The Fairy with Fighting Spirit: Lip for Smash! *Play Panel de Pon on NSO!*

[Iko MattOrr]

There is a theory, someone believes that this vergeben actually works for Nintendo and "leaks" stuff on purpose to control people's expectations and see their reactions (for example, build hype or lower the expectations of the fans on something when they become too high).

I don't know if this is the case, it seems a bit unlikely, but if this is the case, then he would obviously not leak everything and keep something secret for the final surprise.
I mean, if it's Nintendo itself who is leaking on purpose, then they wouldn't want to run out of material to announce, they would only leak a couple of things just to keep the rumoring around the game going.

Anyway I'm not sure about this theory, it seems too much like one of those conspiracy theories people make fun of.

 

[zferolie]

Thing is Retro is always secretive.

While it's true that Ice Climbers were shown off early in Melee. Same did not apply for Game & Watch, which also could be considered Retro.
Brawl = Pit was shown very early, and R.O.B very late as a secret.
Smash 4 = Mega Man? Early, Lil' Mac in the mid, and Duck Hunt shown late/secret.
Ultimate = K. Rool or Simon early? and the most noticable retro is as seen with the others, always late/last?/secretive.

I just really hope it's not Excitebiker or Mach Rider.
I'd take Mike Jones, Donbe & Hikari, Balloon Fighter, Ayumi Tachibana, Prince Sable, a PilotWings char, and of course, the one and only that I really would love; Lip from Panel De Pon. (which interestingly some people don't consider Retro, like whuuuuut?)

Exactly. There is always an ned end of reveals retro in every game since Melee, and I don't see that stopping. We are getting a retro, the question is who.

Lol Donbe and Hikari are my most wanted and been most wanted for YEARS. I think they would be so call and unique. However I am not getting my hopes up too much. Lip seems likely, same with Ayumi, Prince Sable, and Mach Rider. I'll take any one of those... though the Prince hurts Shantae so lets not have him

There is a theory, someone believes that this vergeben actually works for Nintendo and "leaks" stuff on purpose to control people's expectations and see their reactions (for example, build hype or lower the expectations of the fans on something when they become too high).

I don't know if this is the case, it seems a bit unlikely, but if this is the case, then he would obviously not leak everything and keep something secret for the final surprise.
I mean, if it's Nintendo itself who is leaking on purpose, then they wouldn't want to run out of material to announce, they would only leak a couple of things just to keep the rumoring around the game going.

Anyway I'm not sure about this theory, it seems too much like one of those conspiracy theories people make fun of.

Heard that theory, and I could buy it. Companies have done odd marketing stuff. Just look at EA for Dante;'s inferno

 

[MasterRosie]

Thing is Retro is always secretive.

While it's true that Ice Climbers were shown off early in Melee. Same did not apply for Game & Watch, which also could be considered Retro.
Brawl = Pit was shown very early, and R.O.B very late as a secret.
Smash 4 = Mega Man? Early, Lil' Mac in the mid, and Duck Hunt shown late/secret.
Ultimate = K. Rool or Simon early? and the most noticable retro is as seen with the others, always late/last?/secretive.

I just really hope it's not Excitebiker or Mach Rider.
I'd take Mike Jones, Donbe & Hikari, Balloon Fighter, Ayumi Tachibana, Prince Sable, a PilotWings char, and of course, the one and only that I really would love; Lip from Panel De Pon. (which interestingly some people don't consider Retro, like whuuuuut?)

I don’t know if I would consider Little Mac and K Rool retro tho.
K Rool has had multiple appearances, outside the 8 bit era with DK 64, and Little Mac got in Smash 4 because of Punch Out! on the Wii. I would even question Mega Man as a retro pick since he is 3rd party, and at the time, he still had appearances outside of the retro era despite his appearance being based off of his classic look.

 

[N. Onymous]

I've heard that the SNES should not be considered retro because it doesn't have distinctive hardware limitations like the NES does. Which I feel is beans--the SNES very much does have limited hardware, and by now I'd betcha there are more people nostalgic for the 16-bit era of gaming than 8-bit.

Come on, Sakurai. Give us some nostalgia for once, not just what's Recent and Popular. Let it be Lippy!

