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The Fairy with Fighting Spirit: Lip for Smash! *Play Panel de Pon on NSO!*

MasterRosie

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Well, Love him or hate him, technically he hasn't been wrong about smash ultimate yet.
That still doesn’t mean a thing to me.
This is just Smash 4’s Gematsu all over again.
It’s only a matter of time until Sakurai reveals something that kills his credibility.
(Have it be Lip or not)

*Next direct Sakurai announces Shadow as his own character with something crazy and unexpected like Metal Sonic as an echo.*
 
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zferolie

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N.Oynymous (how do I do @'s on this site?) Just remember, neither of those leakers are saying they know the full roster. At all. Plus, if the steve thing is right, then the box theory is completely dead(hated that theory) and we should be getting a bunch more still. Incineroar, Steve, and Geno would not be the only ones I feel. 84 should be the final roster of selectable, with 12 more fighters to go, 6 echo and 6 newcomer. Newcomers with those I feel would be theif se, followed by these 6 echos

Incineroar
Geno
Lip or another retro
Isaac
Shantae
Steve

Shadow
Impa
Dixie kong
Ken
Medusa
Black Shadow or Ms Pac Man.

Also, perhaps steve is the reason Sakurai is looking at a ton of fan requested characters, to balance out that pick K Rool, Ridley. Geno, AND Geno would make people forget about Steve
 

KingofUSA85

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That still doesn’t mean a thing to me.
This is just Smash 4’s Gematsu all over again.
It’s only a matter of time until Sakurai reveals something that kills his credibility.
(Have it be Lip or not)

*Next direct Sakurai announces Shadow as his own character with something crazy and unexpected like Metal Sonic as an echo.*
But that wouldn't kill his credibility seeing as he never said those characters were not getting in.
 

11th

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Playing devil's advocate, it's entirely possible he doesn't know just how controversial an addition Steve would be. If this leaker is telling the truth, then Isaac will not be playable despite how huge and devoted his support group is. Never discount the fact that he's out of touch with anyone who doesn't have Ridley, K. Rool, or yes, even Waluigi-sized fanbases.
Daisy, Chrom, Dark Samus...? Sure, they're Echoes, but they still count for something.

Chrom and Dark Samus were explicitly stated to be in due to requests. Both definitely did not have fanbases anywhere near the size of Ridley or K. Rool, especially after being deconfirmed in Smash for, and there's no reason to add either purely for marketing at the moment. (Chrom isn't going to appear in the next Fire Emblem games outside of cameos, and while Prime 4 is supposedly on the way, we still know absolutely nothing about it.) You could argue that Daisy was chosen to help advertise the Mario spinoffs, but I feel as though that's a stretch... She was announced by herself to showcase the new Echo classification, not alongside Super Mario Party, which also debuted at E3, and she's not even very well known among casuals in the same way that Isabelle or any Pokémon would be.

You have to remember that the team working on the game has a budget, a certain number of people on staff, and a tight deadline. They're going to try their best to please as many people as possible (including the higher ups at Nintendo and any other companies that may be asking for things), but there's only so much that they can do. The only reason we might have half of what we do so far is because Mr. Sakurai is well respected for his work on the series and can get away with pushing back on some requests. The whole Corrin situation proved that even he can't completely escape the executive push, though.

We have no clue what would happen with a new director. They might fold under the pressure to please everyone and not filter out any requests or stop paying attention to details and accuracy, or they might just say "Screw it", and stop listening to fans. Smash isn't an easy game to make. With Mr. Sakurai we at least know that he has a clear idea of what he wants the game to be, a respect for the characters and their history, and generally understands what is and is not going to be tolerated by the fans (and companies) without letting them walk all over him.


As far as I'm concerned, Lip and Steve are in completely different situations. No, I'm not particularly fond of the idea of him making the cut, as I'm not a fan of Microsoft, Minecraft, or Steve, and I'm not a fan of more third-parties getting in before some of the remaining first/second-parties. But I can't pretend that Steve has a direct impact on Lip or the reasons why she may or may not make the cut, or that Sakurai is some horrible, awful person for maybe choosing one but not the other.

I need to stop posting essays, goodness. I haven't even posted half of the ones I've typed.
 
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NukeA6

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Easy stuff? I was at the forefront on the Ridley fanbase, and when Sakurai said, "Ridley is too big. We cannot resize him without making the character losing his identity," it made me realize Ridley would probably never happen in a Smash Bros. game (or at least as long as Sakurai was at the helm). Most speculators believed the same. Hardly anyone talked about playable Castlevania representation in Smash Bros. (these same people believed Rayman, Shovel Knight, and Shantae were all more likely to happen than someone from Castlevania). Most of the community also slept on the likes of Isabelle.

