Snake has seen this in action. A Boost Smash is done by running, doing your dash attack and doing an upsmash immediately after. Recommended method is to use down on the c-stick and Z+Up immediately after.
Now, the 'Boost Smash' is available for everyone: but not everyone gets said boost from it. Ganondorf doesn't get a boost. However, try this out: if you're confident enough in boost smashing with Ganon (you should get a normal upsmash), stand in front of your opponent in training mode, and do an instant hyphen smash (tap left/right and slam c-stick up), but do it so your opponent is JUST out of range. I recommend using a stage with markings on the floor so you know where you were standing. Now, move back to that spot and do the Boost Smash. You should now be able to hit your opponent. Yes, ladies and gentlemen: Boost Smashing for Ganondorf exists, but it's such a small margin that it's practically useless.
Demonic Step
Here's something that's a bit more difficult to pull off: but VERY noticeable. The Demonic Step was discovered by UndrDog and it's a slide out of your sidestep. A very good one, I might add.
Video with Ganondorf doing the Demonic Step: Here.
Instructions (with Pit, but they're the same): Here.
Now, I've managed to get the slide to go a bit further than what UndrDog shows us, and it's very useful. Once you have the timing down, it's very easy to do. Quick step by step guide:
1. Sidestep.
2. Be sure to let go of the shield button.
3. Hold back during the duration of the sidestep.
4. Press forward when it ends.
5. Enjoy your Demonic Step.
The longer you manage to hold back, the longer your slide will be. If you see the turn-around: congratulations, you did it right. You can do anything out of this. Yes, anything. I don't know the absolute best uses for this right now, but you can easily go into jab or ftilt. See if you can combine it with a stutter stepped fsmash?
Testing to do:
- How this works with Murder Choke.
- How this works with Stutter Stepping.
- How far can you really go with this?
Methinks that this could very well be essential to Ganondorf's gameplay, seeing as how he hardly has any spacing techniques and anything that helps his range is good.
Shield Walking
Here's a video.
This is very easy to do and you will most likely get it almost right the first time.
What you do is tilt the control stick diagonally up (also works with left/right, but differently, sometimes you will do the Shield Walk and sometimes you'll stop in your tracks). Tap Jump doesn't need to be off. When you do this, simply tap R as portrayed in the video and you should be doing the Shield Walk. If you time this well, you can get from the left to the right side of Smashville when your shield breaks.
Obviously, this helps a lot for approaching against projectile spammers (most notably Falco). Of course you shouldn't approach with this alone, use your mindgames to mix it up. This is still helpful, though, since Shield Dashing (which is the origin of this) isn't fast enough to always work against the faster spammers among us.
Ways to mix it up:
- Use this then pop out with your dash attack/Murder Kick.
- Use this with Demonic Step.
- Use this with... any attack, really. You're walking, you can do anything out of it. Use your imagination.
Testing to do:
- Against who does this work best?
- Does timing need to change against certain characters?
Hitboxes!
Ranges of attacks are important: the more a hitbox is disjointed, the more useable the attack and the more priority it has.
The problem with testing is: Most of Ganon's aerials and his dash attack are movement, so I haven't finished testing yet. Remember that all these are estimates! Not concrete, perfect data.
Red = Hitbox
Blue = Sweetspot (purple on dtilt)
Purple = Grab
On to the good stuff:
Dark Dive:
So, what does this mean? Well...
- Fsmash has a CRAZY disjointed hitbox. It's pretty awesome. Don't forget you can angle it, too.
- Dair has disjoints on the side (but most of us knew this already).
- All of the Kick's purple smoke is hitbox, potentially being a sidestep punisher.
- Dark Uppercut has an INSANE hitbox and ledgegrab range.
- Ftilt does extend, but not as much as jab.
- Dsmash can hit some downed opponents.
- Warlock Punch ****ing sucks.
- Utilt's range ***** souls.
- Bair is... Weird.
- So is nair.
- Dair goes up to the chest, not the chin.
- Warlock Punch ****ing sucks...
So, which moves have the better range?