 

[MasterRosie]

Although the two recent leaks mentioned recently said Mach Rider or Stanley the Bugman, so if we want Lip in, we need to convince ourselves BOTH of these leaks are fake.

 

[zferolie]

I don’t know if I would consider Little Mac and K Rool retro tho.
K Rool has had multiple appearances, outside the 8 bit era with DK 64, and Little Mac got in Smash 4 because of Punch Out! on the Wii. I would even question Mega Man as a retro pick since he is 3rd party, and at the time, he still had appearances outside of the retro era despite his appearance being based off of his classic look.

Even if you discount those, we are still missing a retro for this game. So we should be expecting one. Any "leak" that doesn't have one should be written off right away.

Also, the prima leak should be written off. Not just because of steve and Vaulkt boy(serious vault boy should have turned everyone away even if the prima guide was revealed for preorder the next day by chance), but it lists wii controller instruction guy as an AT... it was obviously a troll but everyone forgets that just because he got the lucky timing of posting it. Its possible he worked at gamestop or a retailer and heard they were going to be taking preorders for the guide tommorow.

Also any leak that has Skullkid is also a fake due to him 100% being a boss. I beleive the Mach rider on lists him as playable right? or was that the prima one and the stalney one has skullkid...

I've heard that the SNES should not be considered retro because it doesn't have distinctive hardware limitations like the NES does. Which I feel is beans--the SNES very much does have limited hardware, and by now I'd betcha there are more people nostalgic for the 16-bit era of gaming than 8-bit.

Come on, Sakurai. Give us some nostalgia for once, not just what's Recent and Popular. Let it be Lippy!

I think at this point in time SNES can be considered retros. it is old enough. NES is more retro but we should consider a retro pick from the SNES as well

 

[MasterRosie]

What does the term ‘retro’ even mean at this point anyway?
I mean, I always thought the retro characters we’ve had was Ice Climbers, Game and Watch, Pit, (at least in Brawl) and Duck Hunt.
In the case of Lip tho, I guess the reason why people claim she wouldn’t be retro is because of the Nintendo Puzzle Collection on the GameCube. But they probably aren’t aware that that’s Furil and not Lip. Imagine if we did get Lip into smash with Furil as an echo tho. So much confusion would be present, lol.

 

[Kirbyfan391]

There is a theory, someone believes that this vergeben actually works for Nintendo and "leaks" stuff on purpose to control people's expectations and see their reactions (for example, build hype or lower the expectations of the fans on something when they become too high).

Vergeben hasn't only leaked Smash stuff though, he's leaked for other games as well, other non-Nintendo games mostly. So that discounts this "theory".

 

[N. Onymous]

Retro means "old but cool," as it always has. Lip's old (her game is, anyway), Lip's cool, ergo Lip is retro.

 

[zferolie]

Vergeben hasn't only leaked Smash stuff though, he's leaked for other games as well, other non-Nintendo games mostly. So that discounts this "theory".

Not really. He also could be hired by other companies to do this, under other names at times too. Like I said, Look at EA's dante inferno

 

[Kirbyfan391]

Not really. He also could be hired by other companies to do this, under other names at times too. Like I said, Look at EA's dante inferno

That's even a further reach. So he's basically known industry wide for this, despite his methods being unidentifiable and it being a well kept secret for this long...

 

[zferolie]

That's even a further reach. So he's basically known industry wide for this, despite his methods being unidentifiable and it being a well kept secret for this long...

Its just a theory, A GAME THEORY*is shot*

But he could always change his user name every year oh so to start fresh. Who knows. I'm not saying its true, but I wouldn't put it past companies to intentionally leak some things to build up hype for a game.

 

[BluePikmin11]

A retro to me is a Nintendo character from the NES, Gameboy, and SNES era from an unrepresented franchise that is considered classic to many. Panel de Pon is one of those retro franchises, whose Super Famicom game is considered a classic in Japan. Sorta like Excitebike, he's more known for the NES games than the installments that came later.

 

[N. Onymous]

There's now a Ken leak out there. It almost looks like a direct model rip that would be easily proven false, except for the hair...

The more evidence that leans in Verge's favor, the more I'm thinking I'd rather spend my money on something else. It's honestly sad what Smash has become, but I guess it was inevitable ever since third-party characters were added to the mix.