Also, Vergeben never said there would not be a DK newcomer. What happened was that Vergeben (in a personal message to that loz) said someone told him that someone sent a message to him saying there would be no DK newcomer, and Vergeben told loz that it did not sound right and did not believe it. Loz, being very immature (which became more prominent in his behavior throughout August and September), leaked this message. Vergeben also did not say anything about Zero being playable either.

A lot of stuff that gets attributed to Vergeben is not Vergeben (4chan loves to make fake leaks). I always check his post history on GameFAQs to see what he has actually stated.
That's your own fault for believing Sakurai's too big comment especially when he was only slightly bigger than Samus in Melee's intro. It's not like Pikachu lost identity for being almost Mario's size.

Just because nobody talked about Castlevania doesn't mean nobody requested him. It was also the biggest classic third party franchise not involved with the Smash Bros. Hell, I predicted Simon would be in the last Smash Direct so I must be a legit leaker too.

As for no DK characters, it was leaked from his convos with loz18 and he backpedaled by saying he didn't believe it. Really, Vergeben is a total fraud and you're being naive for thinking he means anything. He wishes he was lupinko or Ryce and I'm guaranteed his sources are just what he calls the pink elephants in his head.
 
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ChronoBound

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That's your own fault for believing Sakurai's too big comment especially when he was only slightly bigger than Samus in Melee's intro. It's not like Pikachu lost identity for being almost Mario's size..
I never believed Ridley was too big. It was Sakurai believing that Ridley was too big that made me think that he might never happen.

Just because nobody talked about Castlevania doesn't mean nobody requested him. It was also the biggest classic third party franchise not involved with the Smash Bros. Hell, I predicted Simon would be in the last Smash Direct so I must be a legit leaker too.
Barely anyone talking about Castlevania is more reason to believe he had an inside source.

As for no DK characters, it was leaked from his convos with loz18 and he backpedaled by saying he didn't believe it. Really, Vergeben is a total fraud and you're being naive for thinking he means anything. He wishes he was lupinko or Ryce and I'm guaranteed his sources are just what he calls the pink elephants in his head.
He said he did not believe it before the 8/8 direct dropped. Ironically, the one that told him about no DK characters was lupinko, whom you praise in your post.

Really, Vergeben is a total fraud and you're being naive for thinking he means anything.
I have been with the speculation community for over 17 years. Vergeben's stuff on Smash is solid.

Trust me, if you set your expectations that Incineroar and Ken are all that is left, you will end up being pleasantly surprised by any bonuses. That is my attitude.
 

FunAtParties

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Steve is an overrated, trash tier choice, but he has nothing to do with Lip.
 

MasterRosie

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Guys, this same leak said VAULT BOY.

R.I.P
Dang, that’s one letter away from Lip.
Hope that these two words won’t be associated with each other after Ultimate’s release. :sadeyes:
 
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NukeA6

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Trust me, if you set your expectations that Incineroar and Ken are all that is left, you will end up being pleasantly surprised by any bonuses. That is my attitude.
I already have the lowest expectations possible and wouldn't even care if Incineroar and Ken were the last ones. I even thought 8/8 was gonna show the last of the roster and it would have been satisfying enough. That doesn't change the fact that Vergeben is just a fake leaker who can't make up his mind what's in the game or not. His credibility is gonna crash and burn so hard that it's gonna be a long-running meme in the Smash community.
 
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ChronoBound

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I already have the lowest expectations possible and wouldn't even care if Incineroar and Ken were the last ones. I even thought 8/8 was gonna show the last of the roster and it would have been satisfying enough. That doesn't change the fact that Vergeben is just a fake leaker who can't make up his mind what's in the game or not. His credibility is gonna crash and burn so hard that it's gonna be a long-running meme in the Smash community.
So if all we get is Incineroar and Ken for the remainder of the base roster, what will you say about Vergeben then? Its seems like you a pathological disdain of the guy.
 

NukeA6

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So if all we get is Incineroar and Ken for the remainder of the base roster, what will you say about Vergeben then? Its seems like you a pathological disdain of the guy.
I don't believe we're gonna get both of them as playable characters so that's moot. While I'm at it, I predict both Geno and Hilda (echo of Zelda) will be playable so we're gonna see who's more right in the end.
 

FunAtParties

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I don't believe we're gonna get both of them as playable characters so that's moot. While I'm at it, I predict both Geno and Hilda (echo of Zelda) will be playable so we're gonna see who's more right in the end.
I guess we will, but didn't he mention an SE newcomer as well?
 