Horizontal:
1. Murder Kick
2. Dash Attack
3. Murder Choke
4. Utilt
5. Stutter stepped Fsmash
6. Fsmash
7. Dtilt
8. Jab
9. Dsmash hit 2.
10. Dsmash hit 1
11. Ftilt
12. Quake
13. Running grab
13. Usmash
15. Grab
Useless Autocancels
An autocancel is when you perform an aerial, and upon landing, you get no lag. Ganondorf has autocancel windows on ALL his aerials... Although nair's and fair's are useless.
By performing an aerial RIGHT before you hit the ground, the attack will be cancelled and you will suffer no lag. Easiest to do with the fair: you have to do it so that he will stick out his arm right before landing. Useless, but somewhat funny to see. Also, lagless fair jokes.
Platform Quake
The Quake is when you perform an aerial Murder Kick right after jumping... Step by step if you don't know yet:
1. Up on the control stick.
2. Down + B.
If you do it right, Ganondorf should slam into the ground, leaving lots of lag. This attack? Pretty much useless.
But, on a fall-through platform, you can easily whip this out and suprise an opponent that's coming to get you. All you have to do is down + B... But, with a slight catch. I'm not sure how it works, but I think you need to use down right before pressing B. That way, the 'fall through a platform' animation is triggered, making Ganondorf aerial, thus performing an aerial Murder Kick.
How much more useful is this than the usual Quake? Not a whole lot, but a bit more than the usual, seeing how there's a hitbox on the bottom, so it can possibly hit people through the platform? Vital technique that should be learned by everyone? Nah.
Swoops' Flame Choke to Dash Attack data!
Diminishing Knockback
Diminishing Knockback, Move Decay... It's not something we Ganon mains often worry about. After all, pretty much every move of ours is a killer. But, what about the move getting weaker? I've had some matches where I felt unable to kill, which might be alleviated to aforementioned problem of moves decaying.
It works like this:
- When you enter a match with a new stock (so at the very beginning and every time you die), all your moves are at Level 10.
- When using a move, it drops one level. The lowest is level 1, of course.
- The 'move decay list' is 9 moves long. When a move is not in this list, but it has been used once in that stock, it's level 9. A move can not be refreshed to level 10 without dying.
So, basically, the more you use a move in a row, the weaker it gets.
First of all: Kill percents for level 10 moves. This is calculated on a level 9 Mario in training mode, without DI.
Level 9 kill list so far: (yeah, it's unfinished, move decay is hard to test man) Again, done on Mario without DI.
As you can see, dair and DA decay heavily. What now? Well, it depends on who you're playing against, and your personal play style. Is the opponent small and/or hard to edgeguard? Save your Dash Attack and dair. Is your opponent big and heavy with a predictable recovery? Use Dash attack and dair if you want to. You can edgeguard with fair/uair for kills!
All depends on your own playstyle... I personally really like using dash attack as an approach and damaging move, but I save it against characters like Metaknight, to get off the easy DA>Shoulder kill at 85%... Think about it.
Remember kids, if you test stuff, ANYTHING, you might just find something gamebreaking for Ganondorf. And we'll have you to thank!
Anyway. Let's get on with business.
Boost Smashing
Boost Smashing is the art of canceling your dash attack into an upsmash. For some characters, this results into a gigantic slide across the stage, most notable example being Snake (also known as mortar sliding), Link, Falco and Wolf. Any player who has been up against a good Snake has seen this in action. A Boost Smash is done by running, doing your dash attack and doing an upsmash immediately after. Recommended method is to use down on the c-stick and Z+Up immediately after.
Now, the 'Boost Smash' is available for everyone: but not everyone gets said boost from it. Ganondorf doesn't get a boost. However, try this out: if you're confident enough in boost smashing with Ganon (you should get a normal upsmash), stand in front of your opponent in training mode, and do an instant hyphen smash (tap left/right and slam c-stick up), but do it so your opponent is JUST out of range. I recommend using a stage with markings on the floor so you know where you were standing. Now, move back to that spot and do the Boost Smash. You should now be able to hit your opponent. Yes, ladies and gentlemen: Boost Smashing for Ganondorf exists, but it's such a small margin that it's practically useless.
Demonic Step
Here's something that's a bit more difficult to pull off: but VERY noticeable. The Demonic Step was discovered by UndrDog and it's a slide out of your sidestep. A very good one, I might add.