 

[zferolie]

There's now a Ken leak out there. It almost looks like a direct model rip that would be easily proven false, except for the hair...

The more evidence that leans in Verge's favor, the more I'm thinking I'd rather spend my money on something else. It's honestly sad what Smash has become, but I guess it was inevitable ever since third-party characters were added to the mix.

Once again, even if its right, Vergaben never once said that was all the characters. You need to relax. There will be more then just Ken and Incineroar. We will get a retro, and that retro may be Lip.

 

[N. Onymous]

Once again, even if its right, Vergaben never once said that was all the characters. You need to relax. There will be more then just Ken and Incineroar. We will get a retro, and that retro may be Lip.

When you've got "I hope you're not expecting too many newcomers" on one hand, and all evidence leaning in favor of Vergeben being right and Steve being a playable character over any number of more deserving Nintendo characters (and not just Lip) on the other, it's hard to be hopeful.

 

[Jyl]

When you've got "I hope you're not expecting too many newcomers" on one hand, and all evidence leaning in favor of Vergeben being right and Steve being a playable character over any number of more deserving Nintendo characters (and not just Lip) on the other, it's hard to be hopeful.

Even if it somehow ends up being true and Lip isn't in the game, don't count DLC out. There's still hope

 

[zferolie]

When you've got "I hope you're not expecting too many newcomers" on one hand, and all evidence leaning in favor of Vergeben being right and Steve being a playable character over any number of more deserving Nintendo characters (and not just Lip) on the other, it's hard to be hopeful.

I'm taking that as a grain of salt. Since he said that we got, what, 7 newcomers? thats more then one would expect with that phrase. People say Sakurai trolls too, and that seems like a troll thing to say so he can surprise us with a more then we thought

 

[N. Onymous]

I hate to say it guys, but I think I'm done with Smash Ultimate speculation. Everything I know about the most likely upcoming newcomers disgusts me. No retro characters, no Japan-only characters, just Incineroar, another echo fighter (at least one that makes sense), and probably Steve from Overratedpieceof****craft. That's it.

Smash is a corporate product now. The days of the Ice Climbers and Marth are long gone. The modern Smash is afraid of giving us anyone except big names, and failing that, characters from series with big names, because they need to be able to provide amiibo of recognizable characters that people would want to buy. Lip never had a chance in SSB4, she never had a chance this time, and she won't have a chance next tme. Being straight with you, the only way Lip will ever have a shot is if Panel de Pon experiences a successful, large-scale revival...and we all know how receptive Fire Emblem Systems is to that idea.

 

[Jyl]

I hate to say it guys, but I think I'm done with Smash Ultimate speculation. Everything I know about the most likely upcoming newcomers disgusts me. No retro characters, no Japan-only characters, just Incineroar, another echo fighter (at least one that makes sense), and probably Steve from Overratedpieceof****craft. That's it.

Smash is a corporate product now. The days of the Ice Climbers and Marth are long gone. The modern Smash is afraid of giving us anyone except big names, and failing that, characters from series with big names, because they need to be able to provide amiibo of recognizable characters that people would want to buy. Lip never had a chance in SSB4, she never had a chance this time, and she won't have a chance next tme. Being straight with you, the only way Lip will ever have a shot is if Panel de Pon experiences a successful, large-scale revival...and we all know how receptive Fire Emblem Systems is to that idea.

Come on now your being way too pessimistic. I understand your frustration because I also don't agree with the direction Smash 4 took with their newcomer but you shouldn't act like this, not as the creator of this thread.
I mean I just joined so I may not be qualified to say this but you shouldn't jump to conclusions this easily when the game is 3 months away, and we haven't even gotten to the inevitable DLC.
If Lip is in, great.
If not, there's always DLC. You should keep fighting and show support until the end, if you do they will notice our support one of these days.

 

[NukeA6]

So I guess Vergeben is 100% correct then. Abandon all hope; Lip is disconfirmed and will never ever be playable.

Spoiler

It's ironic the guy with the edgiest name, sig, and possibly personality here has more hope for an obscure magical girl character than someone who's a complete fan of her and her series and has been supporting much more.