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ChronoBound

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I don't believe we're gonna get both of them as playable characters so that's moot. While I'm at it, I predict both Geno and Hilda (echo of Zelda) will be playable so we're gonna see who's more right in the end.
I hate to break it to you, but Vergeben has said one of his most trusted sources said we are getting a second Square-Enix character (although he said he does not know who it is). I personally think Geno is going to be DLC.
 

FunAtParties

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Guys, this same leak said VAULT BOY.

R.I.P
Dang, that’s one letter away from Lip.
Hope that these two words won’t be associated with each other after Ultimate’s release. :sadeyes:
Didn't Verge say the one leaker that added Vault Boy has a similar source? I'm not willing to write anything off anymore.
 

NukeA6

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That was from before I started following him. He is a lot more cautious now than he was six months ago.

The source that is claiming there will be a second Square-Enix character is the same one that knew about Ridley and Simon Belmont.
In other words, the safe prediction "source" who can't even name the character.

Might as well believe the NeoGAF leak, there were better things right
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76779532
 
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ChronoBound

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Didn't Verge say the one leaker that added Vault Boy has a similar source? I'm not willing to write anything off anymore.
Its important to realize Vergeben has "multiple sources". The only two characters that all of his sources say are in the game are Incineroar and Ken.

Take anything else with a grain of salt. The game is releasing in less than 2.5 months anyway.
 

MasterRosie

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Didn't Verge say the one leaker that added Vault Boy has a similar source? I'm not willing to write anything off anymore.
Heavily doubt Vault Boy and Steve.
Not when we still have characters in Ultimate who are yet to be addressed like Lip.
“Everyone Is Here” should apply to her too, but based on all of these leaks, none of them label her as a character or an assist trophy, meaning she would STILL be missing, kinda derailing from the point of the game. Sakurai would NOT even think of adding them before giving characters who have been around longer the proper treatment they deserve. This is why I think it’s hokey.
 

GoodGrief741

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Well, since that post names Sonic, Bayonetta, Snake, Cloud, and Mega Man but no Pac-Man, Simon, Richter, Ryu (or Ken for that matter), we can consider that source debunked. Strange that he never went back and called it for what it was. Also notable is that it contradicts Vergeben’s vehement confidence in Simon.

You could make the argument that omission does not equal disconfirmation, but at the very least the fact that the source leaked all the ones it leaked but missed all the ones it missed is suspect.

Or maybe I just want Vergeben to be proven false so hard.
 

FunAtParties

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Its important to realize Vergeben has "multiple sources". The only two characters that all of his sources say are in the game are Incineroar and Ken.

Take anything else with a grain of salt. The game is releasing in less than 2.5 months anyway.
So what's your opinion on the Steve stuff, I missed a lot.
 

ChronoBound

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So what's your opinion on the Steve stuff, I missed a lot.
I only expect Incineroar and Ken for the base roster. I think we will get some Minecraft content in Ultimate in either the base game or as DLC, but I doubt Steve. I think we will eventually get Banjo-Kazooie as DLC and Microsoft will likely want Minecraft content in as well as part of the deal. The Minecraft stuff will be stuff like a stage and an Assist Trophy (likely the Creeper).
 

FunAtParties

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I only expect Incineroar and Ken for the base roster. I think we will get some Minecraft content in Ultimate in either the base game or as DLC, but I doubt Steve. I think we will eventually get Banjo-Kazooie as DLC and Microsoft will likely want Minecraft content in as well as part of the deal. The Minecraft stuff will be stuff like a stage and an Assist Trophy (likely the Creeper).
This I could live with
 

Jyl

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Shouldn't all this leaking by him catch Nintendo's attention or something? I'm pretty sure leaking stuff like this is not legal.
 

N. Onymous

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As far as I know Verge is not working directly with Nintendo and he's just reporting hearsay, so technically he's not breaking any laws.

...why can't any of these leaks have Lip on them? Every single one is nothing but characters I am at best indifferent to and actively do not want in the game at worst.
 

Iko MattOrr

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Even if she's not in the base game there's always hope for DLC, I doubt this game won't have at least as many DLCs as Smash 4.
I know that a character from an obscure Japan-only game is not that easy to sell as a DLC, but maybe, who knows, they will make her a free DLC, or put her into a character pack, or stuff.
She still has some support, maybe not on the levels of Ridley or K Rool, but still. Everything can happen, and by the way those leaks may turn out to be fake at some point, who knows.
 
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KirbyWorshipper2465

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As far as I know Verge is not working directly with Nintendo and he's just reporting hearsay, so technically he's not breaking any laws.