Video with Ganondorf doing the Demonic Step: Here.
Instructions (with Pit, but they're the same): Here.
Now, I've managed to get the slide to go a bit further than what UndrDog shows us, and it's very useful. Once you have the timing down, it's very easy to do. Quick step by step guide:
1. Sidestep.
2. Be sure to let go of the shield button.
3. Hold back during the duration of the sidestep.
4. Press forward when it ends.
5. Enjoy your Demonic Step.
The longer you manage to hold back, the longer your slide will be. If you see the turn-around: congratulations, you did it right. You can do anything out of this. Yes, anything. I don't know the absolute best uses for this right now, but you can easily go into jab or ftilt. See if you can combine it with a stutter stepped fsmash?
Testing to do:
- How this works with Murder Choke.
- How this works with Stutter Stepping.
- How far can you really go with this?
Methinks that this could very well be essential to Ganondorf's gameplay, seeing as how he hardly has any spacing techniques and anything that helps his range is good.
Shield Walking
Here's a video.
This is very easy to do and you will most likely get it almost right the first time.
What you do is tilt the control stick diagonally up (also works with left/right, but differently, sometimes you will do the Shield Walk and sometimes you'll stop in your tracks). Tap Jump doesn't need to be off. When you do this, simply tap R as portrayed in the video and you should be doing the Shield Walk. If you time this well, you can get from the left to the right side of Smashville when your shield breaks.
Obviously, this helps a lot for approaching against projectile spammers (most notably Falco). Of course you shouldn't approach with this alone, use your mindgames to mix it up. This is still helpful, though, since Shield Dashing (which is the origin of this) isn't fast enough to always work against the faster spammers among us.
Ways to mix it up:
- Use this then pop out with your dash attack/Murder Kick.
- Use this with Demonic Step.
- Use this with... any attack, really. You're walking, you can do anything out of it. Use your imagination.
Testing to do:
- Against who does this work best?
- Does timing need to change against certain characters?
Hitboxes!
Ranges of attacks are important: the more a hitbox is disjointed, the more useable the attack and the more priority it has.
The problem with testing is: Most of Ganon's aerials and his dash attack are movement, so I haven't finished testing yet. Remember that all these are estimates! Not concrete, perfect data.
Red = Hitbox
Blue = Sweetspot (purple on dtilt)
Purple = Grab
On to the good stuff:
Dark Dive:
So, what does this mean? Well...
- Fsmash has a CRAZY disjointed hitbox. It's pretty awesome. Don't forget you can angle it, too.
- Dair has disjoints on the side (but most of us knew this already).
- All of the Kick's purple smoke is hitbox, potentially being a sidestep punisher.
- Dark Uppercut has an INSANE hitbox and ledgegrab range.
- Ftilt does extend, but not as much as jab.
- Dsmash can hit some downed opponents.
- Warlock Punch ****ing sucks.
- Utilt's range ***** souls.
- Bair is... Weird.
- So is nair.
- Dair goes up to the chest, not the chin.
- Warlock Punch ****ing sucks...
So, which moves have the better range?
Horizontal:
1. Murder Kick
2. Dash Attack
3. Murder Choke
4. Utilt
5. Stutter stepped Fsmash
6. Fsmash
7. Dtilt
8. Jab
9. Dsmash hit 2.
10. Dsmash hit 1
11. Ftilt
12. Quake
13. Running grab
13. Usmash
15. Grab
Useless Autocancels
An autocancel is when you perform an aerial, and upon landing, you get no lag. Ganondorf has autocancel windows on ALL his aerials... Although nair's and fair's are useless.
By performing an aerial RIGHT before you hit the ground, the attack will be cancelled and you will suffer no lag. Easiest to do with the fair: you have to do it so that he will stick out his arm right before landing. Useless, but somewhat funny to see. Also, lagless fair jokes.
Platform Quake
The Quake is when you perform an aerial Murder Kick right after jumping... Step by step if you don't know yet:
1. Up on the control stick.
2. Down + B.
If you do it right, Ganondorf should slam into the ground, leaving lots of lag. This attack? Pretty much useless.