 

[MasterRosie]

I hate to say it guys, but I think I'm done with Smash Ultimate speculation. Everything I know about the most likely upcoming newcomers disgusts me. No retro characters, no Japan-only characters, just Incineroar, another echo fighter (at least one that makes sense), and probably Steve from Overratedpieceof****craft. That's it.

Smash is a corporate product now. The days of the Ice Climbers and Marth are long gone. The modern Smash is afraid of giving us anyone except big names, and failing that, characters from series with big names, because they need to be able to provide amiibo of recognizable characters that people would want to buy. Lip never had a chance in SSB4, she never had a chance this time, and she won't have a chance next tme. Being straight with you, the only way Lip will ever have a shot is if Panel de Pon experiences a successful, large-scale revival...and we all know how receptive Fire Emblem Systems is to that idea.

Oh come on, don’t act like that.
For the longest amount of time, fans were losing all hope for him ever being playable, and all he would ever amount to is just a boss character. And now look at the timeline we are in.
Giving up and abandoning all hope is just what companies would want you to do, just so they have all the more reason to neglect said franchise. You’re the one that started this thread, man.
Tbh, if the Waluigi fans are still standing up with the #JusticeforWaluigi stuff, then we should stand up for Lip.

 

[N. Onymous]

#JusticeForLip. There's an idea... let's get on that.

Come on now your being way too pessimistic. I understand your frustration because I also don't agree with the direction Smash 4 took with their newcomer but you shouldn't act like this, not as the creator of this thread.
I mean I just joined so I may not be qualified to say this but you shouldn't jump to conclusions this easily when the game is 3 months away, and we haven't even gotten to the inevitable DLC.
If Lip is in, great.
If not, there's always DLC. You should keep fighting and show support until the end, if you do they will notice our support one of these days.

I said I'm done with speculation, not with supporting Lip. I'm never going to stop fighting for her until she's finally given her dues. Because unless I fight, this is just going to be the status quo for as long as Nintendo exists as a company. The last thing I'd want is for them to let the Panel de Pon trademark lapse, like they did with Custom Robo. But this period of Smash speculation has been very draining on me, and with one of my least-wanted characters all but confirmed and my absolute most wanted basically deconfirmed at this point, it's taking a heavy toll.

 

[Jyl]

#JusticeForLip. There's an idea... let's get on that.



I said I'm done with speculation, not with supporting Lip. I'm never going to stop fighting for her until she's finally given her dues. But this period of Smash speculation has been very draining on me, and with one of my least-wanted characters all but confirmed and my absolute most wanted basically deconfirmed at this point, it's taking a heavy toll.

Oh, your tone in your post sounded like otherwise to me.
Maybe you should take a break from Smash stuff, avoid all Smash related sites or something for like a week. Do some other things you enjoy.

 

[N. Onymous]

Oh, your tone in your post sounded like otherwise to me.
Maybe you should take a break from Smash stuff, avoid all Smash related sites or something for like a week. Do some other things you enjoy.

It's what I'm trying to do. I want to limit my Smash intake so I don't hear about the series anymore. It's honestly disgusting and legitimately disheartening the direction it's taking.

 

[MasterRosie]

This Ken leak isn’t convincing enough for me to prove vergeben right.
I mean, of course he would choose to show off Ken, the character EVERYONE would think would be in the game since the conception of echoes were revealed. This doesn’t make Vergeben special. Until I see someone like Vault Boy, Steve, or Mach Rider leaked, I still don’t buy it.
(I apologize to N. Anymous for this after he said he was done with speculation, I just wanted to get my thoughts on this out there.)

 

[zferolie]

For the Ken leak, they showed the full screenshot, and all the character icons are cut off around the boarder, however, in the August 8th direct, tall the character boarders are not cut off, like below.

So this may be fake. even if it isn't this doesn't hurt lip at all. Ken was a very likely choice for awhile.

Why the leaker didn't use someone else more surprising is beyond me...

 

[N. Onymous]

I don't want to prevent anyone from trying to speculate in this thread. I know some people like that and I wouldn't take that away from them. I just feel like I should at least take a break from it before I pop a gasket.