...why can't any of these leaks have Lip on them? Every single one is nothing but characters I am at best indifferent to and actively do not want in the game at worst.
That`s because they stick with "popular" choices. Lo and behold, we ended up with Richter, even though barely anyone thought he'd get in.
 

Jyl

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...why can't any of these leaks have Lip on them? Every single one is nothing but characters I am at best indifferent to and actively do not want in the game at worst.
Wasn't there one (obvious fake) leak posted here that had Lip?
I usually hate leaks but that's the one time I almost hoped it had any credibility.
 

N. Onymous

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Wasn't there one (obvious fake) leak posted here that had Lip?
I usually hate leaks but that's the one time I almost hoped it had any credibility.
You're probably thinking of the one that pretended to be Vergeben. I've never wanted a leak to be real more in my life.
 

Crap-Zapper

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This is the third time I've been dreaming about Lip since the Ultimate reveal.

Better hope the dreams are more visions than just dreams!
 

N. Onymous

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Well you can't just say that and not tell us about it. What was it like?
 

Crap-Zapper

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Well you can't just say that and not tell us about it. What was it like?
I don't remember too much about it, as when I wake up, some of it goes blurry if I don't focus from the start.
This as said was the third time she appeared in a dream. First time she was not just "gameplay" but actually appearing lol (dreams, right?)
Started with her reveal in a trailer, when she appeared, she used the stick to jump out of the game, and then she just talked about how awesome it was that she got into the game, and couldn't wait for people to play her. That's the most consistent I could give out of the dream.
 

Jyl

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You're probably thinking of the one that pretended to be Vergeben. I've never wanted a leak to be real more in my life.
Yeah that's the one. Same here I wish it was real.
That`s because they stick with "popular" choices. Lo and behold, we ended up with Richter, even though barely anyone thought he'd get in.
That's the thing; if this virginbeen just revealed them all including Ritcher and Daisy I would have KIND of believed him, but not so still has me skeptical of him.
 

zferolie

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As far as I know Verge is not working directly with Nintendo and he's just reporting hearsay, so technically he's not breaking any laws.

...why can't any of these leaks have Lip on them? Every single one is nothing but characters I am at best indifferent to and actively do not want in the game at worst.
Well Most fake leaks tend to forget retro picks always happen, and just go for the safe popular picks. Those leaks I feel are easily the fakest, as there is no off the wall odd choice in there.

Second, its possible most of these sources are only going to hear the names of the big ones, like simon or K rool or ridley and the like. names like Lip they may not even reconize or pay much attention too.

third, Sakurai could be giving extra secrecy to a few ones, like the retro , my hope of shantae, and Isaac.

forth, Echos don't seem to reach vergebens ears either. the only echo he has heard about at all is ken, and thats still not revealed. No Daisy, No richter, no chrom, no dark samus. so we can assume that there are a bunch of other echos that are just not getting reported on. Lips not an echo, but that could be tied to a retro just not being talked about much to these sources.
 

Crap-Zapper

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Thing is Retro is always secretive.

While it's true that Ice Climbers were shown off early in Melee. Same did not apply for Game & Watch, which also could be considered Retro.
Brawl = Pit was shown very early, and R.O.B very late as a secret.
Smash 4 = Mega Man? Early, Lil' Mac in the mid, and Duck Hunt shown late/secret.
Ultimate = K. Rool or Simon early? and the most noticable retro is as seen with the others, always late/last?/secretive.

I just really hope it's not Excitebiker or Mach Rider.
I'd take Mike Jones, Donbe & Hikari, Balloon Fighter, Ayumi Tachibana, Prince Sable, a PilotWings char, and of course, the one and only that I really would love; Lip from Panel De Pon. (which interestingly some people don't consider Retro, like whuuuuut?)
 

Jyl

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Thing is Retro is always secretive.

While it's true that Ice Climbers were shown off early in Melee. Same did not apply for Game & Watch, which also could be considered Retro.
Brawl = Pit was shown very early, and R.O.B very late as a secret.
Smash 4 = Mega Man? Early, Lil' Mac in the mid, and Duck Hunt shown late/secret.
Ultimate = K. Rool or Simon early? and the most noticable retro is as seen with the others, always late/last?/secretive.

I just really hope it's not Excitebiker or Mach Rider.
I'd take Mike Jones, Donbe & Hikari, Balloon Fighter, Ayumi Tachibana, Prince Sable, a PilotWings char, and of course, the one and only that I really would love; Lip from Panel De Pon. (which interestingly some people don't consider Retro, like whuuuuut?)
It's probably because when people think retro, they limit themselves to NES only, which Ice Climbers, Pit, and Duck Hunt were.
It's a dumb argument though, SNES should be considered retro too.
 
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