But, on a fall-through platform, you can easily whip this out and suprise an opponent that's coming to get you. All you have to do is down + B... But, with a slight catch. I'm not sure how it works, but I think you need to use down right before pressing B. That way, the 'fall through a platform' animation is triggered, making Ganondorf aerial, thus performing an aerial Murder Kick.
How much more useful is this than the usual Quake? Not a whole lot, but a bit more than the usual, seeing how there's a hitbox on the bottom, so it can possibly hit people through the platform? Vital technique that should be learned by everyone? Nah.
Swoops' Flame Choke to Dash Attack data!
Gerudo>iDA (instant Dash Attack) Data
---------------------
It seems to have the same startup and hit the same people as d-tilt, yet it is more susceptible to DI because the very beginning frames miss usually. I did the whole testing process in a very complicated manner, involving me, two controllers, and scotch tape.
Characters That Are Always Hit
* Captain Falcon
* Charizard
* Diddy Kong
* Fox
* Ice Climbers
* Ike
* Ivysaur
* King Dedede
* Metaknight
* Olimar
* Peach
* Pikachu
* Pit
* ROB
* Sheik
* Sonic
* Toon Link
* Yoshi
* Zelda
* ZS Samus
Characters That Can DI in to Avoid
* Game & Watch
* Jigglypuff
* Kirby
* Lucas
* Luigi
* Mario
* Ness
* Squirtle
* Wario
The One Character That Has to DI Up or Away to Avoid
* Marth
*******s That Only Get Hit on GU Attack
* Bowser
* Donkey Kong
* Falco
* Ganondorf
* Link
* Lucario
* Samus
* Snake
* Wolf
I did the testing a couple times through. Sets up for nice, guaranteed early kills, so this sh*t is **** good. I might test and put out a list of kill %'s for Gerudo>Shoulder before Gerudo lands, but I'm not sure...I might be lazy. It kills most <100%. There's a few like ROB, and DDD that only die after 100%. I know DDD dies at like 120%. Crazy guaranteed kills on MK(FD edit: 85% if saved)
---------------------
Did this like 2 months ago
Diminishing Knockback
Diminishing Knockback, Move Decay... It's not something we Ganon mains often worry about. After all, pretty much every move of ours is a killer. But, what about the move getting weaker? I've had some matches where I felt unable to kill, which might be alleviated to aforementioned problem of moves decaying.
It works like this:
- When you enter a match with a new stock (so at the very beginning and every time you die), all your moves are at Level 10.
- When using a move, it drops one level. The lowest is level 1, of course.
- The 'move decay list' is 9 moves long. When a move is not in this list, but it has been used once in that stock, it's level 9. A move can not be refreshed to level 10 without dying.
So, basically, the more you use a move in a row, the weaker it gets.
First of all: Kill percents for level 10 moves. This is calculated on a level 9 Mario in training mode, without DI.
- Jab: 183%
- Ftilt: 123%
- Dtilt: 136% (130% when sweetspotted)
- Utilt: 42%
- Fsmash: 74%
- Usmash: 105% (85% when sweetspotted)
- Dsmash: 123%
- Dair: 88%
- Dash Attack: 107%
- Fair: 93%
- Uair: 131%
- Bair: 134% (when sweetspotted)
- Nair: 190~
- Warlock Punch: 26%
- Aerial Wizard Kick: 93%
Level 9 kill list so far: (yeah, it's unfinished, move decay is hard to test man) Again, done on Mario without DI.
- Ftilt: 130% (does not decay much)
- Dash Attack: 122% (decays A LOT)
- Dair: 97% (decays A LOT)
As you can see, dair and DA decay heavily. What now? Well, it depends on who you're playing against, and your personal play style. Is the opponent small and/or hard to edgeguard? Save your Dash Attack and dair. Is your opponent big and heavy with a predictable recovery? Use Dash attack and dair if you want to. You can edgeguard with fair/uair for kills!
All depends on your own playstyle... I personally really like using dash attack as an approach and damaging move, but I save it against characters like Metaknight, to get off the easy DA>Shoulder kill at 85%... Think about it.
Remember kids, if you test stuff, ANYTHING, you might just find something gamebreaking for Ganondorf. And we'll have you to thank!
Now go find me a lagless SH fair, slaves!