 

[zferolie]

I don't want to prevent anyone from trying to speculate in this thread. I know some people like that and I wouldn't take that away from them. I just feel like I should at least take a break from it before I pop a gasket.

probably for the best

Also, if someones was gonna actually leak something, at least leak something surprising, like Geno or Lip or even incineroar. Ken is like the most boring leak out there

 

[MasterRosie]

probably for the best

Also, if someones was gonna actually leak something, at least leak something surprising, like Geno or Lip or even incineroar. Ken is like the most boring leak out there

Eh, I don’t even think Geno or Incineroar would affect that much. They are easy guesses at this point due to how much the fans and Sakurai want Geno in, and Incineroar? Pretty much just the greninja case of ultimate since the ballot ended before we even knew what the final Alola starter evolutions would be.

 

[zferolie]

Eh, I don’t even think Geno or Incineroar would affect that much. They are easy guesses at this point due to how much the fans and Sakurai want Geno in, and Incineroar? Pretty much just the greninja case of ultimate since the ballot ended before we even knew what the final Alola starter evolutions would be.

Its more like Geno has never had an offical 3d model, and Incineroar would need a new 3d model for this game. Ken has had a ton so theres nothing wow about seeing him in 3d.

 

[MasterRosie]

Its more like Geno has never had an offical 3d model, and Incineroar would need a new 3d model for this game. Ken has had a ton so theres nothing wow about seeing him in 3d.

Well, yeah, but what I mean is that even with Geno or Incineroar in, that still isn’t convincing enough to make Vergeben to be 100% real. He would have to show off Vault Boy, Steve, or Mach Rider as the leak says.
(Can someone explain to me how the hell Vault Boy would even work?)

 

[zferolie]

Well, yeah, but what I mean is that even with Geno or Incineroar in, that still isn’t convincing enough to make Vergeben to be 100% real. He would have to show off Vault Boy, Steve, or Mach Rider as the leak says.
(Can someone explain to me how the hell Vault Boy would even work?)

The Prima leak is fake. no point even discussing it. it didn't have inklings mention, it had vault boy, it forgot the starman AT, and it had wii saftey man as an AT. that just screams fake.

But yeah, if you have the game, and want to take a screenshot, anyone would have been a better one then ken

 

[SchAlternate]

Yeah, about that leak, it's most likely fake.

I mean, not that it disconfirms Ken whatsoever. Ken is like the most obvious Echo character they could put in at this point, followed by Shadow.

 

[zferolie]

Yeah, about that leak, it's most likely fake.

I mean, not that it disconfirms Ken whatsoever. Ken is like the most obvious Echo character they could put in at this point, followed by Shadow.

Yeah fake, moving on,

And yeah everyone is expecting ken. right now we'll be more shocked if he isn't in(give me the surprise Akuma instead as an echo)

 

[N. Onymous]

Forget Akuma, where's Chun Li? Heck, where's Guile?

 

[Flyboy]

Sakura and Dan or bust

 

[zferolie]

Forget Akuma, where's Chun Li? Heck, where's Guile?

They wouldn't work as echos. We don't know this to be true, but it feels like third parties are allowed more characters of their own, but need to be a different franchise, but echos from that franchise are ok.

Chun Li and Guile would have to be unique fighters.

Sakura and Dan or bust

God I would have loved a Echo Sakura or Dan. It would have been amazing

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

They wouldn't work as echos. We don't know this to be true, but it feels like third parties are allowed more characters of their own, but need to be a different franchise, but echos from that franchise are ok.

That feels like another fan rule. Who's to say they won't add uniques from the same third-party when it would severely limit Sakurai's options otherwise?

I mean, imagine that we get Erdrick from DQ, but they can't add anyone from the supporting casts like Slime, the DQ4 ladies or whomever, just the other heroes as Echoes or alts of him. That would be very inconvenient.

 

[zferolie]

That feels like another fan rule. Who's to say they won't add uniques from the same third-party when it would severely limit Sakurai's options otherwise?

I mean, imagine that we get Erdrick from DQ, but they can't add anyone from the supporting casts like Slime, the DQ4 ladies or whomever, just the other heroes as Echoes or alts of him. That would be very inconvenient.

Like I said, we don't know this to be true. Something could come and change it for sure. I would be happy for CHun li.

Right now we only can say what we can see.